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Enano

Best type of government

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RearEndCollision
this is going to be an asshole of an answer but, the best type of government is the type that actually works...Think about it.

Tet said probally the best answer, because it's never a clear cut answer, it just depends on the individual situation.

 

And for the record everyone, America isn't a democracy, at all in fact. We are a complete republic, nothing else. People lost sight of that a long time ago, but if you care to look it up, that's what it is.

 

Democracy is a worse choice then communism, because a real democracy would require citizens to vote for every single thing that goes on in the government. This would cost so much money, time, and energy, and would keep things from ever getting done.

 

If I had to choose, I'd say a republic, but without the house, and etc... Basically, just where we elect a group of leaders(disband the presidental cabnet) and they rule. Say, for example, one per state, and then the president, vice president, and sec of state. But, run all elections seperate, (ie, president and vice president run seperate, as well as sex of state.) Making 53 votes total, and allowing for a more equal system.

 

PS - Sorry for using America as the example, but it's what I know the best.

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Mafia Righthand_Man

Well, if there was to be an anarchy, the people better damn well be educated by then about being good to others or whatever because you're gonna have rapists, murderers, etc. out of prisons and on the streets killing, etc. And if an anarchy were to come, don't expect many of the services you have now to continue working. Electric, water, all that other good stuff would be gone because there would be little to no workers willing to go to work. They would probably rather go steal for a living rather than go back to work where there is no one to pay them. Unless you are planning on living without these things.

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spoof

 

this is going to be an asshole of an answer but, the best type of government is the type that actually works...Think about it
Tet said probally the best answer, because it's never a clear cut answer, it just depends on the individual situation.

 

 

Unfortunately, the western world in which most of us live isn’t based on mere rhetoric alone.

 

The only reality of life is that life doesn’t owe us a damn thing. The people that b!tch about such things are those that have yet to truly experience what it means to “live life” (or at least try)......................

 

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RearEndCollision

With an anarchy(which is impossible with the actual thought of it) there would be no education, because who would pay the teachers? If there was a form of government even just paying the bills, then right there the anarchy is dead.

 

I also think it's funny because there are "leaders" of anarchy's, which just like the above thing, kills the actual idea of anarchy.

 

In conclusion, anarchy = an idealistic idea that is impossible.

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spoof

 

anarchy = an idealistic idea that is impossible

…..at least in the medium to long-term.

 

In the short term – Yeah!

 

Do whatever the f*ck you feel like – be anarchistic!!!!

 

Why are members having such a hard time in dealing with the actual concept of anarchy?

 

Perhaps it is because some of them haven’t the first f*cking clue what it is they’re attempting to talk about.

 

 

Say it isn’t so wow.gif

 

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SWEETSAPRIK
With an anarchy(which is impossible with the actual thought of it) there would be no education, because who would pay the teachers? If there was a form of government even just paying the bills, then right there the anarchy is dead.

 

I also think it's funny because there are "leaders" of anarchy's, which just like the above thing, kills the actual idea of anarchy.

 

In conclusion, anarchy = an idealistic idea that is impossible.

You I like.

 

gtame failed to realize:

Who builds the schools, fills it with books, gives scholarships to people so they can become teachers, pays the teachers.

He seriously thought that if there were no governments at all, people would just live in peace and harmony.

 

Government keeps the oil coming in for our cars, and to heat our houses, and keeps the internet working, and the electricity, and the roads.....

 

Oh wait I forgot, him and the four other "educated anarchists" are going to do all of that while feeding themselves, and making their own toilet paper, and fighting off the hoardes of "noneducated" people that just want to kill each other for their sh!t.

 

And yes as you mentioned RearEndCollision if they did bother to take up those responsibilites, they would have in fact become a form of government. A stupid one doomed to failure, but a government none the less. Governing isn't just about laws, it's about making things work.

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RearEndCollision

 

anarchy = an idealistic idea that is impossible

…..at least in the medium to long-term.

 

In the short term – Yeah!

 

Do whatever the f*ck you feel like – be anarchistic!!!!

 

Why are members having such a hard time in dealing with the actual concept of anarchy?

 

Perhaps it is because some of them haven’t the first f*cking clue what it is they’re attempting to talk about.

 

 

Say it isn’t so wow.gif

True enough, but the second someone starts to lead, or do anything structured, the anarchy is dead.

 

And, the problem people have with it is the whole "hardcore" sh*t. Being an anarchist is like being badass, and the problem is the people that try to act like anachry is the best thing since sliced bread, and yet seem to know nothing about it actually(example : gtame.)

 

Edit: Just noticed a bit I missed and I just had to comment on it, because the comment is just outright stupid.

 

Hey, a good example of an anarchistic society that worked is the Indians.  They had no government system in place, they just had all the same morals and they lived in peace for the longest time until the f*ckin' Americans came in and had to f*ck sh*t up.

 

Now I must ask, do you know what a cheif is? He would be their form of government, because unlike mindless dolts, you have to realize that not everything is a 'White House' type of government.

 

Edited by RearEndCollision

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Hurricane5

 

Democracy is excellent form of government when you take all the corruption out.

This man speaks truth.

 

Some of Anarchism's concepts are awesome. But like stated above, that would be the best government.

 

Ohh, and on that note...

 

user posted image

 

Anarchism, mother f*cker. wink.gif

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spoof

 

but the second someone starts to lead, or do anything structured, the anarchy is dead.

 

 

Hence my previous derision of those that use the term “anarchy” with such flippancy wink.gif

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dr zoidberg

Hold on, since when did America cease to be a democracy? Last time I checked you elected your politicians.

 

If you're saying it's not a true democracy, then you are right, but then a perfect democracy is impossible.

 

I don't know if any system of government is "better" than the other, but obviously extremes like communism and fascism do not work in a pure form, and have to be watered down. This is the same for democracy also. It's not perfect, but it's the best we have.

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gtame

Okay, you guys can chose what you want, but I'm just stating what I think. As I've said before, anarchy is simply an ideal. I never said people would live in peace and harmony, did I? Oh, and there are such things as privatly owned schools. But I'm sorry if I word things that aren't to your exact liking, but I really don't give a sh*t.

 

Oh, and no, I don't live in a nice, warm house with a PC my parents bought for me. I don't get to eat dinner most of the time, and I just have to wear a f*cking jacket indoors. My PC? Yeah, I bought it with my own money.

 

And the cheif was just the most respected elder... not really a government sytem, to say. Or, at least, according to the history teachers in my school.

 

And spoof: I do like marshies in my beddie-bye time chocky wocky.

 

But if you like, you can call me an idiot and all the like.. it really doesn't matter, because you guys are just nitpicking at what I say.

 

EDIT: I'd just like to say.. I never said an anarchistic society is possible right now. As I've said, most anarchists realize that it is impossible and it's only an ideal. But wahtever, I guess when I say that it's only an ideal it doesn't count for anything.

Edited by gtame

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Krelian

There's no such thing as a best government. Some types are better suited to different sizes and situations, and all of them have different strengths and weaknesses.

 

For example, if you're looking for strength and efficiency then you'll be hard-pressed to beat a totalitarian dictatorship. When things depend on more people coming to an agreement on something, it's much harder to get something accomplished. But on the flip side, if the dictator isn't concerned about the welfare of his/her people then you have a bad situation.

 

A democracy is hard to manage on a large scale, but republics (like the USA, it's not a democracy) capture at least some of the democratic ideal while keeping the number of people who vote on the actual issues manageable. Could you imagine if America was a true democracy and relied on the entire population to make budget decisions? Americans can't keep themselves informed about two presidential candidates, let alone grasp the ins and outs of every situation that comes under scrutiny.

 

The problem with governments is that they don't tend to account for human nature enough. They look wonderful in thought and ideal, but are far less effective solutions in reality. The fact of the matter is that people are easily corrupted, on the whole, if they have enough power at their fingertips. Things may be excellent on a small scale... take communism for example. It works well for hippies in small groups, but as the size of the governed group grows, so does the amount of power and influence that certain key people have.

 

Communism sucks because someone has to be in charge of rationing things out, dictatorships suck because dictators have far too much power, republics suck because people can't rely on their elected officials to truly represent them, capitalism sucks because people are greedy, democracies suck because they rely on people to be informed and to agree, anarchy sucks because you aren't the only one free to do whatever you like... and the list goes on.

 

Basically, if you have even a remote grasp of human nature and reality, you'll see that there's really no perfect government. It's a matter of finding a system that best fits the needs of a certain group and the circumstances it's created under.

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Mafia Righthand_Man
There's no such thing as a best government. Some types are better suited to different sizes and situations, and all of them have different strengths and weaknesses.

 

For example, if you're looking for strength and efficiency then you'll be hard-pressed to beat a totalitarian dictatorship. When things depend on more people coming to an agreement on something, it's much harder to get something accomplished. But on the flip side, if the dictator isn't concerned about the welfare of his/her people then you have a bad situation.

 

A democracy is hard to manage on a large scale, but republics (like the USA, it's not a democracy) capture at least some of the democratic ideal while keeping the number of people who vote on the actual issues manageable. Could you imagine if America was a true democracy and relied on the entire population to make budget decisions? Americans can't keep themselves informed about two presidential candidates, let alone grasp the ins and outs of every situation that comes under scrutiny.

 

The problem with governments is that they don't tend to account for human nature enough. They look wonderful in thought and ideal, but are far less effective solutions in reality. The fact of the matter is that people are easily corrupted, on the whole, if they have enough power at their fingertips. Things may be excellent on a small scale... take communism for example. It works well for hippies in small groups, but as the size of the governed group grows, so does the amount of power and influence that certain key people have.

 

Communism sucks because someone has to be in charge of rationing things out, dictatorships suck because dictators have far too much power, republics suck because people can't rely on their elected officials to truly represent them, capitalism sucks because people are greedy, democracies suck because they rely on people to be informed and to agree, anarchy sucks because you aren't the only one free to do whatever you like... and the list goes on.

 

Basically, if you have even a remote grasp of human nature and reality, you'll see that there's really no perfect government. It's a matter of finding a system that best fits the needs of a certain group and the circumstances it's created under.

Beautiful post, well done. cookie.gif

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RearEndCollision

 

And the cheif was just the most respected elder... not really a government sytem, to say.  Or, at least, according to the history teachers in my school.

Then I feel really bad for you, because your teachers are morons. The cheif was the leader of their tribe, which would function as their form of government. Think of them as a ruler, and the elders are his advisors.

 

@Krelian - Very well put man.

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The_Real_Deal

Good points from gtame and Barbaneez. Anarchy is the greatest ideal. Anyone who can't see the through the fog isn't listening.

 

In the times we live in now, for a large group of people, like a nation, I would say a Socialist Republic, with a small amount of capitalism built in. France is a great example of how this works, and it does work

 

Since human nature dictates that the majority of people think they know what's best, not only for themselves, but sometimes for everyone else too, any government at all is capable of repression and totalitarianism. We see it in America, which has become very good at manipulating the meaning of their own constitutional laws, making the people think they still have some say, and at being an underhanded international pusher of democracy, which the U.S. has long adopted as their perfect idealogy - That's totalitarianism. ( If Iraq ever becomes a democracy with Starbuck's on every corner, you'll know why. )

 

 

About communist China, not everyone there is considered equal. With so many things "made in China" there are some Chinese who are getting very rich.

 

As has been said, there is no "best" type of government, especially when refering to large groups pf people - like that which populates an entire nation. In my belief, the best government would be no government. but the only way that would work and keep everyone happy is if it were just you and your closest friends and family living on your own little island. Anarchy has been turned into a bad word, but in and of itself, anarchy is not synonomous with utter chaos, only in it's lowest form is it that. Answering to no authority is actually a fine goal.

 

The freedoms of the United States would have been just fine if greed and the hunger for more money and power had not come into play. The rampant, unregulated capitalism which built this country and which has made many people (too) wealthy and (too) powerful has also kept many others down. But the U.S. has done a pretty good job of fostering a fair and free environment for such a large country, even if class discrimination and the never talked about educational discrimination* is still heavy. The flaws come into play as the world moves faster and becomes more complex. Put many people together and you will witness greed, selfishness, and corruption. So to control all of this requires many laws and regulations, some which contradict others and get in the way of living a free life. I think America could use a good old fashioned revolution. Except this time, it wouldn't be the British who are coming, but rather rich stinking politicians who want you to think their you're friends and care about your wellfare when the proof that they only have their own interests at heart is in the pudding. A revolution may be an extreme ideal, but you have to admit, having one cuts through the bullsh*t pretty fast. That's my 99 cents people.

 

 

* Educational discrimination - it's why Mr. College Degree gets a higher paying job than Mr. No Diploma, even though there is often very little or no intellectual destinction between them. I think school credentials were invented mostly so people with no marketable natural talents, ( i.e. most people ) could have a leg up over others in the job market.

Edited by The_Real_Deal

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Forty
This is a great discussion, so I'm gonna move it to D&D.

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jimmy.

 

Democracy looks really good.

Communism can be very scary, just like in China.

Any type of government would be scary in China. Communism could also work someday.

Edited by JIMMY12

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flatblock

Anarchy and Communism work fine... in small communities. It's easy to get along when the population is manageable. If there was a problem, it would be easy to detect and solve. Hell, these systems even work in larger communities, but as the numbers grow, the system becomes hard to maintain. If a population of 30 is Communist, and someone isn't working for the greater good, then it's going to be discovered quite fast. If a population of 3,000,000 is Communist, then the problem is almost impossible to detect. Communism doesn't work because of the need for leadership in any sort of government. Same with Anarchy. Being your own leader is a pretty neat idea, right? Well that works super cool in a Nomadic society, right up until your ass is being conquered the f*ck out. If everyone never had to compete with other people, and no one desired power, then Anarchy would be some cool sh*t. Unfortunately, most people want power in one way or another, and competition is fierce because most people want/need what others posess. Government is kind of like an operating system in that respect. Windows: Dictator Edition, anyone?

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tehhunter

Communism does not/can not work:

 

For true communism to be able to be in practice, all people would have to randomly be assigned a job. This means that your dentist could have formerly been a trash man, a bum, or (*grope*) a registered sex offender. The most educated would not get that which they worked for in the past. Therefore, it cannot exist. Too many stabbings in the eye with a dental scraper.

 

Russian communism worked, but eventually became somewhat dictator-for-life'ish.

 

By the way, capitalism is not a form of government... so I'm not quite sure why I keep seeing people bring it up.

Edited by tehhunter

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Tongue of Colicab

Communism CAN work, you just have to have a good leader who doesn't f*ck everything up.

 

On the anarchy subject:

 

Anarchy isn't a form of government. Its the LACK of government. Such as a religious person is a theist and a non-religious person is an atheist.

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Vanzant
Communism CAN work, you just have to have a good leader who doesn't f*ck everything up.

 

On the anarchy subject:

 

Anarchy isn't a form of government. Its the LACK of government. Such as a religious person is a theist and a non-religious person is an atheist.

I was about to post that after the first two pages. Well put you hit the nail on the head.

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russificator
Communism CAN work, you just have to have a good leader who doesn't f*ck everything up.

 

On the anarchy subject:

 

Anarchy isn't a form of government. Its the LACK of government. Such as a religious person is a theist and a non-religious person is an atheist.

Crappy things only depend on the concrete personalities. System is due to work regardless of the specific features of one or another leader.

 

Anarchy is not a form of government, yes, but a kind of social structure. The 'horizontal' one. There are too many definitions though. Anyways, 'an-archy' is not 'anti-archy'. Kropotkin and Bakunin said it better. Few practical experiences were funny but inevitably led to bloodshed. Google on Nestor Makhno.

 

 

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The_Real_Deal

 

By the way, capitalism is not a form of government... so I'm not quite sure why I keep seeing people bring it up.

True, capitalism is not a form of government, but the presence or lack of it strongly effects how the government operates. Think of how different the U.S. government would be if free commercial enterprise was not such a large part of the picture.

 

And anarchy is not a goverment, this is also true. It's the anti-government. But we can't talk government without bringing up anarchy, so we include it in this discussion.

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Harlem
Communism will never work because humans will never stop being selfish.

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SWEETSAPRIK
By the way, capitalism is not a form of government... so I'm not quite sure why I keep seeing people bring it up.

True, capitalism is not a form of government, but the presence or lack of it strongly effects how the government operates. Think of how different the U.S. government would be if free commercial enterprise was not such a large part of the picture.

 

And anarchy is not a goverment, this is also true. It's the anti-government. But we can't talk government without bringing up anarchy, so we include it in this discussion.

Actually we could talk about government without people bringing there off topic opinions into it, we just didn't in this case.

 

Saying we need to discuss anarchy in a topic entitled "Best type of government" is like saying that a topic entitled "Your favorite meat" wouldn't be complete without a vegitarian talking about how meat is murder. If a topic is called "Your favorite type of apple" then people who are allergic to apples need not post at all.

 

But you at least (unlike most of the others that brought up anarchy) admitted that it was actually the total absence of government, and for that I thank you.

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AllDoItTheSame

Sweetsaprik, i am behind you on the anarchy thing, but i do think that flatblock made a good point about small comunities, and i think that this is one of the main problems with the us now, because with so many politicians everywhere, you can keep tabs on all of them at once.

 

if you think im a dumbass then ill just assume you do, you dont have to say sh*t

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spoof

 

And spoof: I do like marshies in my beddie-bye time chocky wocky

Glad to hear it, personally I couldn’t live without them smile.gif

 

 

There's no such thing as a best government. Some types are better suited to different sizes and situations, and all of them have different strengths and weaknesses

 

“Better suited” is, perhaps, a function of history and culture of any given region, This does not necessarily mean what has worked in the past is applicable in the present and future. I know that that wasn’t what you were insinuating, but it leads on to my next point:

 

Maybe it isn’t about what is best, maybe it is about what is least worse.

 

Perfection and a state of optimal governance is something none of us will ever see. We may read about it (usually written by either political philosophers, or dictators who control the press wink.gif), but we’re not likely to see it in action any time soon.

 

 

 

Basically, if you have even a remote grasp of human nature and reality, you'll see that there's really no perfect government. It's a matter of finding a system that best fits the needs of a certain group and the circumstances it's created under.

 

Agreed, but does any existing political system do this? It can be argued that certain systems do, but such systems tend to exist in very small communities – more in terms of specific (non-industrialised) tribes etc., rather than “countries” per se (a view touched on by flatblock).

 

Isolated incidents will always seek to buck the norm, but as always, the grass can often seem much greener on the other side.

 

 

Anarchy is the greatest ideal. Anyone who can't see the through the fog isn't listening

 

You have read all of this thread, haven’t you? You do realise that as soon as two, or more, people co-operate towards a given end that “anarchy” no longer exists.

 

 

* Educational discrimination - it's why Mr. College Degree gets a higher paying job than Mr. No Diploma, even though there is often very little or no intellectual destinction between them

 

On the flip side, there is often a very great deal of intellectual distinction between them.

 

 

I think school credentials were invented mostly so people with no marketable natural talents, ( i.e. most people ) could have a leg up over others in the job market

 

I’m taking a wild stab in the dark in saying that you don’t have too many academic letters after your name, do you?

 

 

 

Any type of government would be scary in China. Communism could also work someday

 

Very droll smile.gif Depending on which reports you give most credence to, China has either surpassed, or is in the process of surpassing the UK as the 4th largest economy in the world. There’s obviously an argument for it doing something right tounge.gif

 

 

 

Communism CAN work, you just have to have a good leader who doesn't f*ck everything up

 

The problem is that even if you managed to find a “good” leader, after a few of year of being in power, these “good” leaders are often changed by the power and privilege afforded them.

 

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions”

 

“Power corrupts”.

 

Many a good man started out with “good intentions” and then suddenly realised they had a wife with expensive tastes and a couple of kids in expensive private schools. Only after the point of no return do they realise that they have slowly, but surely, compromised their original ideals as a function of their political “role”.

 

Most political philosophies are sound on paper. Unfortunately real life often proves more complex than any theorist can take into account.

 

People are crap, people are fallible. People run all the different types of government there have been, or ever will be.

 

It’s not much of a surprise that things are far from perfect wink.gif

 

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HoodyG

I would have to say the best government would be the one that is openly liberal. I think that national heritage thing is bogus. Sure, people should be able to choose whatever blows their skirt up lifestyle, but shouldn't be limited on the national traditions, e. g. Middle East. The one that doesn't endorse any particular religion, or any religion at all, but lets people decide their beliefs.

Many of you say yeah it's like that now, it's not at all like that. If politicians were more open and less biased about endorsing a particular group of people in order to get votes from the majority, I bet most of you who narrow mindedly live to worship a particular God would be more open to the facts, and have a more liberating lifestyle. Have the God you choose or not have any God at all. The lifestyle you choose. Not what is imposed upon you or “traditional” to the particular region you live in.

Some of you will probably contradict my opinion by giving examples of immigrants who come to US, bringing their heritage, well it’s not really theirs, just what has been ordered to them and now they can’t get rid of it, because they spent a big part of life in a place where such beliefs are essential to acceptance within the ethnic group they lived in.

Liberal governments are the way to go for prosperity in future.

 

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Swarz

A bureaucracy is the best form of government.

 

Throughout my years of studying politics I've come to the conclusion that a huge, sprawling behemoth of a civil service ruling the country is the best form of Government, with perhaps a few elected officials to provide general direction.

 

Why not loads of elections?

Why don't I support lots of elected representatives - simple... the average voter in a nation is stupid. They don't know what the hell they're talking about when they ramble on about political issues. A survey of young people showed that only about 50% could identify Tony Blair, and a significantly lower number IDS (Tory leader at the time) and Charles Kennedy.

 

When asked about parties policies most don't have a clue. When I've asked friends of mine about the EU all but a handful are massively misled by articles printed in 'The Sun' about the relinquishing of sovereignty.

 

Further more, electoral turnout is declining so rapidly that people appear to no longer care for politics. Such is the rate of decline that soon Governments may even lack a viable mandate for governing a nation. sly.gif

 

So why a bureaucracy?

Oh no - unelected officials... run away! Run away!

 

Not quite. Party politics are ridiculous. Whereas one issue may dictate a voters choice of party (e.g. Spain - Zapattero election - Madrid bombings) a Government in many cases will have a majority to enact their entire manifesto, a good proportion of which the voter may dislike or massively oppose. For example, a voter may like the Lib Dems policies on removing University tuition fees, but oppose their tax policies.

 

The civil service runs on three facets - neutral, anonymous and permanent. While these lines have been blurred as of late (e.g Moore - a good day to bury bad news), I still maintain bureaucracy to be the best form of Govt because of the following... their work must be in the best interests of the people of a nation.

 

No political backstabbing or underhandedness, no left or right wing ideologies - just simple, clear cut, best for the people policies. A team of experts, forming the technically best policies for a nation.

 

Sure there won't be political faces to associate with. So what? In a pure bureaucracy there'd be so many checks and balances that the system couldn't be corrupted by an official.

 

Sure the public wouldn't vote their government. So what? The current electoral system wastes so many votes, and turnout is so low... once people see an increase in living standards they really won't give a toss who's in charge.

 

 

 

So, to conclude:

 

Voters = stupid.

Experts = smart.

If Experts have power => better nation.

 

Toodles. smile.gif

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Red Hat Girl

Wow, intense topic. I can't let it end with bureaucracy.

 

I have studied history and people, and come to the conclusion that communism would be the best form of government, the one which best makes use of our resources on the planet and of people. It is a form of democracy but not as is practices here, where democracy exists in different ways for different classes.

 

The problem is the process of getting there (communism). You don't have a revolution and then, boom, you can now have communism. You need a process of socialism, learning how to do everything, people learning how to treat women and how to deal with science (it wouldn't be as was said in another post where garbage workers become dentists, but there would be more people taking on those kinds of endevours and breaking down the mental/manual contradiction). Plus you have all the other countries in the world, you have to relate to them and/or defend yourself from them.

 

A system of communism would need to be world-wide, because of the economic and ideological components, you couldn't have communism in just one country. That's what happened in China and Russia.

 

Its worth really looking at what happened there, both the bad and the good. Lots of books and such are available from different perspectives that together give a real sense.

 

I'd recomend these two intense peices:

 

http://rwor.org/bob_avakian/new_speech/ava...ship_speech.htm

http://rwor.org/a/1262/avakian-epistemology.htm

 

Its also worth looking at what's going on in Nepal right now. There is a socialist revolution which has already installed socialist governement policies in the countryside where they hold power, in confrontation with the King.

 

(There's a lot of articles about that, although its hard to get anything from news sources in Nepal because of the Kings Gag order, this is the most recent article I could find):

 

http://rwor.org/a/001/nepal-daring-of-revolution.htm

 

There's also these books:

Dispatches from the People's War in Nepal

Himalayan People's War: Nepal's Maoist Rebellion

 

True this is currently practiced in the country sides and not nationally, so it may be easier to maintain. You need a centralist government but mass inititive.

 

As far as Democracy goes, as in what we have in this country, it's like they said on the Simpsons, "when will people learn, Democracy doesn't work!"

 

Oh, and leadership is very important. Leaders can make a huge difference in society, that's true in any society, even an anarchistic one would have leadership in some form.

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