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D Jones

Terri Schiavo

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millermagic
I believe that she should at least be killed in a more humane way. Being without food or water for 1.5 weeks must be complete hell.

That's why I thnk they should use something like syonide(sp)

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LordDiablo
But if she can't feel anything then it's not really torture.

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mikehaze
Face it: Terri is dead. She tried to kill herself. The husband thinks she should be allowed to die now. He is the head of her family. At her wedding, the father handed over his daughter to him. Ergo, he is in the position to decide her fate. Not the parents. Not the government. Not Bush. No one but him is eligable to decide this, and anyone who says anything else is misinformed.

Besides your beloved television and internet, how can you prove she is brain dead? How can you prove the husband isn't responsible? How can you prove how much her life costs to maintain? Your media? Way to be informed. Oh, and the "husband" your defending is civily married and has two children with another woman in case you didn't know. There's as much proof of her telling her husband of her wishes as there is of her telling her parents those wishes. According to the parents, she told them she was abused by him before: why is it courts will believe the husband's claim and not that of the parents'?

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Eviscero
The issue regarding removing her feeding tube is not that she is an unproductive member of society, but that she has stated previously, to several witnesses, that should she ever be in a position as she is in now, she would not like to be kept alive by artificial means.

Precisely my point. It has nothing to do with how much it costs to keep her alive or whether or not she is worth keeping alive. It's about whose right it is to decide that. I'd say it's her husband's considering the bond between husband and wife is generally stronger than that of parents and children at the adult stage.

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GTA3Freak-2001

I am sorry but put her out of her misery!

 

Even if there's an ounce of life in her I am sure she would be wanting to go instead of being kept alive by machines. The feeding tube thing bothers me though, are they just going to let her starve to death? Euthanasia her for christ's sake!

 

Its not the busband's choice either, of course he's going to want her to be kept alive. She is his wife you know so I think his judgment isn't the best one to go with. Did he ever think what she would want if she could speak/let him know.

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ilikensrs

 

Besides your beloved television and internet, how can you prove she is brain dead?

Here is a cat scan taken several years ago. The cerebral cortex has all but disappeared, and has been replaced by cerebro-spinal fluid. She has been examined by dozens of court appointed doctors, within whom the only divisions on diagnosis are whether it is 100% of the cerebral cortex gone, or if a few wisps of unconnected tissue remain. The only doctors to state that she is not in a pvs are those hired by hjer parents, and frequently have made their diagnosis after watching 1/2 an hour of videotape.

user posted image

 

 

How can you prove the husband isn't responsible?

Isn't responsible for what? Her massive brain loss came about when she suffered a heart attack and was deprived of oxygen to her brain for fourteen minutes. Her husband has had her undergo extensive medical treatments, including an experimental treatment where electrodes were implanted in the remains of her brain to try and stimulate regenration of tissue. After exhausting all medical options, the only thing left to do is to execute her wishes.

 

 

 

Way to be informed. Oh, and the "husband" your defending is civily married and has two children with another woman in case you didn't know. There's as much proof of her telling her husband of her wishes as there is of her telling her parents those wishes.

Her "husband" is indeed her husband as per the law of the land. He has a girlfriend, and two children by her, but will remain married to terri until the day she dies. There is substantially more proof that she has told her "husband", and "several" other "people" than there "is" that she "told" her "parents". To quote from a different "page" on the "internet" - 'Terri's parents testified in court, and under oath that they did not know what Terri wanted, and even if they knew that she would want the feeding tube removed they would not do it. Terri's husband and two of his family members each testified (and were unable to be impeached under cross examination) that at different times, Terri had expressed a desire not to be kept alive by artificial means.'

 

 

 

 

According to the parents, she told them she was abused by him before: why is it courts will believe the husband's claim and not that of the parents'?

Perhaps because everything Michael has said has been substantiated by other parties or by medical professionals, and the parents have constantly changed their tune over the years, and would gladly solicit for donations and take fundie-money to turn the shame of what has happened to their daughter into a media sh*tstorm despite their daughters wishes.

 

 

I am sorry but put her out of her misery!

 

Even if there's an ounce of life in her I am sure she would be wanting to go instead of being kept alive by machines. The feeding tube thing bothers me though, are they just going to let her starve to death? Euthanasia her for christ's sake!

 

Its not the busband's choice either, of course he's going to want her to be kept alive. She is his wife you know so I think his judgment isn't the best one to go with. Did he ever think what she would want if she could speak/let him know.

 

You may want to just give the facts of the case a quick perusal before posting on them in D & D. It's already been established by the courts that she wuold not have wanted to live in a pvs. Under florida law, she has the right to refuse further treatment, or to have a proxy do that for her, but there is no legal grounds for a vegetable to be given lethal injections or anything of that nature.

There is no signifigant difference aside from the timeframe involved either way. Terris basic functions such as breathing, heart functions, and digestive food are maintained by her brainstem, but with all higher functions gone she is not capable of feeling any pain from no longer being fed.

It is (was) the husbands choice, in as much as he is Terris legal guardian, and chose to have a trial held to determine her wishes. They had already discussed the issue well before a heart attack led to her current state, and she had expressed both to her husband and to friends that she would never want to be left alive as a vegetable. I am sure that is what he thinks that she would want, and what she would say if her current state allowed it (but wouldn't as if her current state allowed her cognitive thought and the ability to communicate with others she would hardly be deemed as a vegetable.)

Edited by ilikensrs

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Eviscero

Its not the busband's choice either, of course he's going to want her to be kept alive. She is his wife you know so I think his judgment isn't the best one to go with. Did he ever think what she would want if she could speak/let him know.

The husband wants to end it.

 

 

 

After reading ilikensrs' post, I think it's clear (given that that's all true) that the right decision was made.

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HoodyG

I'm surprised to see so many religious people and religious extremists protest to save Terry Schiavo's life.

About a couple of weeks ago I remember watching an NBC documentary called line between life and death or something and there was this woman there who urgently needed a surgery or she would certainly die, however, even so she refused having it because she didn't want anything unnatural done on her in order to save her life, claiming and I quote "God will save me!". Even her husband said that no matter what happens she would benefit, e.g. if she got better it would be good, and if she died she would go to "Heaven".

Now their protests for Terry Schiavo's life really go out of your stereotypical religious character.

Yesterday on Scarborough Country, host Joe Scarborough went on about how the only reason for starving and dehydrating Terry Schiavo to death is because that "Beautiful young woman can't feed herself.", showing all of her pictures of her before anything causing her to be in this state in which she is now happened and not once showing this or any other pictures that better describe her current state.

Well if that was the case that we did in fact kill people who are unable to feed themselves we would be killing every baby for the exact same reason. BUT we DON"T. The reasons we're doing that in her case are

 

1) That she is in a persistent/permanent vegetative state,

2) That the cerebral portion of her brain is gone depriving her of thought and awareness,

3) That not being kept alive artificially if ever in that condition was her wish,

4) That she never has a chance of recovering or getting better,

5) That keeping her alive is an iversitile waste of resources e.g. money, food and water.

 

Joe also mentioned that it is appalling that we're doing something like this to someone amongst us. If someone's mind has been dead - GONE for 15 years, I don't think you can say that that person is amongst us.

 

I personally wouldn't want to be kept alive in that condition and I think her parents are selfish not saying goodbye long ago when they should have, politicians e.g. Jeb Bush, president Bush's brother and governor of Florida are just using this case to act compassion on side of idiot religious extremists who take majority of this country's population in order to dig up votes from them.

 

I do feel with the parents and understand their pain and suffering... but they better let go now if they didn't when they should have, 15 years ago when their daughter mentally left them forever.

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GTACJ

Terrie's rights are being taken away from her. The constitucion is being riped in two by not preserveing life of this women. Her husban if you can call him a husban after haveing two kids with a nother women is sick. 3 of Terrie's former nurses said that Terries husban said , " Whens the Bitch going to die?" and , "What can we do to accelerate her death?". They also testified that he said , " After this im goin to go to Erope and by a new car and boat from the money im going to get." This is totaly insane and sick. I belive that Jeb Bush has a obligation to intervene and stop this madnes.

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HoodyG

If the supreme court refuses to intervene in the case, and every single district judge rules against her life, there isn't anything the governor can do I'm affraid except changing the law somehow.

As I stated above I fully feel or at least try to feel the grief of Terry's parents.

And I think they shouldn't have chosen to starve her to death, but to give her some kind of lethal injection or something painless. The good thing here if there is one is that her suffering will soon end. As I stated in post above I think her parents should finally let go and her husband should finally get the will money to support his new family. Now I don't care what he said nor am I going to question the liability of that, you can't blame a guy for divorcing his SEVEARLY brain damaged wife if he wants to move on, because she doesn't remember him and since the purpose of meaning is understanding - and she didn't understand anything for 15 years, he has my green light for divorcing her and moving on with his life as her parents should have long ago and she needs to die as soon as possible as I hope she will.

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street454

If I were Terri (and knew that I had no chance of doing something that doesn't involve lying in bed) I would want to die. But if I were part of her family I wouldn't want her to. I think her husband should just get a divorce, that would solve the problem.

 

My decision is to bring the feeding tube back.

Edited by street454

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ilikensrs

 

Terrie's rights are being taken away from her. The constitucion is being riped in two by not preserveing life of this women. Her husban if you can call him a husban after haveing two kids with a nother women is sick. 3 of Terrie's former nurses said that Terries husban said , " Whens the Bitch going to die?" and , "What can we do to accelerate her death?". They also testified that he said , " After this im goin to go to Erope and by a new car and boat from the money im going to get." This is totaly insane and sick. I belive that Jeb Bush has a obligation to intervene and stop this madnes.

How exactly is the constitution being ripped in half? It seems more that when Jeb bush tries to pass unconstitutoinal laws to deny the rights of somebady who has been before 20+ judges, and has had her will clearly established many times over. The woman who testified that Michael made remarks such as "when is the bitch going to die?" is so batsh*t insane that even the schindlers lawyer hasn't relied on her testimony, as the police investigated her complaints and found absolutely no ground to support her claims. It's good to see that you're getting all of your news from a clearly unbiased source though.

Moreover, blaming the husband is utterly stupid, as is suggesting that by returning terri to her parents care the issue will be resolved. It is now out of the hands of any carers, as the courts have ruled, over and over, that it is terris wish that she should not be kept alive in such a state.

Edited by ilikensrs

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GTACJ
Terrie's rights are being taken away from her. The constitucion is being riped in two by not preserveing life of this women. Her husban if you can call him a husban after haveing two kids with a nother women is sick. 3 of Terrie's former nurses said that Terries husban said , " Whens the Bitch going to die?" and , "What can we do to accelerate her death?". They also testified that he said , " After this im goin to go to Erope and by a new car and boat from the money im going to get." This is totaly insane and sick. I belive that Jeb Bush has a obligation to intervene and stop this madnes.

How exactly is the constitution being ripped in half? It seems more that when Jeb bush tries to pass unconstitutoinal laws to deny the rights of somebady who has been before 20+ judges, and has had her will clearly established many times over. The woman who testified that Michael made remarks such as "when is the bitch going to die?" is so batsh*t insane that even the schindlers lawyer hasn't relied on her testimony, as the police investigated her complaints and found absolutely no ground to support her claims. It's good to see that you're getting all of your news from a clearly unbiased source though.

Moreover, blaming the husband is utterly stupid, as is suggesting that by returning terri to her parents care the issue will be resolved. It is now out of the hands of any carers, as the courts have ruled, over and over, that it is terris wish that she should not be kept alive in such a state.

Dois the constituctoin not say to Preserve life and the persuit of happynes? Well there is no profe first of that this is what Terri whan'ts. Her husban said this but its not 100% credible.There for we should not allow her to die.We have to prove that murders comited thier crime beond a reasonable doubt. We give death row imates more apeal then we do for Terri's parents. And the resone they didn't use the former nurses testimony is becouse they can't. O and plameing her husban is stupid? Peolpe do crazzy stuf like this for money all the time ...... Burning houses , killing famly members , the list gois on. Im not saying he is doing this for money but you can still bring it in to questoin.

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GTACJ

 

If the supreme court refuses to intervene in the case, and every single district judge rules against her life, there isn't anything the governor can do I'm affraid except changing the law somehow.

As I stated above I fully feel or at least try to feel the grief of Terry's parents.

And I think they shouldn't have chosen to starve her to death, but to give her some kind of lethal injection or something painless. The good thing here if there is one is that her suffering will soon end. As I stated in post above I think her parents should finally let go and her husband should finally get the will money to support his new family. Now I don't care what he said nor am I going to question the liability of that, you can't blame a guy for divorcing his SEVEARLY brain damaged wife if he wants to move on, because she doesn't remember him and since the purpose of meaning is understanding - and she didn't understand anything for 15 years, he has my green light for divorcing her and moving on with his life as her parents should have long ago and she needs to die as soon as possible as I hope she will.

Yes he can. Did you remember Elian Gonzalez? The Florida house voted to allow him to stay. But President Clinton said no and sent in storm troopers into his house and took him away. And he broke his maredel vowl so why can't her parents take cusdidy of her now?

Edited by GTACJ

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tehhunter
Terrie's rights are being taken away from her. The constitucion is being riped in two by not preserveing life of this women. Her husban if you can call him a husban after haveing two kids with a nother women is sick. 3 of Terrie's former nurses said that Terries husban said , " Whens the Bitch going to die?" and , "What can we do to accelerate her death?". They also testified that he said , " After this im goin to go to Erope and by a new car and boat from the money im going to get." This is totaly insane and sick. I belive that Jeb Bush has a obligation to intervene and stop this madnes.

How exactly is the constitution being ripped in half? It seems more that when Jeb bush tries to pass unconstitutoinal laws to deny the rights of somebady who has been before 20+ judges, and has had her will clearly established many times over. The woman who testified that Michael made remarks such as "when is the bitch going to die?" is so batsh*t insane that even the schindlers lawyer hasn't relied on her testimony, as the police investigated her complaints and found absolutely no ground to support her claims. It's good to see that you're getting all of your news from a clearly unbiased source though.

Moreover, blaming the husband is utterly stupid, as is suggesting that by returning terri to her parents care the issue will be resolved. It is now out of the hands of any carers, as the courts have ruled, over and over, that it is terris wish that she should not be kept alive in such a state.

Dois the constituctoin not say to Preserve life and the persuit of happynes? Well there is no profe first of that this is what Terri whan'ts. Her husban said this but its not 100% credible.There for we should not allow her to die.We have to prove that murders comited thier crime beond a reasonable doubt. We give death row imates more apeal then we do for Terri's parents. And the resone they didn't use the former nurses testimony is becouse they can't. O and plameing her husban is stupid? Peolpe do crazzy stuf like this for money all the time ...... Burning houses , killing famly members , the list gois on. Im not saying he is doing this for money but you can still bring it in to questoin.

Are you french by chance? Otherwise, you're a very bad writer.

 

Listen up you two: The problem is not that the husband is still married to her. The problem is that she has spent $1.5 million dollars just on keeping her alive each year (Approx: $100,000 a year). SHE IS DEAD. This entire scenario is just like digging up your grandma whos been dead for 4 years, and dancing with her in public. The media love it, especially conservative media. Thats the entire reason its so big. The conservatives once again brought up the issue, and portrayed Bush/J.Bush as heroes trying to save poor terri's life.

 

So, in conclusion, stop watching Fox News. Shes dead, the clog won.

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ilikensrs
Dois the constituctoin not say to Preserve life and the persuit of happynes? Well there is no profe first of that this is what Terri whan'ts. Her husban said this but its not 100% credible.There for we should not allow her to die.

There certainly is proof that Terri had previously indicated that her wishes in this situation would be to remove her feeding tube. She has said it to her husband, and to two other friends. All of these people testified under oath, were cross examined on it, and the facts have been proven in court. Therefore her wishes should be carried out, in accordance with florida law.

 

We have to prove that murders comited thier crime beond a reasonable  doubt. We give  death row imates more apeal then we do for Terri's parents.

As stated earlier, everything has been proven in a court of law already, most things several times over. The case has so far been heard on 17 seperate occaisions, and with each time it has been verified that Terri would have wanted to die, with that being legal in the state she currently lies.

 

And the resone they didn't use the former nurses testimony is becouse they can't.

Or maybe because she's a loony whose testimony was useless even to terris parents lawyers because she has had all her claims investigated by police, and they have all been shown to be false. She claimed that michale was giving terri insulin in a bid to kill her, but terri was tested and it has never shown up. She then claimed that she was writing this on end of shift reports on terris chart, but that michael somehow snuck in and erased them all. Face it, she's a nutjob.

 

O and plameing her husban is stupid? Peolpe do crazzy stuf like this for money all the time ...... Burning houses , killing famly members , the list gois on. Im not saying he is doing this for money but you can still bring it in to questoin.

You may have had a point there, except for the fact the most of terris money has gone towards paying her medical bills. Michale has also turned down offers of money and exclusive rights to the story to be used in movies and television that were made by terris parents in return for giving up custody of her.

Quit drinking, stop watching the latest spin on fox news, and learn the facts.

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Oddsock

Well...here's my opinion.

 

Life is beautiful. We can all agree on that. However, I think if you could do nothing yourself and couldn't even eat, then you'd probably want to discontinue your useless life.

 

I know I would.

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GTA3Skins&More

I find this whole situation just rediculous.

 

And quite funny.

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jersiq

 

Yes he can. Did you remember Elian Gonzalez? The Florida house voted to allow him to stay. But President Clinton said no and sent in storm troopers into his house and took him away.

 

That's because the president has a higher authority than the Florida House of Representatives. Ironically, this structure of governmental powers was decided by the Supreme Court in Mucolloch vs. Maryland.

 

There is nothing the President can do if the Supreme Court hands down a ruling. (any case, not just this one)

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Forty

She probably won't be alive much longer. This is what, day 7 of her being withheld food and nourishment? It's unfortunate, and I don't know whether she should live or die, but there's nothing that can be done at this point. Just for her family to say their farewells, and for us to await the massive lawsuits that will be brought down upon the government.

 

My only complaint with this whole scenario is the right to live aspect. While they were deciding to let her live or die, she should have been kept under medical care, which includes the feeding tube inserted in her stomach. They should not have removed it until the court processes were entirely exhausted. Everyone has a right to live, and if someone's destiny is under consideration, they should be kept alive in the meantime. When a prisoner is waiting for his death sentence, they continue to feed and shelter him. Terry Shiavo is no prisoner, she's a vegetable. She should have been kept healthy until a final decision was reached by all governing bodies involved.

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GTACJ
Dois the constituctoin not say to Preserve life and the persuit of happynes? Well there is no profe first of that this is what Terri whan'ts. Her husban said this but its not 100% credible.There for we should not allow her to die.

There certainly is proof that Terri had previously indicated that her wishes in this situation would be to remove her feeding tube. She has said it to her husband, and to two other friends. All of these people testified under oath, were cross examined on it, and the facts have been proven in court. Therefore her wishes should be carried out, in accordance with florida law.

 

We have to prove that murders comited thier crime beond a reasonable  doubt. We give  death row imates more apeal then we do for Terri's parents.

As stated earlier, everything has been proven in a court of law already, most things several times over. The case has so far been heard on 17 seperate occaisions, and with each time it has been verified that Terri would have wanted to die, with that being legal in the state she currently lies.

 

And the resone they didn't use the former nurses testimony is becouse they can't.

Or maybe because she's a loony whose testimony was useless even to terris parents lawyers because she has had all her claims investigated by police, and they have all been shown to be false. She claimed that michale was giving terri insulin in a bid to kill her, but terri was tested and it has never shown up. She then claimed that she was writing this on end of shift reports on terris chart, but that michael somehow snuck in and erased them all. Face it, she's a nutjob.

 

O and plameing her husban is stupid? Peolpe do crazzy stuf like this for money all the time ...... Burning houses , killing famly members , the list gois on. Im not saying he is doing this for money but you can still bring it in to questoin.

You may have had a point there, except for the fact the most of terris money has gone towards paying her medical bills. Michale has also turned down offers of money and exclusive rights to the story to be used in movies and television that were made by terris parents in return for giving up custody of her.

Quit drinking, stop watching the latest spin on fox news, and learn the facts.

I never said there is no proof I said that it is not 100% credible witch it isn't , if you don't think so then you are verry dumb. Just becouse someone says something dois not mean it is true.

 

Yes that is true that they lost in privous court battles. But there is still doubt that she did not whant this treatment without a will or a writen statement. That were I belive that we have to prove beond a reasonable doubt.

 

No it is becouse they canout use it. Wow can she be loony? You are saying one of the three nurses are loonly?

 

And finally how can you say her wishes are being carried out if there is no proof they are?

 

 

 

 

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jersiq

 

That were I belive that we have to prove beyond {SIC} a reasonable doubt.

 

 

Civil cases only have to be proven by a preponderence of the evidence, not beyond reasonable doubt.

 

You would have to believe that at some point during the marriage, the husband and wife would have discussed DNR's etc.

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ilikensrs
She probably won't be alive much longer. This is what, day 7 of her being withheld food and nourishment? It's unfortunate, and I don't know whether she should live or die, but there's nothing that can be done at this point. Just for her family to say their farewells, and for us to await the massive lawsuits that will be brought down upon the government.

 

My only complaint with this whole scenario is the right to live aspect. While they were deciding to let her live or die, she should have been kept under medical care, which includes the feeding tube inserted in her stomach. They should not have removed it until the court processes were entirely exhausted. Everyone has a right to live, and if someone's destiny is under consideration, they should be kept alive in the meantime. When a prisoner is waiting for his death sentence, they continue to feed and shelter him. Terry Shiavo is no prisoner, she's a vegetable. She should have been kept healthy until a final decision was reached by all governing bodies involved.

At what point do you consider all governing bodies to in agreement? The case has now been heard in front of almost 20 courts, with eah hearing either agreenig that terri would indeed have wished to be removed from life support, or that terris rights were not violated in a previous trial. If that isn't substantiative enough for you, what is? The way you seem to want things, nobody could ever have their life support turned off, as you could always keep them alive for just one more appeal.

 

 

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Forty
Yesterday the courts reached the end of their line, and the appellate process was exhausted, according to the news I listened to. That's the final step. She should have been kept on life support until yesterday afternoon, is my point. They unplugged her before the ruling was accepted as final.

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ilikensrs
Yesterday the courts reached the end of their line, and the appellate process was exhausted, according to the news I listened to. That's the final step. She should have been kept on life support until yesterday afternoon, is my point. They unplugged her before the ruling was accepted as final.

Does this mean that the rulings of every court below the level of the SCOTUS should not be carried out until all appeal routes have been taken? Why bother having lower level courts then?

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Forty
Not every case presses through the appellate process as this one does. The court system will only allow you to delay a ruling as long as the appeals take to run their course, so yes, until the case was closed she shouldn't have been starved in the meantime. I don't see how that's fair.

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Canofceleri

This is why I'm in favor of euthanasia. They could just put her out fast instead of starving her.

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HoodyG
This is why I'm in favor of euthanasia. They could just put her out fast instead of starving her.

That's exactly what I proposed. Their answer is that that would cost money if they used medicine on everyone in her condition, but certainly not as much money as has been spent on feeding and supporting her all these years.

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GTACJ
That were I belive that we have to prove beyond {SIC} a reasonable doubt.

 

 

Civil cases only have to be proven by a preponderence of the evidence, not beyond reasonable doubt.

 

You would have to believe that at some point during the marriage, the husband and wife would have discussed DNR's etc.

I said that I belive that they should prove beond a reasonable doubt not that they didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt. And what do you meen by DNR? blush.gif

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ilikensrs
Not every case presses through the appellate process as this one does. The court system will only allow you to delay a ruling as long as the appeals take to run their course, so yes, until the case was closed she shouldn't have been starved in the meantime. I don't see how that's fair.

But the parents lawyers had already tried to appeal to the supreme court a few times, and were denied having the appeal held.

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