A few beefs I have with GTA3

[Cheatah]

As of now I have completed GTA Vice City and GTA San Andreas 100% and working in chronological order based on when the time the games were set in. So I'm chipping away at GTA 3 now, trying to get 100% my first time through. All on PS2.

 

In order to do that I've been advised (and I see the advantage) to doing some of the Special/Side Missions early on before I really get into many of the Main Missions.

 

However, in doing so I kind of have come up with a few beefs about this game, that I otherwise enjoy.

 

I would love to get into the main missions and some of the side missions are cool and makes sense based on what this game is like. But some things there is to do I find really tedious, don't make sense, and otherwise not fun for certain reasons which I will explain below.

 

First on the list is:

 

Paramedic Missions: Okay, this is A.) Not fun. and B.) Doesn't make any sense for a ruthless thug to be hopping in a Ambulance driving around town SAVING random people's lives all IN GOOD TIME!?! I know the benefits are great, Infinite Sprint, Adrenilne Pills and Health Pills at the hideout but I would like to have seen a different way of getting these.

 

Firefighter Missions: Again, why is a ruthless thug saving people from burning, also IN GOOD TIME? Doesn't make sense to me. I understand that people may find this challenging by having to extinguish fires within a certain time but I don't think it makes sense nor is fun for this game.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all a downer for any missions that are timed. I mean I actually DO find Vigilante and Taxi missions fun BUT they also make more sense.

 

Hidden Packages: SOO Many packages ALL so spread out and so tedious and BORING to find. It basically rewards gamers who have a lot of time to waste (lucky for you!) roaming the city and hopefully getting lucky by finding some hidden packages on the way. Otherwise it basically turns into printing off a map that marks the location of the hidden packages and then just systematically driving to the locations picking them up, check marking the paper, and moving on. OHHH how fun. not.

 

LACK of Pause Menu Map: Really makes certain things even harder. At least in VC and SA when I was tediously going through with a map in hand of the Hidden Packages and locations of the Rampages I could more easily pin point where I needed to go by looking at the big map in-game before setting off. And even much better in SA with the Pinpoint marker.

 

This brings me to another small beef because of the lack of in-game full map. Rampages. Allthough definitly fun, fast, and furious action is cool. To get all of them done in all of the places most likely have to turn to a printed off map and then it will take some time finding where exactly to go.

 

Anyways, that's my lil' 'beefs' list.

I guess it may affect me a bit more than others becuase I want to get things done right the first time around so I get 100% my first time through. And I really want to get to the real fun which is the Main Missions but I should really do lots of the side stuff first... which unfortunatley some is feeling more like HOMEWORK than gaming.

 

Comments, suggestions are welcome, thanks.

Edited February 6, 2006 by Cheatah

[Demarest]

First of all, I wanted to let you know that I acknowledge the time it would take for you to type all that out. We could use more thought provoking threads like this.

 

I think the first hole in your logic is that you're looking for it to make sense. It's a video game. Adhering too much to sense would not be fun. What if when you died, the screen went black, your game was erased, the disc ruined, and your motherboard imprinted with code that the game could never be played? Fairly realistic. No fun whatsoever.

 

Hidden packages were in GTA2. I don't know if they did anything, but I assumed not. So when I first saw one in GTA3, I passed it by. When I later found out there was a benefit, I was kicking myself for not grabbing them.

 

Then considering that you're essentially immersed in a new world. Part of the fun of GTA is that you don't have to DO anything specific. Just run around. Run people over. Punch them and run away. Whatever suits you. It's pretty detailed world too. One that might make you want to explore. My first mod ever was Waldorf. It was GTA3 stripped of EVERY task except the hidden packages. Except the packages were redistributed and the rewards were different. It was far more popular than I anticipated. Which is interesting when you consider that such a mod only appeals to those interested in exploring. It's ONE facet of GTA's enjoyability and the packages encourage that. Besides, if you've played SA, you have NO business complaining about GTA3's package system

 

Finally, the map/radar. Two things to consider. For one, GTA3 is the smallest of them all. Secondly, GTA3 is the most challenging of them. Part of that comes from not having a map to hold your hand. I know the islands of GTA3 and its landmarks like the back of my hand. Not unlike I do the streets in my own town. Why? I've traveled them many times. VC included a pause map because it was bigger. Just like SA incorporated a user-definable radar point because it was bigger still. VC also was the first to have radar blips that pointed to indicate altitude. Which is ironic because it was FAR flatter than GTA3. Again, adds to the challenge and I like that.

 

Don't get me wrong, when I'm playing VC, I'm glad Paramedic is easier and I'm glad part of that is being able to cheat by peeking at a map.

[KrustyBurger]

You completed 100% of Gta Vice AND GTA San An, and your complaining about GTA3? dude im sorry but GTA3 is the easiest (and most fun) out of all of them. Paramedic, Firefighter, hidden packages, those are all in the other games aswell, and harder to find and do in the other games i might add. And the map, just print out a copy from the interenet.

[Runestoner]

I have a reason a ruthless thug will save people from burning and dying...look below.

 

 

 

 

[Pyrrhus]

I don't really see the point in complaining about the Paramedic and Firefighter missions in GTAIII when the same had to be done by both Tommy Vercetti and Carl "CJ" Johnson if you were going for 100% in GTAVC and GTASA respectively.

 

And as Demarest mentioned the package hunting was alot worse in GTASA. There were 200 items to find as opposed to GTAIII and GTAVC's 100.

[Demarest]

And as Demarest mentioned the package hunting was alot worse in GTASA. There were 200 items to find as opposed to GTAIII and GTAVC's 100.

*250 And 50 of them were invisible.

[Pyrrhus]

And as Demarest mentioned the package hunting was alot worse in GTASA. There were 200 items to find as opposed to GTAIII and GTAVC's 100.

*250 And 50 of them were invisible.

My bad, I forgot about those damn oysters.

[Cheatah]

Thanks for the comments and such, good points made by all.

 

Although I have a few counter-points now.

 

@ Demarest

 

I think the first hole in your logic is that you're looking for it to make sense. It's a video game. Adhering too much to sense would not be fun. What if when you died, the screen went black, your game was erased, the disc ruined, and your motherboard imprinted with code that the game could never be played? Fairly realistic. No fun whatsoever.

 

A tad over exaggerated don't you think? I mean, obviously any video game if it was 100% realistic probably would not be very fun. But there are certain aspects of certain games that people find out of place or unrealistic for the tone and style of the game. I hear in True Crimes there was a mission where the Cop character had to fight some Zombies. Many people felt that was very out of place and part of the reason the game, as a whole wasn't so great.

 

But for me it's not just that Firefighter or Paramedic missions are a bit out of place for the character but they aren't really that fun. Many many people complain about the difficulty of the Paramedic missions and sometimes Firefighter missions and I wouldn't imagine tooo many people would be that upset if those missions were not in the next GTA and replaced by more fun stuff.

 

 

Finally, the map/radar. Two things to consider. For one, GTA3 is the smallest of them all. Secondly, GTA3 is the most challenging of them. Part of that comes from not having a map to hold your hand. I know the islands of GTA3 and its landmarks like the back of my hand. Not unlike I do the streets in my own town. Why? I've traveled them many times. VC included a pause map because it was bigger. Just like SA incorporated a user-definable radar point because it was bigger still. VC also was the first to have radar blips that pointed to indicate altitude. Which is ironic because it was FAR flatter than GTA3. Again, adds to the challenge and I like that.

 

You know what I know exactly what you mean, but for a different situation. GTA Vice City was my first of the GTAs and I learnt that city very well and knew it like the back of my hand as well I could virtually drive through that place with my eyes closed remembering the main landmarks. Yes, VC has the in-game map which helped but certainly from exploring I got to know it. Which is just the reason for wishing GTA 3 had a in-game map. Not that I can't or won't learn Liberty City very well eventually I wouldn't be nice, especially at this early stage to have a in-game map. (Would help for getting faster to certain important places)

 

@ Liberty-City

 

You completed 100% of Gta Vice AND GTA San An, and your complaining about GTA3? dude im sorry but GTA3 is the easiest (and most fun) out of all of them. Paramedic, Firefighter, hidden packages, those are all in the other games aswell, and harder to find and do in the other games i might add. And the map, just print out a copy from the interenet.

 

What I will have to do is exactly that, print out a copy from the internet. But since I don't know the city like the back of my hand yet it'll take some time for me to navigate using the map in my hand and correlate it to the small circular map in the game to where to go to get hid. pkgs and find rampages and such.

 

 

 

Overall, I still think Hidden Package hunt still is a bit of a chore, no, obviously not as bad as San Andreas, but in a way a bit harder because of the lack of in-game menu.

 

I guess, hidden packages rewards those lucky gamers who have a lot of time to play their games, so maybe I'm just jealous of that.

 

But I still don't find Paramedic and Firefighter missions fun or make sense.

 

 

 

[Demarest]

Of course Paramedic isn't fun. Then again, do you think any game is going to please you at every turn on your quest to 100%?

[KrustyBurger]

i actually like the Paramedic and Firefighter missions in GTA3, it keeps you playing more, this is also part of the "free roaming" of the game, it adds more value. I think they could of taken it out in GTA SA IMO because theres already too much stuff to do in that game. It works fine for 3 and Vice.

[Demarest]

I don't mind Firefighter at all. But mostly because it's an efficient way to collect vehicles. For example, in Portland, you can use it to get rarer vehicles for the IEG. In Staunton, you can use it to capture a Diablo Stallion or Mafia Sentinel so that Gangcar Roundup will be easier.

[Cheatah]

Well, maybe I'm just bitter I don't have an Ultimate Codes Disc for GTA 3 (like I did for GTA: Vice City) The cheat disc meant I never physically had to find all 100 hidden packages, do all of the unique jumps, paramedic, or firefigther missions ... all the things I don't find particularily fun.

 

I know I'm bad that way, but my name is Cheatah, and I also do have good justifications for the cheats I do use.

 

But, for GTA 3, I pretty much have to complete it the old fashioned way.

 

Anyways thanks to those who commented, you all made good points. Even if I don't agree with some of them.

[NickB]

yeah i know what you mean,BTW i never complete the hidden packages or whatnot,i just find it that boring. i dont like paramedic or firefighter either,i mean COME ON what kind of realism is being fireprrof? where's the challenge? (specially in the last mission of SA) i actually prefer VC coz its cool,hell i love the 80's,the music,the clothes,the cars,hell the game......although i was born in '91........yeah i find it strange too [/random]

[bokkers]

Cool thread, a lot of valid points. I can understand how after playing VC and SA, GTAIII can get a little frustrating. I played all 3 games when they were released, so I enjoyed the gameplay and cutscenes getting gradually better with each game. Just recently replayed GTAIII, and on replaying sadly had to remember how a lot of the main missions were incredibly frustrating.

 

It seemed to me the developers at Rockstar were happy about successfully setting up the (then) mindblowing game world of Liberty City with all the cool gags and animations, the atmosphere, the endless possibilities for the player, and then lost their groove a little in balancing out the missions. The missions are all nicely planned out and generally fun to play, but to me the increasing difficulty feels a little forced, as if they had thought: "Wait, all these mission here are set later in the game, so we just make them harder by applying stupid time-limits or yet more people attacking the player."

 

Remember that mission were you are in a car in some backyard, all three exits from there are blocked and bomb throwing people come running at you from all sides? That was for me where in GTAIII the word senseless came to mind.

 

I find that in both VC and SA the main missions are a lot better integrated into the main plot, plus have the difficulty level rising more smoothly, and therefore make a lot more sense to me. Still of course, it's a game worth playing through at least once.

 

Cheers.

[Canoxa]

Paramedic Missions: All of those points are true, but didn't you do the same thing with SanAndreas and Vice City?

 

Firefighter Missions: Read above.

 

Hidden Packages: Again, back to Vice. I know SA takes a while to beat, but have you forgotten about that awesome game set int he 80's?

 

LACK of Pause Menu Map: OK, you got me, and I agree with you on this one.

[t0nedude]

A good thread, one I don't mind bumping and adding my own comments to..

 

It's coincidental that I am also currently going through GTA 3, after having got 100% on VC and SA.

 

A lot of my points are in agreement to the OP, although Firefighter and Vigilante in GTA3 are easier than in VC or SA due to the fact that they do not have to be done all in one go.

 

Paramedic however is a much different story. It is a fact than Paramedic is much harder in GTA3 than in VC/SA, all because there is no paused in-game map to refer to, to see where all the patients are, so that you can plan your route. Sure, there is a radar, but a dot on it could mean a patient is a block away or seven, you won't know until you start to head to it. And let's not forget the algorithm that determines the amount of time at each level, to say it is coarse is an understatement. The OP is right, Paramedic is just not fun, frustrating yes, but NOT fun.

 

BTW I have done Paramedic without any problems several times in different areas in VC and SA.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think GTA3 is great and it will always be great. But I think it is time that some people took off their rose-tinted glasses and stopped romanticizing so much. The first game that is a real leap forward will always have a special place in your heart, even though games come out after that build upon it.

 

Tony.

[Vinnie]

Yeah when I first completed GTA 3 many years ago I had nothing left to do so doing the Medic, Firetruck & Taxi missions & Looking for packages & import/export garages made the game last a bit longer after completing the story. Also the "Side Missions" aren't so bad.

[AT400]

I personally like the Paramedic Missions and Firefighter missions as well. It keeps you entertained when your finished with the storyline, also you do get paid pretty well. The only downside to the GTA3 Ambulance is that it seems to have a high center of gravety, so it tends to flip when driven fast. I don't like the fact that there is no pause map, but once you played the game long enough, I'm sure that you can memorize the whole city, I know I can, its not exactly a huge map.

[helegad133]

 

Finally, the map/radar. For one, GTA3 is the smallest of them all.

I disagree, Demarest. The GTA: Vice City map was larger in scale, but there was much less roads. It took me 2 days to memorise the map on Vice City when I played it at a friend's house.

 

But if you're gonna argue against that, why don't you make 4 videos. One of getting across the width of Liberty City in an Infernus, one of getting across the width of Vice City in an Infernus, one of getting across the length of Liberty City in an Infernus, and one of getting across the length of Vice City in an Infernus.

 

Or, if you're really dedicated, do 8 videos, as per above and one of getting across the width of Liberty City in a Dodo, one of getting across the width of Vice City in a Skimmer, one of getting across the length of Liberty City in a Dodo, and one of getting across the length of Vice City in a Skimmer.

 

(P.S: Copy and Paste was really handy in the writing of this post...)

Edited March 5, 2006 by helegad133

[Sillyhed2000]

I loved the lack of a pause map. It meant that I couldn't plot a perfect course and I ended up skidding down backalleys and hot-footing it through enemy gang territory. It was just fun having to explore for yourself, finding your own way from point A to point B. Also, it was debatably the best way of learning the city; you really had to learn the landmarks to find your way around.

 

VC didn't really need a pause map imo, but SA obviously did.

 

Packages and side missions were optional. I found them fun as a distraction, but you were never made to do them.

 

SA's hidden objects were a tad on the ridiculous side though.

 

 

Finally, the map/radar. For one, GTA3 is the smallest of them all.

I disagree, Demarest. The GTA: Vice City map was larger in scale, but there was much less roads. It took me 2 days to memorise the map on Vice City when I played it at a friend's house.

 

But if you're gonna argue against that, why don't you make 4 videos.

 

You're the one arguing with his point. You should be making the videos

And he said that GTA3 was the smallest. In scale. Not nessecarily in content.

Edited March 5, 2006 by Sillyhed2000

[Demarest]

VC didn't really need a pause map imo

Especially considering how flat the map is. I still take advantage of it sometimes during Pizza Boy and/or Paramedic.

 

GTA3 was definitely more filled with content despite being smaller. Portland is still THE funnest place in all of the GTA3D's.

 

@helegad: That test would be inconclusive unless you did the GTA3 parts in GTA:LC as the VC engine was geared more for longer distances. That is to say that cars and even running cover ground faster in VC than in GTA3. But I will agree that even though VC had more real estate, a lot less of it was roads.

[helegad133]

I guess so, Dem, and I see your point. But the debate was still, GTA3 didn't have a pause map and that sucked. So, yes, GTA3 has more roads, and so it needed a pause map.

[Demarest]

That's a matter of opinion. I can set the games down for a while and if I pick them pack up, I'll recall the main routes of VC, but ALL of GTA3. Seems to be the majority opinion here too.

[helegad133]

What I meant Dem, was that Paramedic was made impossibly difficult without a pause map, and GTA3 had more streets. I guess Rockstar really didn't think of the players when making Paramedic. Sure, I agree with you, even though I haven't been able to play GTA3 for a while now (since my video card buggered up, and the ripping-off shop-keepers that sold it to me made a run for it, literally) I could still tell you how to get from Borgnine Taxis to Joey's Garage using the Chinatown shortcut and all! Like you said, and this is the same with me too, I know the streets like the back of my hand.

[blue_steel]

If you started to do Paramedic Mission when you started in Portland, then it was pretty easy to know where the people are. I think that they were all set in a preset place. Many of them could be picked u pon one road.

 

The paramedic mission isn't really as hard as everyone makes out, so long as you don't panic or try to save time by turning the corner on a hill.

[Scrappy]

One thing I didn't like about GTAIII, besides the lack of an in-game pause menu map, was the inability to remove the HUD.

[helegad133]

No, Blue Steel, Paramedic mission was impossibly hard. Of course, I tried to do it in Portland time and time again, but the lack of time and the instability of the Ambulance made it harder than it needed to be. Shame on you, Rockstar!!!

[Demarest]

No, Blue Steel, Paramedic mission was impossibly hard.

No, helegad, people have differing opinions.

[helegad133]

No, Blue Steel, Paramedic mission was impossibly hard.

No, helegad, people have differing opinions.

Yep, Demarest, and that was my opinion.

[Demarest]

Then don't say no as if he was incorrect. He was stating his opinion.