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BenMillard

Conventional gets Colourised

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BenMillard

About a week ago illspirit applied the colourised versions I had made for the Conventional scheme. They still have some little bugs and inconsistencies (fewer than the original skins) but most of these have been fixed ready for the next update, whenever illspirit has time.

 

You can preview this topic using the skins in the Coventional range via these links:-

  • Conventional - the original one which now uses fainter greys and less saturation in the links..
  • Conventional Afterfuture - inspired by illspirit's "afterfuture" skin for GTAF.
  • Conventional GTAnet - based upon the blue GTA3 inspired skin by Tank and illspirit and some of the simplified styling cues in Azkoyen's lite edition of that scheme.
  • Conventional Militant - based upon the skin of the same name illspirit made for the Gouranga! Forums, it is bascially a green camoflage skin.
I am thinking about making a "Conventional Veteran" skin based upon the yellow and grey "Old Skool" skin from years ago, a "Conventional Vice" based upon the blue and pink "Vice City Dot Com" and a brown and green "Conventional SanAn" skin based upon GTAnet's site for GTASA.

 

Below is a lump of forum code so you can see how all the major post formatting tags look from the previews.

 

 

Yay, now I can do some work. smile.gif

 

 

Inner quote.
Outer quote
Testing quotes.

 

 


Inner quote.
Outer quote

Testing code.

 

 

Cerbera is testing the ME tag.

 

GTA' date=' GTA London 1969 & GTA London 1961

 

Title Description Updated
Coding: Ambient Events Code samples of side missions I devised before GTA3 did them. 2004-12-21
Coding: Comments How to add comments to code. Commented original missions included. 2004-12-21
Coding: Insane Stunts Guide to creating a stunt on a new map. Includes code and map to work with. 2004-12-21
Coding: Mission Cleanup Explains how best to code your mission endings. 2004-12-21
Coding: PARK Guide to letting the user park cars in garages. 2005-01-14
Coding: Random Pager How the random pager messages work. Includes code sample. 2004-12-21
Coding: Reference Compilation of parameter lists, command techniques and code sample. 2004-12-21
Coding: SENDTO How to set up and use this powerful vehicle AI. 2004-12-21
Coding: Smallest Here is the minimum code you can use for the GTA1 levels. 2004-12-26
Information: Characters List of all the characters who are mentioned. 2004-12-21
Setup: Important Editors The most useful tools and files. 2005-01-06
That was a test of the USERTABLE class.

 

GTA, GTA London 1969 & GTA London 1961

 

Title Description Updated
Coding: Ambient Events Code samples of side missions I devised before GTA3 did them. 2004-12-21
Coding: Comments How to add comments to code. Commented original missions included. 2004-12-21
Coding: Insane Stunts Guide to creating a stunt on a new map. Includes code and map to work with. 2004-12-21
Coding: Mission Cleanup Explains how best to code your mission endings. 2004-12-21
Coding: PARK Guide to letting the user park cars in garages. 2005-01-14
Coding: Random Pager How the random pager messages work. Includes code sample. 2004-12-21
Coding: Reference Compilation of parameter lists, command techniques and code sample. 2004-12-21
Coding: SENDTO How to set up and use this powerful vehicle AI. 2004-12-21
Coding: Smallest Here is the minimum code you can use for the GTA1 levels. 2004-12-26
Information: Characters List of all the characters who are mentioned. 2004-12-21
Setup: Important Editors The most useful tools and files. 2005-01-06
That was a test of the normal table.

 

This is a test of the SPOILER tag.

 

 

Testing lists:-

 

Item 1

 

Item 2

 

Item 2A

 

Item 2B

 

 

Item 3

 

Item 4

 

Item 4A

 

Item 4Ai

 

Item 4Aii

 

Item 4Aiii

 

 

Item 4B

 

Item 4Bi

 

Item 4Bii

 

Item 4Biii

 

 

 

user posted image

Testing image hyperlinks.

Testing all the codes in a QUOTE layer on a different post background. Testing them when double-quoted. Below is testing outside of quote layers:

 

 

Inner quote.
Outer quoteTesting quotes.

 

 


Inner quote.
Outer quote

Testing code.

 

 

Cerbera is testing the ME tag.

 

GTA, GTA London 1969 & GTA London 1961

 

Title Description Updated
Coding: Ambient Events Code samples of side missions I devised before GTA3 did them. 2004-12-21
Coding: Comments How to add comments to code. Commented original missions included. 2004-12-21
Coding: Insane Stunts Guide to creating a stunt on a new map. Includes code and map to work with. 2004-12-21
Coding: Mission Cleanup Explains how best to code your mission endings. 2004-12-21
Coding: PARK Guide to letting the user park cars in garages. 2005-01-14
Coding: Random Pager How the random pager messages work. Includes code sample. 2004-12-21
Coding: Reference Compilation of parameter lists, command techniques and code sample. 2004-12-21
Coding: SENDTO How to set up and use this powerful vehicle AI. 2004-12-21
Coding: Smallest Here is the minimum code you can use for the GTA1 levels. 2004-12-26
Information: Characters List of all the characters who are mentioned. 2004-12-21
Setup: Important Editors The most useful tools and files. 2005-01-06
That was a test of the USERTABLE class.

 

GTA, GTA London 1969 & GTA London 1961

 

Title Description Updated
Coding: Ambient Events Code samples of side missions I devised before GTA3 did them. 2004-12-21
Coding: Comments How to add comments to code. Commented original missions included. 2004-12-21
Coding: Insane Stunts Guide to creating a stunt on a new map. Includes code and map to work with. 2004-12-21
Coding: Mission Cleanup Explains how best to code your mission endings. 2004-12-21
Coding: PARK Guide to letting the user park cars in garages. 2005-01-14
Coding: Random Pager How the random pager messages work. Includes code sample. 2004-12-21
Coding: Reference Compilation of parameter lists, command techniques and code sample. 2004-12-21
Coding: SENDTO How to set up and use this powerful vehicle AI. 2004-12-21
Coding: Smallest Here is the minimum code you can use for the GTA1 levels. 2004-12-26
Information: Characters List of all the characters who are mentioned. 2004-12-21
Setup: Important Editors The most useful tools and files. 2005-01-06
That was a test of the normal table.

 

This is a test of the SPOILER tag.

 

Testing lists:-

  1. Item 1
  2. Item 2
    1. Item 2A
    2. Item 2B
  3. Item 3
  4. Item 4
    1. Item 4A
      1. Item 4Ai
      2. Item 4Aii
      3. Item 4Aiii
    2. Item 4B
      1. Item 4Bi
      2. Item 4Bii
      3. Item 4Biii
user posted image

Testing image hyperlinks.

Edited by Cerbera

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Johnno

All of those skins make me want to gouge my eyes out, as Data would say.

I would expect much better from a professional-ish web developer.

 

It is easy to make a website that any computer likes.

It is hard to make a website that any user likes.

 

 

I am thinking about making a "Conventional Veteran" skin based upon the yellow and grey "Old Skool" skin from years ago, a "Conventional Vice" based upon the blue and pink "Vice City Dot Com" and a brown and green "Conventional SanAn" skin based upon GTAnet's site for GTASA.

My advice: Don't.

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# ###########
I personally don't like it. I'm sorry. It's just not my thing.

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Svip

What I hate most about them is that I have to turn my browser's text size.

 

Make it love allready!

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BenMillard

 

All of those skins make me want to gouge my eyes out, as Data would say.

I would expect much better from a professional-ish web developer.

 

It is easy to make a website that any computer likes.

It is hard to make a website that any user likes.

 

 

I am thinking about making a "Conventional Veteran" skin based upon the yellow and grey "Old Skool" skin from years ago, a "Conventional Vice" based upon the blue and pink "Vice City Dot Com" and a brown and green "Conventional SanAn" skin based upon GTAnet's site for GTASA.
My advice: Don't.This makes no sense at all. They use exactly the same colours as skins already present on GTAF, or using colours illspirit developed in the case of the Militant one. Don't you like any of the GTAF skins? How on earth do you use these forums if all the skins are so unpleasant?

 

If you can show how these skins are so unpleasant, so unbearably straining on your senses, then please do. I'm still rather confused about how this can be when you use these forums with other skins that have the same colours in the same places apparently without problem.

 

 

(EDIT) Svip, what browser are you using? These skins should just use whatever your settings are.

Edited by Cerbera

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jelly
All of those skins make me want to gouge my eyes out, as Data would say.

I would expect much better from a professional-ish web developer.

 

It is easy to make a website that any computer likes.

It is hard to make a website that any user likes.

 

 

I am thinking about making a "Conventional Veteran" skin based upon the yellow and grey "Old Skool" skin from years ago, a "Conventional Vice" based upon the blue and pink "Vice City Dot Com" and a brown and green "Conventional SanAn" skin based upon GTAnet's site for GTASA.
My advice: Don't.
This makes no sense at all. They use exactly the same colours as skins already present on GTAF, or using colours illspirit developed in the case of the Militant one. Don't you like any of the GTAF skins? How on earth do you use these forums if all the skins are so unpleasant?

 

Of course, the truth is that you don't hate the colours at all. You are just persuing a petty dislike of me, which is more than a little pathetic. Especially for a member of staff in what is supposed to be a serious area. Still, you are only 15 so I guess such immaturity is to be expected.

 

If you can show how these skins are so unpleasant, so unbearably straining on your senses then please do. I'm still rather confused about how this can be when you use these forums with other skins that have the same colours in the same places apparently without problem.

If you can show how these skins are so unpleasant, so unbearably straining on your senses then please do. I'm still rather confused about how this can be when you use these forums with other skins that have the same colours in the same places apparently without problem.

 

you can't SHOW THIS. you can feel that it is unpleasant to look at. your skins are unpleasant to look at. do a poll if you don't believe me.

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MyMothersMySister

your skins are unpleasant to look at. do a poll if you don't believe me.

I'm tempted.

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Svip
(EDIT) Svip, what browser are you using? These skins should just use whatever your settings are.

Firefox of couse.

 

I know that, but I am just saying it is annoying that I have to set it, because on some other sites I want it larger.

 

I would prefere if the font size was small.

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fred

 

This makes no sense at all.  They use exactly the same colours as skins already present on GTAF, or using colours illspirit developed in the case of the Militant one.  Don't you like any of the GTAF skins?  How on earth do you use these forums if all the skins are so unpleasant?

 

If you can show how these skins are so unpleasant, so unbearably straining on your senses, then please do.  I'm still rather confused about how this can be when you use these forums with other skins that have the same colours in the same places apparently without problem.

The colours might be bearable. The rest is not.

 

If your conventional skins looked identical to the original ones, yes, you'd have a point.. but they don't.

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Johnno

This makes no sense at all. They use exactly the same colours as skins already present on GTAF, or using colours illspirit developed in the case of the Militant one. Don't you like any of the GTAF skins? How on earth do you use these forums if all the skins are so unpleasant?

 

I love the colour schemes of most skins here at GTAF. Most are works of art, and should be hung in a gallery.

They are the sort of colour schemes any web developer envies.

And the colours in your new skins are also great, becuase someone with a little more creativity has spent time finding the perfect blend of colours.

 

What I don't like about your skins is:

 

The design is terrible.

 

Now, i'm a huge fan of minimalism, but I don't believe you have grasped the concept of it.

 

There are gaps, of nothing (in every browser), which just make the eyes follow a completely different trail to where the valuable content is.

 

The text is huge, and I (or the average user) IS NOT going to spend 10 minutes fiddling around with their browser, just to make the text look acceptable, then have to change it back before resuming browsing.

People will not do that.

Perhaps this is why very few people like your skins, and hardly anyone uses them.

 

There are asteriks instead of Karma?

The damn karma image is less than 1kb!

(it's little things like that annoy the heck out of me)

 

 

Of course, the truth is that you don't hate the colours at all. You are just persuing a petty dislike of me, which is more than a little pathetic. Especially for a member of staff in what is supposed to be a serious area. Still, you are only 15 so I guess such immaturity is to be expected.

I love the colours. I've already admitted that. I never said I didn't.

 

Furthermore, I do dislike you.

However, when judging these skins, I do not take this into consideration. If Az made some skins like these (heaven forbid), i'd have the same amount of disapproval.

 

I am a serious member, I make valid comments, and I back-up my statements.

Why do you think I was made led-by?

Because I like peanuts?

 

Yes, i'm 15. You were once 15.

I don't see what that has to do with this topic. Many people mistake me for much older, becuase of my maturity.

 

I'd love to see a poll started.

 

By the way, I use Azkoyen's Lite skin, and it pwns any of your skins.

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magical_trevor

Just thought i'd add something I noticed when previewing those skins (I am too lazy to actually apply them and check if it still happens at the moment, but I will later if you want).. when the window (I'm using IE) is not maximized, the sidebar is pushed down below the posts, and only moves into proper position when the window is expanded to full size, however, with the default skin, the sidebar always stays in the right place and you get a horizontal scroll bar to compensate...

Sorry if this was already known..

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Waste

I have been testing these today to see what they are like, and I have to agree with everyone else that they are not very appealing.

The horizontal rules near the link tree and the user controls at the top don't fit well with them.

You should use a table or a div instead.

While these are very lite on your browser, it just doesn't make sense to go crazy and make these pages that small since more and more people are getting broadband.

I mean, even if you have 56K, your browser's cache will take care of most images once downloaded.

 

They do have a clean appearance and work fairly well (Besides the text size being too big), but could use some work done to them.

Like the area where the new post indicators are could actually use some images instead of the color changing.

It would just look better.

 

As far as the text goes, you could use CSS and a drop down menu to change the text size.

That way people could have it as large or small as they wanted and not have to change settings.

Not many people will go out of thier way to change thier browser settings for one site, let alone one skin.

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red_porshe
Ive been using the gta net one for a couple of days now and this is what i think.Imo this skin is good if you are using a mobile because it doesnt take ages to load and is displayed ok but if you are using it on a pc or a laptop its just too boring. Such as no border around the side bar or karma stars like johnno said. And also no background like on the gta original skin which makes it plain. And theres no logo in the top corner either.The box where the writing is placed is too dark to read on your Conventional GTAnet skin especialy when people use dark text.And the text being too big also bugs me when im using firefox.If you made the text bolder like where it says 'log out' 'view new posts' and 'my assistant' would make it better to look at. But as i said before its good for a mobile device but not a pc or a laptop.

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BenMillard

I have tweaked all the skins and illspirit is applying them to GTAF as I am typing this. The changes are mainly just refinining the colours. The original Conventional scheme now actually looks a bit like I intended it to; giving the boards a soft but clear appearence. Well, sort of. The other skins are just a bit tidier now and I have tweaked the Legends section at the bottom of forum listings and search results. Topic icons got a bit of a fiddle as well.

 

The other change has been adding "accesskey" codes to some common functions. Previewing a message (post or PM) can now be done by pressing ALT+W, which basically clicks the "Preview message" button for you. Submitting a message can now be done by pressing ALT+S and in a couple of the common forms, such as Edit Signature, it will submit that data as well. Pressing ALT+R returns you to the start of the page but IE normally just highlights the link which it uses without actually clicking it. So you'll have to use ALT+R and then ENTER or RETURN to get back to the top in IE. Or just do it as you normally would.

 

I think the next step will be to take a break from this for a while whilst I develop my company website and re-jiggle Project Cerbera. I'll fix any bugs which get reported but probably won't do any major developments to it for a couple of weeks/months.

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Luke2004

I personally think you should resort all of your skins, I've got a 56k and for a while I did use you skins, as they're more friendly, but, the text sometimes is too big or overlaps the border. The colours don't clash, did you think of:

When you click an hyperlink the text goes into a darker colour and if the background is dark it's going to make it harder to read, and if that's the case no-body will use you skin as most people don't really want to have to move themselves closer to the screen to see what the text is. Also, most post wrappers don't go with your skins, I'm ok as mine doesn't have a colour, but on your 'Conventional' skin (the first plain one) I had to highlight most text to be able to read it, maybe if you could make a special option for you skins to make a 'all posts are:' and then make a colour that people will read easily, for example on the white background black on the black background white.

 

 

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Tsuroki
< I must admit, GTANet Conventional doesn't look half bad if you adjust the font size... I managed to fool around with my font settings & get it working, looks okay (for the most part, a few flaws, but it's ok. The design is nothing compared to Azko's version, mind you.) /> Edited by Tsuroki

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BenMillard

 

I personally think you should resort all of your skins, I've got a 56k and for a while I did use you skins, as they're more friendly, but, the text sometimes is too big or overlaps the border. The colours don't clash, did you think of:

When you click an hyperlink the text goes into a darker colour and if the background is dark it's going to make it harder to read, and if that's the case no-body will use you skin as most people don't really want to have to move themselves closer to the screen to see what the text is. Also, most post wrappers don't go with your skins, I'm ok as mine doesn't have a colour, but on your 'Conventional' skin (the first plain one) I had to highlight most text to be able to read it, maybe if you could make a special option for you skins to make a 'all posts are:' and then make a colour that people will read easily, for example on the white background black on the black background white. 

 

 

I have been re-jiggling hyperlink colours so that the different states are still easy to see without the visited links becoming too dark to read comfortably. I shifted the link colours on Conventional GTAnet about #111 lighter and then shifted the visited link state a further #111 lighter, so it should be easier to read on dark backgrounds now. Only the Conventional by Cerbera skin really has issues with post colours but so does Hashcake with light colours and $$H with dark colours. NYC Connection doesn't show medium-dark desaturated colours too well and some people do use them.

 

Other skins struggle with colours members have used in decorative topics or in their signatures...it isn't really something that can be avoided since users only test their colours in the skin they always use. If the colours were applied differently then I could override their style information from a simple entry in the Conventional stylesheets but the way the forum software adds the colours makes this impossible. For the technically-minded, the forum uses inline styles which obviously cannot be overruled by an external stylesheet.

 

I'd be happy to have all the stuff which allows users to specify their own font colour removed so that these problems would not arise. I don't think that would be popular though since some people are really fond of their font colour, despite them often looking terrible or even being invisible in other skins.

 

 

< I must admit, GTANet Conventional doesn't look half bad if you adjust the font size... I managed to fool around with my font settings & get it working, looks okay (for the most part, a few flaws, but it's ok. The design is nothing compared to Azko's version, mind you.) />
The easy temporary method is just to click the browser menu which reduces font size, or use the keyboard shortcut. When using good browsers, setting the normal and minimum font sizes should make it fine to use and those settings will ensure every site you visit uses a font size you are comfortable with. Well worth the time to do it, which is maybe something you have noticed since trying it?

 

Can you be more specific about what flaws you have found? I have been working on some updates to fix some obscure little bugs like duplicated rows in the legend of the search results, the missing "Location" field in the user profile and stuff like that. I've also been making some structural refinements so the member controls are in a colourised cell instead of being straight onto the body colour with horizontal rules between the advert, member bar and breadcrumb navigation row. So, some of the niggles you are finding could well be fixed in the next update.

 

Things like being able to just press ALT+W to Preview a post or PM, ALT+S to Submit a post or PM and ALT+R to scroll straight to the top of the page make it a lot easier for people in a hurry. This is also helped by much faster loading times and the simpler markup speeding up rendering times. I've been removing the scripts which delete the contents of some text fields when you select them, which is always annoying. I'm really glad I made these skins and will continue to improve them.

 

I have been trying to make stylable buttons like Azkoyen did but havn't come up with a method that works when floated alongside the <h2> element.

 

(EDIT) You can view the latest versions of the skins on the GTAForums Test Boards.

Edited by Cerbera

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BenMillard

Illspirit transferred the updated versions of the Conventional skins to GTAForums today. Changes are mainly bug fixes and some extra styling to things. Text is now justified except for links, which are left aligned to prevent navigation lists from looking totally weird. Also fixed some bugs in Topic Options section and a few other odds and ends. Made some slight re-arrangements to a few parts of the board, notably the "Return to Top" link is in the top-left of the copyright cell rather than buried underneath it.

 

Since the boards are getting so much traffic these days, using the Conventional skins can greatly speed up your foruming. Due to the main layout not being set up as a table and because the content is placed above the navigation in the source code, posts and topic listings can be rendered while the page is still downloading the navigation. All the other skins download that big navigation list before the content. This means you can get reading much earlier in Conventional.

 

The reduction of images means that when viewing topic lists in IE the icons are immediatly visible, rather than them slowly popping up or just failing to load. Furthermore, the Conventional skins are highly resizable so that 800x600 screens (and smaller) do not get horizontal scrollbars while 1600x1200 (and larger) get a wider navigation list to make use of the extra space. Also, text inputs resize to fill the available space and post boxes have lots of lines to make maximum use of the available area. The other skins use fixed widths and very few rows, which makes writing messages feel like keyhole surgery.

 

 

Don't be stupid! Use the Conventional skins! tounge.gif

Edited by Cerbera

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