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Charidemus

Creation vs Evolution

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Charidemus

Creation vs Evolution

 

Evolution is the theory of life adapting to it's surroundings overtime; Creation is the theory that the Earth was created by God.

 

There are many other theories based around these such as the "Big Bang" and "Natural Selection", the reason for so many theories is to attempt to explain the universe, but what ultimately makes it tick?

 

 

The process in nature by which, according to Darwin's theory of evolution, only the organisms best adapted to their environment tend to survive and transmit their genetic characteristics in increasing numbers to succeeding generations while those less adapted tend to be eliminated.

 

 

A cosmological theory holding that the universe originated approximately 20 billion years ago from the violent explosion of a very small agglomeration of matter of extremely high density and temperature.

 

I personally believe that the Earth was created by God, the one that has and always will be there, and that evolution is like a tool of his, to shape the world.

 

What are your views? What theories do you believe in?

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Mortukai

Hello Charidemus,

 

You haven't given us much to debate here. You've merely simplistically defined evolution and creation and then stated which one you believe in and asked everyone else which theories they believe in. That's not a debate, that's a poll, no more intellectually stimulating than asking us all what our favourite colour is.

 

Instead, I'd appreciate (and I'm sure others would too) if you'd outline your arguments supporting your position on creation, and your arguments against evolution (or more accurately, why you think evolution is congruent with creationism). This would enable others like myself to engage in a proper debate/discussion with your question. And in the interest of coherence, I'd drop any mention of the Big Bang too, as the theory of the Big Bang has approximately nothing to do with evolution. The Big Bang doesn't explain where the universe came from either, it simply explains the distribution and expansion of matter throughout the universe, nothing more.

 

Here's something to get you started: You state that you believe that God created life and uses evolution to "shape the world"; could you please explain how you think evolution, which requires many thousands and millions of years for any really significant changes to be seen, could be compatible with creationism, which requires that the earth is younger than 6,000 years? Alternatively, could you explain how dinosaurs fit into your beliefs?

 

Thanks.

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Charidemus

Fair enough Mortukai, but the debate was between seperate views, I want to here others so we can talk them out, and debate them.

 

I don't believe that the Earth is 6000 years old, I believe it is several billion. And that dinosaurs came into existance like every other creature after it.

 

I tend to combine evolution and creation as I said, so that the universe was ultimately created by God, but scientific facts of natural selection etc. shape the world and keep it going.

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desert_eagle
Fair enough Mortukai, but the debate was between seperate views, I want to here others so we can talk them out, and debate them.

 

I don't believe that the Earth is 6000 years old, I believe it is several billion. And that dinosaurs came into existance like every other creature after it.

 

I tend to combine evolution and creation as I said, so that the universe was ultimately created by God, but scientific facts of natural selection etc. shape the world and keep it going.

But what's your basis for that? I mean your theory doesn't really have any relevance to it if you just pick the things you like from creation and evolution and other theories, there must be other reasons. So why do you believe God created the earth? You obviously didn't take it from the bible...

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Charidemus
I believe God created the Earth out of faith, but still believe evolution fits into it all. What are your opinions?

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desert_eagle

I don't believe in creation. Evolution seems a likely theorie to me but I doubt if we'll ever find out what really happened.

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dr zoidberg

 

I tend to combine evolution and creation as I said, so that the universe was ultimately created by God, but scientific facts of natural selection etc. shape the world and keep it going.

This is just as valid an idea as creationism. In fact, in many ways it's a lot better though I don't personally beleive in it. I don't think he's just taking the bits he likes, he's fusing two ideas into one which would answer all the questions, such as the scientific evidence for evolution, and the mystery of how the universe came into existence.

 

Of course it is pretty convenient when you have a God-figure to fall back on to support this idea. I don't think science can ever disprove religion, as religion clearly requires the suspension of disbelief. So, if you do beleive in God this is a good theory. However I'll stick to evolutionism.

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desert_eagle
I tend to combine evolution and creation as I said, so that the universe was ultimately created by God, but scientific facts of natural selection etc. shape the world and keep it going.

This is just as valid an idea as creationism. In fact, in many ways it's a lot better though I don't personally beleive in it. I don't think he's just taking the bits he likes, he's fusing two ideas into one which would answer all the questions, such as the scientific evidence for evolution, and the mystery of how the universe came into existence.

 

Of course it is pretty convenient when you have a God-figure to fall back on to support this idea. I don't think science can ever disprove religion, as religion clearly requires the suspension of disbelief. So, if you do beleive in God this is a good theory. However I'll stick to evolutionism.

agreed

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Tryst

If earth was infact created by a so called god using the tools of evolution and the Big Bang theory, if you belive that he actualy created this plantet too, then your god must of created the whole f*cking universe. So who or what created him, seems to me that to do that he would be outside time and space.

 

Now if you just belive he created only life using the tool of evolution, than he isn't realy creating anything important. He is nothing more than a scientist creating a bacterial culture then waiting many years, because according to evolution life started as simple celled organisms. Is he realy a god then? If so, then you must consider every little child doing a science fair experiment on moldy bread and every biologist who is doing any kind of vaccine reasearch, ect..., gods.

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Charidemus
They study life, they don't create it.

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Krelian
Sidenote: Evolution and creation aren't the only possibilities. Thus disproving one does nothing to prove the other to be true.

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spoof

 

Sidenote: Evolution and creation aren't the only possibilities.  Thus disproving one does nothing to prove the other to be true.

I’m intrigued, perhaps you could extrapolate………..

 

(Unless you’re talking metaphysics, in which case don’t wink.gif )

 

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Krelian

I wasn't actually making suggestions for other theories. Merely stating that, as with any situation, disproving known theories doesn't mean there are no other possibilities not thought of yet.

 

You prove a theory by supporting it with evidence, not by disproving other theories.

 

For example, if I say George bush is a squirrel and you say he's a goat, my proving you wrong doesn't automatically mean that I'm right and he's a squirrel. Someone else could easily come along and call him a jackass and be more right than I am.

 

I'm not sure how well I explained that, but the long and short of it is that it's very possible for both evolutionists and creationists to be wrong.

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spoof

Any part of academic research methodology involves one trawling through the works of Karl Popper - very boring sh!t, for the most part, but the thing I always remember is the black swan in terms of falsification.

 

Paraphrasing, greatly:

 

 

A man walks down to his local lake every day for twenty years all he sees are white swans.

 

He cannot logically say that all swans are white

 

The next day he walk down to the lake and this time he sees a black swan. From his experience he can logically state that:

 

All swans are not white

 

 

 

This is not to say green, red and yellow swans don’t exist, merely to say that all swans are not white.

 

 

 

Sometimes falsification is all we have. When we cannot prove a given notion, the only thing we can do is to narrow the circle relating to what isn’t objectively provable, not what actually is wink.gif

 

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Krelian
Indeed. But quite a few people tend to miss the distinction between falsification and proof wink.gif

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spoof

You’re not wrong, my friend, you’re not wrong nervous.gif

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Mortukai

 

Indeed. But quite a few people tend to miss the distinction between falsification and proof

That's the beauty of Evolution: every piece of evidence that supports evolution, simultaneously falsifies biblical creationism. As evolution gets stronger, creationism gets weaker. This is becaue the nature of the two theories are such that they are mutually exclusive in most cases.

 

Using your example of calling George Bush a squirrel or a goat, it's not just a matter of disproving that he is a goat. It's a matter of proving that he is a squirrel, and thus, logically, cannot also be a goat.

 

Of course, then you get people coming along saying that he was a goat originally, but then he became a squirrel... turn.gif

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Hooded

I'm gonna stick with Creation, faith is faith.

 

But natural selection is a very valid fact.

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Krelian

I'm gonna stick with Creation, faith is faith.

 

But natural selection is a very valid fact.

blink.gif Uhm,wait, what?! That makes even less sense than most peoples' reasons for believing in creation.

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Tryst
They study life, they don't create it.

Oh, on the contrary. They manipulate life, they grow cells cultures which is in a sence creating life. When the technology exists I'm sure we'll be able to take a couple of atoms and/or protine strings and actualy create life from the unliving.

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Craig Kostelecky

While neither theory is probably 100% the way it happened, I'll believe the evolution theory much more because of how it was founded. With Creationism, everybody already knew how the Earth and life was formed. And any evidence they found was either accepted becasue it backed up that fact, or rejected because it contridicted it.

 

Now with evolution, that process is reversed. The scientists started by looking at the evidence. Then one guy made an educated guess on how it all began. And since then, countless other scientists have been testing that theory. When new discoveries are made, the theory changes a little bit.

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Hooded
I'm gonna stick with Creation, faith is faith.

 

But natural selection is a very valid fact.

blink.gif Uhm,wait, what?! That makes even less sense than most peoples' reasons for believing in creation.

What do you mean it doesn't make sense?

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Krelian

You're going to stick with creation because faith is faith?

 

Shouldn't you have something to base that faith on? wink.gif

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Hooded

I figure that since we will never know whats the truth until we die, that I will stick with what I would rather happen.

 

However I as I said, evolution and the big bang etc. do also make alot of sence.

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Lazzo
I'm gonna stick with Creation, faith is faith.

 

But natural selection is a very valid fact.

blink.gif Uhm,wait, what?! That makes even less sense than most peoples' reasons for believing in creation.

He probably applies both theories together. That is possible.

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addisonpeterson

I believe in both Darwins theory and God's creation. What if God made all living things on Earth to evolve over time due to climate and enviroment changes. I'm quite sure when God created Adam & Eve and their children and their children's, children's, family grew their would eventually be some type of change including the destruction of the planet we are doing now making some creatures extinct so the human race may live on.

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Hooded
I believe in both Darwins theory and God's creation. What if God made all living things on Earth to evolve over time due to climate and enviroment changes. I'm quite sure when God created Adam & Eve and their children and their children's, children's, family grew their would eventually be some type of change including the destruction of the planet we are doing now making some creatures extinct so the human race may live on.

You read my mind.

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BenMillard

If a creator-god created everything (which is impossible) and if humans are the most cherished of god's creations, why did he let the Universe run for 14 billion years before letting apes very slowly turn into humans? It seems like we were added in as something of an afterthought. Now that we have gotten a reasonable idea of just how enourmous the Universe is thanks to devices like the Hubble Space Telescope, it becomes apparent that we have been given an incomprehensibly small, dull, unimportant little armpit of the universe in which to spin around a mediocre star on a largely uninhabitable planet.

 

Specifically regarding the Christian/Jewish/Muslim God, how come it is only very recently (past couple of thousand years) that humans have become aware of their creator? And how come there are several different versions of him/her/it?

Answer: God is an ancient human invention.

 

Creationism states that everything was created in some sort of Devine Moment. Absolutely everything. All the galaxies, planets, asteriods, stars, trees, internet forums, animals, vegetables and so on. It was an idea invented by people before they realised that all these things slowly assembled by chance, without any hint of Devine Plan. Our Solar System is much younger than the Universe as a whole and planet Earth is younger still. Various species of animal have evolved, lived, become extinct, been replaced and had their bones dug up millions of years later by apes with trowels. All animals were not created at the same time, thus Creationism is utterly wrong.

 

Evolution isn't perfect but no knowledge can be perfect due to how faulted human memory is* and so one uses the reliability of ideas to judge how certain one can be in their application. The results from Evolution correlate with archielogical findings extremely well; better than any other theory yet devised. Creationism does not match up with any measurement of how life has developed on Earth, how the Solar System was formed or any other process which has taken place...ever. It can be safely discarded.

 

 

Creationism raises more questions than it answers (mainly because it doesn't answer anything) and this is because it was invented to prevent citizens from finding out how the world around them really operated. If they ever found out the truth of how Nature operates then these citizens would realise how the religious institutions were stifling the population's intellect to retain control over them. Which is the situation we have today; people realise that religions are an old, redundant method of social organisation

for which there is no longer any need.

 

 

(EDIT) *Incidentally, an easy way to see that the Universe was not created by a perfect being is that it is full of imperfections and really stupid design flaws. Such as humans having faulty memories.

Edited by Cerbera

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Lwekk

I completly agree with you

 

much of what we know from evolution is based on phylogenics, and the fossil record. Though Evolution is not observable on the large scale it is a much better explanation than the idea that a God created this planet.

 

According to classical Creationism the earth was created something like 3,000 years ago, well we know that this isnt true from the fossil record which dates back 3.5 billion years.

 

Creationism also argues that know one did observe Evolution, therefor it did not exist.

granted we have only viewed evolution on a very small scale, we have not whitnessed anything remotly close to god creating the universe at all. soe argue that the bible is proof of creationism, how ever the bible was written by man over 1000 years after "god" created the universe.

 

People in the past belived that the earth was flat, and that the earth was the center of the universe because god made it that way. After time it has been proven that we were wrong about that, and given more time Im sure science will disprove Creationism, and granted some people will refute this proff saying that it is impossible. to those people I say what do you think of your faith now that it has been disproven?

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Tril

I believe in evolution, I believe not only the world but the universe

was always there. The universe had organisms that evolved and

we evolved from ones on Earth. I find those who believe in 'god'

to be stubborn people. Because most deny facts that may prove

them wrong. Also the ones I know say everything was created.

SO I say than what created 'god' and they just say he was always

there or his 'god' created him. SO 1:Your just contridicting yourself

because if everything was made than 'god' would've had to been

made. AND 2: If 'god' was created by a 'god' and that god was

created by a god than thats just impossible because it would keep

going on and there would be no begining or no end, so how could

that make sense?

 

If I offended you with things I said oh well...

DEAL WITH IT!

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