NFL Discussion

[Mafia Drive Gunner]

Here is a very interesting read on QB pressure.

 

Here.

 

I recomend to read it. I think that they should have a statistic for QB hits. Why? Simply because the more a player gets to the QB, no matter if it is a sack or not, it will rattle him and the next time the QB sees that same guy running at him, namely a massive DE, LB or DT, he will hurry and produce many more secondary oppurtunities.

 

If you think it's off topic, you gotta read the link first.

 

For all you lazy ones......

 

 

Some potential trends are beginning to emerge in the NFL, and they will bear watching as the season progresses.

 

Sacks and Pressures

 

It was designed to open up the passing game and get back to the proper interpretation of the rules, but it was never intended to put quarterbacks at risk. But that's exactly what may be happening in the National Football league in 2005. Two years ago, NFL officials called illegal defensive contact 79 times for the whole season. Last year, the frequency of the illegal contact call spiked to 191 times. Any time a defensive penalty increases by 112 in one year, it provokes defensive coaches to react and create ways to overcome the new problem.

 

I have talked with two head coaches and two defensive coordinators about what they did in the offseason to prepare for a situation that seems to be here for the long haul. The NFL isn't giving lip service to contacting receivers past the initial five-yard area. The overwhelming response has been to go after the quarterback with a much more aggressive scheme. Arguably the two best teams in the NFL are the Falcons and Eagles, and they didn't seem to sit still and play vanilla defense last week. In fact, Philadelphia got three sacks from their safeties -- which leads me to what appears to be a developing pattern or trend in football.

 

Last year on the opening weekend of the season, NFL defenses got to the quarterback 58 times. Last week the same 32 defenses sacked quarterbacks 73 times. When I drilled down into the 73 sacks and threw out the sacks by the traditional pass rushers (defensive linemen and 3-4 outside linebackers), I discovered 28 percent of the sacks came from nontraditional pass rushers (safeties, cornerbacks and inside linebackers). If the rate of sacks continues, there will be between 200 and 250 extra sacks on quarterbacks this year as compared to last season. The effect of the extra collisions on the most important player on the field will result in more quarterback injuries. Last year, Rams QB Marc Bulger was sacked 41 times, which is bad enough, but it looks worse for 2005. He was sacked seven times in the opening game. Let's hope for his sake that he doesn't have to withstand that pace all year, because he may be on pace for over 100 sacks -- even though he'll never last long enough to cross the century mark.

 

With all the extra sack pressure in store for offenses this season, what may go unnoticed is that it will become impossible to help double team defensive ends and tackles when they pass rush. Tight ends and running backs that traditionally "chipped" defensive linemen to help outmatched offensive tackles now have to pick up safeties and corners. There is no official NFL category for hits on quarterbacks, but for many defensive coaches, it is as important to get steady hits on the passer as it is to bring him to the ground with the ball in his hand. For example, Jack Del Rio, head coach of the Jaguars, told me that even though DE Reggie Haywood didn't get a sack last week, the staff credited him with nine hits on the quarterback. That kind of physical beating will take its toll on any quarterback as the season moves on.

 

Kyle Boller is injured, Patrick Ramsey almost had his head taken off, Donovan McNabb took some shots and Ben Roethlisberger only had to throw 11 passes but was sore most of the week with a knee bruise. It looks more and more like every backup quarterback in the league will get an opportunity to play this year. I hope every team is comfortable with the guy on the sideline wearing the baseball hat.

-MDG

[GTA3Rockstar]

Nevermind about the Niners gonna win... Thought Carolina should hold on to the win, hopefully...

[Cuse510]

Da Bears had a great first half against the Lions. The Offense, Defense, and Special Teams all played really well. Orton is actually looking like a good QB...

 

@MDG: Interesting article.

[Dasutin]

Didn't I say Kyle was the best QB in the draft? I was a big fan of his when he was with Purdue, and I was very surprised to see him fall to the 4th round. The Bears got themselves one hell of a steal.

 

Oh, and how about that Colts' D?

[D Jones]

I never said SF would beat Eagles btw. I was.... joking

[GTA3Rockstar]

D Jones you serious about this trade???

 

D Jones - Players to trade

E. Manning - QB

W. Parker - RB

Ju. Smith - DL(IR)

 

GTA3Rockstar - Players to trade

R. Droughns - RB

M. Vick - QB

R. Lewis - DL

 

 

No thanks

[woodprior383]

Well... It might be worth it because of Willie Parker for Droughns but Eli Manning for Mike Vick? Shya... right.

[GTA3Rockstar]

Well... It might be worth it because of Willie Parker for Droughns but Eli Manning for Mike Vick? Shya... right.

Don't forget Ju. Smith for R. Lewis and Ju. Smith is on IR...

[I Love Anna Kournikova]

You cant blame a guy for tryin .

[BigGamer]

D Jones you serious about this trade???

 

D Jones - Players to trade

E. Manning - QB

W. Parker - RB

Ju. Smith - DL(IR)

 

GTA3Rockstar - Players to trade

R. Droughns - RB

M. Vick - QB

R. Lewis - DL

 

 

No thanks

Rockstar, I'll trade you Alex Smith (the TE) for Michael Vick.

 

[GTA3Rockstar]

D Jones you serious about this trade???

 

D Jones - Players to trade

E. Manning - QB

W. Parker - RB

Ju. Smith - DL(IR)

 

GTA3Rockstar - Players to trade

R. Droughns - RB

M. Vick - QB

R. Lewis - DL

 

 

No thanks

Rockstar, I'll trade you Alex Smith (the TE) for Michael Vick.

 

I would, but I picked up A.Smith today, so how can you trade him if you don't have him???

[BigGamer]

D Jones you serious about this trade???

 

D Jones - Players to trade

E. Manning - QB

W. Parker - RB

Ju. Smith - DL(IR)

 

GTA3Rockstar - Players to trade

R. Droughns - RB

M. Vick - QB

R. Lewis - DL

 

 

No thanks

Rockstar, I'll trade you Alex Smith (the TE) for Michael Vick.

 

I would, but I picked up A.Smith today, so how can you trade him if you don't have him???

I forgot, I released him to pick up Wiggins.

 

Plus, JW got two tackles today. Let's go offense D!

[SloStenRacing]

 

I provided you with facts that stated 2 others were still on the team and that the other 2 just got traded this off-season.

I really don't care. That was completely besides the point, which was the Browns' first round busts. You're so hung up on trying to win an argument, that you've forgot what the original discussion was about in the first place. I must thank you though. You've given me some good laughs, and I could use it after a tough loss to Michigan State.

They sure do have alot of first round busts don't they?

 

"Trent Dilfer connects with Braylon Edwards for 80 yards"

 

Did I mention he had half the amount of passes as the next guy and 3 more yards?

 

Gerard has a tackle for the broncos. Courtney had a tackle, sack and a fumble recovery.

 

Like I stated before players get traded all the time and if they were a bust (def: failure or flop) they would be traded or dropped without second guessing the decision.

 

 

EDIT: What site are you guys playing fantasy football on?

[Burning-Ice]

@SloSten- Yahoo.

 

Ah, 2-0 so far..not a bad way to start a season, I shall dethrone you GTA3Rockstar

 

Pretty good week of football, double header tomorrow..I hope the Saints pull out another win against the Giants tomorrow.

[SloStenRacing]

@SloSten- Yahoo.

 

Ah, 2-0 so far..not a bad way to start a season, I shall dethrone you GTA3Rockstar

 

Pretty good week of football, double header tomorrow..I hope the Saints pull out another win against the Giants tomorrow.

Is it a league or the free version?

[Knightmare]

Bad time to be a Packers fan

 

LOST TO THE BROWNS AT HOME AT THE REGGIE WHITE DEDICATION GAME WHEN WE RETIRED HIS NUMBER

 

Ugh...jaosd;ihtasohg

 

Bears are looking better and better, they got me 30 points on DEFENSE in my fantasy league, with the way the lions/vikes are playing, they might actually be a contender this year! And I do agree, Orton looks pretty good at times.

 

Just thought I'd chime in.

[Dasutin]

I provided you with facts that stated 2 others were still on the team and that the other 2 just got traded this off-season.

I really don't care. That was completely besides the point, which was the Browns' first round busts. You're so hung up on trying to win an argument, that you've forgot what the original discussion was about in the first place. I must thank you though. You've given me some good laughs, and I could use it after a tough loss to Michigan State.

They sure do have alot of first round busts don't they?

 

"Trent Dilfer connects with Braylon Edwards for 80 yards"

You're a f*cking genius aren't you? First of all, it's Braylon first year, and it's his second game. Are you really trying to determine whether or not he's a bust already? And what about his two reception for 16 yards performance last week? Yea, that's an all-pro performance right there. Hand this man the keys to the Hall of Fame, because he's the best player to ever play his position. Second of all, I told you I blamed all of their busts on Butch Davis. Butch Davis is now gone, incase you haven't noticed or don't know who he is (I'm assuming both). Since Butch took over, every single one of their first round picks was a bust, and a few of their "steals" of the second round turned out to be busts too. Including Quincy Morgan, who was taken with the first pick in the second round, who is on his third team in three years.

We're also not talking about players as busts either, we're talking about team busts. Since, you keep talking about the Broncos, you obviuosly don't understand. When a team drafts a player in the first round, he is expected to make an impact, and soon. When he doesn't he is either traded, or released. What he does after that point is irrelevant in this discussion, because it is not the individual as a player we're talking about, it is the team's ability to draft.

Get it, yet?

[SloStenRacing]

 

When a team drafts a player in the first round, he is expected to make an impact, and soon. When he doesn't he is either traded, or released. What he does after that point is irrelevant in this discussion, because it is not the individual as a player we're talking about, it is the team's ability to draft.

Get it, yet?

 

 

 

But if they were failures coming off the draft they would be traded.

That's just idiotic. I don't even need to argue it... because it's just so stupid.

 

Thank you for saying one thing in one post when I said if they didn't perform they would be traded, where you comment that is idiotic, yet, in a future post say the same exact thing. Way to contradict yourself there champ!

 

 

And, I still think the Browns own the record for most first round busts. Besides Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow, they don't have any of their first rounds from the last five or six years. And Braylon's just in his first year and Kellen Winslow is on the verge of being a bust. Poor Browns... I blame Butch Davis though, so things should get better now that he's gone.

 

Yet you fail to the list the other 2 they still have and haven't traded off that have been with the team for 3 and 4 years respectively. I thought you just stated that they get traded or released soon when they don't perform?

 

I love how you call me an idiot and a "f*cking" genius. Yet you make yourself look like a fool by contradicting your original statements more and more everytime you post again. I don't think you can top the last one but you have amazed me before so I will be waiting for your next moronic response.

[Dasutin]

 

When a team drafts a player in the first round, he is expected to make an impact, and soon. When he doesn't he is either traded, or released.

 

But if they were failures coming off the draft they would be traded.

That's just idiotic. I don't even need to argue it... because it's just so stupid.

And in what way are those two statements the same? What you're saying is that if they're a failure coming off the draft, they need to be gotten rid of. I'm saying that if they don't make an impact soon, they will be gotten rid of. Most teams will give a first round pick a minimum of two years to prove themselves in the NFL, because of what they invested in them. You would know that if you followed the game at all. If they are not making an impact by that time, they well then be gotten rid of. Not coming off the draft. Not during training camp, not in the first game, not even in the first year. If a player was expected to be a bust coming right off of the draft... why would a team draft him at all? That is stupid. That is idiotic. That is why I don't need to argue that point.

 

Also, who are the two players they still have? William Green and Kellen Winslow? Yea, they've surely been an impact in the league. They're not busts in the least bit. Let me clarify, you don't need to be traded or released to be classified as a bust. I thought that would be a given... but in your case, I understand the confusion. William Green is a complete bust. He's had his three years, and he's done nothing but hurt the Browns. Kellen Winslow has played a whopping ONE regular season game, and he didn't even play in the pre-season this year. Thus far, he's a bust. Two years, and no production... bust. But, I like Kellen Winslow, and I believe that if he just stays healthy he will be a top tightend in the league. Braylon Edwards is in his first year, and has played in two games. Have I called him a bust? No. Have you tried to use his most recent game as a pawn in your argument against the Browns' busts? Yes, you have. You just make yourself look even more ignorant each time you post. It's obvious you just don't know much about the discussion, so please stop before you make yourself look like a complete jackass.

Edited September 19, 2005 by Dasutin

[GTA3Rockstar]

What the f*ck does this have to do with football???

[Over The Wall]

lol @ random pic.

 

Eli --> Tiki for the TD.

 

14-0 Giants.

 

Cowboy game tonight!!!

[tehhunter]

Holy sh*t, the Redskins were behind 13-0 with 5:30 left in the fourth quarter and won 14-13, against the Cowboys. Goddamnit, I hate the Cowboys so much. This is the best end to my night I could possibly have.

 

Redskins, bitch. Respect.

[D Jones]

Holy sh*t, the Redskins were behind 13-0 with 5:30 left in the fourth quarter and won 14-13, against the Cowboys. Goddamnit, I hate the Cowboys so much. This is the best end to my night I could possibly have.

 

Redskins, bitch. Respect.

Damn Santana Moss .

 

 

We have aggresive Secondary, not really much of a speed (Newman). Oh well, that's the game. But, as always, we will find a way to embarrase the 'Skins @ Washington... Such as a Roy Williams tackle

[GTA3Rockstar]

I smoked my opponents, each week... 91 points over Djones and 80 over Andolini(Who is he on here?) 2-0

[D Jones]

I smoked my opponents, each week... 91 points over Djones and 80 over Andolini(Who is he on here?) 2-0

I would have killed you if I had starting QB's.

 

 

I have 244 points for the week, the most .

[GTA3Rockstar]

I smoked my opponents, each week... 91 points over Djones and 80 over Andolini(Who is he on here?) 2-0

I would have killed you if I had starting QB's.

 

 

I have 244 points for the week, the most .

Not even close if you did...

Who is Andolini???

[SloStenRacing]

 

When a team drafts a player in the first round, he is expected to make an impact, and soon. When he doesn't he is either traded, or released.

 

But if they were failures coming off the draft they would be traded.

That's just idiotic. I don't even need to argue it... because it's just so stupid.

And in what way are those two statements the same? What you're saying is that if they're a failure coming off the draft, they need to be gotten rid of. I'm saying that if they don't make an impact soon, they will be gotten rid of. Most teams will give a first round pick a minimum of two years to prove themselves in the NFL, because of what they invested in them. You would know that if you followed the game at all. If they are not making an impact by that time, they well then be gotten rid of. Not coming off the draft. Not during training camp, not in the first game, not even in the first year. If a player was expected to be a bust coming right off of the draft... why would a team draft him at all? That is stupid. That is idiotic. That is why I don't need to argue that point.

 

Also, who are the two players they still have? William Green and Kellen Winslow? Yea, they've surely been an impact in the league. They're not busts in the least bit. Let me clarify, you don't need to be traded or released to be classified as a bust. I thought that would be a given... but in your case, I understand the confusion. William Green is a complete bust. He's had his three years, and he's done nothing but hurt the Browns. Kellen Winslow has played a whopping ONE regular season game, and he didn't even play in the pre-season this year. Thus far, he's a bust. Two years, and no production... bust. But, I like Kellen Winslow, and I believe that if he just stays healthy he will be a top tightend in the league. Braylon Edwards is in his first year, and has played in two games. Have I called him a bust? No. Have you tried to use his most recent game as a pawn in your argument against the Browns' busts? Yes, you have. You just make yourself look even more ignorant each time you post. It's obvious you just don't know much about the discussion, so please stop before you make yourself look like a complete jackass.

Good god man. If Rockstar hadn't said something about my "pot this is kettle" pic I would post it again.

 

Those statements are the exact same thing. If I was saying they need to be traded/released then I would say NEED to not would be. But I don't need to touch that subject again because you actually only needed one post to contradict yourself this time. Read the underlines.

 

So in the first underline you are saying that they normally give players from the draft two years to prove themselves before they will release/trade them. Yet in the second one you call the guy who has been there for four years a complete bust and he stays untraded.

 

In the second one you also say that they don't have to traded or released to be considered a bust. Right. A bust is a failure or flop but yet in the first one you say two years is about how long a team would keep a player before calling him a bust and trading/releasing him.

 

Maybe you should look into the game a bit more yourself seeing as your "statistics for years allowed before declaring a bust and trading/releasing said player" are either outdated or completly made up

 

And please for the love of God stop contradicting yourself.

 

 

 

 

@ GTA3 probably Rick but it may be ILAK

[Dasutin]

I'm going to try to explain this as clearly as possible, as if I was talking to a 5 year old... which is honestly what I feel like I'm doing.

 

The Cleveland Browns are/were notorious for being the worst drafters. Every first round pick Butch Davis drafted turned into a bust.

 

Since returning to the NFL, the Browns' first round picks (minus Braylon Edwards) are as followed: Tim Couch ('99, 1st overall), Courtney Brown ('00, 1st overall), Gerrard Warren ('01, 3rd overall), William Green ('02, 16th overall), Jeff Faine ('03, 21st overall), and Kellen Winslow II ('04, 6th overall).

Tim Couch was eventually replaced by an undrafted free agent, and is no longer even in the NFL.

Courtney Brown was constantly injured, and was so dissapointing, he was released and picked up by the Broncos (where again, he is injured).

Gerrard Warren was supposed to be the full package. The big two-gapper, with the ability to rush the passer, however, he only succeeded in watching Jamal Lewis run past him. He too is now with the Broncos, where he rotates with two other situational defensive tackles.

William Green was drafted before the likes of Clinton Portis and T.J. Duckett in his draft, but still hasn't had more than 887 yards since his rookie year, and has a career ypc average of just 3.7. He is now 3rd on the depth chart behind former 4th-round pick Lee Suggs, and former fullback Ruben Droughns.

It's hard to call an offensive lineman a bust, especially when he's taken in the middle of the first round, but Jeff was considered one of the best Olineman in college. Since joining the NFL, you'd think he actually wanted to watch his QB get hammered. You can't blame it all on him though, he didn't have much help on the Oline, that should change this year (and from what I saw in the Packer game, he is playing significantly better now that he has Andruzzi and Coleman playing next to him). Still, he is a bust thus far.

Here's something I was admitantly wrong about... Kellen Winslow has actually played in TWO regular season games. Since being drafted, Kellen has spent most of his time on the injured reserve list, obviously not making an impact... obviously a bust.

 

Now, the definition of a bust. Like you said (don't get your panties in a twist, it took a few of my "contraticting" posts to suade you), a bust is basically a failed player. However, you first implied a bust was a player that is either traded or released when you said something along the lines of "so what... players are traded and released all the time." I first tried to explain to you that we weren't even talking about players as busts, but rather teams as poor drafters. You weren't going to have any of that, and then you start on with your... well, intellectually-challenged arguments.

 

Which brings us to my "contradicting" posts. Let's start with the first one when I said a player is expected to make an impact soon. Pretending I didn't bring up the two years point at all, let's just think of the word "soon". In football terms, would "soon" be coming straight off of the draft like you proclaim? I wouldn't say so, I don't think any other fan would say so, I don't think any other 7-year old kid that watches Sportscenter highlights would say so. How can a player make an impact coming off of the draft? That's just stupid. Sorry if I insult you, but it is. I can't believe anyone would honestly bring up a point implying that teams draft players who are basically expected to be busts coming off of the draft, with the intention of trading them.

Now, for the "two years" point I brought up. Take a look at the Lions with Joey Harrington and the Ravens with Kyle Boller. Last year people were already ready to call Joey a bust because he was a bit inconsistent (I wasn't, by the way... the team around him is too young for Joey to be responsible for every win or loss), and people are doing the same for Kyle who's been injured for a good part of his career. Of course it isn't always two years, that's a rough estimation, but you can bet that if after that third or fourth year a player isn't producing... they'll be gone, or demotted at the very least. Sometimes it's just better for a team to keep a player on until their contract expires so they don't have to take a cap hit with the free agency rules.

Finally for the comments that are the "exact same" in my last post... they're clearly not. No need for me to explain that, you just need to reread for comprehension.

[SloStenRacing]

 

I'm going to try to explain this as clearly as possible, as if I was talking to a 5 year old... which is honestly what I feel like I'm doing.

 

Man you couldn't have said my thoughts any better.

 

 

The Cleveland Browns are/were notorious for being the worst drafters. Every first round pick Butch Davis drafted turned into a bust.

 

I still don't think your idea of a bust is fitting into the category of a bust. It's all a matter of opinion really. I would say a bust is a complete failure and since some of them have shown half decent rookie seasons they are from a bust in my opinion.

 

 

Since returning to the NFL, the Browns' first round picks (minus Braylon Edwards) are as followed: Tim Couch ('99, 1st overall), Courtney Brown ('00, 1st overall), Gerrard Warren ('01, 3rd overall), William Green ('02, 16th overall), Jeff Faine ('03, 21st overall), and Kellen Winslow II ('04, 6th overall).

Tim Couch was eventually replaced by an undrafted free agent, and is no longer even in the NFL.

 

You are correct on the lineup. And yes I agree this dude sucked balls. He deserved to be dropped fron the NFL completly. Definately a bust.

 

 

Courtney Brown was constantly injured, and was so dissapointing, he was released and picked up by the Broncos (where again, he is injured).

 

Oh so because he was injured and never really got a chance to play he is a bust? No. I wouldn't call him anything until he had a chance to fully prove himself (at least half a season of healthy games would give a good impression of how he was going to play)

 

 

Gerrard Warren was supposed to be the full package. The big two-gapper, with the ability to rush the passer, however, he only succeeded in watching Jamal Lewis run past him. He too is now with the Broncos, where he rotates with two other situational defensive tackles.

 

So because he choked in one game against a fairly good runningback he sucks and is a bust? No. Again, I wouldn't call him anything until he had a chance to fully prove himself (at least half a season of healthy games would give a good impression of how he was going to play)

 

 

William Green was drafted before the likes of Clinton Portis and T.J. Duckett in his draft, but still hasn't had more than 887 yards since his rookie year, and has a career ypc average of just 3.7. He is now 3rd on the depth chart behind former 4th-round pick Lee Suggs, and former fullback Ruben Droughns.

 

And Edgerrin James who has been in the league for 7 years only averages 4.2 on his career...what's your point in using an average yards per carry? Portis? Why no one picked him up first round is still beyond me. I mean the guy lead Miami to an undefeated season and a Rose Bowl win. Not to mention he came to the NFL and did the same sh*t he did back in College (I would say this is a fairly rare scenario for rookie year) he set a whole lot of records and was in the Top 5 of alot of things his rookie and sophmore years.

 

Duckett has a 4.1 ypc average on his career so he is no breakout runningback either.

 

 

It's hard to call an offensive lineman a bust, especially when he's taken in the middle of the first round, but Jeff was considered one of the best Olineman in college. Since joining the NFL, you'd think he actually wanted to watch his QB get hammered. You can't blame it all on him though, he didn't have much help on the Oline, that should change this year (and from what I saw in the Packer game, he is playing significantly better now that he has Andruzzi and Coleman playing next to him). Still, he is a bust thus far.

 

It is hard to stand out in a position like his if you don't have some help. So we will have to see what he does this year with the help.

 

 

Here's something I was admitantly wrong about... Kellen Winslow has actually played in TWO regular season games. Since being drafted, Kellen has spent most of his time on the injured reserve list, obviously not making an impact... obviously a bust.

 

Like I said with Courtney Brown, because he was injured and never really got a chance to play he is a bust? No. I wouldn't call him anything until he had a chance to fully prove himself (at least half a season of healthy games would give a good impression of how he was going to play)

 

 

Now, the definition of a bust. Like you said (don't get your panties in a twist, it took a few of my "contraticting" posts to suade you), a bust is basically a failed player. However, you first implied a bust was a player that is either traded or released when you said something along the lines of "so what... players are traded and released all the time." I first tried to explain to you that we weren't even talking about players as busts, but rather teams as poor drafters. You weren't going to have any of that, and then you start on with your... well, intellectually-challenged arguments.

 

I never implied that a bust was a player that was either traded or released with that statement. I said that before looking into your claims that they only had 2 of 6 of their first rounds left from the past 6 years (Once I looked into I found your claims to be false as they still had 4 of the 6). What I was saying with that statement was that it does not matter if they have traded off 4 of their last 6 1st round picks as players are traded and released constantly within the NFL. And about explaining sh*t, the point I originally tried to prove without even wanting to get into these long drawn out sh*tstains of the forum was that you were infact wrong and making false statements by saying they only had 2 of their last 6 first round drafts (They had 4 of them). You decided to misconstrue what I was saying and drag it on by assuming I meant something I did not.

 

In a future post I also went into detail on this idea and explained to you that the Denver Broncos also only have 4 of their last 6 first round picks. Granted Al Wilson, Ashley Lelie and D.J. Williams aren't "busts" per say but George Foster, the 2003 drafter tackle, started all 16 games last year and only put up 3 tackles yet they have let him start both games this year with no more tackles. As I have stated up above I can safely say I don't expect much from this guy this year as I think half a season of healthy games is enough to tell how well they will play.

 

 

Which brings us to my "contradicting" posts. Let's start with the first one when I said a player is expected to make an impact soon. Pretending I didn't bring up the two years point at all, let's just think of the word "soon". In football terms, would "soon" be coming straight off of the draft like you proclaim?

 

Where did I ever proclaim straight off the draft? Come on list it. I never once said straight off the draft. Hell they wouldn't even play one single regular season or preseason game if I said straight off the draft they would get to prove themselves in training camp and be booted accordingly. As I said above a few times now, I think half a season of fully healthy games is enough to determine whether a player is going to work with your team and if they are a bust or not.

 

 

I wouldn't say so, I don't think any other fan would say so, I don't think any other 7-year old kid that watches Sportscenter highlights would say so. How can a player make an impact coming off of the draft? That's just stupid. Sorry if I insult you, but it is. I can't believe anyone would honestly bring up a point implying that teams draft players who are basically expected to be busts coming off of the draft, with the intention of trading them.

 

Once again, list where I said that a team would draft a player just to trade them? Hell can you even give me a quote where I implied that was what I meant? I doubt you can. And if you can I am sure that you are misunderstanding my wording or something (I could totally understand this if you weren't American but I have no clue how after seeing you are American)

 

 

Now, for the "two years" point I brought up. Take a look at the Lions with Joey Harrington and the Ravens with Kyle Boller. Last year people were already ready to call Joey a bust because he was a bit inconsistent (I wasn't, by the way... the team around him is too young for Joey to be responsible for every win or loss), and people are doing the same for Kyle who's been injured for a good part of his career.

 

Those same people were also ready to pick the Lions to go deep in the playoff's and possibly take a Super Bowl this year (as one of the most improved teams). Yet they lost to the Bears 6-10 and Joey Harrington had 5 interceptions. I wouldn't really say he is that much more improved since last season.

 

And you are being a hypocrite by calling Kellen Winslow and Courtney Brown busts because they have been injured a majority of their career but getting on people for doing so with Boller.

 

 

Of course it isn't always two years, that's a rough estimation, but you can bet that if after that third or fourth year a player isn't producing... they'll be gone, or demotted at the very least. Sometimes it's just better for a team to keep a player on until their contract expires so they don't have to take a cap hit with the free agency rules.

 

Are you calling it now then? If Kyle Boller doesn't improve within the next two seasons he is gone (5 year contract)? Same with Harrington (6 year contract)?

 

 

Finally for the comments that are the "exact same" in my last post... they're clearly not. No need for me to explain that, you just need to reread for comprehension.

 

I never said the comments in your post were the exact same I said that the comments that you quoted that I had quoted in that post were the exact same. The ones where we both said if they were busts they get traded/released.

 

The ones in your last post were contradictory.

 

Comment 1: Says how they are usually given two years to prove themselves before being traded off if they are considered busts.

 

Comment 2: Calls a guy who has been on the team for 3 years and done absolutely nothing for the team a bust but yet he remains on the team. If he has done nothing they would have released him. (But he has infact done something and is a reliable backup. (You stated earlier that he was 3rd string but I fail to see this) Browns Depth Chart on their Site

Brown Depth Chart on NFL.com

[BigGamer]

Holy sh*t, the Redskins were behind 13-0 with 5:30 left in the fourth quarter and won 14-13, against the Cowboys. Goddamnit, I hate the Cowboys so much. This is the best end to my night I could possibly have.

 

Redskins, bitch. Respect.

Hail, brother. Hail.

 

 

But, as always, we will find a way to embarrase the 'Skins @ Washington... Such as a Roy Williams tackle

 

A) The horse-coller is now "illegal".

B) I do believe that Roy Williams got burned, fried, beaten, whisked, grilled, and then served on toast by one Mr. Santana Moss.