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WalkerBoh

Why Do We Complicate Life?

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WalkerBoh

It really seems like we create our own problems, which is rather pathetic. It shouldn't be that difficult to love eachother, to help eachother, to be kind, to protect, to not lie, to not cheat, etc. Why do some people think it's so hard.

 

Why do we complicate our lives? When do we think we need anything? I'm sitting here with no desire in mind.

 

Where did we get the idea of equality? Where did we get the idea of a punishment? Those fools who don't have patience enough to teach a man how to be responsible becuase of their own fears of being cheated.

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K^2

Because people, as a majority, are complete idiots.

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DeusExMachina
Because people, as a majority, are complete idiots.

Quoted for Ultimate Truth.

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spoof

@WalkerBoh

 

The answer to your first question(s) is merely human nature.

 

Human nature is such a paradox and dichotomy. It is the very same nature that produces breathtaking works of art, shows compassion and seeks to heal all of the worlds ills; that destroys, breeds hate and causes suffering.

 

To put it in very simple terms - love and hate are two sides of the same coin that is human nature.

 

 

There can never be any rational explanation for such things, because human beings can never be truly rational. We are all bounded in our rationality by default.

 

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Demarest
Because people, as a majority, are complete idiots.

The most generalized and inherently false answer I've ever heard to a legitimate question.

 

When acknowledging that there are two sides of every coin (the ultimate wisdom I might add) in the face of the question stated, the answer is entropic. It takes a second to wreck it, but it takes time to build. This was law back in the days when disobeying that law meant your demise. As time's progressed, we've developed technology to handle such things for us. Look at how many laws and/or devices exist today for "the children" or for "safety". We're cheating mother nature because it sounds good on paper to "save a life". We sacrifice the necessity to put forth the effort to rise above and so in time, we no longer have to face death as a consequence of our errors. This is meant to establish an extreme. The reader can fomulate his own scales and see how smaller actions will result in less morbid ends.

 

It all boils down to necessity. If one person is willing to take the easy way out, those toiling to do things the right way may be enticed to join them. Entropy. It's contagious and the longer it plays out, the more rotten the picture looks even at a greater distance.

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K^2

Sure, but if you take time to think through your actions, you can see, more often than not, why there is a need to do things the right way rather than the easy way. It almost never benefits one in the long run to do something destructive to others. However, most people do not actualy think their actions through, and therefore, the root cause of the problem is the fact that people are complete idiots.

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jizzyman
It really seems like we create our own problems, which is rather pathetic. It shouldn't be that difficult to love eachother, to help eachother, to be kind, to protect, to not lie, to not cheat, etc. Why do some people think it's so hard.

Could you explain what it means to "complicate"? What a "problem" is? What "pathetic" means? What "love each other" implies?

 

would you care to translate to 3000 languages, use analogies, examples, images, videos, poems, songs...

 

Why did you do what you did? Why would there be a reason? Why would it need a reason? Why would you need it to need a reason?

 

Property is theft, Reason is treason, Love is hate, Life is death...

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DeusExMachina
Sure, but if you take time to think through your actions, you can see, more often than not, why there is a need to do things the right way rather than the easy way. It almost never benefits one in the long run to do something destructive to others. However, most people do not actualy think their actions through, and therefore, the root cause of the problem is the fact that people are complete idiots.

Exactly. People don't do what's logical. Often, their emotions get in the way of their thinking.

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K^2
Could you explain what it means to "complicate"? What a "problem" is? What "pathetic" means? What "love each other" implies?

 

would you care to translate to 3000 languages, use analogies, examples, images, videos, poems, songs...

 

Why did you do what you did? Why would there be a reason? Why would it need a reason? Why would you need it to need a reason?

 

Property is theft, Reason is treason, Love is hate, Life is death...

And here we have a fine example of how people needlesly complicate things. Lets hope it doesn't go to waste and helps us work on the problem.

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Tom Toole
And here we have a fine example of how people needlesly complicate things. Lets hope it doesn't go to waste and helps us work on the problem.

what is the problem? what is "problem"?

 

what is "waste"? can problems go to waste?

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srg
Because people, as a majority, are complete idiots.

Rather hard to accept, but in some ways true.

 

Most people live in a life filled with a big delusion of desire. If expectations fall short of what they want, suffering sets in. Conflicts arise, chaos occurs just to satisfy their needs. It's an ideal thought, but if only some people can learn how to let go of too much attachment, then maybe the world can be a lot better.

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jheath

Speak for yourselves.

 

Imagine a world without conflict, without desires. Imagine a place where everybody peacefully lives in subsistence mode, doing their little role in life to go from one meagre meal to the next, never stepping on anyone else's toes. How boring.

 

Conflicts are part of what makes life interesting. Rest and relaxation have their places, but a life devoid of "complication" would be excruciatingly dull.

Edited by jheath

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K^2

So people make life complicated for the fun of it? That's an interesting point of view.

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Tom Toole
So people make life complicated for the fun of it? That's an interesting point of view.

the point of view that the aforementioned point of view is an interesting point of view is interesting is an interesting point of view

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just another thug

To build on what has been said, it is human nature to excell and move infinitely forward. Why are you never satisfied with your material possesions? Why must you have the newest trend and own the newest gadget? It's in your nature to move forward.

 

With that said, moving forward clashes with morality and spirit. Thus, we have the "complications" that we (humankind) put into our lives. Yes, the world would be better if we all lived perfectly but there will always be someone who must push forward making this ideal impossible.

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jheath

@ just another thug

 

Tell us... when in history were we ever in the position where life would have been perfectly good, had it not been for those pesky progressive types trying to invent and push forward?

 

Without ambition, without drive, without conflict and change, we would have none of the incredible inventions and systems which make life as comfortable as it is now. Up until about the last century, most societies struggled to produce enough to eat. The drive to move forward challenges us, complicates things, and leads to all kinds of problems and conflicts; but it is also the one thing that improves our lives. Progress has its price, but it comes with rewards.

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Mortukai

 

Tell us... when in history were we ever in the position where life would have been perfectly good, had it not been for those pesky progressive types trying to invent and push forward?

Well, you of all people here surely know that such a question is nigh unanswerable without a clear agreed-upon definition of what "perfectly good" actually means. smile.gif

 

I guess for many here, the idea of "perfectly good" would probably involve a life not-so-different from their own, but with no hassles, no stress, no disappoinrment, no rejection. They still have their XBoxes and cinemas and skate-parks and fast cars, but without all the negatives that come with them.

 

But for me, personally, "perfectly good" would mean living in a state which is most in-tune with our needs and desires, most closely matches our capacities for social interaction, and is most conducive to our continued evolution. In other words, I think that the ideal human society most closely resembles pre-agricultural era wandering groups of humans. Before we began agriculture, humans were taller (taller than most people are today), fitter (when running is your fastest form of transport, you tend to not get fat), more resilient (if you didn't develop immunities to disease, your died), more self-sufficient (way less dependant on others for food and entertainment), more socially integrated (there weren't many humans spending 75% of their lives cloistered away in their rooms in front of their computers), and all around less f*cked up (f*cked up people died pretty quick).

 

Sure, in such a world there were no mobile phones, no lamborghinis, no houses, no running hot water, no refrigerators, no couches, no porn. But on the plus side there were no politicians, no bombs, no alcohol, no asylums, no prisons, no lawyers, no Sex and the City, and no pollution. Our life may seem more comfortable now (a sentiment felt without any proper comparison, of course), but it is infinitely less fulfilling. Where once people spent their days in groups socialising while foraging for berries, now they sit in fluorescent lit cubicles staring at a screen. Where once people worked together to stalk and hunt prey which would be feasted on by the families, now they sit in traffic heading to a supermarket to buy plastic-covered meat, surrounded by strangers and completely alone. Where once people sang and danced around a fire, now they eat microwave dinners alone in their rooms. Where they once vied competitively among one another for the affections of the opposite sex, now they search anonymously through a list of soulless pictures hoping to find an imaginary someone with low enough standards to accept them for "who they are". Where once raising children was a community affair, where every child learns all they need to know about social interaction and gender roles, now they do their best to minimise the influence of society and keep their children "protected" from "harmful" things like sex and people with ideas the parents don't share, only to feel disapponted and ashamed when their children don't turn out as carbon copies of themselves. Where once children grew up pursuing their skills and talents to contribute to and entertain the community, before perhaps heading off to another community (or two) to find a mate (or two), now they are faced with flooded markets, forced to work at KFC serving manufactured food to zombies for a few bucks an hour, trying desperately to save enough money to travel to a country where they hope to find a life worth living, but inevitably find more zombies, and then having to serve them the alcohol they need to make the 40+ hours of their lives they wasted that week seem less significant, to save up enouh money to travel back home so that they can regale their zombie friends and family with tales of how funny the hats were in the other country, and deep down realising that they won't find happiness anywhere.

 

Oh yes, life is certainly much more comfortable now.

 

Food was important. Social ties were important. And sex was important. Simple, and effective. So effective, that it eventually led to some asshole deciding to invent a way where food was always available without having to walk anywhere, and eventually to the invention of the atomic bomb and particle accelerators. We owe our last few thousand years of human technological advancement to the 50 million preceding years of humans evolving in harmony with nature and their needs and desires. And for those who think that this is some sort of indication that we are improving, remember that the fall is always faster than the climb. In my view we are nearing terminal velocity on our nose-dive into extinction.

 

So by my definition of what "perfectly good" means, we have in the long-forgotten past, lived in such a state.

 

Until our capacities for laziness and greed (which no doubt first evolved for some long-gone beneficial purpose) combined with our capacities for creativity (which evolved to impress the opposite sex in order to get ones end wet), ensured that we began our blind descent into oblivion, boasting of our magnificence every inch of the way down. What a glorious species we are.

 

So as to the topic: why do we complicate things? Because if we didn't obfuscate every facet of our lives, we'd no doubt come to the depressing realisation that everything is f*cked and there's nothing anyone can do about it. But as long as we keep piling useless detail upon useless detail, issue upon issue, perspective upon perspective, so long as we try our best to keep ourselves lost and confused, searching in vain for our "meaning" and searching forever for "ourselves", so long as we keep ourselves razzled and dazzled and in wonder and excitement at all the shiny gadgets around us like kids in a candy store, we have a hope of forgetting, for the most part, about how much of our lives are completely wasted trying to obtain things we don't need, and forgetting how deeply lonely and insecure we are, afraid that everything will come crashing down, and afraid that it wouldn't matter anyway.

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K^2

That all sounds good except for the prospect of being killed by a wild animal, desease, or hunger at 20-something years of age. Of course, whther we like it or not, we have a good chance of driving us back to the stage of harmony with nature, also known as stone age, before the dawn of the century.

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jheath

Heh... was I the only one who read Mortukai's post and was reminded of Tyler Durden? (Not "I want you to hit me as hard as you can"-Tyler, but more like "working jobs we hate so we can buy sh*t we don't need"-Tyler.) The more I think about it, the more I like the parallel. I am Jack's obligatory movie citation.

 

I'll post something of actual substance pertaining to the debate later. Right now, I feel a sudden urge to get away from this flickering box and go kill a some wildlife. Tallyho!

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Demarest

"working jobs we hate so we can buy sh*t we don't need"-Tyler

I've been a member of that mentality for two reasons: A) my mother was a material girl to the point of being ridiculous and B) George Carlin's "stuff" routine.

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Tom Toole
So as to the topic: why do we complicate things? Because if we didn't obfuscate every facet of our lives, we'd no doubt come to the depressing realisation that everything is f*cked and there's nothing anyone can do about it. But as long as we keep piling useless detail upon useless detail, issue upon issue, perspective upon perspective, so long as we try our best to keep ourselves lost and confused, searching in vain for our "meaning" and searching forever for "ourselves", so long as we keep ourselves razzled and dazzled and in wonder and excitement at all the shiny gadgets around us like kids in a candy store, we have a hope of forgetting, for the most part, about how much of our lives are completely wasted trying to obtain things we don't need, and forgetting how deeply lonely and insecure we are, afraid that everything will come crashing down, and afraid that it wouldn't matter anyway.

Perhaps you do not understand. Perhaps I do. Let me try to help.

 

 

Once upon a time, there was a monk who had trouble meditating. Whenever he tried going into meditation, a giant spider would appear. No matter what he did, he could not get rid of it.

 

At his wit's end, the monk sought help from his master. The master instructed him to prepare a brush at his side for the next attempt, so that if the spider were to appear again, he would be able to use the brush to draw a circle on it.

 

The monk followed these instructions and attempted meditation. Sure enough, the giant spider came back. The monk followed the plan and drew a circle on the monster. As soon as he did so, the spider disappeared, and he was able to resume meditation in peace.

 

When he withdrew from the meditative state, the first thing he saw was a big black circle on his own belly. His worst enemy had been himself

 

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Tom Toole

sorry/dboleu post

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Mortukai

 

That all sounds good except for the prospect of being killed by a wild animal, desease, or hunger at 20-something years of age. Of course, whther we like it or not, we have a good chance of driving us back to the stage of harmony with nature, also known as stone age, before the dawn of the century.

Well life sure is nicer now isn't it, now that we don't have to worry about wild animals and diseases and hunger or dying young...... ¬_¬

 

We've replaced being killed by "wild animals" (surely a nasty occurance, though undoubtedly not nearly so common as one might fear) with being killed by cigarettes, alchohol, car accidents, terrorist bombings, plane crashes, random muggings, stray bullets, international wars, etc etc. Of course, some people STILL get themselves eaten by sharks and tigers and mauled horribly by hippopotami... so it's not as if we've removed the original problem of premature death.... we've just given it a bit of variety.

 

Also, pre-agricultural era, people lived for almost as long as we live today. It was only since the invention of agriculture and land ownership (which resulted in a drastically limited variety of food, as well as food being cooked and stored for long periods of time) that we started dying young and unhealthily. You really don't beleive that our species were less healthy and lived shorter lives than modern chimpanzees, do you?

 

Speaking of which, when was the last time you saw a chimp with tooth decay? And yet, they don't brush their teeth. Interesting, no?

 

@Tom Toole: It is often best, when attempting to demonstrate ones understanding of a subject, to use ones own words, and not rely on the words of others, no matter how accurately they depict what you intended to say. If you had done so in your last post, perhaps then you would see that your perception that I did not understand, was, in fact, wrong, and that whilst I did not use a metaphorical story, the meaning was still the same.

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K^2

 

We've replaced being killed by "wild animals" (surely a nasty occurance, though undoubtedly not nearly so common as one might fear) with being killed by cigarettes, alchohol, car accidents, terrorist bombings, plane crashes, random muggings, stray bullets, international wars, etc etc. Of course, some people STILL get themselves eaten by sharks and tigers and mauled horribly by hippopotami... so it's not as if we've removed the original problem of premature death.... we've just given it a bit of variety.

 

Also, pre-agricultural era, people lived for almost as long as we live today. It was only since the invention of agriculture and land ownership (which resulted in a drastically limited variety of food, as well as food being cooked and stored for long periods of time) that we started dying young and unhealthily. You really don't beleive that our species were less healthy and lived shorter lives than modern chimpanzees, do you?

I have seen data suggesting the average livespan of humans in pre-agricultural society being arround 25. In United States, the current life expectancy at birth is 77 years. Worldwide, it is currently at 64 years. Now, being given a choice between living in a modern society to the age of 77 and living in a forest spending days running after my food untill I get eaten by a wild bear at 25, I would choose the former. You, of course, have the right to feel different, and I'm not going to force you to agree with me.

 

 

Speaking of which, when was the last time you saw a chimp with tooth decay? And yet, they don't brush their teeth. Interesting, no?

We eat junk. I'm not going to argue with it. But, you know, with a proper use of a toothbrush and regular check-ups at the dentist, our teeth can be in a hell of a lot better condition than the chimps'. Smell's better too.

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The_man
It really seems like we create our own problems, which is rather pathetic. It shouldn't be that difficult to love eachother, to help eachother, to be kind, to protect, to not lie, to not cheat, etc. Why do some people think it's so hard.

Could you explain what it means to "complicate"? What a "problem" is? What "pathetic" means? What "love each other" implies?

 

would you care to translate to 3000 languages, use analogies, examples, images, videos, poems, songs...

 

Why did you do what you did? Why would there be a reason? Why would it need a reason? Why would you need it to need a reason?

 

Property is theft, Reason is treason, Love is hate, Life is death...

Exactly.

 

 

Why?

 

 

well, you cannot know the meaning of life unless you have death. You cannot know happiness unless you have known sorrow.

 

 

You cannot know peace unless you know war.

 

 

It is all part of the yin/yang relationship.

 

 

The good, simply cannot exist with out a bad to compare it to.

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Tenacious G
Because people, as a majority, are complete idiots.

to me that is textbook truth

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WalkerBoh

So if it's about the essence of people being "good" or "bad" to create balance or just apply to the yin/yang. Karma.

 

So if it's good and bad, how are those acted out? Are people naturally bad, or is it their actions? Is trying to make reason where there is none insanity?Or is something else completely controlling this balance that requires both a light and dark, good and bad?

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poopskin

plus, weapons and sick, messed up people don't make it any more easy.

they're headed to hell-o anyway.

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Sweet J Lou

Human beings have a nomadic gene in them that serves to have a need to explore and expand.

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Spazifool

One Word: Religion.

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