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IV ● XxX

Atheism

Recommended Posts

K^2

There is faith, and then there is ignorance. Former can be harmles, but the later allways causes troubles.

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mikehaze
There is faith, and then there is ignorance. Former can be harmles, but the later allways causes troubles.

If faith is harmless to one's self and others, I see nothing wrong with it then. Why do you debate it if it doesn't cause trouble? Simple: you believe it to be false and it bothers you what others believe. I have no understanding for any of you to try to make someone believe in a God or to make someone not believe. It's all ignorance.

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K^2

If you actually read my posts, you would see that I choose not to believe one way or another, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. On the contrary, I try to make everyone doubt whatever they believe.

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mikehaze

I don't care to read crap, therefore I didn't read most of this post. I'm making judgement on what I've read in the past 2 pages. It's all dumb. Belief is belief and people are raised in certain ways that others aren't. Telling them their wrong for it is the way you were brought up. Hence hypocracy.

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K^2

So if someone descides to burn people at the stake for going against their religion, you are not going to protest? After all, it is just your belief that it is wrong to burn people at the stake against their belief that it's the thing to do. And don't say it's different because someone is being hurt. That is only wrong if you believe that it's wrong to hurt other people, and you just said that it would be hypocrytical to act against other people's beliefs based on your own.

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mikehaze
So if someone descides to burn people at the stake for going against their religion, you are not going to protest? After all, it is just your belief that it is wrong to burn people at the stake against their belief that it's the thing to do. And don't say it's different because someone is being hurt. That is only wrong if you believe that it's wrong to hurt other people, and you just said that it would be hypocrytical to act against other people's beliefs based on your own.

Holy sh*tes dude, you're perfect at that apple and oranges thing. Are you comparing organized religion to murder or capital punishment? Yes, you are. Religion and extremism are TOTALLY and undeniably different. I could understand you protesting the latter but if it's just people's religious views in general, the unharmful kind in which don't affect you AT ALL, then dismantle your computer now and get a life.

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K^2

Damn, you are thick sculled. I am not protesting anything, but you saying that there is a difference between "peaceful" religion and a extremism is based on nothing more than your own belief. Yet, there you go talking about how it is hypocritic to be bashing someone else's religion based on beliefs. Who's the hypocrite now?

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mikehaze
Who's the hypocrite now?

You, for debating something whilst saying you're not protesting. Thick sculled=confident so I'll take that as a compliment, thanks. Also why is it important to you to convince someone to not have faith? Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty agnostic now and don't give a sh*t to believe or not. I just live day to day going my own way. Then there's you. You're trying to convince someone on a website that their belif is wrong when they're just basing it off of what they've heard others say. Same goes for pro-faith people. Debating from what they've learned form others. Man created science, therefore anything that has not been documented in real-time, isn't proven false.

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fido2

 

scull

Verb

  • To propel a boat using a single oar over the stern in a notch in the transom, moving the oar from side to side.
monocle.gif

Firstly, I must protest the rampant misuse of this word. Its almost as bad as "three is more then two".

 

Disclaimer: I've read through about 30-40% of this topic. Some parts were just way too rhetorical and abstract, but I did try.

 

MadeInThe80s: I got sleep paralysis once when I first started drinking, thats sits pretty well with the theory that its caused by chemical inbalances. I can see how it would make you want to become spiritual, and that after that you'd find them alot easier.

 

Hmm... "Atheists" is a pretty harsh word to brand people with, especially those who are so meek they haven't chosen to believe a "real" religion. One rebuttal I've seen people dish up before is that with all the amazing stuff in the world (basically meaning intelligent life), believing something as abstract as God(s) shouldn't be too much of a stretch beyond what is documented in physics textbooks as reality. Fair enough. Whats faith without a little uncertainty? This idea that religion is a personal pursuit of faith - abstract to reality would seem like a closing argument, but what about The Crusades? Pursuing religious ideologies in reality is dangerous, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

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MadeInThe80s

"Whats faith without a little uncertainty?"

 

That defeats the whole purpose of it.

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K^2

 

You, for debating something whilst saying you're not protesting.

I'm merely pointing out that your argument is unsound. I don't see where I'm protesting something. Are you sure you know what it meanst to "protest"? Look it up in the dictionary.

 

Man created science, therefore anything that has not been documented in real-time, isn't proven false.

Nor is something documented should be considered proven true. In fact, you can't prove anything true or false. To prove something, you must assume that certain things are true and require no proof. If your goal is to prove something, you might as well start by assuming that.

 

Any religion is basically a set of axioms. They might sound very belivable, even be selfconsistent, and create a model of the world that is nice to live by, but the odds of these axioms having anything to do with reality are null. You cannot know anything about the world. You can only make certain guesses and try to stay consistent. That's all I'm really saying, and I do not really care to actually convince anyone.

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mikehaze
Nor is something documented should be considered proven true. In fact, you can't prove anything true or false. To prove something, you must assume that certain things are true and require no proof. If your goal is to prove something, you might as well start by assuming that.

I already said that in previous posts, bud. I didn't say faith and relgiion was provable, but that's why it's called "faith" and not "everyone believe this because it's true." You may not think you're protesting anything but the way you come off over the internet easily seems so.

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K^2

There is a difference between unprovable and unfounded.

 

And things aren't allways what they seem, espetially on the nets. You should know that.

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KinkyJedi

There is no God. There is one almighty power. That is the force...

 

Now let us all pray to the giant glowing Yoda in the sky....

 

"Now let us usher under the lord..... Maxi bid the godderm force"

 

Kinky x

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The Fame Game
Hmm... "Atheists" is a pretty harsh word to brand people with, especially those who are so meek they haven't chosen to believe a "real" religion. One rebuttal I've seen people dish up before is that with all the amazing stuff in the world (basically meaning intelligent life), believing something as abstract as God(s) shouldn't be too much of a stretch beyond what is documented in physics textbooks as reality. Fair enough. Whats faith without a little uncertainty? This idea that religion is a personal pursuit of faith - abstract to reality would seem like a closing argument, but what about The Crusades? Pursuing religious ideologies in reality is dangerous, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

People who haven't experienced a religion generally are catagorized as agnostics; meaning, not knowing or sure of god(s).

 

Should atheism be forced on anyone? No. Should any religion be forced on anyone? Of course not.

 

Religion draws people apart.

 

Faith brings people together.

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Tom Toole

hmmm... Atheism? Homosexuality? Satanism? Sadomasochism? Perversion? Evil? Wrongdoers? Apathy? Famine? Suffering? Hell? hmmm... Atheism? Racism? Inequality? Capitalism? Ignominy? Death? Tribalism? Catholicism? Protestantism? Baptism? hmmm... God? Angel? Human? Animal? Plant? Is god? Is god what? is god dog? is goddot? goddisot?

 

with that we may begin again.

 

Atheism? What is atheism? Is Atheism good or bad? How does Atheism compare to Anarchism, Freemasonry, Neutrality, Indifference, Agnosticism and others?

Faith? What is Faith? Is Faith good or bad? How does faith compare to other reasons for belief, such as thought, tradition, envy, greed, and others? Is Faith easily confused with though, tradition, envy, greed and others?

God? What is God? is God good or bad? How does God compare to other beings like animals, angels, human beings, nature, trees, and racist ideologies? Is God easily confused with animals, angels, human beings, nature, trees, and the Ego?

Religion? What is Religion? Is Religion good or bad? How does Religion compare to other cultural things like Nation and Fatherland and Tradition and Government?

Satan? What is Satan? Is Satan good or bad? How does Satan compare to other beings such as Athena, Poseidon, Shiva, Death, Demons, Devils, Dragons, and others?

Truth? What is Truth? Is Truth good or bad? How does Truth compare to "knowledge of good and evil", education, training, sophistication, knowledge, wisdom, information and data?

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GM Dude
Should atheism be forced on anyone? No. Should any religion be forced on anyone? Of course not.

 

Religion draws people apart.

 

Faith brings people together.[/size]

Agreed.

 

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Tom Toole
Should atheism be forced on anyone? No. Should any religion be forced on anyone? Of course not.

 

Religion draws people apart.

 

Faith brings people together.[/size]

Agreed.

well, shall I respond in this manner, by repeating what in wikipedia it says in the introductory paragraphs to each of these, "religion" and "faith"

 

 

Religion is a system of social coherence based on a common group of beliefs or attitudes concerning an object, person, unseen being, or system of thought considered to be supernatural, sacred, divine or highest truth, and the moral codes, practices, values, institutions, traditions, and rituals associated with such belief or system of thought. It is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system"[1], but is more socially defined than that of personal convictions. The development of religion has taken many forms in various cultures. "Organized religion" generally refers to an organization of people supporting the exercise of some religion with a prescribed set of beliefs, often taking the form of a legal entity (see religion-supporting organization). Other religions believe in personal revelation and responsibility.

 

 

Faith is a belief, trust, or confidence, not based merely on logic, reason, or empirical data, but based fundamentally on volition often associated with a transpersonal relationship with God, a higher power, a person, elements of nature, and/or a perception of the human race as a whole. Faith can be placed in a person, inanimate object, state of affairs, proposition or body of propositions such as a religious credo.

 

and then to say that I disagree, and to say that I believe that food, drink, illicit activities, family relations, shared company, same workplace, same neighborhood, brings people together way more than religion or faith.

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Reincarnated

Im an Atheist, but I've found that most of us (Atheists) tend to be fine with other people believing whatever they want, who can take that away from them. But then some agree that religion is the cause of the violence in the world. I doubt that, I believe its proverty.

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Tom Toole
Im an Atheist, but I've found that most of us (Atheists) tend to be fine with other people believing whatever they want, who can take that away from them. But then some agree that religion is the cause of the violence in the world. I doubt that, I believe its proverty.

WHAT IS POVERTY?

 

WHAT IS RELIGION?

 

WHAT IS ATHEISM?

 

WHAT IS GOD?

 

WHAT IS RELIGION?

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K^2

Poverty - Having less than one's neighbors.

 

Religion - A system of beliefs.

 

Belief - Any statement that is assumed to be true by an individual or a group.

 

Atheism - Belief that there is no God. A religion. See: Religion, God.

 

God - A central non-human entity of a religion. Need not exist. See: Atheism.

 

Agnostic - A person who does not assume anything to be true and manages to stay sane.

 

 

The definitions above might seem very broad, but they work in more cases than they don't, which cannot be said about most definitions that will try to be more specific. For example, it might seem that science is a religion by the above definitions. Unfortunately, most of what is passed for science today, is. Only a hard core agnostic can keep science separate from various pseudo-scientific trends. True science does not require belief in anything. If above definitions are used, separating science from pseudo-sciences is as easy as keeping in mind that science is not a religion.

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*gta star*
Science is like resistance, it opposes something else. In this case, Science tries to prove Religion wrong. People believe what they want to believe, it's your free-will versus determinism, using the Psychological approach.

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K^2

I don't know where you got that idea. Proving any religion wrong has never been a goal of science. It isn't meant to prove anything right or wrong. Science is about constructing models that allow you to predict and modify outcomes of various real life events. It is not meant to explain these events. It is not meant to debunk any existing explanations. That's really not the point. If you seek a field that deals with explaining reality and tries to prove or disprove various religions, you are looking for Philosophy. Yes, Philosophy was at the root of sciences, but fortunately, the two separated hundreds of years ago. That doesn't mean, of course, that you can't use science in Philosophy, but you have to keep in mind that science doesn't prove anything. Ever.

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*gta star*

Right, so you're telling me that Science doesn't try to proove things wrong ? There has been many Scientific discussions into the whole 'Big Bang' theory... confused.gif

 

What is Science trying to prove here?

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Bigs

Science is the search for knowlege and the truth.

 

I don't think the goal of science is to "prove religion wrong", I just think it happens naturally as discoveries come in.

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K^2
Right, so you're telling me that Science doesn't try to proove things wrong ? There has been many Scientific discussions into the whole 'Big Bang' theory... confused.gif

 

What is Science trying to prove here?

These aren't real scientists. These are people who like to pretend that they are, in an attempt to give more weight to their words. Science cannot prove that we exist, let alone proving that something else exists, or that some event happened 13 billion years ago. The questions of science are along the lines of, "If we will be around, what kind of behavior will we observe of the neighboring galaxies in a few million years," And the answer is in the form of, "If we assume that the universe was created in a big bang, as the evidence seems to demonstrate, the galaxies will... Or if we assume a static model of the universe, for which there is less evidence, then the galaxies will ..." That is science. Anybody who will say that, "Science proves that big bang happened," knows crap about science.

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*gta star*

The people who have spent years researching aren't real Scientists. They have Science degrees, took their studies full-on, to University level.

 

Science tries to prove things wrong, it's like a war between Science and Religion.

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ilikensrs
The people who have spent years researching aren't real Scientists. They have Science degrees, took their studies full-on, to University level.

 

Science tries to prove things wrong, it's like a war between Science and Religion.

Science expands the collective knowledge of the human race. Where religion has made claims that can be disproven (all philosophy regarding proof and whatnot aside), science can prove those claims to be false. However, this does not require that the reason that science exists is to disprove religion.

 

In this sense, it's not a war between science and religion at all. Our scientific knowledge is just expanding and is able to explain things that were once the sole province of religion.

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*gta star*
Science maybe able to explain things, but Relgion is alot bigger than Science. Science tries to prove things wrong, or explain things in further detail. They can't explain Religion really because it's a huge wonder of the world.

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K^2
The people who have spent years researching aren't real Scientists. They have Science degrees, took their studies full-on, to University level.

 

Science tries to prove things wrong, it's like a war between Science and Religion.

I have a degree too. My Bachelor of Science degree is in Physics. I have been studying Physics for over half a decade, along with other sciences. In science, if you have a model that works for your situation, you use it even if you know that it is wrong. We know that Kepler's Laws are wrong. Planets don't travel in elliptical paths, but it's close enough that we don't care most of the time. We know that Newton's equations work only for very small masses moving at very low speeds, but they work for building bridges. Don't even start on Nuclear Physics. Equations there don't even make sense. But people use all that stuff, despite it being wrong. The equations work for models that we wish to construct, and that is all that matters. If science was about proving things right or wrong, it would be dead stuck.

 

Besides, it's easy enough to prove that science cannot prove anything. To construct any proof you must start with some known statements, called axioms. These axioms must be infallibly true. And you cannot come up with a single infallible statement about the world we live in. All you know comes from what you see, hear, or sense otherwise. How can you know that your senses are true? You cannot. You cannot, therefore, construct a single axiom. Therefore, you cannot construct a proof.

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