Vehicles Conversion Policy

[Duders]

Don't you think that the rules are abit strict? I can see what this is all about but I think the rules should be less strict. Most people start to learn modding with conversions and sometimes the origional author is too busy to give permissions. Sory, but I just think that the rules are abit too strict and should be less strict.

 

-duders

[Tornado Rex]

You can convert cars all you want. You just can't release them here unless the original author posts in your topic saying it's ok. As is stated in the rules.

 

I don't really see what the problem with that is

[Duders]

For example, if someone is trying to convert a car from NFS and has permission, wouldn't it be quite a waste of time for the author to make an account in this forum to give permission? It would seem rather stupid

 

-duders

[disco]

For example, if someone is trying to convert a car from NFS and has permission, wouldn't it be quite a waste of time for the author to make an account in this forum to give permission? It would seem rather stupid

 

-duders

couldn't you just email the original author?

[jelly]

For example, if someone is trying to convert a car from NFS and has permission, wouldn't it be quite a waste of time for the author to make an account in this forum to give permission? It would seem rather stupid

 

-duders

couldn't you just email the original author?

Not with the new rules.

 

If you want to use conversion as a way to learn modelling, feel free to do so. Don't release it, though.

[Demarest]

Don't you think that the rules are abit strict? I can see what this is all about but I think the rules should be less strict. Most people start to learn modding with conversions and sometimes the origional author is too busy to give permissions. Sory, but I just think that the rules are abit too strict and should be less strict.

 

-duders

I agree with you. Just wanted to let you know that it's been discussed MANY times and for it to finally yield a rules change, you're not going to have any impact with such a thread.

[Neo-K 182]

the rules are perfect with the exception if making the permission be posted by the auther here on GTAF. that is completely asinine. but whatever. the elite scratch modelers think that they are gods so let them do what they want.

[Dup]

We're trying to promote some creativeity here. Thoese who are serious about their work, about learning 3D modelling and have great intention to release a conversion for learning perposes should have no real trouble getting some pemission following the new rules. It takes the same kind of dedecation.

 

This has been the way for nearly 7 to 8 years since the dawn of modding GTA1 and to be quite frank, the hard rules made it a damn creative environment and I learnt a lot, not just about GTA but about graphic editing in itself.

 

Check this Link.

 

That's all my GTA1 cars since I started. My first was a conversion between the taxi and porka turbo. Simple but effective. Then I went on to developing my own shapes, then shading, then finally hooking something decent up. Then it was down to getting perfect highlights and shadows to be as realistic as possible.

 

If they hadn't have banned the release of more than a couple of permitted conversions, i would still be at stage one, cutting up cars by other people.

 

The only way to learn is to play with other people models, but why bother releasing them if ou can't 100% prove you're allowed to. It's commen sense that its pure theft. If you were in court for whatever and you couldn't provide substancail evidence in your defence, would you still plead innocent? It just makes the situation worse, brings in all types of spam and damages the repuation of our creative commuinity.

 

By all means show screenshots and ask for help and share things privately, but don't ruin the face of the forums for your selfish acts if you're not prepared to put in a small effort to get someone to post for you.

 

If people aren't encouraged to get off first base, the point of the mod showroom ceases to exist, don't you agree? all the same faces keep modelling and the noobs keep on being noobs. Not what we want at all.

 

I am more than happy to help someone who goes about finding that help in the right way. Hell, I spent hours on MSN trying to teach Omega007 to model his own sh*t till I realised he was posting as other members on MSN and I banned him.

 

We are probably scaring a few ppl off but I am working on a solution to that this week to make the vehicle showroom a little more inviting and welcoming.

 

EDIT: Ignore spelling, Bit of a learning disability going on, combined with tiredness. Im usually good at coping with it.

Edited September 7, 2005 by Dup

[Augh]

Demarest, you STILL haven't told me why over a year ago you argued against better .dff locks, suggested for the sake of scratch modeler's intellectual rights and protection of their efforts. You in fact accused me, and by implication us, of "gross arrogance" on the matter. It hardly surprises me you're taking this small opportunity to further snipe away at the matter, and also to attack staff policies. I didn't know you were a 3d modeler I got to say. ARE you concerned or connected somehow?

 

If an author isn't going to take 5 minutes to register and post consent, then they weren't interested enough in the life of the conversion to take 5 minutes, or under effortless time out. That tells you everything you need to know. The issue of convertors working pretty hard in most cases to prominently display their own name all over the mod, model, and or topic at any chance possible, simply nails the coffin shut.

 

If someone can offer a solid argument, I didn't see it anywhere on these forums yet. And no, you don't learn to model by adding dummies to pre-existing sh*t. Don't even try that tack guys, it reeks to high heaven.

 

Hasta la pasta

[DexX]

 

Don't you think that the rules are abit strict?

Well if we thought that before posting the rules, we probably would have changed them, yes?

 

So no, they arent. and you think THESE rules are strict? i had every intention of banning them outright, before illspirit talked me out of it. So yea, it could be worse ladies. pack up your purses and go somewhere else if you don't like them.

[Demarest]

Demarest, you STILL haven't told me why over a year ago you argued against better .dff locks, suggested for the sake of scratch modeler's intellectual rights and protection of their efforts. You in fact accused me, and by implication us, of "gross arrogance" on the matter. It hardly surprises me you're taking this small opportunity to further snipe away at the matter, and also to attack staff policies. I didn't know you were a 3d modeler I got to say. ARE you concerned or connected somehow?

1) This isn't about me. I'm one person and I AM entitled to my opinion.

 

2) Last I checked, I had nothing but respect for you, expressed it to you, and expressed it publically. So no need to take a difference of opinion personally.

 

3) I code. I have a pretty firm grasp AND experience with investing a ton of time into something and watching it ripped off. I also understand that by definition, the only way to ensure somebody doesn't touch my work is to not let them touch it. I don't think like that because I code for fun (or for karma if you were to believe my badge). I try and distribute my work for others to enjoy, for others to learn what's out there, and for others to either develop their skills or aspire to.

 

I'm assuming we're of different minds on the subject. I'm also assuming we'd have little chance of swaying the other on the subject since I additionally assume that we are both veteran observers/participators in this very old debate. Accepting all that as truth, what's to gain in going fisticuffs over it? If nothing else, your side of the argument won. Doesn't matter what I think.

[Augh]

I think you'd find you are deeply involved and relevant to your own opinion on the matter of converts rulings, otherwise it becomes entirely abstract.

 

If I comment on its imo somewhat unexplained or perhaps transparent in places nature, that's also about you. No? Maybe there's a deeper concern than "peace" for some who'd rather not rock the boat and upset people, draw attention to this sorry chain of custody that conversions are becoming. Maybe not? I'd suggest there is, call me paranoid. Persons HAVE been pointing out the shady nature of conversions for longer than I've been here for one, and nonetheless every time anything rotten is unearthed, all and sundry act shocked and surprised, the same who tell complainants they are "paranoid" or just "arrogant and greedy". That isn't paranoia, that's a sorry mess.

 

You have a good position in the codeside community, I don't doubt you work (not solely, just as a motivator) to enhance, spread, and expand that status, your perogative. Your post count does speak volumes. This all makes me wonder about your motivations in protesting (why not be honest? I can live with myself), very simply, also of others with a like approach to this matter. THAT done and done; If in the temporarily depersonalised position which "isnt you" for arguments sake, a writer of modifications for GTA of a non polygon modeled nature, are stating that conversions shouldn't be regulated by these rules, I'd say polygon modelers really ought to speak up if there's disagreement with your perception.

 

Otherwise these threads are simply a case of who gets there first and has their exclusive say. Point, counterpoint. Just watch as I'm counterpointed to death next.

 

I used to like the idea of freely distributing goodies to an exclusively trustworthy and appreciative audience, it's unfortunately a pipe dream, nothing more. Ripping isn't a pipe dream, evasively tacking one's own name onto someone else's work, isn't a pipe dream. They need to end.

 

And no man, you accused me of having no place to say what I made is mine, and split. That was the last communication of our maybe 3 or 4 total. It stuck in my craw, unsurprisingly. It was disappointing to say the least.

 

Alls I got for this, your post reply eminently was not steerable away from a personal context. I am sure you'll understand having been in reverse position

[Demarest]

 

And no man, you accused me of having no place to say what I made is mine, and split.

Nah. I distinctly remember you had made some RC model, I thought it was adorable, said so... There was even talk of me writing some code for some sort of release video or something. Sorry the details escape me.

 

Anyways, I view we're all in this together. I'm VERY thankful that the toolers (the glue of this community) aren't so stingey with their work. If I said what you accuse me of there, then I assume it was taken the wrong way. If not, I apologize. What you made is yours and I think you (and all modders) are dears for sharing their work with the rest of us.

 

When a thief is identified, they WERE publically drawn and quartered. Here, at the #1 GTA modding hotspot. Is that not justice? Believe me when I tell you that I've become a bit of an expert at gaining a good name for hard work and watching it tarnished irrevocably With this new policy, the ripping will still take place. But now the rippers can maybe hide elsewhere and escape the shame of public humiliation.

 

Like I said, we are on opposite sides with no sign of that changing anytime soon. And with the decision having already been made and implimented, it's really not worth bad blood developing out of it. In fact, I only replied to make sure we got the personal thing out the way. That said, I will admit that I'm nowhere near as in touch with the modeling scene as I once was. Maybe it has gotten worse to the point of requiring drastic measures. If the amount of code conversions are any indication, I would believe it. You just don't see the coders complaining. It was always like that. And I've always beend of the mind of education vs OVER restriction.

[Augh]

Before we get into specifics I'd like to repost a comment by our own Illspirit, a gta modder who there are very few in a position to criticise on basis of experience or relativity to the gta scene. i'm glad to have this really, as noone else who anyone will listen to for very long has come out and stated it, despite its very undeniable accuracy;

 

"go to an NSF forum, rip a car, and see how fast you're flamed to death and banninated. Goto a Half Life, UT, or whatever mod site, convert something that's not yours, and expect the same. Converters have it easy here because the GTA3D mod scene grew up so fast and there's not as much communal respect for other's work."

 

Original context here just to avoid possible accusation of misquotation, not from you dem btw, honestly I expected us to have company already, and not the sort that's good for me, maybe not you either, whatever yadda yadda.

 

Ok to get the other out of the way, the RC car was the rest of the entire comms ever, and not connected in any way. The point that stuck was an unconnected thread in the vehicles area specifically and solely re; locks. You posted accusation of arrogance, fled, I asked for an explanation, made a variety of edits in order to attempt to get one, all of them placatory. You btw didn't encounter site access troubles till later on. There I leave it, I said what was on my mind for 12 months or so. Done done done. End. OT.

 

Ok, so thieves are hung drawn and quartered here at the #1 gta modding hotspot. No, I'm afraid not. I have to post protest, report dodging of guidelines and rules, and observe all manner of sneaky bullsh*t day in day out here as do others, just to get past the sh*t to the posts with content. When we demand the "justice" you described, an end to unsolicited conversions which are out of the author's control, things like the linked topic happen. It has become long ago the case that convertions are so wormed into the fabric of gta 3d mod that a frankly normal to expect, hostile reaction to them is generally shouted down as flaming or destructive to the community. Destructive to WHOSE community? Why is it that I hear so much support and so forth when i basically step out of line and blast what I detest with the scorn it deserves, exclusively OFF the forums? Why is it the case that so many people don't understand the nature of converted materials? See the recruits and requests area and others for a range of third hand convert requests and people waving permissions that don't belong to them. Converts are not attacked by these rules. Converts are protected by a lack of these rules.

 

Models are an entirely different nature of beast to machine code, you know this because in the case of models it is patent and observable, I know this because I have written C++ based codes from template and scratch basis both myself in the past, for some time in fact. Both are intellectual properties which can be modified, copied or outright stolen. If you don't want your code templated, don't allow it, you can start by fighting any rippage of your codes that you see fit. If you CHOOSE not to do this, that won't stop others from protecting their hard work. I'm not seeing a point here beyond a slight intellectual posing by either yourself or code community (oh we aren't so grabby with OUR stuff, grow up!), or as you have said, a possible need to look closely into what is actually going on ad nauseum in the "modeling" areas. I'd certainly prescribe the latter to all.

 

While I'd like to be more peacable and agreeable on the personal and impersonal matters both, I can only do my convictions justice by standing by them, as I must anyway by virtue of their being my convictions. I do so.

 

You guys have 98 cents coming back, lemme just get that for you...

 

Cheers

Edited September 7, 2005 by Augh