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Mafia Drive Gunner

Multiculturalism

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Mafia Drive Gunner

Ok, my debate here is does multiculturalism work, or does it just leave us with an underlying racism?

 

Ok, firstly. I believe that multiculturalism doesn't work. One of the best examples is here in Australia. We have just finished a weekend of massive riots in which many of Lebanese appearance or descent were ganged up on by 1000's of youths and bashed. None were killed, but that doesn't make it right.

 

Hang on. Why did these youths do this? Would it not have been because, for many years, these Lebanese people have discriminated our women and children for the way they are allowed to dress, spitting, raping and abusing them? That is what goes on around the beaches of Cronulla, an Eastern suburb of Sydney. These people finally rebelled against it. Many people think it is wrong, but the police force is afraid to man handle or arrest any of these Lebanese people due to the accusations of racism that may be put against them.

 

Another thing. When people move to another country, they should be going there for what that country offers, not bringing all of their culture over and trying to make it like living where they were. The worst thing is that our Government allows them to congregate and form gangs as they do, and that leads to all sorts of trouble.

 

Last year, an Aboriginal boy was killed by riding onto a busy road running away from police. There were then riots that broke out all over another Sydney suburb, Redfern. Aboriginal bigwigs came out and were disgusted, along with many do-gooders trying to get in on the action. We just missed the whole point of the story. Why was he running away from the cops? He was breaking the law, that is what he was doing.

 

Another example. My grandmother's sister married a man that was born in Australia but of Lebanese descent. As soon as they married, she was basically locked at home because it is basically part of their culture that no man can lay eyes on her. That stuff should all be thrown out the window.

 

An argument has been held as to whether Muslim girls should be able to wear those headresses or whatever to school, against the school uniform policy. Do I think that is correct? Hell no. Why should someone be able to come over here, and be able to break rules of a government funded school so they dont break there religion.

 

This all leads to an underlying racism, even if some people do openely support multiculturalism. Have you met anyone, ever, who has never made a racist or racist natured comment? I bet not. This underlying racism all came out last weekend in the streets of Cronulla.

 

Yet our government continues to deflect the blame to intolerant or uneducated youths, and claims that this country can work under multiculturalism. They know absolute f*ck all. Many of my father's friends and himself saw the beginnings of multiculturalism, and they saw this coming.

 

Ladies and Gentlmen, boys and girls, baby boomers and social commentators, multiculturalism may work in its beginnings, but in the long run, multiculturalism DOES NOT work.

 

Thankyou. -MDG

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Jack_Knife

Personally I think that it is, infact, about youths being uneducated.

 

When I was in primary school, I remember being taught a lot about other cultures, because in Australia, and particularly here on the Gold Coast, we have a very multicultural society, like you say. I honestly think this kind of education breeds acceptance. I know it has for me, at least.

 

Multiculturism can work, and will work, in a society were acceptance is taught and encouraged. If people are uneducated on other cultures formally, they're going to grow up listening to friends, family and the media, all of which can be racist at times. And that's what they'll become.

 

I dunno, I'm only speaking from experience here. I've grown up in an accepting environment, being taught about other cultures, and I'm not racist in the slightest.

 

You're right, though, multiculturism isn't going to work in a country where people like you are, who aren't going to accept the differences in people's beliefs, including religous related garments and the like.

Edited by Jack_Knife

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AbbaZabba

I completley agree with the last statment.

 

I think any rule against head-dresses in school, would be rediculus. A basball cap and a religious garment, are two completley different things.

 

I also believe that multiculturalism hasn't been around for that long. In comparison to the ages of most countries, multiculturalism has just begun.

Things do take a while to settle in. With proper education people will come to enjoy learning, about other cultures.

 

My mother is a black women from Tobago (Trinidad & Tobago). My fother is a white Scott/Britt, born in Toronto. I grew up very close to China Town, went to school in Little Italy, then Little Portugal. My fathers new wife is Argentinian. I moved to french town in Manitoba, and I've been dating a french-canadian girl for a year now.

 

So I guess you could say: Multicultralism works for me. biggrin.gif

 

 

Edit: Many Typos...

 

edit: @Kurropt Antagonist: Deffinatley this is true, as well. Everything is about compromise. We accept each other, as a price for being accepted.

If that makes sence..

Edited by AbbaZabba

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Lurk Morrison

While I mainly agree with the last two statements (Jack_Knife and AbbaZabba), I also partially agree with Mafia Drive Gunner. If multiculturalism is going to work, then BOTH sides have to accept/tolerate the other side. It shouldn't just be a one-sided deal. If you move to a new country, you have to accept how things go about there, but you don't have to completely ignore your own culture/heritage. If someone moves into your country, you don't have to change how you do things, just accept that they were brought up differently.

 

It's all about compromise.

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reptilexcq

Multi-culturalism is unavoidable. Even if the entire Earth compose of only white race...there is still problem. They will form their own little sects and segrations due to internal problems. So if you can't solve that...how can you solve multi-culturalism.

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K^2

Ok. First of all, let us not confuse culture and race. If I was to walk up to a Muslim man and start making fun of Islam, it would not be racism. If I am to work together with a black guy on some project for a university class, it is not multi-culturalism.

 

Now to the point. Yes, I think there are a lot of problems with multi-culturalism. Even something as simple as different religions can cause serious problems.

 

There are two ways to work arround this. First is assimilation. Despite the fact that we all belong to different races, we can belong to the same culture. It is clear that culture is the matter of upbringing, so conformation is possible. It would probably be a costly process, because a lot of people will refuse to conform, but in a few generations, it can be ironed out.

 

Second is to allow multi-culturalism. Despite difficulties, it can be made to work. However, it is necessary to make sure that the laws do not restrict any particular culture, and that the law enforcement is allowed and required to act to uphold the law regardless of the culture to which the involved parties belong. An example of dress code has been brought up. If your country is multicultural, there should not be a dress code that restricts it. It should not work in the way of allowing an exception to members of a certain culture, but rather not to create restrictions in the first place. If there is a requirement for certain cultures to wear hats or scarfs, there should be no dress code that prevents any student, regardless of culture, to wear one.

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Forelli_Boy

I don't think the problem refered to here is as much multiculturism as it is an environment of forced political correctness like what's happening in the United States. For example, many members of the ethnic groups that affirmative action is helping to get into college in the US still either don't graduate or graduate near the bottom of their classes. But it's not that I'm saying that they're not capable of graduating at or damn near the top, of course not.

 

What I think MDG refers to is the fact that one can't argue against things like affirmative action because people will start accusing that person of racism, even if that person isn't racist or does not argue for any reason that is racist. wow.gif People concentrate too much on trying to be PC that they sometimes fail to recognize that the reality isn't, at least not to the social standards of PCness.

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spoof

 

Ok, my debate here is does multiculturalism work, or does it just leave us with an underlying racism?

 

My answer would be YES and no (respectively).

 

First things first. What is meant by multiculturalism?

 

Culture isn't a national or ethnic thing; it is far too complex a subject to be pigeon-holed as such. I'm English and traditionally, there has always been the working / middle / upper class divide. Multiculturalism has always existed extraneous to religion / skin colour. Multiculturalism has always existed in every society since the dawn of man.

 

Asking "does it work" is akin to asking "is fire actually hot?"

 

Every single country in the known world has been influenced by many cultures and will always continue to do so.

 

 

Ladies and Gentlmen, boys and girls, baby boomers and social commentators, multiculturalism may work in its beginnings, but in the long run, multiculturalism DOES NOT work

 

On the contrary, I would posit the converse. In the long run, multiculturalism is the only thing that can work........just as it always has.

 

The genie has been let out of the bottle. People are aware that other cultures exist outside of the one in which they were raised. It is human nature to be curious as much as it is to be scared of the unknown.

 

No matter what the minority / majority, or culture of individuals; multiculturalism has always been around and shall continue to always be around. As far as I'm concerned, that's what makes life interesting smile.gif

 

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Forelli_Boy
Ok, my debate here is does multiculturalism work, or does it just leave us with an underlying racism?

 

My answer would be YES and no (respectively).

 

First things first. What is meant by multiculturalism?

 

Culture isn't a national or ethnic thing; it is far too complex a subject to be pigeon-holed as such. I'm English and traditionally, there has always been the working / middle / upper class divide. Multiculturalism has always existed extraneous to religion / skin colour. Multiculturalism has always existed in every society since the dawn of man.

 

Asking "does it work" is akin to asking "is fire actually hot?"

 

Every single country in the known world has been influenced by many cultures and will always continue to do so.

 

 

Ladies and Gentlmen, boys and girls, baby boomers and social commentators, multiculturalism may work in its beginnings, but in the long run, multiculturalism DOES NOT work

 

On the contrary, I would posit the converse. In the long run, multiculturalism is the only thing that can work........just as it always has.

 

The genie has been let out of the bottle. People are aware that other cultures exist outside of the one in which they were raised. It is human nature to be curious as much as it is to be scared of the unknown.

 

No matter what the minority / majority, or culture of individuals; multiculturalism has always been around and shall continue to always be around. As far as I'm concerned, that's what makes life interesting smile.gif

For some odd reason I link multiculturalism with social equality, so bear with me if this argument seems a bit inconsistent.

 

"Multiculturalism" has come about primarily because civil rights laws following the civil rights era (not that they weren't necessary, remember) eventually caused general society to require it. And it has not necessarily been around since the dawn of man. Yes, the cultures of many countries could have been influenced by other cultures but that does not necessarily produce multiculturalism.

 

 

I'm English and traditionally, there has always been the working / middle / upper class divide. Multiculturalism has always existed extraneous to religion / skin colour.

 

It is human nature to be curious as much as it is to be scared of the unknown.

Historically, even the possibility of multiculturalism produced more fear than curiosity. This resulting racism, sometimes overt, sometimes underlying, often relegated many ethnicities to the lower ends of the class divide. Statistics involving crime, income or other socio-economic factors regarding different ethnicities in America, England, France, etc. will confirm this. monocle.gif

 

Eventually, those disadvantaged minorities took matters into their own hands and created situations that bring multiculturalism into debate, be it the non-violent Civil Rights Movement or ethnic riots (bringing us back to the beginning of this debate tounge.gif )

 

Laws have been implemented in attempts to jump-start multiculturalism but the fruits really have yet to be seen. People are either forcing themselves to conform and/or are taking them with boxes of salt. They address more of the concerns of visible diversity while doing little to address the underlying concerns of social inequality.

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serbia lives

Whole world speaks sh*t about us serbs and presents us like sadists and tyrants on CNN BBC or other puppet media agencies,even today with democratic government.Look here are many people who are great people with soul and conscience.I ilke all people across the world,regardless of nation or race!Join our great multiculturalist movement!I like my nation and culture,but that doesn't mean I'm nationalist and chauvinist!I like all people...If you don't believe me,come to visit us..and listen to our real voice.

This song will tell you much:

 

Imagine there's no Heaven

It's easy if you try

No hell below us

Above us only sky

Imagine all the people

Living for today

 

Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion too

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace

 

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will be as one

 

Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed or hunger

A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world

 

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will live as one

Edited by serbia lives

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Canofceleri

The lines were meant to be broken at some point... if they're not broken the isolated subject becomes extinct, essentially. Whether or not there is a battle along the way is the different story... there usually is. But that's inconsequential, the struggle or the social problems which come to exist as a result of the initial or gradual exposure/interaction (which is what most here are focused on) is just a tiny part of it all.

 

Racism is retarded, intelligent individuals understand this. But, there's another argument buried in this issue... are humans genetically predisposed to being racist? Is racism an internal tool in the evolutionary game to establish a dominant sector? It's an interesting thought. But as we do evolve and possibly get an even more developed brain, are we losing our taste for racism? Are the masses who find no logic in racism an early sign of things to come? In the future of hominids, will we find a more cerebral way to establish dominance?

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MadeInThe80s

I think Aussies are too blame just flat out (I'm half Aussie, half Kiwi), when I was living in a mostly Lebanese community all my mates were Lebanese... and mostly Muslim too, they were all champs... seriously my best mates, we had Aussie kids there and they were mates too, everyone got along I never even looked at them differently to me IT WAS when I moved to the Cronulla area and found out Aussies are just straight up racist, I was called wog upon my first week there cause I "talked" like one, they were all idiots. They made me open up my eyes to see I was different, I think alot of it is passed down from their ignorant dickhead parents and Lebbos just react to that. You don't see Lebbo's targetting any other race except Aussies... Why? because they bring it on themselves!

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FLTstanway

Right, i'm completely english and having been brought up all my life in the town of mansfield (uk,notts), a place most would state as having little multiculturalism, i apologise if my views seem in any way biased or one sided.

I would have to agree with spoof, that its completely true that multiculturalism has existed in every society since the dawn of time but it's the modern concept of multiculturalism that has to be understood. the definition reads "a Term used to describe many cultures and learning to get on with one another with mutual respect." now, although there has been many cultures in our country for hundreds of years, todays multiculturalism is taken by most to describe the various cultures found within one area of society and how the coincide with one another.

so to ask "if it works?" would be asking if the pope's religous. this multiculturalism aspect to the world we live in has always "worked" but it's the ethnic segragation it has created that disputes how well it has worked in differing areas. All who have lived in britain have knowledge of the race riots of the 80's around the uk. this WASN'T due to a lack of multiculturalism because before, and even stronger after the violence, this was still there, but it WAS due to the divides it caused and the differing views that sparked a conflict.

so yeah, multiculturalism works in our world today as it always has done but it's the differing effects that spiral away from it where central aspects such as race or religion take over the bigger picture, through some extreme individuals, that causes minute problems in a huge diversly cultured world.

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*gta star*
This topic might be old now, but I still feel a need to reply. Anyway, this is a topic that I study at College, Diversity. In Diversity, multi-culturalism is a topic that we study. In a way, Multi-culturalism is a good thing because it helps a community tie together, with different cultural and traditional values. However, mult-culturalism can be a bad thing because cultures may not get on together, hence the war today.

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Tom Toole

First of all the question posed is incorrect. The topic starter states that "multiculturalism does not work"

 

1) What is multiculturalism?

2) What other things are related to multiculturalism?

3) What would constitute it working and it not working?

4) How would we investigate if multiculturalism not working?

 

let us begin anew perhaps a nice starting place would be wikipedia:

 

1) wikipedia -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism

 

Multiculturalism is an ideology advocating that society should consist of, or at least allow and include, distinct cultural groups, with equal status. Multiculturalism contrasts with the monoculturalism which was historically the norm in the nation-state. (Monoculturalism implies a normative cultural unity, 'monocultural' can be a descriptive term for pre-existing homogeneity). The term multiculturalism is almost always applied to distinct cultures of immigrant groups in developed countries, not to the presence of indigenous peoples.

2) wikipedia -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism#See_also´

 

Cosmopolitanism

Cultural mosaic

Cultural pluralism

Cultural competence

Ethnic origin

Global justice

Intercultural competence

Interculturalism

Nation-building

Nationalism

Political correctness

Eurabia

Islamic dress controversy in Europe

Racial integration

Racialism

Transculturation

 

3) since according to wikipedia 'multiculturalism is an ideology advocating that society should include distinct cultural groups with equal status' and that it not working would mean that it is working less well than the alternative - 'multiculturalism contrasts with monoculturalism'

 

4) Let us take a look then at monocultures with a few examples we can all accept, including but not limited to Japan (pre-1840), China (pre-20th century) The Amish, and other closed cultures, closed societies, closed systems.

 

And let us compare and contrast their "effectiveness" which could be measured in many different ways according to your taste and prejudice.

 

To such standards of Multiculturalism as the USA melting pot, /The Roman Empire (egypt/middle east/Eastern Europe/Western Europe), India (muslim/hindu), China (barbarians/Chinese) and perhaps a really stronghold of multiculturalism could be said to be the internet, right now, today.

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