+5 SA limit

[Andy80586]

it looks like the actual IDE limit is 14,000... based on 0x4c5845 and 0x4c5cbb.... but that doesn't explain 13,984 that you start out with (in other words there should be room for 15 more objects not just 5). I wil test this further and post again when I find out for sure.

 

EDIT: I moved the limit down to 13,994... no crash. Must be something weird going on...

Edited February 4, 2006 by Andy80586

[DexX]

one of us is confused. in (maps\country\)countryS.ide for example, there are objects that go well into 186XX. there are over 18,000 objects used by the game already, so im not sure how 13,984 could be the limit

clarification?

[DeathSquad]

I was assuming 13,984 was the actual count for existing IDEs, and that the designers just happened to used ID numbers all the way to 18600, meaning there is gaps of empty ID numbers within the entire group.

[Knife]

I was assuming 13,984 was the actual count for existing IDEs, and that the designers just happened to used ID numbers all the way to 18600, meaning there is gaps of empty ID numbers within the entire group.

Yeah, that's what I would think. I think there a quite a few gaps.

[DexX]

sure enough -

 

range\file\total objs

 

Maps

615-792 - vegepart.ide - 177

800-906 - procobj.ide - 106

966-998 - barriers.ide - 32

1000-1193 - veh_mods.ide - 193

1207-1325 - dynamic.ide - 118

1327-1572 - dynamic2.ide - 245

1574-1698 - multiobj.ide - 124

2885-3135 - levelxre.ide - 250

3167-3428 - counxref.ide - 261

3430-3454 - vegasxref.ide - 24

3555-3783 - LAxref.ide - 228

3785-3888 - SFxref.ide - 103

3890-3973 - levelmap.ide - 83

3975-4239 - LAn.ide - 264

4240-4541 - seabed.ide - 301

4550-4762 - LAn2.ide - 212

4806-5089 - LAs.ide - 283

5105-5375 - LAs2.ide - 270

5390-5682 - LAe.ide - 292

5703-6009 - LaWn.ide - 306

6035-6256 - LAw.ide - 221

6280-6525 - LAw2.ide - 245

6863-7392 - VegasN.ide - 529

7415-7973 - VegasW.ide - 558

7978-8389 - VegasS.ide - 411

8390-9191 - vegasE.ide - 801

9205-9478 - SFn.ide - 273

9482-9899 - SFw.ide - 417

9900-10309 - SFe.ide - 409

10315-10744 - SFs.ide - 429

10750-11417 - SFSe.ide - 667

11420-11681 - countryN.ide - 261

12800-13563 - countrye.ide - 763

13672-13890 - LAhills.ide - 218

16000-16790 - countn2.ide - 790

17000-17474 - countryW.ide - 474

17500-17978 - LAe2.ide - 478

18200-18630 - countryS.ide - 430

subtotal - 12246

 

maps\interior - using vc-style 2dfx?!!

910-964 - propext.ide - 54

1700-2359 - props.ide - 659

2360-2882 - props2.ide - 522

13590-13667 - stadint.ide - 77

14383-14528 - int_LA.ide - 145

14530-14559 - int_SF.ide - 29

14560-14643 - int_veg.ide - 83

14650-14657 - int_cont.ide - 7

14660-14699 - gen_int1.ide - 39

14700-14728 - gen_int2.ide - 28

14735-14765 - gen_intb.ide - 30

14770-14841 - gen_int3.ide - 71

14842-14903 - gen_int4.ide - 61

15025-15064 - savehous.ide - 39

18000-18112 - gen_int5.ide - 112

subtotal - 1956

12246 + 1956 = 14202 thats not counting the gaps, so 13994 is perfectly acceptable. my curiosity is satisfied now

 

btw, there is one very peculiar thing i noticed-overlaps

 

overlaps

16700-16708 - leveldes.ide

!!!

 

objs

16700, androm_des_obj, andr_ldX, 100, 0

~~~

16708, cargo_store, cargo_net, 100, 0

end

 

16700, lod_rockgp1_12, lod_countn2, 600, 128

~~~

16708, lod_rockgp2_11, lod_countn2, 600, 128

anyone know which the game actually uses?

[Big-Bear]

But you can remove the Interior IDE's, all Enexes connected to it, and then you need to scrip the Story Line Missions I think, is this a Solution, or will thit give a crashing SA?

[JostVice]

Adding the id in MEd the object you get is the rock's LOD, but in the map viewer i can see the plane and the rocks.

I think SA supports same IDs for different objects with the heavens and hells thing.

 

[Andy80586]

I think its for just the map objects, and that overlap is a very interesting find. I went through the .exe and found 3 map-related limits but none of them are close enough to being full that adding 5 more objects would send them over the edge. This limit on IDE map objects (other IDEs are probably loaded in other places in memory) is not default +5 but rather default + 15, so either there are 10 objects that are counted but loaded somewhere else, or there is another limit I overlooked. Only way to find out is to add 6 objects into the game and see where it crashes... are there working downloads of any total conversions (such as taking SA out and adding LC or VC in... that would provide enough for testing)? If I could get a working link to an alpha or beta version of something it would make this job hella easier.

 

-Andy80586

[DeathSquad]

The San Andreas "Liberty City" total conversion was working last time I downloaded it, at least map wise. What about other possible limits such as collision file models, possibly even a txd limit?

[Y_Less]

I assume you are using a stripped SCM, otherwise I don't know how 'initiated' objects are handled, they AFAIK, act like map objects, though I don't know how many there are.

[Andy80586]

The San Andreas "Liberty City" total conversion was working last time I downloaded it, at least map wise. What about other possible limits such as collision file models, possibly even a txd limit?

There should be separate limits for those, at least there were in VC. Although if each of the 5 files were to have its own texture and its own .col file, the .txds and .cols MIGHT be getting stored there. Only way to find out for sure is to start adding the map objects in from the total conversion mod you said was working (haven't tried it yet) and see how much the 13984 number is going up when an object is added (and I am almost positive that there is a limit there and that hitting the 14000 mark will crash it... almost exact same layout as the IDE limit in Vice). In other words, if one object goes in and the number jumps to 13987 we are in business.

[Andy80586]

I assume you are using a stripped SCM, otherwise I don't know how 'initiated' objects are handled, they AFAIK, act like map objects, though I don't know how many there are.

The SCM should be working with another part of memory. When I was working with Vice I was using the original main.scm so it shouldn't be that much different here.

[ocram88]

i look forward to your work Andy80586

[DeathSquad]

Well does it have to be the map objects from a total conversion mod, or just a new map object? I can provide you with new map objects from the work I've done with SA Mapping.

[Andy80586]

they just have to be objects... all i need is 6 if the limit is in fact 5 (well just 6 for now i will need more later as more limits are hacked)

[Andy80586]

I started working with the industNW files from the gta3 mod... sure enough stick 6 of them in there and it crashes. There's a chance it might be in the upper memory range of where the gta3.img is loaded in... lots of weird things going on up there and one of them could very well be overflowing.

[Big-Bear]

But what if you just delete the Interior IDE's, and then just script the SCM, of his missions?

 

 

[Andy80586]

I took a look at some more of the code... where its crashing seems to be pointing to a section of an array from index 25000-25255. The 25000-25255 seems to be one of several partitions in this array (ex. for this all the .dff files are put in 1-20000 and .txds from 20000-25000). VC had something similar to this, but this is a bit more complicated (VC's array had maybe 4 or 5 partitions, this one seems to have as many as 8 or 9). I can't find the place or value at which this array is initialized, and it is key to unlocking the partitions and solving this problem, so the searching process shall continue.

 

-Andy80586

[Andy80586]

This is not an IDE limit! This has nothing to do with IDE files. It is a limit on the number of .col entries you can have in the program. It also seems like you can add IDE entries without having the .col files to go along with them... I was able to get a 6th IDE object in the game as long as the corresponding .col was missing. So what we are looking at here is a .col limit.

 

EDIT: I found it... it's right at 0x551106. The default value is 10150, so just increase this number to increase the limit. The value for max buildings (I would assume this to be .ipl objects) is also here, at 13000 (0x55105e). Most of these are directly parallel to the limits in Vice that can be hacked with the Limit Adjuster, so perhaps we need a new one of those for SA. Only issue I am having is that the game throws an exception every time I quit, but the game works and thats really all that matters at this point.

 

Next up is the IDE limit, which I have already found (just need to move data out and make more space for it). Then is the issue of only being able to assign up to 20,000 (the 2 memory banks for this I have already found but they also need to be moved). There are also the looping boundaries (of which I think I might know whats going on there).

 

Hacking total progress: ~10-20%

 

-Andy80586

Edited February 9, 2006 by Andy80586

[The-end]

This is not an IDE limit! This has nothing to do with IDE files. It is a limit on the number of .col entries you can have in the program. It also seems like you can add IDE entries without having the .col files to go along with them... I was able to get a 6th IDE object in the game as long as the corresponding .col was missing. So what we are looking at here is a .col limit.

 

EDIT: I found it... it's right at 0x551106. The default value is 10150, so just increase this number to increase the limit. The value for max buildings (I would assume this to be .ipl objects) is also here, at 13000 (0x55105e). Most of these are directly parallel to the limits in Vice that can be hacked with the Limit Adjuster, so perhaps we need a new one of those for SA. Only issue I am having is that the game throws an exception every time I quit, but the game works and thats really all that matters at this point.

 

Next up is the IDE limit, which I have already found (just need to move data out and make more space for it). Then is the issue of only being able to assign up to 20,000 (the 2 memory banks for this I have already found but they also need to be moved). There are also the looping boundaries (of which I think I might know whats going on there).

 

Hacking total progress: ~10-20%

 

-Andy80586

So if someone makes a handy litle program we can use san andreas like we did vice?

[solo]

This is not an IDE limit! This has nothing to do with IDE files. It is a limit on the number of .col entries you can have in the program. It also seems like you can add IDE entries without having the .col files to go along with them... I was able to get a 6th IDE object in the game as long as the corresponding .col was missing. So what we are looking at here is a .col limit.

 

Nice work there Andy, keep it up

[Dillyracer]

Andy you are the best ! If you will make it happen you will be very poplar by mappers

[ocram88]

yeah, realy cool stuff

[ronlivings08]

Nice work guys.Hope yall can figure out a way around that annoying limit.Just a quick question though-if you created a completely new .IMG file and loaded objects from it would it still have the 5 object limit?Sorry if I missed another post that answered this,just look through them right quick.Anyways-a new .IMG;will it work?

[DeathSquad]

@ronlivings08: A new IMG file won't expand the limit, all the work I've done map wise for SA has been using a seperate IMG, and still the 5+ Limit exists.

 

Now here is my question...if the limit is on how many collision files you can have within the game, how come when I delete several original objects from the game, I gain more space to add new objects? I am deleting the IDE and all related IPLs to the object, but I am not deleting the DFF/TXD or Collision File for the model.

 

Currently I have 16 IDE spaces in my game, but this is with 11 IDE objects taken out (Ocean Dock Warehouses).

[xrk]

Wouldn't that be because when you remove the models ide and ipl entries the game doesn't know they are still in the IMG, giving you more space....

[ronlivings08]

xrk-would seem to make sense,but then how would mapping mods-where there are extra instances of objects already in-game from R*-work?shouldnt the game recognize those extra instances of objects?

[Dillyracer]

Are there any new things othis project, long time nothing heared

[Andy80586]

yea there were a bunch of things that came up shortly after finding what i did. in a couple weeks are finals here... when i get through those it will be time to resume working on this considering my new girlfriend doesnt take all my time away.

 

-andy80586

[Opius]

Just a heads-up, map objects created by the SCM aren't constrained by the normal physical boundaries of the game world, so I imagine they're handled in a completely different way to IPL-based objects.