Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. PC
      2. Gameplay
      3. Missions
      4. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
      4. Frontier Pursuits
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. DLC
      2. Find Lobbies & Players
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Vehicles
      5. Content Creator
      6. Help & Support
      7. The Diamond Casino Heist
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA 6

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA IV Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA SA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA VC Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA III Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

Sign in to follow this  
tehhunter

ProtestWarrior

Recommended Posts

tehhunter

 

Why ProtestWarrior is Embarrassing to Itself

Hello, everyone. I recently embarked on an adventure over at ProtestWarrior.com, a radical right wing group, to try and gain perspective on how they view (and demonize) everyone else.

 

1: About ProtestWarrior

For starters, lets examine what ProtestWarrior is all about. It is a website centered around breaking up protests by anyone else. That means that if people with different views are having a protest somewhere, they send out people to go and create a ruckus, and hopefully break up the protest. The site has been around for a number of years, and according to it they have "successfully broken up many protests." They have the right to these protests, that is not why I created this thread. I will get to that later.

 

So, as some of you may well know, I was a year or two back involved with a site called HackThisSite.org, where I was an administrator. I made many friends there, including the owner of the site, Xec96. He is a radical anarchist liberal, though I am just a tiny bit flaming liberal. We became fast friends and even though we differed in political views, we had mutual respect (and lengthy IRC debates on politics). We even met up in real life, in my basement one night (during last years Washington D.C. protests against the world bank). Eventually I just stopped caring about the internet, and voila, here I am now.

 

So recently during the summer I decided I should check in with them. I logged onto mIRC to find something that I couldn't believe. Apparently, the FBI had raided my friend Xec96 (Jeremy) for (as ProtestWarrior states in their news) "[leading] a group of politically-motivated 'Hacktivists' to [...] upload malicious files that gave them the ability to execute commands on the server." I was shell-shocked. Jeremy was a good kid, who just had different philosophies about government and human rights. I logged onto AIM to talk to him and see what happened. Apparently, he had found an exploit in their server that gave him access to use pretty much any command he wanted. However, unlike ProtestWarrior's Report, he did not steal any credit cards, user details, or damage the site at all. The FBI was unable to detain/arrest him because they lacked any evidence, and such they took all of his electrical equipment instead and are (apparently) planning on inditing him for mega-online fraud anyways.

 

I decided I should start looking around ProtestWarrior and get to know the exact kind of people the site harbored. I signed up on their forums under my old name from HackThisSite, "AciD". I then proceeded to go into their forum "The Enemy" which is all about right wingers discussing "Noam Chomsky deconstructed", "How would you assassinate Ward Churchill", and my favorite topic title, "screw liberals with their ass spelunking panties". No, I didn't just pick and choose for the sake of debate. Go there and see for yourself. So anyways, I decided to start refuting, rebuttling, and everything else inbetween. I started getting replies and noticing a pattern pretty regularly...

 

 

2: Quotes from ProtestWarrior's Forums

 

here

Well if it doesnt' apply to you then f*ck off. But you just re-itterated that liberals have no stance except for "anyone but Bush." [...] Oh and you still lost, long hair or not. And you still were dumb enough to vote for Kerry. So go get your shoeshine box.

 

here

Because he lost . . . dumbass.

 

here

Oh my insulting must automatically equate to a bad quality, rather than the fact that you have no arguement and just spout drivel. The glory of the internet - I can say what the f*ck i want and you can take it like a bitch. Laughing

 

here

You are a dumb liberal fa**ot who needs to be beated about the face with an axe handle. Take your garbage elsewhere you worthless douchebag. Go suck on Maddox's cock some more so that you can taste some more of your sh*t.

You are a tool.

 

here

Read what my nation's founders actually said, wrote and FOUGHT A WAR FOR! There is ample evidence there to completely make NULL AND VOID the LIBERAL LIES you just belched forth!

Also, for many more links, books, tapes...to support the veracity of every word I posted on page one, post one here, go to PAGE ONE, POST ONE, of the following llink; it will provide you with some 40"+" links that utterly demolish your vain lib lies.

 

The link:

http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic....9211780#9211780

 

REMEMBER: go to page one, post one.

 

also check out:

http://www.LiberalScum.com

 

here

Its scary what these liberals/communists really think.

 

Its just a shame more people dont know it. We need to get the word out!

 

here

Once again, Michael Savage's message rings true. I know I've said this a lot, but it bears repeating:

 

"Liberalism is not a political philosphy. It is a mental disorder."

 

These filthy marxist animals would love to see America and all of Western civilization down. They would gladly take part in the wholesale slaughter of white Christians, if they thought they could get away with it.

 

here

That just shows how liberals are the most intolerant and racist people out therem they have no right throwing those words at conservatives.

 

here

After reading this thread, I don't think there's any doubt that the left is totally evil. We have to stop them.

 

here

[...] Liberals don't base their beliefs on physical evidence, written history, or logical reason, so it doesn't help to provide examples of evidence, history, or reason to rebut their remarks. Their beliefs are based on Blind Faith. [...]

And lastly my favorite. In response to this quote:

 

here

 

They really are the enemy. This country is in an ideological war.
How ironic that I said the very same thing not too long ago. But I was referring to the far-right conservatives.

The Site Admin "Alan" replied:

 

here

Well Brian, I guess that makes you our enemy. Your sick ideology butchered over a hundred million people last century, God only knows what you've got planned for the next one.

So I feel pretty confident now that I've proven just the type of hate-filled site that this is, so I'll move on to my personal reasons for hating them. In the thread discussing the news of "Hacker Caught" (My friend Jeremy), some people had this to say:

 

3: ProtestWarrior on Jeremy (Xec96)

 

here

 

If we're gonna do that, send it to me. I loved that show and I will need it to experience some good ol' prison ass-rape, he won't  lol.gif

 

Oh yes, that's right, I forgot.

 

You don't get to experience rape, because you always give your consent.

 

here

An "armed to the teeth" liberal is an oxymoron. So shut up and go listen to some more Rage while you cream your pants to fantasies of overthrowing the government while simutaneously being too much of a chickensh*t to do a goddamn thing.

 

here

No one cares what you think dipsh*t, so do the world a favor and crawl back into your Cybercafe and drink your sh*tty Latte.

I could easily go on and on with more graphic quotes (e.g. quite a quantity of 'anal rape by bubba' cracks (no pun intended)).

 

4: Proving Jeremy's Innocence

I am in the lucky observational position of being a staff member of Jeremy's site, and of being one of his better friends. I got to know him alot, on the internet and in person. He is an anarchist, yes. He, however, is not a thief, nor would he even know how to pull off mass fraud. Until I made an article on HackThisSite about PHP Injection, he didn't know a bit of hacking at all (Which as he often commented to me, was quite ironic).

 

However, I do not expect you to believe this off my word; that would be baseless/backless. On FreeJeremy.org, it says the following concerning the FBI raiding Jeremy's Unversity of Chicago apartment:

 

On March 17 2005, nine Chicago FBI agents raided and seized all electronic equipment in Jeremy Hammond's apartment. Facing intimidation from both the FBI and the Secret Service, he is being accused of hacking into right-wing website ProtestWarrior.com. While the website had not been damaged and no credit cards were billed, the FBI is threatening to charge him with unauthorized access and credit card fraud totalling to millions of dollars in damages and up to thirty years in federal prison for a crime that hasn't even happened.
If you read this carefully, as Jeremy himself pointed out, you will notice that the FBI did not apprehend him or arrest him. They raided his apartment and searched for data relating to the supposed 'stolen credit card' information. However, they came up empty handed, and were unable to apprehend him. This proves, in part, he is innocent of the charges placed against him.

 

5: Conclusion

ProtestWarrior is a hateful site; It preaches it's rhetoric of "people with dissenting opinions are treasonous and inferior" to a mass of politically-empty right wing conservatives. I tried through many, many posts to have a civilized debate (Search their site for my username, AciD, and read my post/the responses if you don't believe me), only to be let down by a series of "Ad Hominem" personal attacks such as "Liberal", "Treasonous Lib", etc, and numerous right wing catch phrases such as "Right or Wrong sides".

 

It is an almost militant site that encourages blind hatred of dissenting opinions. As we all know, Blind hatred hinders reasoning, and ignorance is bliss. Both are commonly found both on their site and forums.

 

I would like you to discuss your impressions, experiences, run-ins, etc of ProtestWarrior here so that we can have a civilized debate without the need for their petty personal attacks. If you read that entire thing, Kudos to you. You have broadened your understanding.

 

Note: If you feel I gave a bad impression of ProtestWarrior, please show me where and tell how I mislabeled them.

 

Note #2: I could not figure out how to make links in the quote header. If someone would be kind enough to pm me a code sample, it would greatly be appreciated.

Edited by tehhunter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mortukai

Whilst I agree with your assessment of that site, and whilst I disagree strongly with all of the bulsh*t spewed all over that site, I still think that they have every right to say what they do. Thus I do not think they should be banned from the internet. After all, stupidity isn't a crime, it's an ideology.

 

Also, that sucks about your friend. Your country is really messed up huh. That damn patriot act means you have pretty much zero legal recourse against any charges the FBI wants to throw at him, and they can legally make him disappear without even levelling any official charges at him, with no chance for a trial, ever.

 

Oh well. That's the US legal and political system for ya. If sh!t like that ever happend in Australia, I'd be in Canada/Switzerland/Finland within a month.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tehhunter
Whilst I agree with your assessment of that site, and whilst I disagree strongly with all of the bulsh*t spewed all over that site, I still think that they have every right to say what they do. Thus I do not think they should be banned from the internet. After all, stupidity isn't a crime, it's an ideology.

 

Also, that sucks about your friend. Your country is really messed up huh. That damn patriot act means you have pretty much zero legal recourse against any charges the FBI wants to throw at him, and they can legally make him disappear without even levelling any official charges at him, with no chance for a trial, ever.

 

Oh well. That's the US legal and political system for ya. If sh!t like that ever happend in Australia, I'd be in Canada/Switzerland/Finland within a month.

The legal system of America has its ups and its downs... primarily downs though for legal rights.

 

The cops apparently were acting under the patriot act as they couldn't get a warrant without real evidence, evidence that they failed to find at Jeremy's apartment.

 

I'll ask him about it sometime and ask him to come by and say a few words.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Svip

Hack? Your friend did indeed not hack. I have done what he have done lots of times. Though instead, I noticed the user of his flaw.

 

But mainly, what I use is an exploit in their PHP coding. I don't delete any of their stuff, don't worry, I just contact them, saying there is a flaw in their system.

 

I haven't done it much though, only a few times. But I know how to do it, and how it is done.

 

But you wouldn't assosiate it with hacking, cause it's just using an exploit in PHP.

 

However, I must admit, tehhunter, you haven't quite clearly told me what he did.

 

Note: I am sorry if you have, or if I have been able to find out with one of your links.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
just another thug

With a right-wing government come right-wing sympathizers and a right-wing agenda. Sorry to say but at this moment your friend seems to be in a deep hole. I guess if you can keep spreading information and have enough support then they will not be able to make Jeremy "dissapear" (which I doubt would happen). To me it looks like Jeremy will have a light prison sentance (for his "hacking") and no fines (since he did not use the credit-card numbers).

 

It is unfair though that the FBI was able to do seize his belongings and raid his house. I, for one, was never a supporter of the patriot act. Under it the government has the ability to install cameras, taps, audio recorders and other intrusions on your property without just cause. That means they could plant one above you bed and watch you masterbate (sick thought isn't it?). This treatment has been reserved for Arab-Americans for the most part, which is why there isn't much oposition. I mean the Arabs are all terrorists so they should be subjected to this (sarcasm).

 

Finally, I scoped out ProtestWarrior a little bit and I see nothing wrong with it. If it was to be shut-down then it would be going against their constitutional right. I may not like the site (because as they say I'm a "filthy marxist animals would love to see America and all of Western civilization down") but they do have a right to say what they want to say. What I think should be banned is their interfering with protest, since that is also a right of citizens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tehhunter
Finally, I scoped out ProtestWarrior a little bit and I see nothing wrong with it. If it was to be shut-down then it would be going against their constitutional right. I may not like the site (because as they say I'm a "filthy marxist animals would love to see America and all of Western civilization down") but they do have a right to say what they want to say. What I think should be banned is their interfering with protest, since that is also a right of citizens.

I do not think it is their constitutional right to spread propaganda that harms another human being. That's just ludicrous. Jeremy is a real person with unique traits. However, to them, he is a credit-card snatching site-destroying hacker that was caught early.

 

And yes, their "We don't have the numbers for a real protest so lets go try to break up someone elses" is a tired tirade. Give it up, already.

 

@Svip: I am not sure exactly what exploit he used. I'll have to ask him (I didn't think it was critical to the story).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
just another thug
I do not think it is their constitutional right to spread propaganda that harms another human being. That's just ludicrous. Jeremy is a real person with unique traits. However, to them, he is a credit-card snatching site-destroying hacker that was caught early.

 

In all fairness it is "their side of the story." If they are infact lying (which I do not know because of a lack of research) then they will face criminal offenses, which they will rightfully deserve. As for Jeremy, he is innocent until proven guilty so it would be wrong for ProtestWarrior to spread this "propaganda."

 

I wish Jeremy the best of luck, but shutting down their site is a violation of their rights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ISuck

Ok, I've been hanging around Protest Warrior for around a year now. Never been to a rally or anything, but I'm always on the forums and have a general sense of all of the people there and am always updated on the latest news. When I saw this topic, I knew exactly what it was about. Protest Warrior is comprised of all different types of individuals from the right, the forums and the members include libertarians, anarcho capitalists, neo-conservatives, constitutionalists, classical liberals, paleo-conservatives, and an array of others from the left as well. So I'll go through this post and tell you the arguement from one who truly knows ProtestWarrior and what it's about.

 

 

1: About ProtestWarrior

    For starters, lets examine what ProtestWarrior is all about. It is a website centered around breaking up protests by anyone else.

 

ProtestWarrior is a group of right wingers who feel the need to represent the right wing at rallies. Whether they be counter inaugurals or anti-war rallies, protestwarrior is there protesting the left. This is perfectly constitutional and should not be looked down upon in any way

 

 

That means that if people with different views are having a protest somewhere, they send out people to go and create a ruckus, and hopefully break up the protest. The site has been around for a number of years, and according to it they have "successfully broken up many protests." They have the right to these protests, that is not why I created this thread. I will get to that later.

 

Like you said, they have a right to protest. BUT, their intention is not to "create a ruckus". In protestwarrior rallies, they exercise their right to peaceable assembly, they do not taunt left wingers. Sometimes they cahllenge them to debates nicely, usually the New Leftists reject. Most of the time protestwarriors are attacked for doing absolutely nothing. Watch some of their videos to see. The treatment they recieve from "peace protesters" is amazing. To your surprise, Im sure, these peace protesters are some of the most violent people you'll ever see. ProtestWarriors are repeatedly attacked, their signs ripped, and sometimes physically beaten for practicing their constitutional right. All of ProtestWarrior assemblies are perfectly legal and obtain permits when permits are needed. A good example of this is during the inauguration of Bush when ProtestWarrior set up a rally to support Bush in the midst of the entire counter-inaugural protest. They obtained a permit and were alloted an area to protest. They were met by anarchists who were with the New Left crowd(I know, I don't get it either, apparently the new thing to do is ask for total government regulation and call yourself an anarchist...). Anarchists surrounded the ProtestWarriors and started fighting them and claimed it was "their rally". Apparently, President Bush's inauguration was not an inauguration, but solely an area for leftist protesters and leftist protesters only. Apparently, the constitution doesn't apply there and only a certain political ideology obtains rights.

 

But, whatever...just wanted to give a brief synopsis of some hypocrisy of the New Left.

 

 

So, as some of you may well know, I was a year or two back involved with a site called HackThisSite.org, where I was an administrator. I made many friends there, including the owner of the site, Xec96. He is a radical anarchist liberal, though I am just a tiny bit flaming liberal. We became fast friends and even though we differed in political views, we had mutual respect (and lengthy IRC debates on politics). We even met up in real life, in my basement one night (during last years Washington D.C. protests against the world bank). Eventually I just stopped caring about the internet, and voila, here I am now.

 

See this is all cool and all, but I still want to know wtf a "leftist anarchist" is...

 

Anarchism is right wing. Ted Kaczynsky(crazy mother f*cker that was also known as the unibomber) was an anarchist, his manifesto clearly outlines anarchy's hatred for leftism...

 

Yaddy yaddy ya I could go into Austrian School thoughts but that's not what this is about...

 

 

So recently during the summer I decided I should check in with them. I logged onto mIRC to find something that I couldn't believe. Apparently, the FBI had raided my friend Xec96 (Jeremy) for (as ProtestWarrior states in their news) "[leading] a group of politically-motivated 'Hacktivists' to [...] upload malicious files that gave them the ability to execute commands on the server." I was shell-shocked. Jeremy was a good kid, who just had different philosophies about government and human rights. I logged onto AIM to talk to him and see what happened. Apparently, he had found an exploit in their server that gave him access to use pretty much any command he wanted. However, unlike ProtestWarrior's Report, he did not steal any credit cards, user details, or damage the site at all. The FBI was unable to detain/arrest him because they lacked any evidence, and such they took all of his electrical equipment instead and are (apparently) planning on inditing him for mega-online fraud anyways.

 

 

Soooo, what was he doing with the exploits again? Just playing around? I don't get it, a self proclaimed leftist accidentally stumbles onto a right wing site and accidentally finds an exploit?

 

I don't know the details but here are some chilling things I have heard

-Jeremy had planned to steal credit card numbers from thousands of PWers(from the PW store or PW chapter headquarters I suppose)

-Jeremy planned to donate money to leftist groups. One of which included indymedia.

 

Indymedia strikes a nerve when mentioned at PW. Indymedia released an article claiming that PW was a CIA organization(I have YET to recieve my CIA check). Indymedia also released a video detailing the home phone numbers, addresses, and other personal information stolen from the site of Chicago chaptor of PW.

 

Anyways, I don't want to believe any of this, so without further proof, I won't. However, isn't it highly suspicous as to how he got the security exploit and what he was planning to do with it?

 

 

I decided I should start looking around ProtestWarrior and get to know the exact kind of people the site harbored. I signed up on their forums under my old name from HackThisSite, "AciD". I then proceeded to go into their forum "The Enemy" which is all about right wingers discussing "Noam Chomsky deconstructed", "How would you assassinate Ward Churchill", and my favorite topic title, "screw liberals with their ass spelunking panties". No, I didn't just pick and choose for the sake of debate. Go there and see for yourself. So anyways, I decided to start refuting, rebuttling, and everything else inbetween. I started getting replies and noticing a pattern pretty regularly...

 

Again, ProtestWarrior is a right wing site. Im not sure if you know this, but as ou go to the right, you abhor things like government and regulation. It would be hypocritical to hold this view and at the same time, hire 30 moderators to guard the place. And so, the PW forums operate on basically NO moderating. Yes, free speech is really free speech at the PW forums. It's funny you pick out only the stupid neo-conservative type threads, and not the hundreds of thousands of other posts that are quite articulate. However, we also have our fair share of liberal slander that is equivalent to what you posted.

 

Also, the people on the PW forums do not represent PW as an organization at all. So please don't try to set a correlation between two things that are pretty seperate entities.

 

2: Quotes from ProtestWarrior's Forums

 

here

Well if it doesnt' apply to you then f*ck off. But you just re-itterated that liberals have no stance except for "anyone but Bush." [...] Oh and you still lost, long hair or not. And you still were dumb enough to vote for Kerry. So go get your shoeshine box.

 

here

Because he lost . . . dumbass.

 

here

Oh my insulting must automatically equate to a bad quality, rather than the fact that you have no arguement and just spout drivel. The glory of the internet - I can say what the f*ck i want and you can take it like a bitch. Laughing

 

here

You are a dumb liberal fa**ot who needs to be beated about the face with an axe handle. Take your garbage elsewhere you worthless douchebag. Go suck on Maddox's cock some more so that you can taste some more of your sh*t.

You are a tool.

 

here

Read what my nation's founders actually said, wrote and FOUGHT A WAR FOR! There is ample evidence there to completely make NULL AND VOID the LIBERAL LIES you just belched forth!

Also, for many more links, books, tapes...to support the veracity of every word I posted on page one, post one here, go to PAGE ONE, POST ONE, of the following llink; it will provide you with some 40"+" links that utterly demolish your vain lib lies.

 

The link:

http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic....9211780#9211780

 

REMEMBER: go to page one, post one.

 

also check out:

http://www.LiberalScum.com

 

here

Its scary what these liberals/communists really think.

 

Its just a shame more people dont know it. We need to get the word out!

 

here

Once again, Michael Savage's message rings true. I know I've said this a lot, but it bears repeating:

 

"Liberalism is not a political philosphy. It is a mental disorder."

 

These filthy marxist animals would love to see America and all of Western civilization down. They would gladly take part in the wholesale slaughter of white Christians, if they thought they could get away with it.

 

here

That just shows how liberals are the most intolerant and racist people out therem they have no right throwing those words at conservatives.

 

here

After reading this thread, I don't think there's any doubt that the left is totally evil. We have to stop them.

 

here

[...] Liberals don't base their beliefs on physical evidence, written history, or logical reason, so it doesn't help to provide examples of evidence, history, or reason to rebut their remarks. Their beliefs are based on Blind Faith. [...]

And lastly my favorite. In response to this quote:

 

here

 

They really are the enemy. This country is in an ideological war.
How ironic that I said the very same thing not too long ago. But I was referring to the far-right conservatives.

The Site Admin "Alan" replied:

 

here

Well Brian, I guess that makes you our enemy. Your sick ideology butchered over a hundred million people last century, God only knows what you've got planned for the next one.

So I feel pretty confident now that I've proven just the type of hate-filled site that this is, so I'll move on to my personal reasons for hating them. In the thread discussing the news of "Hacker Caught" (My friend Jeremy), some people had this to say:

 

3: ProtestWarrior on Jeremy (Xec96)

 

here

 

If we're gonna do that, send it to me. I loved that show and I will need it to experience some good ol' prison ass-rape, he won't  lol.gif

 

Oh yes, that's right, I forgot.

 

You don't get to experience rape, because you always give your consent.

 

here

An "armed to the teeth" liberal is an oxymoron. So shut up and go listen to some more Rage while you cream your pants to fantasies of overthrowing the government while simutaneously being too much of a chickensh*t to do a goddamn thing.

 

here

No one cares what you think dipsh*t, so do the world a favor and crawl back into your Cybercafe and drink your sh*tty Latte.

I could easily go on and on with more graphic quotes (e.g. quite a quantity of 'anal rape by bubba' cracks (no pun intended)).

 

Free speech is free speech. We don't operate on moderation on PW, every member is their own moderator(notice the "ignore" feature which, with the click of a button, allows you to ignore all posts from wahtever member you choose. If something offends you, you can completely block it out without harming the other poster and being 100% effective. No crying, no bitching to mods, it's a very nice system indeed and it works VERY well.

 

 

4: Proving Jeremy's Innocence

I am in the lucky observational position of being a staff member of Jeremy's site, and of being one of his better friends. I got to know him alot, on the internet and in person. He is an anarchist, yes. He, however, is not a thief, nor would he even know how to pull off mass fraud. Until I made an article on HackThisSite about PHP Injection, he didn't know a bit of hacking at all (Which as he often commented to me, was quite ironic).

 

However, I do not expect you to believe this off my word; that would be baseless/backless. On FreeJeremy.org, it says the following concerning the FBI raiding Jeremy's Unversity of Chicago apartment:

 

On March 17 2005, nine Chicago FBI agents raided and seized all electronic equipment in Jeremy Hammond's apartment. Facing intimidation from both the FBI and the Secret Service, he is being accused of hacking into right-wing website ProtestWarrior.com. While the website had not been damaged and no credit cards were billed, the FBI is threatening to charge him with unauthorized access and credit card fraud totalling to millions of dollars in damages and up to thirty years in federal prison for a crime that hasn't even happened.
If you read this carefully, as Jeremy himself pointed out, you will notice that the FBI did not apprehend him or arrest him. They raided his apartment and searched for data relating to the supposed 'stolen credit card' information. However, they came up empty handed, and were unable to apprehend him. This proves, in part, he is innocent of the charges placed against him.

 

Well, like I said, I haven't heard anything of this story except from PW and FreeJeremy, which are two biased sources indeed. It's tough to tell, but the problem is here: You guys, instead of focusing on Jeremy's defense, have made it into a mudslinging debate with PW. The fact that you slam PW with every chance you get isn't helping. The "well they deserved it anyway" defense is useless.

 

 

5: Conclusion

ProtestWarrior is a hateful site; It preaches it's rhetoric of "people with dissenting opinions are treasonous and inferior" to a mass of politically-empty right wing conservatives. I tried through many, many posts to have a civilized debate (Search their site for my username, AciD, and read my post/the responses if you don't believe me), only to be let down by a series of "Ad Hominem" personal attacks such as "Liberal", "Treasonous Lib", etc, and numerous right wing catch phrases such as "Right or Wrong sides".

 

ProtestWarrior does not preach this, and if it did, then it has a right to.Like Ive said, the forum does not represent the site in itself and so you can't take quotes from a free speech forum and use them against those who are enabling the free speech in the first place.

 

If you don't think it's diverse enough, good Lord are you wrong, because Ive never met one site with more dissenting views on it. PW VERY VERY VERY VERY rarely bans anybody at all, and when they do, it is not for their views.(Ive only seen one person banned, and he was a right winger). Free speech is allowed to anybody no matter what your view is at PW and I encourage all to sign up over there. If you don't like the free speech environment, then a more heavily moderated forum is what you will enjoy, not PW. Anybody can sign up there and view the many different opinions that grace the forum and the many colorful debates that happen regularly.

 

Once again, PW is not for the easily offended, along with free speech comes some things you might not enjoy(if you are not particular of a user, then you can always put him/her on ignore though).

 

 

It is an almost militant site that encourages blind hatred of dissenting opinions. As we all know, Blind hatred hinders reasoning, and ignorance is bliss. Both are commonly found both on their site and forums.

 

I would like to see proof of how it encourages militant blind hatred, and no, I don't want forum threads.

 

 

I would like you to discuss your impressions, experiences, run-ins, etc of ProtestWarrior here so that we can have a civilized debate without the need for their petty personal attacks. If you read that entire thing, Kudos to you. You have broadened your understanding.

 

Eh, that's what I just did colgate.gif

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Svip
@Svip: I am not sure exactly what exploit he used. I'll have to ask him (I didn't think it was critical to the story).

Well, true, I do believe you are right. But I do am a bit interested, because that's what I do. Heh.

 

But, tehhunter, the Internet is full of idiots, I normally ignore them out of question, because instead of trying to come into some sort of flame war, I just stay cool about it. However, when they do have an impact on your life, I do understand your agression, though I cannot say that I slightly agree with that website, I must admit though, that I would probably just ignore it. I'll think of more stuff to say later, perhaps after you find out what he did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StewMitch

The one Protest Warrior Vid I watched, they were the ones who were assaulted. Merely for being there and disagreeing with the Protestors. So much for Freedom of speech eh.

 

And how about the kid who posted PW flyers in his school and was reprimanded despite "leftists" had done the same thing? I like how biased are education system is. Either you let "rightists" and "leftists" have their speech or neither of them. You can't attack the rightist student and allow the leftist teacher to pontificate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BenMillard

Hacking is a crime in and of itself. I hope he serves time for the crime(s) he committed and rejoins society in a more productive manner, such as using his hacking skills to run a freelance server security consultancy or something. Obviously he should not be punished for any crimes he has not committed (duh) and so hopefully a thorough and fair investigation will take place, based upon real evidence and not putting too much weight on personal views of the persons involved. Having seen the way the Micheal Jackson trial was handled I hope that a sensible jury is selected or, if no jury is present, that a technologically aware judge presides.

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves. The PW are likely to be the most vocal support for this, since I imagine they realise how important strong property rights are to a capitalist economy. Hopefully the two sides can build on this common ground to spread the engagment of rational, constructive debate between considerate individuals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ISuck
Hacking is a crime in and of itself. I hope he serves time for the crime(s) he committed and rejoins society in a more productive manner, such as using his hacking skills to run a freelance server security consultancy or something. Obviously he should not be punished for any crimes he has not committed (duh) and so hopefully a thorough and fair investigation will take place, based upon real evidence and not putting too much weight on personal views of the persons involved. Having seen the way the Micheal Jackson trial was handled I hope that a sensible jury is selected or, if no jury is present, that a technologically aware judge presides.

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves. The PW are likely to be the most vocal support for this, since I imagine they realise how important strong property rights are to a capitalist economy. Hopefully the two sides can build on this common ground to spread the engagment of rational, constructive debate between considerate individuals.

His property rights become priveldges and forfitable when he infringes on the property rights of others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tehhunter
One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves. The PW are likely to be the most vocal support for this, since I imagine they realise how important strong property rights are to a capitalist economy. Hopefully the two sides can build on this common ground to spread the engagment of rational, constructive debate between considerate individuals.

Cerb, based on how they want to see Jeremy anal-raped in prison, I don't think they really care about returning anything to Jeremy. They care more about finding him guilty, no matter what stands in the way (e.g. lack of evidence).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ISuck
One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.  The PW are likely to be the most vocal support for this, since I imagine they realise how important strong property rights are to a capitalist economy.  Hopefully the two sides can build on this common ground to spread the engagment of rational, constructive debate between considerate individuals.

Cerb, based on how they want to see Jeremy anal-raped in prison, I don't think they really care about returning anything to Jeremy. They care more about finding him guilty, no matter what stands in the way (e.g. lack of evidence).

So do you want to respond to my post or not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BenMillard

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.  The PW are likely to be the most vocal support for this, since I imagine they realise how important strong property rights are to a capitalist economy.  Hopefully the two sides can build on this common ground to spread the engagment of rational, constructive debate between considerate individuals.
Cerb, based on how they want to see Jeremy anal-raped in prison, I don't think they really care about returning anything to Jeremy. They care more about finding him guilty, no matter what stands in the way (e.g. lack of evidence).
So do you want to respond to my post or not?Nobody likes responding to spammers. Bumping topics because you feel unloved is not how D&D should be used. You are starting to make something of a habit of it.

 

 

His [Jeremy's] property rights become privileges and forfitable when he infringes on the property rights of others.
You have to bear in mind that until the trial has reached a verdict (and assuming that verdict is "guilty") he has not commited a crime. Innocent until proven guilty. Removing his property rights cannot be justified soley on allegations which have not been put under the proper scrutiny of the justice system. It only makes sense if the rights being forfeited are to better establish his guilt (or innocence) in the charges he is accused. After this has been established, his property should be returned as any useful purpose for the trial to have removed it from him has been fulfilled.

 

If he is to be fined and has insufficient funds to pay the fine, then he could choose possessions to be auctioned or pay the fine over a length of time (which is often what happens in the UK) with the figure adjusted for inflation and so forth. Letting the government seize unlimited amounts of a citizen's property based on unproven allegations makes no sense at all, which is why I was so sure you would be in agreement with me. Perhaps you misunderstood my position?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ISuck

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.  The PW are likely to be the most vocal support for this, since I imagine they realise how important strong property rights are to a capitalist economy.  Hopefully the two sides can build on this common ground to spread the engagment of rational, constructive debate between considerate individuals.
Cerb, based on how they want to see Jeremy anal-raped in prison, I don't think they really care about returning anything to Jeremy. They care more about finding him guilty, no matter what stands in the way (e.g. lack of evidence).
So do you want to respond to my post or not?Nobody likes responding to spammers. Bumping topics because you feel unloved is not how D&D should be used. You are starting to make something of a habit of it.

 

It was already at the top, you can't bump something to the top that's already at the top.

 

 

His [Jeremy's] property rights become privileges and forfitable when he infringes on the property rights of others.
You have to bear in mind that until the trial has reached a verdict (and assuming that verdict is "guilty") he has not commited a crime. Innocent until proven guilty. Removing his property rights cannot be justified soley on allegations which have not been put under the proper scrutiny of the justice system. It only makes sense if the rights being forfeited are to better establish his guilt (or innocence) in the charges he is accused. After this has been established, his property should be returned as any useful purpose for the trial to have removed it from him has been fulfilled.

 

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.

 

Apparently you too, are thinking he's guilty. That's what my response was to.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BenMillard

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.  The PW are likely to be the most vocal support for this, since I imagine they realise how important strong property rights are to a capitalist economy.  Hopefully the two sides can build on this common ground to spread the engagment of rational, constructive debate between considerate individuals.
Cerb, based on how they want to see Jeremy anal-raped in prison, I don't think they really care about returning anything to Jeremy. They care more about finding him guilty, no matter what stands in the way (e.g. lack of evidence).
So do you want to respond to my post or not?
Nobody likes responding to spammers. Bumping topics because you feel unloved is not how D&D should be used. You are starting to make something of a habit of it.It was already at the top, you can't bump something to the top that's already at the top.It is impossible for this topic topic to be at the top since there are two pinned topics permanently occupying the top two positions. Additionally, there were two days between tehhunter's post on the 23rd and your one-line bump on the 25th. During that time, several topics had been replied in and this topic had descended down the order. Since you were not adding anything to the topic and it had not been replied to for days, your post was an example of "bumping" a thread. QED.

 

 

His [Jeremy's] property rights become privileges and forfitable when he infringes on the property rights of others.
You have to bear in mind that until the trial has reached a verdict (and assuming that verdict is "guilty") he has not commited a crime. Innocent until proven guilty. Removing his property rights cannot be justified soley on allegations which have not been put under the proper scrutiny of the justice system. It only makes sense if the rights being forfeited are to better establish his guilt (or innocence) in the charges he is accused. After this has been established, his property should be returned as any useful purpose for the trial to have removed it from him has been fulfilled.

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.
Apparently you too, are thinking he's guilty. That's what my response was to.Maybe this is part of the US-UK language divide, but over here the term "any" means "an unspecified value" which would include zero or even negative numbers. That is why the term "anything" is so wide-ranging; it includes any value. I made explicitly clear in my post that my view is "innocent until proven guilty" and that until the allegations have gone through the proper process of investigation and trial, the answer to that will not be known. Therefore, your suggestion that I think he is guilty is incorrect since I am undecided. It is also slightly puzzling that you arrives at this false assertion when my posts have so clearly stressed that pre-judging the case should be avoided.

 

 

As a side note, breaking up the chronology of the quote cascade is disorienting for the reader. Rather than being able to concentrate on your ideas, they have to try and piece together the exploded fragments of quotes in your post. Removing authors from the quotes and the dates they were posted on makes it doubly difficult to trace who said what and when it was said. It makes your posts seem like they were written in a state of unthinking delerium. You would probably benefit from A Guide To Presenting Arguments since that goes into a little detail about best practises when quoting previous messages in a thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ISuck

 

 

 

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.  The PW are likely to be the most vocal support for this, since I imagine they realise how important strong property rights are to a capitalist economy.  Hopefully the two sides can build on this common ground to spread the engagment of rational, constructive debate between considerate individuals.
Cerb, based on how they want to see Jeremy anal-raped in prison, I don't think they really care about returning anything to Jeremy. They care more about finding him guilty, no matter what stands in the way (e.g. lack of evidence).
So do you want to respond to my post or not?
Nobody likes responding to spammers. Bumping topics because you feel unloved is not how D&D should be used. You are starting to make something of a habit of it.It was already at the top, you can't bump something to the top that's already at the top.It is impossible for this topic topic to be at the top since there are two pinned topics permanently occupying the top two positions. Additionally, there were two days between tehhunter's post on the 23rd and your one-line bump on the 25th. During that time, several topics had been replied in and this topic had descended down the order. Since you were not adding anything to the topic and it had not been replied to for days, your post was an example of "bumping" a thread. QED.

 

My post was not anymore a bump than your post prior. I was asking hunter if he would like to respond yet. It's obvious hunter was concerned with this issue and if he had misrepresented PW, my post demonstrates how he did and he has since ignored it.

 

 

His [Jeremy's] property rights become privileges and forfitable when he infringes on the property rights of others.
You have to bear in mind that until the trial has reached a verdict (and assuming that verdict is "guilty") he has not commited a crime. Innocent until proven guilty. Removing his property rights cannot be justified soley on allegations which have not been put under the proper scrutiny of the justice system. It only makes sense if the rights being forfeited are to better establish his guilt (or innocence) in the charges he is accused. After this has been established, his property should be returned as any useful purpose for the trial to have removed it from him has been fulfilled.

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.
Apparently you too, are thinking he's guilty. That's what my response was to.Maybe this is part of the US-UK language divide, but over here the term "any" means "an unspecified value" which would include zero or even negative numbers. That is why the term "anything" is so wide-ranging; it includes any value. I made explicitly clear in my post that my view is "innocent until proven guilty" and that until the allegations have gone through the proper process of investigation and trial, the answer to that will not be known. Therefore, your suggestion that I think he is guilty is incorrect since I am undecided. It is also slightly puzzling that you arrives at this false assertion when my posts have so clearly stressed that pre-judging the case should be avoided.

 

To avoid confusion, I ask that you present your arguements more clearly than saying such demeaning and misleading statements as "any sentence" qualifying "no sentence".

 

 

As a side note, breaking up the chronology of the quote cascade is disorienting for the reader.  Rather than being able to concentrate on your ideas, they have to try and piece together the exploded fragments of quotes in your post.  Removing authors from the quotes and the dates they were posted on makes it doubly difficult to trace who said what and when it was said.  It makes your posts seem like they were written in a state of unthinking delerium.  You would probably benefit from A Guide To Presenting Arguments since that goes into a little detail about best practises when quoting previous messages in a thread.

 

Read it. Don't care. Stay on topic.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BenMillard

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.  The PW are likely to be the most vocal support for this, since I imagine they realise how important strong property rights are to a capitalist economy.  Hopefully the two sides can build on this common ground to spread the engagment of rational, constructive debate between considerate individuals.
Cerb, based on how they want to see Jeremy anal-raped in prison, I don't think they really care about returning anything to Jeremy. They care more about finding him guilty, no matter what stands in the way (e.g. lack of evidence).
So do you want to respond to my post or not?
Nobody likes responding to spammers. Bumping topics because you feel unloved is not how D&D should be used. You are starting to make something of a habit of it.
It was already at the top, you can't bump something to the top that's already at the top.It is impossible for this topic topic to be at the top since there are two pinned topics permanently occupying the top two positions. Additionally, there were two days between tehhunter's post on the 23rd and your one-line bump on the 25th. During that time, several topics had been replied in and this topic had descended down the order. Since you were not adding anything to the topic and it had not been replied to for days, your post was an example of "bumping" a thread. QED.My post was not anymore a bump than your post prior. I was asking hunter if he would like to respond yet. It's obvious hunter was concerned with this issue and if he had misrepresented PW, my post demonstrates how he did and he has since ignored it.Huh? Your post was 53 hours after the previous poster, tehhunter. My subsequent post was just 16.5 hours after yours. Even if my post qualified as a pointless "bump" (which it doesn't) then it wouldn't even be one third of the bump you did. blink.gif

 

Furthermore, your post added nothing to the topic, it just prompted one person to make another post - a request which should have been carried out through PM to avoid the topic being bumped above two days of active threads. My post was pointing out to you (and the rest of the D&D audience) that what you did was an inconsiderate use of the forum. All my subsequent post in this thread have been to counter your falsification of the facts so that the audience does not become confused and think it is OK to bump other topics in a similar fashion to the way you did.

 

 

His [Jeremy's] property rights become privileges and forfitable when he infringes on the property rights of others.
You have to bear in mind that until the trial has reached a verdict (and assuming that verdict is "guilty") he has not commited a crime. Innocent until proven guilty. Removing his property rights cannot be justified soley on allegations which have not been put under the proper scrutiny of the justice system. It only makes sense if the rights being forfeited are to better establish his guilt (or innocence) in the charges he is accused. After this has been established, his property should be returned as any useful purpose for the trial to have removed it from him has been fulfilled.

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.
Apparently you too, are thinking he's guilty. That's what my response was to.Maybe this is part of the US-UK language divide, but over here the term "any" means "an unspecified value" which would include zero or even negative numbers. That is why the term "anything" is so wide-ranging; it includes any value. I made explicitly clear in my post that my view is "innocent until proven guilty" and that until the allegations have gone through the proper process of investigation and trial, the answer to that will not be known. Therefore, your suggestion that I think he is guilty is incorrect since I am undecided. It is also slightly puzzling that you arrives at this false assertion when my posts have so clearly stressed that pre-judging the case should be avoided.To avoid confusion, I ask that you present your arguements more clearly than saying such demeaning and misleading statements as "any sentence" qualifying "no sentence".I don't understand. How is my correct use of language demeaning and misleading to anyone?

 

 

As a side note, breaking up the chronology of the quote cascade is disorienting for the reader.  Rather than being able to concentrate on your ideas, they have to try and piece together the exploded fragments of quotes in your post.  Removing authors from the quotes and the dates they were posted on makes it doubly difficult to trace who said what and when it was said.  It makes your posts seem like they were written in a state of unthinking delerium.  You would probably benefit from A Guide To Presenting Arguments since that goes into a little detail about best practises when quoting previous messages in a thread.
Read it. Don't care. Stay on topic.That explains a lot. You don't care about writing for the audience or engaging in constructive debates, you just want to spout opinionated nonsense and then try to evade anyone who points out this out.

 

Please, please, take this area seriously.

 

It may not seem like much to you but for the people who use it regularly, it offers a unique spot on the forums where they can get away from the shallow chatter in other areas and have meaningful conversations. If you want to take part, then you will have to make more of an effort in your writing and your reasoning. Nobody will care what you say if you don't care what they say. Pretty basic stuff, isn't it?

Edited by Cerbera

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ISuck
One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.  The PW are likely to be the most vocal support for this, since I imagine they realise how important strong property rights are to a capitalist economy.  Hopefully the two sides can build on this common ground to spread the engagment of rational, constructive debate between considerate individuals.
Cerb, based on how they want to see Jeremy anal-raped in prison, I don't think they really care about returning anything to Jeremy. They care more about finding him guilty, no matter what stands in the way (e.g. lack of evidence).
So do you want to respond to my post or not?
Nobody likes responding to spammers. Bumping topics because you feel unloved is not how D&D should be used. You are starting to make something of a habit of it.
It was already at the top, you can't bump something to the top that's already at the top.It is impossible for this topic topic to be at the top since there are two pinned topics permanently occupying the top two positions. Additionally, there were two days between tehhunter's post on the 23rd and your one-line bump on the 25th. During that time, several topics had been replied in and this topic had descended down the order. Since you were not adding anything to the topic and it had not been replied to for days, your post was an example of "bumping" a thread. QED.My post was not anymore a bump than your post prior. I was asking hunter if he would like to respond yet. It's obvious hunter was concerned with this issue and if he had misrepresented PW, my post demonstrates how he did and he has since ignored it.Huh? Your post was 53 hours after the previous poster, tehhunter. My subsequent post was just 16.5 hours after yours. Even if my post qualified as a pointless "bump" (which it doesn't) then it wouldn't even be one third of the bump you did. blink.gif

 

Furthermore, your post added nothing to the topic, it just prompted one person to make another post - a request which should have been carried out through PM to avoid the topic being bumped above two days of active threads. My post was pointing out to you (and the rest of the D&D audience) that what you did was an inconsiderate use of the forum. All my subsequent post in this thread have been to counter your falsification of the facts so that the audience does not become confused and think it is OK to bump other topics in a similar fashion to the way you did.

 

 

His [Jeremy's] property rights become privileges and forfitable when he infringes on the property rights of others.
You have to bear in mind that until the trial has reached a verdict (and assuming that verdict is "guilty") he has not commited a crime. Innocent until proven guilty. Removing his property rights cannot be justified soley on allegations which have not been put under the proper scrutiny of the justice system. It only makes sense if the rights being forfeited are to better establish his guilt (or innocence) in the charges he is accused. After this has been established, his property should be returned as any useful purpose for the trial to have removed it from him has been fulfilled.

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.
Apparently you too, are thinking he's guilty. That's what my response was to.Maybe this is part of the US-UK language divide, but over here the term "any" means "an unspecified value" which would include zero or even negative numbers. That is why the term "anything" is so wide-ranging; it includes any value. I made explicitly clear in my post that my view is "innocent until proven guilty" and that until the allegations have gone through the proper process of investigation and trial, the answer to that will not be known. Therefore, your suggestion that I think he is guilty is incorrect since I am undecided. It is also slightly puzzling that you arrives at this false assertion when my posts have so clearly stressed that pre-judging the case should be avoided.To avoid confusion, I ask that you present your arguements more clearly than saying such demeaning and misleading statements as "any sentence" qualifying "no sentence".I don't understand. How is my correct use of language demeaning and misleading to anyone?

 

 

As a side note, breaking up the chronology of the quote cascade is disorienting for the reader.  Rather than being able to concentrate on your ideas, they have to try and piece together the exploded fragments of quotes in your post.  Removing authors from the quotes and the dates they were posted on makes it doubly difficult to trace who said what and when it was said.  It makes your posts seem like they were written in a state of unthinking delerium.  You would probably benefit from A Guide To Presenting Arguments since that goes into a little detail about best practises when quoting previous messages in a thread.
Read it. Don't care. Stay on topic.That explains a lot. You don't care about writing for the audience or engaging in constructive debates, you just want to spout opinionated nonsense and then try to evade anyone who points out this out.

 

Please, please, take this area seriously.

 

It may not seem like much to you but for the people who use it regularly, it offers a unique spot on the forums where they can get away from the shallow chatter in other areas and have meaningful conversations. If you want to take part, then you will have to make more of an effort in your writing and your reasoning. Nobody will care what you say if you don't care what they say. Pretty basic stuff, isn't it?

Read it. Don't care. Still waiting for tehhunter's reply. Will stop replying in an effort, against your motives, to get this thread back on topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BenMillard

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.  The PW are likely to be the most vocal support for this, since I imagine they realise how important strong property rights are to a capitalist economy.  Hopefully the two sides can build on this common ground to spread the engagment of rational, constructive debate between considerate individuals.
Cerb, based on how they want to see Jeremy anal-raped in prison, I don't think they really care about returning anything to Jeremy. They care more about finding him guilty, no matter what stands in the way (e.g. lack of evidence).
So do you want to respond to my post or not?
Nobody likes responding to spammers. Bumping topics because you feel unloved is not how D&D should be used. You are starting to make something of a habit of it.
It was already at the top, you can't bump something to the top that's already at the top.
It is impossible for this topic topic to be at the top since there are two pinned topics permanently occupying the top two positions. Additionally, there were two days between tehhunter's post on the 23rd and your one-line bump on the 25th. During that time, several topics had been replied in and this topic had descended down the order. Since you were not adding anything to the topic and it had not been replied to for days, your post was an example of "bumping" a thread. QED.My post was not anymore a bump than your post prior. I was asking hunter if he would like to respond yet. It's obvious hunter was concerned with this issue and if he had misrepresented PW, my post demonstrates how he did and he has since ignored it.Huh? Your post was 53 hours after the previous poster, tehhunter. My subsequent post was just 16.5 hours after yours. Even if my post qualified as a pointless "bump" (which it doesn't) then it wouldn't even be one third of the bump you did. blink.gif

 

Furthermore, your post added nothing to the topic, it just prompted one person to make another post - a request which should have been carried out through PM to avoid the topic being bumped above two days of active threads. My post was pointing out to you (and the rest of the D&D audience) that what you did was an inconsiderate use of the forum. All my subsequent post in this thread have been to counter your falsification of the facts so that the audience does not become confused and think it is OK to bump other topics in a similar fashion to the way you did.

 

 

His [Jeremy's] property rights become privileges and forfitable when he infringes on the property rights of others.
You have to bear in mind that until the trial has reached a verdict (and assuming that verdict is "guilty") he has not commited a crime. Innocent until proven guilty. Removing his property rights cannot be justified soley on allegations which have not been put under the proper scrutiny of the justice system. It only makes sense if the rights being forfeited are to better establish his guilt (or innocence) in the charges he is accused. After this has been established, his property should be returned as any useful purpose for the trial to have removed it from him has been fulfilled.

 

One thing everyone can agree in is that his property should be returned to him after the investigation and any sentence he serves.
Apparently you too, are thinking he's guilty. That's what my response was to.Maybe this is part of the US-UK language divide, but over here the term "any" means "an unspecified value" which would include zero or even negative numbers. That is why the term "anything" is so wide-ranging; it includes any value. I made explicitly clear in my post that my view is "innocent until proven guilty" and that until the allegations have gone through the proper process of investigation and trial, the answer to that will not be known. Therefore, your suggestion that I think he is guilty is incorrect since I am undecided. It is also slightly puzzling that you arrives at this false assertion when my posts have so clearly stressed that pre-judging the case should be avoided.To avoid confusion, I ask that you present your arguements more clearly than saying such demeaning and misleading statements as "any sentence" qualifying "no sentence".I don't understand. How is my correct use of language demeaning and misleading to anyone?

 

 

As a side note, breaking up the chronology of the quote cascade is disorienting for the reader.  Rather than being able to concentrate on your ideas, they have to try and piece together the exploded fragments of quotes in your post.  Removing authors from the quotes and the dates they were posted on makes it doubly difficult to trace who said what and when it was said.  It makes your posts seem like they were written in a state of unthinking delerium.  You would probably benefit from A Guide To Presenting Arguments since that goes into a little detail about best practises when quoting previous messages in a thread.
Read it. Don't care. Stay on topic.That explains a lot. You don't care about writing for the audience or engaging in constructive debates, you just want to spout opinionated nonsense and then try to evade anyone who points out this out.

 

Please, please, take this area seriously.

 

It may not seem like much to you but for the people who use it regularly, it offers a unique spot on the forums where they can get away from the shallow chatter in other areas and have meaningful conversations. If you want to take part, then you will have to make more of an effort in your writing and your reasoning. Nobody will care what you say if you don't care what they say. Pretty basic stuff, isn't it?

Read it. Don't care. Still waiting for tehhunter's reply. Will stop replying in an effort, against your motives, to get this thread back on topic.The mystery is complete! You don't care about making sense or answering counters to your ideas, you are only here to waste the time of those who use the area in a concientous fashion. I can't honestly say that this was contrary to what I suspected but at least now it's been made clear to everyone. smile.gif Edited by Cerbera

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • 2 Users Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 2 Guests

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.