Replacing Fans and Data Transfer

[BenMillard]

The fans in my PC have been getting increasingly noisy and the CPU one has even started to squeak after several hours of use. At startup it sounds like the whole thing is shaking itself to pieces as all these loose fans rattle and grind on their bearings trying to build up the necessary speed to cool the PC during startup.

 

I have never bought new hardware for any of my PCs before. I recently bought a new mouse (£30 optical mouse from Logitech, if you were wondering) but that's about the limit of my experience.

 

Also, a way to transfer small(ish) amounts of data from this Windows XP machine (which is full of USB ports) to the Windows 95 machine downstairs (which is full of dust) would be much appreciated. This is so I can work on my websites while my parents are asleep, since this PC is too close to their bedroom for them to sleep through the keyboard clatter and the occassional muffled scream of: "I HOPE THE MAKERS OF THIS FVCKING BROWSER DIE IN A HORRIBLE WAY!!!"

 

I had been using floppy discs but the floppy drive in this WinXP machine is a piece of crap and now does not work at all. It normally requires the normal startup to be skipped since it does not work at all. I don't want to network the PCs together because the downstairs computer has to be isolated from the internet as much as possible to protect it, since it has all my parent's business accounts on it. It has never had the internet connected to it, lucky thing. It was made in 1996 or 1997 and is a P100, so that might give you some idea what sort of options might be available for it.

 

Not many, I expect!

[Wolf68k]

Win95?? Damn!!!!

 

Well if the old system had USB, and if that version of Win95 had the USB patch, I would suggest getting a USB thumb/jump drive...even if it was Win98 you need drivers which are easy to get from the maker of the USB thumb/jump drive.

 

If both machines had a CDRW burner then you can use a CDRW disc.

 

 

About your cooling.

Tell me what web sites you can shop from in your area and I'll see if I can help you find something.

But as a base suggestion; for the CPU get the Zalman CNPS 7000 for some great cooling and super quiet.

Case fans are basicly 'a dime a dozen' you just need to know what size the current ones are so you know what to shop for. Even though most case fans are cheap, you can spend a few more dollars for some that are said to be quiet.

Edited August 3, 2005 by wolf68k

[Fozzy Fozborne]

[if you can physically move your 95 computer next to the XP or can get a really long [temporary] ethernet cord to go from one to the other]

 

On the XP machine go to start->all programs->accessories->system tools->settings and file transfer wizard. go through all the steps and it should work. [it is compatable with 95].

 

That's best if you have really big transfers, otherwise, just pick up a small usb drive ($15.00 and up for 128mb)

 

And the fan thing, it should be easy, just open the case, locate the fan, remove it and put a new one over it, and plug in the power cords (2)

 

 

[BenMillard]

I am in the South-east of the UK, so any shop which can send products to their fairly cheaply would be fine. Obviously they have to be a genuine store and not just a phishing scam, too.

 

New fans and a data transfer solution are likely to last a number of years, so I don't mind it being a bit pricey. The current fans make so much noise I seriously worry about what might happen if they suddenly failed. Being able to transfer data to the old PC would also be very useful for when my parents get back from their holiday. Oh, my CPU is an AMD1400XP and I have no intentions of overclocking it, in case that helps shape your recommendations.

 

USB seems to be the preferred method. Is it possible to get a USB device which would connect to the Win95 machine? It would have to come with drivers and stuff, too. If that is possible, it could be a really elegant solution since my dad's digital camera uses a USB card. It's fast, reliable and integrates well with the OS. Hopefully USB sticks are similarly usable.

 

With fans, there is one case fan which looks like being about 80mm diameter, which I think is a standard size? The case fan is 120mm measuring the diagonal and 80mm measuring straight across. I'm not sure quite which measurement is used the classify them. There is a fan inside the power unit as well but I don't think that one is making too much noise. The CPU fan seems only one seriously warn out but a quieter case fan could be good, too.

 

About £100 is my upper limit for all the required items, ideally.

 

Did a quick search with Froogle about found a series of articles about using Zalman components including a Zalman CPU fan and the real effect they had. Anyone who knows me knows I love graphs, so I'm sold. However, I'm not sold to the extend of buying everything they make because only the CPU fan is in serious need of replacement.

 

(EDIT) The computers cannot be used and are at opposite ends of the house. Small amounts of data have to be transferred from one to the other twice a day, usually.

Edited August 5, 2005 by Cerbera

[Wolf68k]

The problem is that Win95 doesn't support USB. There is one version of Win95 that does (Win95 OSR2) and it was short lived because Win98 came out shortly after, and Win98 supports USB just fine as long as you have the right drivers.

I'd give you a copy if I could.

 

 

As far the Zalman suggestion and your AMD XP 1400. Nope I would have suggested it if you were running a 200Mhz Duron. You said your system was loud, well that Zalman will get you one step closer to it being quieter.

I wasn't suggesting buy everything Zalman offers for cooling, all though thier VGA coolers could help as well and they too get damn good reviews for cooling and low noise level.

 

Case fans, there are a number makers that make "silent"/stealth case fans...basicly a case fan that spin slower but still move a good volume of air compared to standard case fans that have to run at higher RPMs to move the same air.

[Wheelman]

 

With fans, there is one case fan which looks like being about 80mm diameter, which I think is a standard size?  The case fan is 120mm measuring the diagonal and 80mm measuring straight across.  I'm not sure quite which measurement is used the classify them.  There is a fan inside the power unit as well but I don't think that one is making too much noise.  The CPU fan seems only one seriously warn out but a quieter case fan could be good, too.

Fans are measured straight, i.e. not diagonally. Yes, a standard case fan is 80mm, and a computer of the age of yours would almost certainly have 80mm fans (more modern cases often come with 120mm fans as they can spin slower to shift the same volume of air, thus making less noise. However there's obviously no point attaching a 120mm fan over an 80mm hole, it'll just make more noise and turbulence, so stick with what your case was designed for).

 

If you don't mind spending on the very best fans with the quietest bearings, go for case fans from Papst or Zalman. However bear in mind that the majority of fan noise doesn't come from the bearings (unless of course the fan is rattling) but from the speed it runs at. If there's any metal mesh that's part of the case that the fan is having to push air through, this can be a source of noise because of the turbulence it creates. So if you've got a Dremel, cut it out.

 

Also note that the standard depth of a case fan is 25mm, so I'm guessing you're looking for fans with dimensions of 80×80×25mm.

 

Note that the place I linked to isn't the cheapest, especially for smallish orders as delivery is expensive. Orders like this are better placed with ebuyer or dabs.

 

Regarding the data transfer solution, as wolf says you can't use a USB memory stick on a Win95 machine. Are there no data backup facilties on the Win95 machine? How do you use a machine for business purposes and running accounts without a backup facility? If you can, use a CD-RW - you might need a new one every year as they canonly support a limited number of changes, but they aint pricey at all. The best bet that I can think of is to get an ethernet card and decent length of cat5 cable (shouldn't cost much) and network them together. As long as ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) is disabled on the WinXP machine then the Win95 machine will still have no access to or from the internet. The downside is that you'd need to be extra careful to ensure the WinXP machine remains free from virus infections or trojans that could compromise the security of having the WinXP machine act as a barrier between Win95 and the internet.

Edited August 5, 2005 by Wheelman

[Wolf68k]

Ok since everyone seems to offering up the 95<->XP networking suggestion let me make this suggestion that kind of goes along with that.

 

Warning it sounds strange but personally I feel it's safer and easier to set up, more so for what little/minor use you plan to do with it. But if any of it confusing let me know and I'll try to explain it better.

 

Download a FTP server program, I suggest FileZilla Server it's free (open source) and easy to use and it does work on XP (it's what I use) and it should work on Win95.

 

I don't know how your internet conenction is set up, whether you're going from modem->PC/XP or modem->router->PC/XP.

If you're doing the first (modem->PC/XP) then I would suggest installing the server onto the 95 machine.

If you're doing the second with the router in between, then you could install the server on either machine but for added security installing on the 95 machine is the better idea since it's not connected to the internet.

 

On the other machine use a FTP client, here again I suggest FileZilla but this time the client and of course like the server it too is free and easy to use.

 

After getting it installed you need to create an account. I won't go into length on how to do that (this post will be long winded enough as it is) but you can read the Help and it should help walk your through it.

When creating the account you'll have to tell it what folder to allow the client to access, basicly what folder to share. Point it to a set folder, don't tell it C:\ and that's it...not a good idea even if the 2 systems were only connected head-to-head with no internet connection even to the house.

 

 

As Wheelman said if you connect them together using a second ethernet card in the XP machine and a piece of CAT5, however you only need the second ethernet card if the XP and 95 are going to be connected directly to each other (aka: head-to-head) because you're using internet connection method 1 in which case you'll also need to use a crossover cable.

If you're using internet connection method 2, then you just need an ethernet card in the 95 machine (of course) and a standard patch cable of CAT5 and connect the 95 machine to the router.

But also like Wheelman said (and going with connection method 1) make sure ICS is not enabled.

 

Now you just need to know what the LAN IP address is of the computer running the FTP server.

If it's the 95 machine, go to Start->Run and type winipcfg and you'll get something like this:

Select your ethernet card from the drop menu then write down the IP address.

 

If it's the XP machine then Start->Run and type cmd to bring up the command line window.

In the command line type ipconfig -all and you'll get something like this:

Again look for the IP address line and write down the IP address.

Or you can get a WinNT IP config program (direct download from Microsoft) which will get you a program exactly like the one shown above for Win95/98/ME. After it's installed look in C:\Program Files\Resource Kit\wntipcfg.exe You can also copy the wntipcfg.exe to the C:\Windows\ folder then from now you can go to Start->Run type wntipcfg and it'll run that way.

 

 

Ok now take the server's IP address you've witten down to the client machine and enter it in along with the account user name and password you created within the FTP server and connect. Now you can see the default directory you set for that account and it's files.

And you can just upload and download the files at will.

 

I know this sounds complex, and like I said before very strange, however think about this. If at any time you fear there is a security program, just exit the server program and you're just as secure again.

 

The other upside to this is that although it sounds complex, I personally found it much faster and easier to set up and ready to use compared to trying to set up the normal method.

Keep in mind the normal method is doing by enabling File Sharing. Then you have to use Network Neighborhood to get the 2 machines to see each other. I've tried doing this a few times, and I pulled out a lot of hair before I finally got it to work and that was only 2 or 3 times out of maybe 10. Everything has to work just right. Even if I later disabled File Sharing on the machines for whatever reason, I still didn't feel as secure as I did before I turned it on and went through all the BS just to try to get it to work.

 

 

There are other programs that you can use to do the same idea as the FTP example I showed you, and they too are also just as easy to use. I just prefer the FTP system because you can use a FTP client or a web browser to connect to it, where as with the other programs you have to use their client (or client clones) to connect to its server.

[BenMillard]

 

I don't want to network the PCs together because the downstairs computer has to be isolated from the internet as much as possible to protect it, since it has all my parent's business accounts on it.  It has never had the internet connected to it, lucky thing.

Security is of paramount concern, especially since our old version of Windows 95 will have very little protection against any attacks. Running a server, a firewall and anti-virus software on it would take up a significant amount of resources. It's only a P100 and I run Visual Studio 6 on it, test my websites in IE5 and test the speed of the programs I make. For example, testing my TextStudio program when it opens hundreds of files at once and testing CFG Studio when it has to parse ten thousand items of data out of complex ASCII text file formats.

 

I test on a slow PC to get a better understanding of what parts of my programs are slow but I need the design environment to run well. I put 64MB of memory in it and once everything has loaded it's bearable. Adding a bunch of other services to it could ruin that, though?

 

 

Therefore, some sort of portable media would enable the occassional, small data transfer required for when I move the programs and data files (normally under 1MB) between the computers. CD/RW was something I considered as a replacement to the current CD drive, since it does not support CD/R or CD/RW discs which severely limits what I can do with it. However, USB would be faster and more conveniant and can still store quite a lot of data, so either solution could apply.

 

 

Wheels, cheers for clearing up the fan size stuff. I'm not sure if my parents would allow me to slice up the case but my dad is a structural metalworker, so we've got all the kit to do it properly. For the time being, just replacing the knackered CPU fan is the priority sound-wise. If we can figure out a decent data transfer solution, it won't matter that this PC is still a bit loud because I can just move my work to the one downstairs and use that at night.

 

Many thanks to all those helping me out with this, since i r teh hardware n00b.

Edited October 28, 2005 by Cerbera

[Wolf68k]

I completely understand that you don't want to network them.

Running the FTP server and doing a psudo network like what I was talking about is extemely easy to turn on and off at will, just shut down the FTP server program and it's done.

As for the resources, the FTP server is only using resourses while it's in use. The memory size is small, maybe no more than 5MB but don't quote me on that. But you can also run the server on the XP machine if you wish and only need to use a FTP client or even IE on the 95 box when you need to....yes with IE you can connect to a FTP to not only download but also upload files to a FTP server.

 

But like I said, the only reason I brought it up was to show you there is way to do what little file sharing you need to do without using Window File Sharing.

[Wheelman]

Security is of paramount concern, especially since our old version of Windows 95 will have very little protection against any attacks.

 

Therefore, some sort of portable media would enable the occassional, small data transfer required for when I move the programs and data files (normally under 1MB) between the computers. CD/RW was something I considered as a replacement to the current CD drive, since it does not support CD/R or CD/RW discs which severely limits what I can do with it. However, USB would be faster and more conveniant and can still store quite a lot of data, so either solution could apply.

 

Wheels, cheers for clearing up the fan size stuff. I'm not sure if my parents would allow me to slice up the case but my dad is a structural metalworker, so we've got all the kit to do it properly. For the time being, just replacing the knackered CPU fan is the priority sound-wise. If we can figure out a decent data transfer solution, it won't matter that this PC is still a bit loud because I can just move my work to the one downstairs and use that at night.

Sure thing, as I said networking them has a downside, although bear in mind that just because Win95 is hooked up to WinXP doesn't mean that Win95 is in contact with the internet.

 

So when it comes to portable storage, USB isn't an option on Win95. But since you mention that you need less than 1MB of storage... why not just replace the dodgy floppy drive on the WinXP machine? Would only cost £7 or £8 or suchlike. It's perfectly straightforward - unplug and unscrew old one, slot in and attach new one, fire up Windows.

 

As for the fans, if you're happy to strip your case down to drill bits out then cool, but bear in mind the case has to be empty. Computer components tend not to like being covered in metal filings.

 

For an older Socket A processor (i.e. your Athlon - at least I'm assuming it's socket A) i'd almost certainly confirm wolf's suggestion of a Zalman cooler - specifically this or this one.

[Wolf68k]

Personally I like the first one that Wheelman listed, the CNPS7000.

 

 

Just wondering is there any possiblity you can back up the file on the Win95 machine incase you got ahold of a copy of Win98 or something else that does support USB?

[segosa]

The burning question: do people really care that much about your parents' accounts that they will go through elaborate lengths to find out your home IP address, work out how your home network is set up, hack your windows XP box which is not as easy as you think, then use it to hack the Windows 95 one it is networked to?

Edited August 5, 2005 by Segosa

[maelstrom]

depends if they are insecure, check out these I just googled "security check"

 

http://security.symantec.com/sscv6/default...id=ie&venid=sym

http://bcheck.scanit.be/bcheck/

http://www.sdesign.com/securitytest/

 

 

Or if you have a linu box or bootable knoppix handy...

 

 

nmap -v -sS n {target host IP address}

 

for a quick snan

[BenMillard]

 

The burning question: do people really care that much about your parents' accounts that they will go through elaborate lengths to find out your home IP address, work out how your home network is set up, hack your windows XP box which is not as easy as you think, then use it to hack the Windows 95 one it is networked to?

Oh, I don't seriously expect people to be directly attempting to read our accounting documents. My worry is about generic viruses, worms, trojans and suchlike infecting the old machine since it contains so much sensitive material. And it's slow enough as it is without a load of spyware running in the background, poor thing.

 

 

Wheels, cheers for the links. The first one looks like it should support this Athlon 1400 CPU just fine. Why are so many companies allergic to telling their customers what the price is? Even the RRP would be helpful. There's no direct link to the product on one of their retailer sites, either, so customers have to trek around the Web trying to find the product on two sites instead of one. And why do ALL computing companies have such badly made websites? It's source code looks like like the result of a keyboard going haywire while Notepad was open. And their UK retailer's store is even worse!

 

However, the product itself seems excellent and the installation movie is superb (ame can't be said for the Javascript popup it loads up in). £30 isn't too much to ask for it, imho. Will probably wait until my parents get back from holiday next week before actually buying it, though. Could I get it delivered here cheaper elsewhere?

 

Wolf, I thought Win98 was rather unstable? There's also the question of whether it would run on a P100 and if it did, whether it would be a lot slower than Win95. The CD/RW idea is looking fairly attractive since it would allow me to create permanent backups of the documents and data on it. Hmm...

[BenMillard]

Rather a large bump but I still havn't gotten this resolved. My dad won't let me buy posh new fans for the PC. It's now gotten to the point where it makes a death squeal and promptly dies, with the internal speaker squealing. I presume this is from temperature spikes which the fans aren't able to handle, so it stops all operations to prevent heat damage? It isn't my PC, it's my parents' PC, so I can't just get the fans anyway.

 

Could the squeal be from anything else? Are the worn-out fans the most likely cause? There is a fan on the CPU and a small one underneath one of the circuit boards (maybe the graphics card, I don't know lol), both seem to be worn out. The case fan seems alright, though.

 

(EDIT) The PC is very slow on startup and the floppy disc drifve has not worked for some time. About two years ago the PC had new memory cards fitted because the old memory messed up.

Edited October 7, 2005 by Cerbera

[Wolf68k]

Pardon me for wanting to go back over old pre-answered questions.

The fan in question; case or CPU? If it's the CPU just tell your dad that loud squeals from the CPU fan is a very bad thing, to the point were it means slower fan speeds which of course means less cooling which mean more heat from the CPU itself which mean CPU is gonna fry.

 

New CPU $100US. New heatsink&fan for CPU $20-30US.

Which would you rather pay for?

 

 

If it's the case fan, just go out yourself and buy some case fan usually no more than $5US and replace it yourself and you're done and he'll never know the difference.

[Cerbera'sMum]

Would the Akasa Ultra Quiet AMD Athlon XP Socket A cooler up to 3400+ be any good as a replacement fan thingy? (I know I'm even more technically challenged than Cerbera so any help much appreciated! )I know it's much cheaper than what you've been suggesting (£10.50 inc VAT)

 

I can't find much about Zalman over here but then I've not looked too hard!

[muppetmaster]

It's possible your computer has been possessed by an evil spirit. Hire an exorcist now.

 

Alternatively, try checking currently running services with the "services.msc" run command and the "msconfig" command and see if there are any in excess.

 

I recommend using good old fashioned parallel cables.

[Wolf68k]

Would the Akasa Ultra Quiet AMD Athlon XP Socket A cooler up to 3400+ be any good as a replacement fan thingy? (I know I'm even more technically challenged than Cerbera so any help much appreciated! )I know it's much cheaper than what you've been suggesting (£10.50 inc VAT)

 

I can't find much about Zalman over here but then I've not looked too hard!

If you can give me the exact model number I can try to look something up.

Or if you can give me a web site(s) of where you plan to shop from, I'll have a look to see what they have. In which I would also need to know your budget, using whatever the web site would be using.

 

 

 

@muppetmaster

I had to read that 3 or 4 times make sure I fully understood it....your choice of font and the size didn't help.

While I completely understand what you're trying to say, it doesn't help at all.

They have no idea what they would be looking at when they looked at the Service Manager or MSconfig, so they would have even less of an idea if anything is in there that shouldn't be.

You might. I know I would, not that I still wouldn't double check myself. Cerbera and Cerbera'sMom would have no clue.

 

If you're going to give help like that, that is really something technical, then you need to include details. However this is were programs like Ad-Aware, Spybot and HijackThis comes in.

 

The problem is all of this is, none of it would solve the problem of a case of CPU fan from squealing and possibly dying. And it surely won't fix the problem with transfering files the way things are in their house.

The slow PC he is talking about (if I read it right) does't access the net and is running Win95 (which makes the services.msc suggestion useless). I doubt it's a spyware or a virus problem. The problem is simply that it's really old system and it's running Win95.

[Cerbera'sMum]

If you can give me the exact model number I can try to look something up.

Or if you can give me a web site(s) of where you plan to shop from, I'll have a look to see what they have. In which I would also need to know your budget, using whatever the web site would be using.

 

 

 

 

Hi wolf I was looking at "Lowestonweb.com" which is related to Evesham.com where the XP computer came from. I checked it against compatability with Asus A7A266 Socket A motherboard and it says compatible as long as mounting holes available - which I don't know as the insides are of a computer are beyond me!

 

I know Cerbera wants to have the computer when we upgrade to a new business computer but as he's driving me mad when he comes down swearing because the computer's squealed at him and frozen, I was maybe looking for a cheap fix!

 

We were looking at replacing this computer with a more modern evesham.com computer (I happen to like them!)..We'd like a 19" TFT monitor with it and wondered if there were any recommendations ...probably looking for Athlon version about £1500 VAT inclusive with a Firewire card...anyone like to offer a solution?

 

Cerbera told me to come and ask about specs (for computer my glasses are ok) here as we like to have fairly new system for 3 years and then think about replacing it once the warranty runs out!

[BenMillard]

It looks like my earlier post didn't make the problem fully clear. The squeal is a sound being made by the internal speaker, not from the fans themselves (although they do squeak a bit sometimes). What happens is I'll be working on the PC normally, when suddenly the internal speaker starts making this loud, high-pitched tone and the computer goes extremely slow. After a few seconds it completely stops responding; the cursor doesn't even move. I have to turn the PC off by holding down the power button of the tower for several seconds.

 

I'm pretty sure this is because of the fans, as they make even more noise than usual before the PC crashes.

 

The current heat sink on the CPU is extremely basic and the fan is very small. This means the fan has to spin really fast. The setup screen you can access as the PC starts normally says the CPU fan is spinning over 4,000rpm so it's not much of a surprise that it's finally worn out!

 

I think that the Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu as suggested by Wheelman and Wolf earlier on would be a good replacement. The heat sink is a much more sophisticated design which has many times more surface area, so the heat from the CPU gets transferred to the air much more easily. The fan is a much larger diameter, is much deeper and has a greater pitch on its blades so a lot more air is moved at much lower speeds. It also uses copper for the fins which is a highly conductive material; the current heat sink just seems to be a common steel which isn't so good.

 

Obviously we would have to check the dimensions to make sure it would actually fit before we got it, but I think it would do the job very well..

 

I recently bought a new mouse for this machine since the replacement we got earlier in the year turned out to be a bit rubbish (it only cost about £5 from an Asian manufacturer). I decided to go for a mouse which cost more like £40 from a "known" manufacture (Logitech) and went for a sophisticted optical mouse instead of a normal ball mouse. The new mouse seems fairly popular with my parents, so it seems I can make fairly good choices about these things because I don't mind spending more money to get something which is a lot better.

 

The optical mouse was more money but the mouse is an important device and this one is a lot better. Similarly, this Zalman fan is more money but the cooling of a PC is very important and this one is a lot better.

 

 

I don't think it is just the CPU fan which is worn out, though. There is a very small fan underneath a circuit board which also seems rather loose and worn out. Anyone know what this fan is for and whether you can get replacements for them? Is it the graphics card?

 

 

(EDIT) The motherboard is an Asus A7A266, Socket A, as my mum said. The processor is an AMD Athlon 1400, but we can't find out exactly what type. The graphics card is a 64MB nVidia GeForce 3 ti200.

Edited October 8, 2005 by Cerbera

[Wolf68k]

Oh ok, the speaker is what is making the noise.

 

For me the only time I've seen this personally was because my PSU was being over worked from more power hungry parts. Although instead of slowing down it just flat out locked up.

So it could be the PSU. Try disconnected thing but the HDD; disconnect the case fans, CD/DVD drives, floppy drive, if you have 2 HDDs then disconnect the slave, if you have any extra cards that are not 100% required remove those (sound, dial-up modem, network/ethernet, capture/tv tuner, and so on...video is the only one that would be required). Run the system for a bit now and see how things go.

I'm going to assume for a second that currently the system is doing this after about the same amount of time it's being used. If this is the case and you do what I say above and the system stays running longer but still acts up the same way or better still it doesn't act up, then I would have to say it is the PSU either because it's slowly dying or because something was added to aid in sucking more power...it's more likely just it's age and it's dying.

 

 

 

Yes the main thing to worry about with the Zalman is to find out what the top end diameter of it is and then measure side your case to make sure you have enough clearance. It's ok if there is enough room for a few peices of paper to pass between the Zalman and whatever as long as the 'whatever' doesn't make it's on vibration that could cause it to contact the HSF.

 

 

 

 

The processor is an AMD Athlon 1400, but we can't find out exactly what type.

What do you mean 'what type'? You mean if it's Duron or Thunderbird? Because that's all that mobo supports, according to this review (and also the PDF manual I fianlly found). If you use CPU-Z it should tell you, as should Everest Home Edition.

 

 

 

 

I don't think it is just the CPU fan which is worn out, though. There is a very small fan underneath a circuit board which also seems rather loose and worn out. Anyone know what this fan is for and whether you can get replacements for them? Is it the graphics card?

I would need a pic to be able to understand better. But it does sound like it could be for the GFX card.

 

 

 

@Mom

It sounds like you're talking about this one from Evesham; it's the only one under £2,000 and comes with a 19" LCD.

But for the fact it doesn't make any mention of what graphics card used, although for a business machine that should matter too much, that is damn nice system. Judging from the 2 system above it, this one sounds like it would still make a nice gaming system as well.

[BenMillard]

Wolf, is disconnecting all that stuff really necessary? This is a totally standard system from Evesham, only one HDD, pretty unremarkable really. We havn't added any hardware to it apart from a USB scanner and USB printer, which have their own power supplies and have been fine for ages. Considering the gentle grinding noises being made by the fans, I think it's more likely to be them than the Power Supply Unit. Yes, I did have to look up what PSU stood for.

 

I will take a picture of the computer's insides tomorrow, probably in the morning so it will have decent natural light. Thanks a lot for your continued help, it's greatly appreciated.

[Wolf68k]

Well the idea is to see if too much power is being drawn from the PSU, so by removing things that aren't need to be able to use the system we can see if the PSU is really at fault. Keep in mind this is all guess work. Hell as far as I know the mobo could be dying which can also cause various strange things to happen.

 

With some nameless brand PSUs not only is their rating really much less than what they say it's rated for but also they usually start to wear out faster and that rating gets less and less.

 

Going to lowestonweb.com they have a few PSUs and I'm sure one of them will work, but since I've never even heard of those brands I can't suggest one to you. Normally I would suggest something like Antec or Thermaltake.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I did have to look up what PSU stood for

Sorry about that. Force of habit.

GFX means graphic just incase you missed that one as well

[Cerbera'sMum]

@Mom

It sounds like you're talking about this one from Evesham; it's the only one under £2,000 and comes with a 19" LCD.

But for the fact it doesn't make any mention of what graphics card used, although for a business machine that should matter too much, that is damn nice system. Judging from the 2 system above it, this one sounds like it would still make a nice gaming system as well.

This one was actually the one I was thinking of but with a 19" monitor...originally cos in the brochure it's sposed to have a Firewire card which we use for something ... and it would have to have 3 year Platinum warranty of course!

 

It's got 256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7800GT PCI-E graphics - how crucial is the "ms" of the monitor? Would the 19" Sony or the 19" Viewsonic be better?

 

Sorry to hijack Cerb's thread but I'm curious. Also the sooner we replace this computer, then the sooner Cerb can "play" with it!

[Wolf68k]

Well that system is even better. The only difference, beisdes the monitor as listed, is a better/faster CPU and assumingly a better graphics card.

 

The 'ms' I believe you're talking about is the 'Response Time'. Yes this matter, the lower the number the better the refresh rate.

As for which is better between Sony and Viewsonic for LCD monitors, I really couldn't tell you that one way or the other. My gut would say Sony. I would to a review search on the models you are looking at and hope that something comes up.

 

 

You didn't hijack anything. It's your topic just as much as his because everything concerns you both.

But you're right, give half the chance I'm sure he'll be playing with it more than you.

[BenMillard]

I switched off the PC and took some pictures of the inside, including this secret fan. The case fan which you can see at the back of some pictures is 80mm, which should give some idea of scale. If I was smart I would have placed a ruler in the pictures.

 

Overview of the case:

1024 x 768, 104kB.

 

Close-up of the motherboard area:

1024 x 768, 159kB.

 

Close-up of the small, hidden fan:

1024 x 768, 94.6kB.

 

The last one is a bit fuzzy because there's too much case in the shot, so the auto-focus set itself up for that. Those blue fins in the foreground are in a ring around around the little fan, underneath the circuit board. Hopefully this will help the identification of what it is, as well as whether there would be space for the Zalman heat sink.

 

 

(EDIT) With the help of an online friend, I've gathered some more information. Using the Everest Home tool, I have found that the motherboard temperature is about 32C and the CPU is running between 70C and 80C! Clearly the fan is not doing anywhere near enough because CPUs should normally run at more like 40C, so I am told. The "Cooling Fans" monitor of this program says the CPU fan is spinning between 1850 and 2900, so I think it's really had it.

 

Because I would like to run this PC at night if it becomes mine, going for a quieter system than the current fan and heat sink would be a good idea, imho.

Edited October 9, 2005 by Cerbera

[anus]

The 'secret' fan you posted in your third picture is the graphics card's fan.

 

And 70-80 celcius is really hot for a CPU to run in and I'm not surprised that it locks-up so often, if it spins at 1850 and 2900 RPM and the fan's original speed is higher than that, the fan is busted or is not receiving power properly.

 

A PC is happy when it runs at 40-60 celcius.

 

There are replacements for fans in the VGA cards. You should probably get one as you said it's worn out because it might screw up the card forever from overheating.

 

Test the powersupply by taking it to a PC shop and they have 'tester' things to test the PSU's output power.

 

It could also be going slow due to the lack of oil in the oil wells in the fans, that happened to me once. Just get your PC to a PC shop and tell 'em to put in some oil in the fans.

 

Good luck !

Edited October 9, 2005 by Warlord.

[Wolf68k]

Warlord pretty much covered it all. I just wanted to say...

 

70-80C??!! Danger...Danger, Will Robertson! (ask mom if you don't get that reference).

Not a good thing, or even close to it. An AMD fries at around 90C.

 

The Zalman looks like it could fit in there, but quote me and take messurments to make sure of course. There are of course other after market CPU coolers that can get the job done.

 

I found a cheap Zalman but it's the aluminum and copper mix one, which will still do far better job than the crappy stock one. It's about £19 though.

 

I did look at the Akasa that mom was talking about before, made easier once I knew exactly which one she was talking about. Now I'm not going to say it'll do as good as the Zalman but I'm sure you'll see a huge improvement over what you've got. It does have an interesting design though.

 

[BenMillard]

(Posting from the local library.)

 

We've got a cheap Asaka fan for the time being just to get the thing up and running. Hopefully we can fit it without wrecking everything which is there and then I can browse the Web again with a decent PC instead of these 800x600 screens.

 

However, it has reminded me of how well my Conventional skins perform on crappy computers.