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Medallion Man

The London Dossier

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meta187

devil.gif WELL - I've found you two idgets (beamer9, Medman)! and what do you have to say for yourself!? Come back to the gang thread when ya get a chance. Surprises are in store.

 

 

Long live rahkstar2.gif

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Medallion Man

 

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Gangs of London Town posts aim to give an insight into what to expect from a GTA city which is based upon London. These posts work in conjunction with People of London Town and Streets of London Town posts to form a comprehensive Tourist Information Guide’ to a London inspired city.

 

Gangs of London Town posts are follow on posts from a Streets of London town posts, they deal with the kinds of gang that you could expect to see in the area of London that the related Streets of London Town post focused upon. If a specific area is particularly related to a London gang, the Gangs of London Town post will focus on that gangs activity, behaviour and interests in that area and the city of London as a whole. Basically the area would be the stronghold of the gang in a London inspired GTA in the way that Hepburn Height’s was the home of the Diablos in Liberty City or Little Haiti was home to the Haitian’s in Vice.

 

This post is the first Gangs of London Town Feature and is an overview of the gangs likely to make an appearance in any GTA based upon London.

 

These are obviously present day gangs, which is why I believe that GTA London based would be better in the present day than 1969, diversity. The majority of these gangs could not be in a 1960’s set game, even including the football hooligans. Bear in mind some of the generalisation and stereotyping discussed above will come into play here. Gangs are grouped into sub categories: Sub Level, Street Level and Oganised.

Sub Level Gangs

 

Chavscum

Behaviour: Now Pojosama covered these guys pretty well but I’d like to add a few things. These boy’s (and girls, there should be female members of this gang) operate like wolves, they hunt in packs. One or two Chavs will generally leave you to your own devices, three upwards will act aggressively and may attack but unless there are upwards of four chavs then they will scarper if you stand your ground. Once you have a high respect rating they will protect you from street police and other street gangs as they want to impress you. They tend to congregate in large groups of around ten or more favoured locations include: shopping districts, street corners outside off licenses and in dark alleys/subways waiting for their next mugging/stabbing victim. Their favourite pastimes include: Muggings and stabbings, car theft, and vandalism. This gang is mostly white.

Business Interests: None. This group is made up of petty criminals and wannabes they have no real impact on the cities criminal industry. They get money from muggings and robbery i.e stealing car stereos and mobile phones along with the occasional house break.

Weapons: This gang are wannabe gangsta’s just as Pojo states and as they don’t really know anybody and have no access to guns. The weapon of choice for the Chav or Chavette is the knife, if they cannot get hold of a suitable knife then they wield improvised weapons like screwdrivers, bats and bottles.

Vehicles: Most are too young to drive cars so the majority use either BMX’s to get around or Mopeds, they NEVER travel alone on vehicles. The few older chavs that are higher in the pecking order drive ‘chavaliers’: four door sedans painted with a variety of mock Burberry patterns, their driving style is extremely aggressive and they are often the cause of crashes. Chavscum are the group that is responsible for most car jacking as such you will often see chavs in other peoples cars.

Rival gangs: The chavs are occasionally in conflict with asian sub gangs but are afraid of all the more organised gangs and tend to only attack the unsuspecting public, the elderly are their favourite target. The chavs are not respected by any other gang in the city, if other gangs come across chavs they tend to beat them up for fun.

Allegiances: Chavscum look up to all the other criminal gangs and a scared of them, they have some contact with the black and albanian street gangs and yardies from whom they buy drugs. They occasionally come into conflict with the asian religious gangs.

 

Asian religious street gang 1and 2

(Now there are problems in britain with gangs of asian youths, Sikhs and Hindus tend to be the groups in most conflict with each other. Obviously it would be too much for R* to make a Hindu and a Sikh gang instead they could make two fictitious religious groups)

Appearance: Each group wears a coloured head scarf/bandana one group could be yellow one could be orange. These gangs are Indian or Pakhistani in origin.

Behaviour: These groups tend to hang out mainly in their neighbourhoods, which are mixed in with each other and occasionally mix in with the hood’s of the black street gangs and the chavscum. They are rarely involved in actual crime when they are it tends to be klow level i.e mugging. The real beef with these groups is their religious fervour and they hate each other. They are constantly in conflict with each other, they are also in conflict with the chavscum. They are braver than the chavscum and operate in smaller groups, will stand their ground in a fight. They tend to congregate in the streets of their neighbourhoods and outside their parents convenience stores and on Curry Lane.

Business interests: These gangs are heavily into modifying cars, the money they save from abstaining from alcohol and drugs means they can afford better vehicles than the chavs, they run many of the London based cities autoshops. Their parents own the cities convenience stores and also run the curry house on Curry Lane.

Weapons: The religious gangs tend to use knives, they occasionally wield screwdrivers like the chavs but they never wield bottles as they are against alcohol.

Vehicles: The asian gangs always drive suped up hatchbacks and occasionally suped up sedans. Their cars have blacked out windows , custom paintjobs and rims etc. They can often be heard before they are seen as the Bangra bass booms out of their cars stereo systems.

Rival Gangs: Each other. First and foremost these two groups despise each other. Beyond deach other the only gang they have beef with are the chavscum and the national front football skinheads.

Allegiances: The asian street gangs are not really involved in much organised crime and have no allegiances.

 

Pikeys or Gypo’s (One and the same)

Appearance: Pikeys do not share standard attitudes regarding to their appearance and tend to look more on the unkempt side.

Behaviour: The Pikeys and Gypo’s spend most of the time in the compound of wherever it is they have chosen to set up their caravan site. The group is primarily Irish in descent though there are other ethnicities represented here, the Pikey’s are basically a tightly associated group of families who watch each others backs. There site tends to be full of burnt out cars. They are involved in a lot of crime in the city they tend to be responsible for alot of burglaries and hold none of the gangs in the city in high respect. If you stray into their caravan site you better have a good reason for being there.

Business Interests: One of the ways they make money is by setting up on private land and demanding money not to stay there. Other than that they will offer their manpower to other gangs.

Weapons: Melee weapons like Bats and Crowbars as well as Hunting Rifles and the occasional shotgun.

Vehicles: They pull their caravans around with twenty odd year old Cortina type sedans.

Rival Gangs: The pikeys are travellers so they are generally uninvolved in the gang scene however they have a beef with the english nationalist skinheads over the troubles. They are quick to make enemies however as they have no respect for the cities gangs, the East London Firm also have a particular dislike for pikey’s.

Allegiances: For the same reason they have few enemies in town they also have few friends though they do offer their services as thugs for hire so the smaller gangs like the South London Firm are likely to call on them from time to time.

 

Street Level Gangs

 

Black street gangs

Appearance: Flash, like bling and often are accompanied by their biatches.

Behaviour: There should be four or five of these gangs in the London Based city and they are fairly similar to the Gangbangers from SA. They are involved in distribution of drugs, they do not grow them they only supply them. They hang around in their hood’s and drive around the city looking for trouble. Aggressive, They will shoot at the slightest encouragement as it befits their ‘Gangsta’ rep, however they tend to be poor shots.

Business Interest: These gangs primary business interest is with the dealing of drugs which they purchase from either the Yardies or the Colombian Cartel. They are also involved in gun running, they buy from the Yardies and the Cartel and distribute to other U.K cities outside of London (Based City). Some will also be pimps for brasses.

Weapons: The weapon of choice for these gang’s is the tec9 however the majority of them cannot get hold of them and wield semi automatic’s instead. Some have only knives.

Vehicles: This gang drives around in big BMW 7 series type cars generally in Black or Dark Blue. The cars always have blacked out windows and the stereos can be heard blasting out the hardest of hardcore Jungle,dnb and old skool garage.

Rival Gangs: These gangs have beef with each other along territory lines and also along lines of ethnic origin. (It is not that widely known a fact that there are racial tensions within the larger ‘black’ community in London due to whether they are African or Caribbean in origin). However the scourge of these gangs are the Skinheads and if skinheads turn up in a black nieghbourhood they will forget their beef and work together against the skinheads. They also have a beef with the albanian street gangs who are also racist and encroach on these gangs street drug dealing interests.

Allegiances: Some of these gangs deal with the Yardies others deal with the colombians.

 

Ukranian, Kosovan and Bosnian street gangs

Appearance: Similar to the Russian Mafia but less manicured, they are big heavy eastern european thugs.

Behaviour: Extremely aggressive gangs.

Business interests: These gangs are involved in alot of street level crime, muggings, burglary, auto theft. They are also involved in the sex trade bringing in Eastern European girls for prostitution. The Kosovans have recently acquired a strip joint in Soho.

Weapons: Generally bats and knives some of the Ukranians are armed by the Russian Mafia.

Vehicles: Generally drive old low quality vehicles.

Rival Gangs: They have a big beef with each other on an ethnic level and also due to the sex trade competition. They also have beef with the Skinheads and also the Black gangs and Yardies as they share the views of the English Skinheads. The Kosovans have a beef with the Turkish and Greek Kebab street gangs.

Allegiances: These gangs are sponsored by the Russian Mob.

 

Greek and Turkish Kebab shop/van gangs

Appearance: Generally overweight and in their Kebab shop cook’s attire, Swarthy in appearance.

Behaviour: The Turkish kebab owners deal drugs on behalf of the turkish mafia out of their kebab shops and vans the Greeks are their national enemies and there is an ingrained animosity between them.

Business Interests: The Turks deal drugs for the Turkish Mafia.

Weapons: Meat Cleavers and Carving knives along with the very occasional Sawn-Off shotgun

Vehicles: Kebab vans. R3 Kebab Van missions anyone?

Rival Gangs: Primarily each other, they both have a beef with the Kosovans and the Turks have a beef with the Black Street gangs over drug dealing.

Allegiances: The Turks are closely linked to the Turkish Mafia and the greeks have a loose alliance with the East London Firm.

 

Korean Street gangs:

Appearance: Similar to the triads, Traditional dress but less sophisticated.

Behaviour: A new addition to Londons gang scene involved in the growing human traffic market they tend to keep a fairly low profile.

Business Interest: Involved in the huge market in illegal workers from east asia in the U.K

Weapons: Melee weapons and the occasional pistol.

Vehicles: The Koreans drive cheap but efficient Korean imports.

Rival Gangs: They are targeting a main area of business of the Triads so have beef with them, they also come into conflict with the Kosovan and Bosnian gangs who are also involved in the human traffic market. Obviously they are yet another target for the Skinheads.

Allegiances: The Tongs force the Koreans to pay them tribute to be able to operate and they often work for the Tongs.

 

NF Skinhead Football Hooligans (North London and South London. and visiting Northern thugs)

Appearance: Skinheads covered in England tatoos wearing anything form their football teams shirts to swastika bomber jackets. The two things they nearly always wear are their steel toe-cap boots and brass knuckles.

Behaviour: The main enjoyment that these boys get out of life is fighting and violence. They stalk through the streets of the London Based city in groups looking for other gangs to start trouble with.

Business interests: Primarily his group are thugs for hire. They also have an angle dealing stolen and snied goods and illegally imported beer at the market in the east end of Lowdown Town.

Weapons: The skinheads usually shun weapons, the majority of the settle for brass knuckles. Those that do feel the urge to go tooled up wield baseball bats or cricket bats and an improvised weapon called a ‘Chelsea Brick’ which is a rolled and folded tabloid newspaper. (Try it; roll a newspaper sideways and then fold it three times length ways, hit yourself with it and it WILL hurt, that’s a Chelsea Brick). They prefer to use their fists or give you a Glasgow kiss than shoot you, guns are for coward’s.

Vehicles: The thugs drive old but fast four door sedans, car’s based on Sierra and Escort Cosworths are the vehicle of choice for the skinheads. If they cannot afford those they drive suped up white vans. The visiting/northern thugs travel in coaches.

Rival Gangs: All ethnic gangs, these boy’s are fervently racist and hate the ethnic gangs above all else, they have their biggest beef with the black street gangs they also have beef with each other over the rivalry between the two local football teams. On matchdays there will be coach loads of visiting thugs hitting Lowdown town and when they do the local skinheads are out in force.

Allegiances: Some of these boy’s are related to or know members of the east and south london firms and have allegiances with these groups.

 

Biker gang 1+2 North and South London.

Appearance: They're a biker gang, what do you expect, Harleys and leathers

Behaviour: These gangs spend their time either cruising the city looking for trouble or hanging out at their respective pubs. They are only ever seen on their bikes or near their bikes when they are not in the area of their pub. They always travel in packs of around four upwards, on the London circular they can sometimes be seen in groups of around 20 harassing other motorists. If they do not know you or respect you they are more than likely going to be aggressive towards you and they certainly will not let you into their pub. They do not respect any of the other gangs in the city.

Business interest: Formerly disorganised and prone to pure thugishness influence from the American chapters of their gangs has them competing for supply of drugs and guns.

Weapons: They generally wield mele weapons holding a similar credo to the skinhead’s that only coward’s use guns, those that do carry tend to favour messy and brutal shotguns. Favourite melee weapons include bottles, chains and crowbars which they can wield from the back of their bikes Road Rash stylee.

Vehicles: Freeways and Angels. They love big American bikes and copy U.S biker gangs.

Rival Gangs: Primarily each other, they are competing for a small drug supply interest, their rivalry is like that of The Hells Angels and The Outlaws. The bikers like causing trouble and having fights so their favourite rivals are the skinhead hooligan gangs. They also come into conflict with the travelling pikeys on a consistent basis. Beyond that they have no respect for other gangs and are isolated from the rest of the criminal community.

Allegiances: None.

 

 

 

Organised Gangs:

 

East London Firm: (ELF)

This is the oldest and most influential gang in the city, it’s heartland would be around Stepney, Shoreditch and Bow in the real London, and a fictional take on those areas in the fictional take on London.

Appearance: Generally big hard case white cockneys, most have been trained as amateur boxers as youths and are strong handy characters. Faces.

Behaviour: Confidently aggressive. These boys don’t go out of their way to prove their point they won’t attack a stranger and are above petty crime, they do not commit muggings or home burglaries. They tend to work as crews of faces whatever they do. Congregate in many areas of the city north of the river, basically run the east end. HQ is a pub.

Business Interests: Anything and everything, except drugs. If there is a pie in London that does’nt make you high then these boys have got their (sovereign encrusted) fingers in it. They control the cities protection/extortion rackets plan and commit large scale heists, they are loansharks, they launder money, they print fake money, they commit fraud, run confidence scams, they run strip joints and brothels in Soho (Harlot), run clubs and they sell snied goods out of their market in the east end. Also they have recently opened a super casino in the west end where they have an uneasy partnership with the Liberty City Mafia. Basically if there is an angle they are in on it.

Weapons: The weapon of choice is the sawn off shot gun, some members also use semi automatics. They also use melee weapons like bats and wear brass knuckles. If you become their enemy they are likely to torture you before they kill you.

Vehicles: E-Type Jag like sports cars and Bentley and Rolls Royce type sedans.

Rival Gang’s: Their traditional enemies the South London Firm (SLF) are their main enemies as they have a beef going back a couple of generations. The SLF are always trying to take over ELF interest and there is constant rivalry between the two gangs. Beyond the SLF the ELF consider London as ‘their’ city and they take a dislike to any gang that goes against their wishes as such they have an emerging rivalry with the Russian Mob, The Turkish Mob and the Colombian Cartel. These gangs do not consider the ELF as more important than themselves and the Russian Mob in particular are causing them problems getting involved in areas and businesses that used to be dominated by the ELF such as the sex industry in Soho (Harlot).

Allegiances: Many members of the north London Skinhead gang work with the ELF and they have a strong alliance with them. The ELF also have a mutual non aggression understanding with the Yardies who generally keep out of the ELF’s way, most gangs in the city fera the ELF.

 

South London Firm:

The old enemies of the East London Firm, they came second in the race to control the city back in the 60’s and hold their grudges.

Appearance: The same as the ELF with a slightly different accent which only us Londonners would be able to notice.

Behaviour: The same as the ELF but less secure, they feel they have more to prove and are more openly aggressive. They are also less prone to standing on tradition and will work more with the foreign gangs.

Business Interests: Similar to the East London Firm again but they do not have an angle in Soho (Harlot) as that is north of the river. All of their interests are south of the River and they are more small time than the ELF as a result they are involved in the drug trade and are attempting to take control of distribution in south London away from the Yardies, they get their gear from the Colombian Cartel.

Weapons: They have the same sensibilities as the ELF and prefer the brutality of the sawn off, their contact with the Cartel means that they have access to all kinds of weapons however and they will also carry sub-machine guns and even AK’s.

Vehicles: A few drive similar vehicles to the ELF the majority drive suped up saloons.

Rival Gangs: Primarily the ELF they also have a big beef with the Yardies as they operate nearby on the south side of the river.

Allegiancies: The SLF are being used as pawns by the Colombian Cartel as they attempt to gain influence in the city. They also work with the south London skinheads.

 

Yardies:

Appearance: Very similar to the Yardies in Liberty, they may even have cousins over there. Dreadlocked Rastafari basically, they would hardly ever be spotted without a blunt.

Behaviour: This gang are only seen on foot in close proximity to their labs and crack dens as well as Ragga nightclubs that they control. Obviously they are seen on foot in numbers in their stronghold in Babylon but they mostly travel in two in their gang cars. They won’t attack you if you are not causing them trouble but if you do become their enemy. Their smoking makes them the most passive gang in the game.

Business Interests: Premier source of the weed in London, these boys have their own labs growing cannabis crops and also have an angle on production of the rest of the drug market. They sell some product to some of the black street gangs but tend to deal most of their product themselves, when they aren’t scoring off of it. They are also involved in gun running from America and tend to supply the Black Street Gangs with weapons.

Weapons: These boy’s tend to not shoot unless shot at but if they are shot at they are prepared; they carry AK’s, Tek9’s and at the least semi-automatics.

Vehicles: Of course the old faithful LC Yardie Lobo would make a come back. Their windows aren’t always blacked out but when they are not you still cannot see inside for the smoke. Obviously they would also be banging out ragga from K-Jah London along with reggae classics from a local yardie station.

Enemies: As with all the other ethnic gangs they are natural enemies of the Skinheads. They are being edged out of the drug market by the Turkish Mafia and the Colombian Cartel and are enemies with those two groups.

Allegiances: After the Jewish Mob and along with the Triads the Yardies were the first of the influx of foreign gangs and are tolerated by an even work with (on occasion) the ELF. They also deal with the caribbean black street gangs.

 

EDIT: I KNOW that in real life yardies are a VERY aggressive gang but I suggest they be laid back purely for stereotypes sake...

 

Triads

Appearance: Traditional Chinese style dress generally.

Behaviour: The triads are an extremely calculating gang that stand on centuries of tradition an ceremony. They are not openly aggressive and are not as large as some of the other higher profile gangs like the ELF, Yardies or Russian or Turkish mafia but their organisation makes up for what they lack in size. They know they are not the biggest fish in the pond here and are not overly aggressive, they tend to play other gangs against each other.

Business Interests: They are involved in bringing into the U.K large numbers of illegal workforce which they send off to other parts of the country and manage taking large chunks of these workers earnings as tribute. They also have an angle on importing certain drugs from east asia.

Weapons: The Triads favour clean precision weapons to more noisy or messy ones. They tend to use silenced pistols or SMG’s as well as meat cleavers if you surprise them in their restaurants in chinatown.

Vehicles: Big Lexus style sedans.

Rival Gangs: The Triads tend to cover their tracks well when they are stepping on other gangs toes however they are fighting to keep control of their interests from the more recently arrived tongs and the Korean street gangs. Though they supply alot of prostitutes like the Russians neither gang has a beef over it due to the difference in product.

Allegiances: The Triads make allegiancies when it suits them, they are adept at playing politics. They are in alliance with the ELF who prefer to tolerate their presence than the Tongs, this does not stop the Triads working behind the ELF’s backs however.

 

Tongs

Appearance: Generally younger and more flash than the Triads the tongs favour designer suits and suped up civics and skylines.

Behaviour: The Tongs are a fairly recent addition to the London gang scene having originally started up business in the UK in the mid 1980’s. They are an extremely aggressive gang and they disrespect the older more established east asian gang the Triads, with whom they are engaged in a gang war.

Business interests: They want to take over the human traffic smuggling from asia from the triads also involved in importing hard drugs from the east.

Weapons: Anything that makes alot of noise and mess, spaz12’s and uzi’s.

Vehicles: suped up skyline type cars

Rival Gangs: The Triads and also the Turkish Mafia.

Allegiances: The Korean street gangs pay a tribute to the Tongs.

 

Yiddish/Jewish Mob

Appearance: Yiddish dress, black clothes and beards and ponytails.

Behaviour: The Jewish mob is not openly a criminal entity but they control a large number of storefronts in LBC and are rumoured to have an involvement in the diamond trade and commit white collar crime. Their members do appear on the streets but do not attack other gangs.

Business interests: Commit large scale fraud and are rumoured to act as a front for smuggled diamonds. They also produce fake diamonds and are involved in confidence scams. They are a deceptively powerful gang in the city.

Weapons: Most are do not carry weapons, however the Jews that are responsible for protecting the Important members and take part in jobs are armed with M4’s supplied by mossad.

Vehicles: Big Black Mercedes style cars.

Rival Gangs: The Yiddish mob tend to be involved in high level crime and occasionally come into conflict with the Triads.

Allegiances: They have always had a good relationship with the ELF and still do.

 

Russian Mafia

This gang is quickly becoming the most powerful gang in the city and are threatening to become its mnost important gang over the east london firm. They are trying to exploit the traditional squabbling that has gone on between the two big English gangs and take control of the cities criminal industry.

Appearance: Big physically imposing russians usually dressed in designer suits.

Behaviour: Confident and organised,years of basically running Russia have made this gang a fearsome proposition, many are army trained and are accomplished combatants. Cautiously aggressive, they are looking to be known as the most important gang in town.

Business interests: Anything and everything, they run some guns and drugs but their main angle is in prostitution and they have a big presence in Soho. Basically they want to take over the city, they are infringing on every facet of criminal business there.

Weapons: Probably the most well equipped gang in London, they carry Ak’s and SMG’s, their hitmen carry sniper rifles.

Vehicles: Big off road BMW X5 style cars, they also have several helicopters.

Rival Gangs: Any other gang in the city could become their enemy as they intend to run it, their main focus at the moment is with ELF as they are the main gang in the city.

Allegiances: They have a loose allegiance with the eastern european street gangs, who they have some influence over.

 

Turkish Mafia

Now the biggest importers of drugs into the London based city dealing primarily with cocaine and heroin.

Appearance: Flash and swarthy, like rich versions of the turkish street gangs, they have alot of money but little taste, they dress like Tony Montana in 1980’s style suits and larey silk shirts with slicked back ponytailed hair, they most like to be seen with attractive young English girls on their arms. (or anything else!).

Behaviour: Similar to a street gang they are quick to turn to violence, a single Turkish mob guy will take on a group of other gangsters as they have more balls than sense.

Business Interests: Primarily the supply of hardcore drugs most specifically Heroin, they also run guns and human traffic and have started to encroach on the ELF’s extortion racket. They are also involved in the kidnapping and sale of English girls into the sex market for export.

Weapons: Shotguns and AK’s

Vehicles: Flash two seater sports cars like Ferraris and Porsches ( Cheetah’s and Comets). Speed Boats.

Rival Gangs: The Colombian Cartel is the main rival to the Turkish mob along with, to a lesser extent the Tongs, they only supply hard drugs so are not interested in the Yardies. They are also rivals with the ELF as they are becoming sure of their place in the city and no longer want to answer to the ELF. They are also rivals with the SLF and street gangs that deal in Cartel product and the Greek kebab street gangs. On top of that they are rivals with the Russian Mob who they see as a big threat to the balance of power.

Allegiances: The Turkish Kebab street gangs, these minor gangs enabled the Turkish Mob to gain a foothold in London and are often relatives.

 

Other Gangs that would/could occasionally appear in a London based city and game storyline.

 

Colombian Cartel

They supply the Black street gangs and have a beef with the Turkish mafia and the Yardies as they are a rival source of drugs. They have a stronghold somewhere in the London Based city possibly a dockyards where they bring their product into the country for distribution. This area will be patrolled by AK wielding cartel members in Cartel Cruisers.

Rival Gangs: They hope to take over the cities drug trade from the Yardies and the Turkish mafia and are beginning a campaign against them. The ELF are also an enemy as they work with the LC Mafia whom the cartel have a beef with. The Cartel are supporting the SLF in the hope that the SLF can take over the city from the ELF then Colombian drugs would have the monoploy on London.

Allegiances: The SLF and some of the black street gangs buy drugs and guns from the Cartel.

 

The Liberty City Mafia.

This gang has no influence or interest in the city but they are occasionally involved in partnerships with the east london firm who auspiciously control the city, the latest venture is the new super casino which the groups co-financed and is the first of the wave of Las Venturas style casinos set to hit London, mob guys can be found inside the casino compound and occasionally driving around the city, eating in Italian Restaurants or in the east london firms areas.

Enemies: Apart form the Cartel who they have beef with back in LC the Mafia have no real enemies here as they have little presence or influence in the city. They are partners with the east london firm however and will see the enemies of their partners as also being their enemies.

Allegiances: Obviously with their partners the East London Firm.

 

 

Miscellaneous Gangs: Non Criminals

 

Hare Krishnas

I’ve seen people request a return of these guys and as they are a common sight in London, particularly oxford street I thought I’d add them.

Appearance: Hare Krishnas, Bright red and orange togas.

Behaviour: They walk in single file lines up and down London’s busiest streets chanting. Car fodder.

Business Interests: None. They simply try to promote their way of living.

Weapons: None

Vehicles: None

Rival Gangs: None

Allegiances: None

 

Tourist gangs: American, Australian, Japanese

Appearance: Americans are heavy of frame they wear bright yellow or transparent rain macks and carry over sized video camera’s. Australians wear long khaki shorts and cork hats, they carry tinnies (Fosters). Japanese are small and carry advanced digital cameras.

Behaviour: They all congregate at tourist spots, the Aussies also appear outside bars. Americans are always asking stupid questions like “Do you know the Queen?”. Australians are generally drunk. Japanese take pictures of everything.

Business Interests: None

Weapons: Americans, Camcorder’s Australians, Tinnies, Japanese Cameras. They hit you with them.

Vehicles: None, but Americans can often be seen standing puzzled next to cars trying to work out how to use the gear stick or waffling about the wrong side of the road!

Rival Gangs: Each other.

Allegiances: None.

 

 

Key Gang Areas

Whilst I am elaborating on the gangs I thought I could spin some fictional gang areas based on where the gangs would have presense in real life.

 

Neighbourhoods

Now obviously each gang has its own neighbourhood which I wont go into specific detail on but these are the homes and strongholds of each gang, sometimes these areas are interspersed along the lines of the hoods in SA, when this is the case and when rival gangs stray into these areas or come looking for trouble then there will be conflict.

 

Babylon

Basically brixton this would be the area where most of the Yardie activity takes place, full of crack dens and Labs where they grow and produce their product.

 

Curry Lane

This area holds the curry houses of the two religious gangs and the area is a warzone between the two gangs as they are in close proximity due to their restaurants, there is a semblance of a truce inside opening hours but as soon a the curry houses close all hell breaks loose.

 

Chinatown

Does it need describing? If the London Based city was geographically accurate it would be near to the Soho (Harlot) area.

 

Harlot (or somesing)

This area would be based upon Soho and would be the area where strip joints, sex shops and brothels would be located The east london firm north london firm and the albanian street gangs have interests and conflicts here.

 

North London Football Stadium

New home of the successful North London football team it is a massive state of the art 100,000 seater stadium. The north London gang of skinheads can be found in this area. On match days (Saturdays) all hell breaks loose as coach loads of northern skinheads descend on the stadium to support their team, there are always large scale riots and confrontations between the skinheads at the stadium on matchdays. South London skinheads will also come up to the stadium looking for a fight with the rival teams fans.

 

South London Football Stadium

Similar to the north London stadium except it is an older and more run down ground, the south London club are less successful, the same activities take place on match day here. Perhaps matchdays could be different at this stadium, say Monday nights?

 

East London (Based city) Market

The market appears on wednesdays and saturdays and is run controlled by the east London firm. Skinhead thugs also use it to sell snied and stolen goods out of, it is a cause for conflict as it is set up in part of the asian religious gangs area. This is it’s traditional location and the east London firm used to control the area until increased immigration changed the ethnic balance in the area, the asians want the market out and the skinheads want the asians out.

 

Dockyards

This is the area where cargo ships unload into the city, it is is smaller now than it used to be and is right next door to the new business district of Skyscraper Island. The Turkish Mafia have a dock/warehouse area here for the import of drugs and guns and the only area of Colombian Cartel is found here where they also have a dock area.

 

Casino

Due to recent passing of legislation by the monarch the way was opened for Las Venturas (Vegas) style casinos to be built in London (Based City). The East End Firm went into partnership with the Liberty City Mafia to open the first mega casino in the west end, they needed to learn from the mobs expertise. There is an uneasy partnership between the two groups here and inside the casino is one of the few locations in the game where members of the mafia can be found.

 

That was not entirely fact based but all these gangs operate in London so it gives you an Idea

 

See that was MUCH better than one ‘ginawmas’ long post was it not, you could pick and choose what you read.

Edited by Medallion Man

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Rudde the Man

 

just to let you know, theres already a topic about this, and honestly i didn't see the reason for bumping this. we dont need anymore london topics. please look at this topic from now on:

Well..... duh.

You're complaining we dont need any more London threads but still you make one thats newer than any other London thread(including this one).

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Boothead

 

Triple post volume three: Return to the London thing

NF Skinhead Football Hooligans (North London and South London. and visiting Northern thugs)

Appearance: Skinheads covered in England tatoos wearing anything form their football teams shirts to swastika bomber jackets. The two things they nearly always wear are their steel toe-cap boots and brass knuckles.

Behaviour: The main enjoyment that these boys get out of life is fighting and violence. They stalk through the streets of the London Based city in groups looking for other gangs to start trouble with.

Business interests: Primarily his group are thugs for hire. They also have an angle dealing stolen and snied goods and illegally imported beer at the market in the east end of Lowdown Town.

Weapons: The skinheads usually shun weapons, the majority of the settle for brass knuckles. Those that do feel the urge to go tooled up wield baseball bats or cricket bats and an improvised weapon called a ‘Chelsea Brick’ which is a rolled and folded tabloid newspaper. (Try it; roll a newspaper sideways and then fold it three times length ways, hit yourself with it and it WILL hurt, that’s a Chelsea Brick). They prefer to use their fists or give you a Glasgow kiss than shoot you, guns are for coward’s.

Vehicles: The thugs drive old but fast four door sedans,  car’s based on Sierra and Escort Cosworths are the vehicle of choice for the skinheads. If they cannot afford those they drive suped up white vans. The visiting/northern thugs travel in coaches.

Rival Gangs: All ethnic gangs, these boy’s are fervently racist and hate the ethnic gangs above all else, they have their biggest beef with the black street gangs they also have beef with each other over the rivalry between the two local football teams. On matchdays there will be coach loads of visiting thugs hitting Lowdown town and when they do the local skinheads are out in force.

Allegiances: Some of these boy’s are related to or know members of the east and south london firms and have allegiances with these groups.

 

First of all GREAT POST!!!

 

Second, the skinheads wouldn't have to be NF or racist at all. A lot of skinheads aren't. You could make them fight with any other gang since most of the skinhead crews are extremely serious if it's about their turf. They also are one of the most fanatic football hooligans (well... they were). So they could fight the other football hooligans as well. Me and my subculte have a bad name as it is, GTA saying all skinheads are racist would make it only worse.

 

I think it would be great if the next gta would have real gang (fist) fights (like in State of Emergency) against other groups of people. They just walk the street see people from another firm or gang run to it and actually fight. It would be awsome and way better than SA. The shooting of those "blind" gangsters was pretty boring and very bad done.

 

Again great post. Would be a dream come true if it was like this.

 

As well it would be great to chose your own gang/firm/etc.

Edited by Boothead

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liberty-city-cocks-rule

God, how I'd like to blow some little chav's head off. Medallion Man, you truly are the king, if you don't mind me saying.

 

[EDIT] Presumably because it's set in London, all the football hooligans will be Man United fans. tounge.gif

Edited by liberty-city-cocks-rule

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farrugia

Medallion Man, I don't know how you manage to do it, but you still do (produce outstanding posts each time, that is). Well d cookie.gif ne. There's nothing left for me to say.

 

I'm sure I'll find this topic on page 1 when I come back from my self-imposed exile on February 5th. Maybe it will have reached its 10th page. rah.gif

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Scapegoat

You've certainly got the gangs covered Med Man, but just a couple of things...

 

Do you think the mafiosi type organisations (Russian, Turks, Triads, Firms) should usually hang out in around their own properties? For example, the Turks hang in and around their own businesses and dockyards. You've got over twenty gangs here, and making a lot of the organised ones hang out in and around properties and businesses would help to alleviate annoying gangsters shooting at you while you try and get some food. Its natural for the smaller gangs to walk the streets, but thats one thing I never really see as realistic when the mafia in GTA3 acted like one.

 

Also, you said something about the Yardies behaving passively... Are you certain? I remember reading news reports about a yardie shooting a pregnant women to death for hitting his car.I dunno, maybe it was a one off.

 

 

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NotoriousJay

For blocks like the earthquakes and hurricanes and damaged bridges you had in previous GTA's. In UK, England, London whatever you could have a petrol strike blocking the roads or the Hadrians wall could be having Historical whatever being done to it which could block the roads or you could have floods, storms or a London bridge with just a mechanical fault.

 

For guns you could have a series of gun dealers who hang around in back alleys and abondonded buildings, each one selling a differant sort of weaponry.

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Medallion Man

 

liberty-city-cocks-rule 

God, how I'd like to blow some little chav's head off. Medallion Man, you truly are the king, if you don't mind me saying.

 

Amen and only in London brother. Oh and ofcourse the Medallion Man doesn’t mind, The Pope and now The King! (uh-huh). You know, now you mention it, I do think I’ve got a little bit of Royalty in me somewhere, not in the biblical sense of course that’s just not the Medallion Mans style! wink.gif

 

Oh and I would say Liberty City Cocks rule but again, that’s just not my bag baby!

 

@Boothead: Skinhead-Stereotypes

When I wrote that post I was putting a R* esque spin on the gangs involved, splashing around the stereotypes. I meant no offense and you have a point, not all skinheads are racist, not all skinheads are NF or even football fans some of them just can’t be bothered with the hassle of a poncey haircut and like the feel of a shaven bonce.

 

The gangs mentioned in that post are all real London gangs but ofcourse this is GTA so stereotypes would come into play. One of the main stereotypes with Skinheads is that they are racists. Now like I say I mean no offense and I know that the whole skinhead look/sub culture is not racist, I know all about it’s origins related to Ska music and the early skinheads even took their cues from the fashions of the growing black immigrant community to London in the early-mid seventies. Not alot of people DO know about all that but I do so like I say I mean no offense. However this is GTA so stereotyping is a given.

 

Maybe a better way to play it could be to have ONE of the skinhead gangs is NF and racist and the other is against all that, maybe there could be the occasional black member of the more liberal skinhead gang. Oh and on your point re: the Hooliganism I’ve included all that in the skinhead segment, I also said that on matchdays northern football skinhead/hooligan gangs come down by the coachload looking for a tear-up. Each group hangs around their teams stadium etc.

 

Also on your idea of fist fights that is kind of what I had in mind with the Skinheads, they’d trawl the city in groups looking for other groups/gangs to start trouble/fights with. Also imagine this:

 

Saturday-Matchdays

On the matchdays imagine seeing a coach of visiting fans turn into a road near the stadiums where the native london skinheads are waiting to go to the game then the visiting fans pile out of the coach and begin a mass tear up with the London Skinheads! Heavy or not?! Also there could be occasions when you were strolling around the city near to one of the stadiums and you stumble upon the two groups of skinheads laying into each other en masse or see both gangs heading to a pre-arranged spot under the railway arches etc... Random ructions.

 

Like I say the stereotypes were in effect there but the main idea was to give those who are more naive towards what goes on in London an idea of the multi-faceted and diverse gang/criminal underworld we have here.

 

[/offtopic] Any Americans who think *ahem* sock-her is a sissies game would be best keeping that opinion to themselves if they ever met a member of the ICF or the Chelsea Shed Boys or the red army...They’d tear their throats off...

 

@Scapegoat: Gang Behaviour

Good points raised by you as always Scapegoat and I agree totally that next time the ‘Organised’ gangs should not simply walk the streets and should stay only in/around areas of business interest and strongholds. Gangs should be on different levels along the lines of those I set out in my post: Sub level-street thugs, Street-Gangs and Organised Gangsters, they should act differently according to their status and aspirations in the city and should also respond to each other along lines of status: a small street gangs members would not likely attack feared and notorious gangsters from one of the cities most powerful firms in real life so they shouldn’t in GTA.

 

If that was played out correctly then the more powerful firms would not need to walk the streets anyway.

 

Also on your point of the Yardies not being passive in real life, you are right and I remember the case you speak of, however this is GTA so once again stereotypes come into play. As a result I thought that a applicable stereotype for the yardies is that they are chilled out caribbean rastas who are too stoned to care half the time so would be less aggressive....”Dem brederins smokes cause dem likes a lickle chillin...” or somesing...

 

Plus I got bored of typing : aggressive as every gangs behaviour!

 

Of course in real life all criminal gangsters are fairly ruthless, even the least bloodthirsty amongst them would be pretty aggressive cats by nature.

 

Two More Gangs:

 

London Hells Angels Chapter.

I thought of another gang that could show up in a GTA London based city: Hells Angels/ Biker Gang. Now the Hells Angels is a global organisation which is both legitimate AND criminal, it has an element of both. There has been some trouble in the past over here with UK chapters of American biker gangs, I remember watching a documentary a year or so ago detailing the suspected and proven criminal side of biker gangs and how UK and other non-U.S biker leaders would meet with American bosses and were involved in drug and gun trafficking.

 

Perhaps there could be two rival groups like the Hels Angels and The Outlaws.

 

So there you go another familiar gang to compliment all the unfamiliar London-unique gangs.. Maybe Mitch Baker could make a comeback, he could be paying the London chapter of his gang a visit on ‘business’...

 

Hare Krishnas

I don’t know that R* would put these boys back in due to the series higher profile these days but I have seen people request their return. We have Hare Krishnas over here in London, they are quite a common sight on Oxford Street so they could make a comeback. Of course they aren’t criminals but they were a GTA ‘gang’ in the past so why not add them to the list?

 

--------

@farrugia 10 pages! I doubt it but that would be something!

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Moltar
London as the next game city is almost Definate. but I would hate being a girl, Being a Black person (CJ), OK! Being an Italian (Tommy Vercetti), Cool! being a girl? NOT COOL! NOT COOL! (Not that I am sexist I just don't feel right being a woman, Maybe you could choose at the begining?)

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Scapegoat

Good stuff there Med Man, I get what you're saying about making Yardies passiv' Jah-mah-cans.

 

 

Hmm, biker gangs would certainly be a welcome addition. They should hang in two distinct groups: In a swarm of around five or more bikes riders hogging the streets, or at the local bikie pub. Maybe your respect could come into play here, if you're not very well known when you come into their pub, they'd either try and kick your arse, make you feel very uncomfortable, or challenge you to pool or even maybe a mini-arm wrestling game? It could just involve rapid button pressing. In fact, that could possibly be a way to start receiving biker missions. Depending on your strengths and weaknesses, you could either arm wrestle them, play pool, maybe use charisma, or even have a good 'ol fashion race.

 

But Mitch Baker? Assuming it would be a modern GTA, Baker'd possibly be in his late 60s or 70s.

 

I'd really love to see chavs. Recently I've discovered this page, a brave interviewer following around a run of the mill chav. I'd love to beat up a semi-retarded drug induced piece of street trash. They should also beg for money on the sides of footpaths.

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agent_1138

Methinks you guys will dig this.... I posted this on the boxart thread, but I figured it goes well here.

 

user posted image

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Fuzzknuckles

That is beautiful!

 

Great stuff!

 

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Boothead

 

@Boothead: Skinhead-Stereotypes

When I wrote that post I was putting a R* esque spin on the gangs involved, splashing around the stereotypes. I meant no offense and you have a point, not all skinheads are racist, not all skinheads are NF or even football fans some of them just can’t be bothered with the hassle of a poncey haircut and like the feel of a shaven bonce.

 

The gangs mentioned in that post are all real London gangs but ofcourse this is GTA so stereotypes would come into play. One of the main stereotypes with Skinheads is that they are racists. Now like I say I mean no offense and I know that the whole skinhead look/sub culture is not racist, I know all about it’s origins related to Ska music and the early skinheads even took their cues from the fashions of the growing black immigrant community to London in the early-mid seventies. Not alot of people DO know about all that but I do so like I say I mean no offense. However this is GTA so stereotyping is a given.

 

Maybe a better way to play it could be to have ONE of the skinhead gangs is NF and racist and the other is against all that, maybe there could be the occasional black member of the more liberal skinhead gang. Oh and on your point re: the Hooliganism I’ve included all that in the skinhead segment, I also said that on matchdays northern football skinhead/hooligan gangs come down by the coachload looking for a tear-up. Each group hangs around their teams stadium etc.

 

Also on your idea of fist fights that is kind of what I had in mind with the Skinheads, they’d trawl the city in groups looking for other groups/gangs to start trouble/fights with. Also imagine this:

 

Saturday-Matchdays

On the matchdays imagine seeing a coach of visiting fans turn into a road near the stadiums where the native london skinheads are waiting to go to the game then the visiting fans pile out of the coach and begin a mass tear up with the London Skinheads! Heavy or not?! Also there could be occasions when you were strolling around the city near to one of the stadiums and you stumble upon the two groups of skinheads laying into each other en masse or see both gangs heading to a pre-arranged spot under the railway arches etc... Random ructions.

 

Like I say the stereotypes were in effect there but the main idea was to give those who are more naive towards what goes on in London an idea of the multi-faceted and diverse gang/criminal underworld we have here.

 

 

First of all, thanks for the great reply, you are also very up t odate on the subcultre, nice to know not everybody is as shorminded as most people.

 

You are right, it will probably be a stereotype. Anyway, if the fights become as you post it here it will be a great game. I don't know byt maybe R* would appreciate some of your ideas (when it's confirmed it will be London)? You could just mail everything you posted here, what do you have to lose?

 

Cheers

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Medallion Man

This thread has been up here for a couple of months now, floating around the front page for most of that time, stretching over six pages and getting over 100 responses and the best part of two and a half thousand views and not one argument has been presented to prove that a London inspired setting is not a viable location for the next GTA. Because of that fact I believe that the battle has been won. There is not one single logical or supportable argument that can be made against the next GTA game containing a London based setting. Thats it, thats the bottom line. It COULD be London based, it SHOULD be London based.

 

So having proven that London is totally viable as a location for the next GTA and that it is more than that, the BEST location to base the next GTA around I think that this thread should move in a different direction. What I am going to do now is show why it SHOULD be the location for the next GTA. This thread has proved that London contains everything required for a GTA game, what it will do now is show to the doubters the benefits of a London setting. The thread will now attempt to show why the series would benefit from a move to London, will show what different and new elements it can bring to the game and why it stands up taller and broader than other possible locations.

 

Please note: I have given the opening post a substantial overhaul and each argument presented and dissected in this thread is now detailed there so if you think you have an argument against a London based setting please check the first page before bringing it up: http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=160361&st=0 It’s also worth checking out if you are already familiar with this thread as I have added quite alot more detail...

 

Totally New

 

 

Vehicles

One of the things that some people are finding repetitive with GTA are the vehicles and the way that many of them are the same old same old. Moving the game to London would mean that the vehicle models could be given an extensive overhaul.

 

Straight away there are obvious examples that spring to mind for GTA:London vehicle models like black cabs, Routemaster buses, Rolls Royces, E-Type Jaguars and various types of Mini from standard to stretch limo variations.

 

However these are just some of the most obvious on top of those could be models based modern British sports cars like the Aston Martin Vanquish, McClaren F1, Jaguar XJ220 and TVR Tuscan plus classics like the DB5.

 

Beyond that of course there would be all kinds of european cars, which are more varied and common in europe than the states. the majority of cars in the UK would be based on marks such as Land Rover, BMW, Peugeot, Audi, Mercedes, etc as well as European American vehicles like Ford Focus’s, Escort Cosworth’s and Vauxhauls (GMC).

 

The whole set of vehicle models would get an overhaul, obviously certain vehicles would remain, cars like the Cheetah and Turismo based on the likes of Ferrari etc would naturally stay in a GTA London as would certain of the U.S cars like the GT40 inspired bullet and the cars based on east Asian marques would also remain.

 

The main area of change would be in the run-around standard saloon style vehicles as those cars are different over here than in the U.S. The models that companies like Ford and GMC make in the UK are largely different to those they makes for the U.S market, the main difference is due to fuel economy, in the U.S fuel is ALWAYS cheap, even when Americans think they are paying over the odds they are paying less than we do in the UK and Europe, as such vehicle design is different. Generally cars are smaller and lighter and have smaller bore engines, though that is not the same as less powerful or less well performing engines.

 

It would be one of the most interesting facets of a UK/European GTA to see R* take on classic and contemporary British and European vehicles.

 

 

Visual/Physical Environment: Architecture

As I have dealt with in the introductory post of this thread this is possibly the main reason that the series needs to expand beyond the U.S and that is to stop the visual/physical environment from becoming overly stilted. Now I know that some of the smaller minded U.S members are having a problem with grasping the reality of this concept.

 

However there are many obvious facts behind this argument, U.S cities are fundamentally extremely similar on an architectural/physical level: they all follow the ‘Chicago School’ approach to building and city development. They are comprised of skyscrapers in the downtown financial area, this are is surrounded by low quality high density housing, the Ghetto’s as well as industrial districts, once you move beyond this nucleus you find wide boulevards and picket fence suburbs. Due to the way and era that these cities grew in they are generally lain out in an ordered grided system of blocks.

 

Now I do not deny that there are cities that are unique in the U.S inspite of this, New York is the premier example in the world of a ‘Chicago School’/skyscraper city, I have been there and know from first hand experience that it is unique. Then in comparison to New York D.C is a very different city, dominated by the institutional buildings of U.S government.

 

However beyond a handful of examples the only difference with U.S cities is in their geographical setting, we’ve been to the east coast, we’ve been to the west coast. We’ve been to the desert, we’ve been to the swamps. We’ve been to hilly cities, we’ve been to flat coastal cities. We’ve been to cold climates, we’ve been to hot climates. We’ve been to skyscraper cities and we’ve been to borgeious novelty casino cities. We have been to NY, Vegas, Miami, San Francisco and L.A so what’s left? Cities that are little more than pale facsimilies of New York, look we’ve got six medium size skyscrapers and a lake! wowaweewaa!

 

London on the other hand is MUCH more chaotic and varied. The city has evolved over millennia, it has not been thrown up in giant growth spurts. The established nature of the city means it lacks the systematic logic of U.S cities, Skyscrapers sit alongside centuries old cathedrals and affluent areas sit side by side with slums. Look at the contrast between Sir Norman Fosters dildo-esque Swiss Re office tower and nearby Sir Christopher Wrens masterpiece that is St. Pauls Cathedral.

 

There is so much more variety as a visual/physical setting in London than in some minor U.S city. We have areas like the docklands, full of shimmering skyscrapers that Americans would feel at home in and then we have areas like regent street full of monumental regency architecture unlike anything in the U.S. In London the progressive contemporary architecture of the mayors office sits opposite the ancient tower of London, where in Detroit or Wilmington, Alabama will you find such variety. No U.S city contains the architectural variety that London does, not even New York which itself has plenty.

 

R*’s take on London would be a much more interesting physical setting for GTA than some bland,flat, featureless second string U.S city.

 

Like I have stated in my introductory post the only U.S cities that could really bring us a new experience as a physical setting would be D.C or New Orleans but I do not believe that they are ideal locations for a game based around organised crime.

 

 

Stereotyping

Another facet of the game that is becoming overly stilted, predictable and even strained is in the stereotyping. Moving to London gives R* a whole new culture to rip into, a fresh set of stereotypes as well as a possibility of another way to play on the U.S stereotypes with Americans in a foreign land.

 

Like I say all the stereotypes of British culture will be there for exploitation; The Dim Toff, the Kilted Scotsman, the bad food, prudishness and stiffness etc. for the Americans to enjoy or uncouth yob culture and lack of intelligence/culture/sophistication etc for the Europeans (especially the French) to enjoy. Like I have explained earlier in this thread the overall balance should remain the same with most ped’s being ‘normal’ if eccentric but all the British stereotypes would obviously be exploited over the radio etc.

 

Beyond that you could bring into play tourist stereotypes for the Brits to enjoy like the group of clueless, overweight jolly American tourist in a plastic rain mac asking stupid questions like “do you know the queen?” or “have you met my great auntie Maybel from Inverness?” or the Japanese Tourist’s wandering round with huge cameras taking pictures of anything and everything and jovial Australians wandering around in cork hats drunk and clutching a couple’a tinnies. Maybe these groups could even be classed as gangs similar to the way that the Golfers were in Vice?

 

Of course if the protagonist was American you could also play on U.S stereotypes in a different way by having him/her confronted first hand by their misconceptions when they arrive in a foreign land as a fish out of water...

 

 

Gangs

Yet another important area of the game that is becoming familiar and stilted is the gang scene with the gang scene in America being largely covered i.e the Mafia and Triads as well as SA which covered neighbourhood street gang’s.

 

The gang types of America have been largely covered with organised gangs like the mafia being extensively exploited as well as black and hispanic street gangs also exhaustively covered.

 

Moving to the UK would open the door on an equally varied gang scene that though it does contain certain familiar gangs like Yardies and Triads and the Russian Mafia who were touched upon in SA it also contains unique gangs like London ‘cockney’ crime families as well as NF Skinheads,football hooligans and Pikeys. On top of these unique gangs there are black and asian street gangs and chavscum as well as many kinds of European gangs that are not particularly active in the U.S from Albanians to the Turkish Mafia

 

London would bring a fresher perspective to the gang scene than more of the same in a second string U.S city whose gangs are often wanabe’s copying gangs of New York or L.A.

 

Check out page 5 for a detailed breakdown of some of the gangs active in London.

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=160361&st=80

 

 

Music

As I explain in the opening post of this thread on page one radio in the UK is extremely similar to that in the U.S playing much of the same music. As I stated back on the first page radio in London is about a 50/50 split between U.S and UK music and seeing as GTA:NXT will be on PS3 with Blu Ray discs the soundtrack on a GTA London would contain just as much US music as is present in SA.

 

However if the game is to be set in a London inspired city then it stands to reason that there should be specialist stations that focus on musical movements that have been or are big in the UK. These could include for example flash back stations like a 60’s Brit pop station, 70’s British rock station, Punk Rock /Ska station, 80’s new romance station, late 80’s acid house station, early 90’s grunge rock station to contemporary ‘pirate’ stations playing dnb, Jungle garage and bangra. These stations would be out of place in say a GTA Detroit/Seattle game but would be apt in a London setting and would bring a fresh vibe to the soundtrack to compliment the equally as prominent U.S music stations.

 

 

Unfamiliar familiarity

 

 

Mind your language

One of the most oft quoted reasons for keeping the game in the U.S is the language barrier. Well in London believe it or not we speak English, which is the same as the first language of America.

 

Personally the Language barrier is not an issue, I’d love to play GTA:Moscow or GTA: Tokyo, I have eyes and a brain and can read subtitles. For some however the language barrier IS a problem so the fact that the Americans speak our language means that unlike those places, London does not suffer from that problem.

 

 

Physical/Visual Environment: Architecture

As I went into detail on in the earlier section on architecture London contains many unique buildings and locations unlike anything in American cities which makes it a fresh physical setting.

 

However London, unlike some of the other non-U.S locations suggested also contains contemporary/modern architecture in areas like the docklands where Americans will feel totally at home.

 

 

Music

Seeing as the U.K is arguably the country most influenced and exposed to north American ‘culture’ pretty much any music you listen to in the U.S will also be listened to in the U.K. As a result of this the radio stations would remain pretty familiar to American ears.

 

Like I have explained in my introductory post the music is not much of an issue to me personally but again it is to some and again like language the music in the U.K would be familiar to American ears.

 

 

Going Underground

One thing I know that many people would like to see return is a subway/metro system. Well the London Underground is the oldest and most extensive subway/metro system in the world with 400 miles of track.

 

The Underground is full of abandoned stations and disused tracks so there is potential for a city under the city in a GTA London. Out of service tunnels could lead to ghost stations which could be easter eggs or even contain gang hideouts.

 

 

Gangs

Whilst as detailed above London contains many of its own gangs as well as gangs that do not operate in the U.S. However many of the familiar gangs used in the GTA series so far can make a comeback in a GTA London. Triads, Tongs, Yardies and the russian mafia operate in London so would make a return. South American drug gangs also operate in London so the Colombian Cartel could also make a comeback.

 

Beyond those gangs it could be possible to bring the mafia into GTA London. Now as far as I know neither the U.S or Italian mafia have ever had much influence or involvement in Londons criminal underworld, however I do know that there have been links in the past between English family crime firms and the U.S mobs, the Krays for example were known to have links with the mafia in New York. It would not be inconceivable for the mafia to have a presence in a GTA London game, one way to involve them could relate to casino’s. Recent legislation in the U.K has paved the way for Vegas style casinos to be opened in the U.K with several, including a Ceasars Palace proposed for London. So to have the mafia return you could have either the LC mafia or Tommy Vercetti going into partnership with a traditional London crime family who needed their expertise and experience in the casino game. Simple.

 

Other than all that you would be surprised by how similar the attitudes of black neighbourhood street gangs are in the U.K to their American counterparts.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So there you go London is ideally placed as THE candidate for the setting of GTA:NXT due to the fact that while it offers much that is totally new and different it also contains many familiarities that are similar to what we are used to from GTA locations.

 

Additionally a move to London would freshen up all the areas of the game that are becoming stilted, overly familiar and predictable: physical location, vehicles, stereotypes and gangs. Keeping the game in the U.S in some minor second string city will not solve those problems, instead it will exasperate them.

 

If you have come in here to slag off London please read the rest of the thread and the arguments presented and debunked before you post your argument. Also only post arguments if they haven’t been dealt with and only if they have a shred of credence;”Londarn sukexors” will simply be ignored. Like I have said with this post having proven beyond doubt Londons viability I would like to change tact and discuss the unique and different benefits of a London BASED setting.

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

@ Scapegoat

Totally agree on your points re biker gang behaviour (Infact I’ve also just updated the gang section http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=160361&st=80 to include them).

 

Oh and on Old Mitch Baker; sure he’d be getting on a bit by now but why not, the way I see it a hardcore biker like him would be riding his Harley into his grave. He would be the elder statesman and exulted leader of the whole international biker gang...

 

Also that arm wrestling mini game idea is GENIUS.

 

And on the chavs begging, they do do that: “Oi bruv, can I get fiddy p for some Bensons? oi bruv, gwon bruv...”

 

@ agent_1138

VERY nice, Andy Warhol-esque even. [/offtopic] I am a graphic designer by trade so I guess I should get round to knocking up some covers for farrugias thread myself, if and when I can get my lazy arse around to it!

 

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Pojosama

Yardies are actually extremely violent, and many smoke crack and cultivate other drugs, I believe.

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parkram412
<!--SS--><!--SF-->Not to say anything bad, but most of the buyers of GTA are from america (cause were to lazy to do anything) and that americans like to see games that replica america cause we are so stuborn, so I think the next one will be in either of these high crime cities atlanta, cleveland, chicago, akron, toledo. and maybe fly to london lol to solve those little queralls<!--EF--><!--ES--> wink.gif

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GTA3Freak-2001
<!--SS--><!--SS--><!--SF-->Not to say anything bad, but most of the buyers of GTA are from america (cause were to lazy to do anything) and that americans like to see games that replica america cause we are so stuborn, so I think the next one will be in either of these high crime cities atlanta, cleveland, chicago, akron, toledo. and maybe fly to london lol to solve those little queralls<!--EF--><!--ES--><!--ES--> wink.gif

That's a bit of a guess on your part, I am sure if you combined the amount of gamers who play GTA from Australia, New Zealand, UK and other Western countries you would have the same amount as the US. To say that because most gamers are american and that they want only US places is silly.

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SBizz6
I think that London would be perfect for the next GTA. I'm from the U.S., and personally I'd like to see the GTA series move away from the U.S. in the next game. London would be my first choice for the setting of GTA4.

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farrugia
That's a bit of a guess on your part, I am sure if you combined the amount of gamers who play GTA from Australia, New Zealand, UK and other Western countries you would have the same amount as the US. To say that because most gamers are american and that they want only US places is silly.

 

I'm from the U.S., and personally I'd like to see the GTA series move away from the U.S. in the next game. London would be my first choice for the setting of GTA4

 

And even if the US is the largest market, the quotes above prove that this market is not totally against a GTA london.

 

Therefore, parkram412's statement is a contradiction.

QED

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farrugia

 

The location of the next GTA

Rambling thoughts from an idiot

 

We have heard (those of us that bother to read all the topics, that is) countless arguments in favour and against the GTA series moving out of the States, mostly being concerned with London vs US location. I pitched meself on the side of the pro-London group more than once, and am still of the same idea. But I fear we risk losing the "global touch" of things, so I'll summarise what I think is the logical position on ALL the possible GTA locations. Listen carefully, for I shall say this only once.

 

1. Inside the United States

 

It is a commonly held misconception amongst descendants of the Pilgrim Fathers that the land they inhabit is the best place on the planet. This misconception is also shown in the way a lot of American friends shudder in fear at the thought that their beloved GTA may leave their birthplace. However, the idea that GTA's rightful place is the United States needs to be examined carefully before we even try to dump it in da dustbin. The main points in favour of a US location are that the majority of GTA buyers are from the US and that the series has been there and the reaction to that has been fanatastic. If it ain't broke don't fix it, they say. Also, the grid-like pattern of US cities makes for ideal navigation and carchases, and jibes at the US mentality are always ripe for the picking.

 

Good points, all of them. Unfortunately not good enough. Had the If it ain't broke... saying been followed all of the time, we humans would never have evolved out of our cave dwellings, much less invented Internet. Innovation is the spirit of Creation, and another US proverb says Been there, Done that. That, in a nutshell, is the problem with a US location. GTA has covered the Mafioso East Coast, the groovy Miami of the 80s and the gangsta East Coast. We've done New York, Miami, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Las Vegas. We have included swamps and deserts and mountains and roads. What else of the US is there to explore? Not much sadly, save for the Alaskan North (in which missions would be limited to poaching polar bears and running an Inuit gang). The US offers no more scope of innovation, it is as stifling to GTA now as it was life-giving to it in the beginning. GTA has grown up now. It needs to exit its parents' house and find a dwelling of its own.

 

2. Bogota, Brasil or other cities in the Americas

 

Funnily enough, a lot of US citizens advance these theories because they are loathe to let GTA escape to their European cousins. "Anywhere but Europe", the credo goes. These places have some alluring principles. Soaring Crime Rates, Corrupt Police, Vicious Gangs and Drugs Drugs Drugs are some of the good things mentioned. I even saw one clamouring for a border-crossing mission from Mexico to the US.

 

All well and good. But do these good points win over the bad points? These bad points include a lack of indigenous culture that would appeal to GTA gamers. What would a Mexican location offer. Deserts, Spanish and tortillas. Now why does this remind me of San Andreas? The basic problems with these locations is that they are not famous enough. A trademark of GTA has been taking popular (mis)conceptions on the US culture and playing with them till they ached. How can they do the same to the cultures of Bogota, for example, if the public at large has no friggin idea of what the cultures of Bogota are. How can you take a one-line cliche (Bogota = drug lords) and from it create a new environment? The same applies to Brasil and Mexico. They are interesting in their own right, but not as interesting as to deserve a GTA treatment, sorry.

 

3. Canada

 

Not much to say on this one. Canada is too close in terms of culture to the US, and not as popular in the World's eyes. A GTA: Canada would be almost indistinguishable from a GTA set in the US, and suffer from the same defects (see above).

 

4. Africa, or African Nations

 

There was a topic not long ago which tried to investigate this scenario. The 'good" things about Africa is the almost epidemic crime rate and the endemic lawlessness that runs everywhere. You also get to shoot at game animals and meet Al Qaeda.

 

Seriously now. Why should the next GTA be a safari-simulator. With all due respect to any citizens of Africa who might read this, Africa is not important or interesting enough to put a GTA game there. Few people outside it know anything about what goes on inside Africa, and fewer even care. A GTA in Africa would risk being a bland, generic description of a vast savannah with lawless cities. It is too easy to focus on the problems of the African societies and make fun of them, without realising that what we are making fun of is much more serious than the American love of guns, for example. It would be more a racist take on Africa than anything else, and few people apart from the kKK would get any pleasure from playing it.

 

5. Asian locations excluding Tokyo

 

Following the of Chinese films such as Hero and House of the Flying Daggers, a lot of people are imagining themselves as ninjas, or warriors of teh Asian steppes. Unfortunately, few people then offer valid reasons why an Asian location would make sense, other than "Asian chicks are TEH Hootttt die2.gifdie2.gifdie2.gif ".

 

Undertaking an are as diverse as Asia requires one to stop and think. Some countries would be irrelevant. So out go Nepal, Bangladesh and most of China. The viable place would be a huge city such as Hong Kong and Shangai. So let us imagine we are Rockstar, trying to implement Shangai. We do not want a realistic description, so we'll opt for a humorous version. What do most people know about Shangai? It is big, it is Chinese => Martial Arts, and there are Triads, and erm... that's all. So what can we do? An inflated version of Chinatown? Sadly, that would be it. Locations such as Shangai suffer because the general public's pre-knowledge of the place is limited. We would get an over-inflated and overdone Chinatown. Playing it would be like biting into a huge sponge cake that fills up your mouth to choking point but offers little in the terms of unique tastes. It wouldn't be worth the price, better off buying a Shangai Kid game.

 

6. Tokyo

 

This can be said to be the third most popular choice after London and the US. It is a huge affluent city with very high technology. It has perfect modes of mass transport, zillions of cool cars, and if some games are to be believed, a thriving street racing culture. And Japanese schoolgirls are too hot for words. Besides that we already have knowledge of the Yakuzas and their environment, and Kill Bill Volume 1 kicked ass.

 

Perfect reasons over there. But can that be turned into the next GTA? Maybe, but various problems need to be cleared first. Let's start with the language barrier. To be truly Japanese, the characters must all talk in Japanese. No problem over there you might say, we can still read subtitles. But what about the peds? Are we ready to sacrifice a more intimate relationship with peds just because we can't understand what the f*ck they're saying? It was ok in Midnight Club 2, people never said anything that would inerest us, but that'snot the case in GTA. So we have to make everyone talk in English. Where does that leave us though? A Liberty City with Japanese Cars and the Yakuzas in place of the Mafia. You'd have Hirohito instead of Salvatore, but little in the way of substance would change. The inclusion of Katanas would be a welcome distraction, but didn't we have Katanas since Vice City? It would be nice to have ninja-style missions, but where does the boisterous GTA aspect come in during ninja missions? Are we ready to sacrifice all that just for taht ninja-feeling? Wouldn't our needs be met more if we got a thriving Japanese community in a setting that was not Japanese? If we want 100% ninja, wouldn't it be better to spend our hard-earned cash on some ninja game? Besides all that, Japanese and businesses can be transplanted everywhere with few complications. They are everywhere already.

 

7. Australia

 

No offense, but Australians are best utilised by the GTA franchise as weird guests on radio shows, as enemies during the Ammunation commercials, or as tourists in London another location.

 

8. Europe excluding London

 

Finally we are forced to come to Europe. I can already hear whinings of "But Europe is gay" and "European cars suck". I have already answered those half-ass comments in their respective threads and will not do so now. However, if I hear them again I'm gonna track that idiot down and slit his throat. So, the good points of Europe. The good thing about Europe is that it is split into several well-defined countries which have their own individual cultures. The point is not: "Does Europe contain places that are worthy of a GTA?" because that is a sure yes but "Should Europe be covered in one chunk or should some European location appear in an eventual GTA trilogy?" Proponents of the one chunk idea argue that nothing beats crossing borders at "high rates of speed" or wreaking havoc upon city and city and city and... The cultural differences of Europe would come better, they say, if you could drive from one of them to the next. You could get San Andreas but with Europe instead of California.

 

The problem with that is that Europe is much larger than California, and unlike good ol' Cal it has much more than 2 (Las Vegas is in Nevada) distinct locations that signify it. So putting Europe all together is not much a problem of "What will I put in?" but one of "What will I leave out?" This leads to the Size vs Detail topic which I really won't go into here. Just suffice to say that I don't think a sheer "OMG that's huge" factor is good enough to merit my money. There must be a deeper level of detail that cannot be reconciled (Blu-Ray notwithstanding) with a game area the size of Europe. Besides, the last time they started GTA (GTAIII) it ended up becoming a trilogy that covered a whole continent. Why shouldn't the next one do the same thing to Europe? This brings us to:

 

9. London

 

The whole of the topic above me deals with the virtues of London as a location. I've got nothing to add to that. I'll just run through why, in an eventual European Trilogy, London is the place to start.

 

London is the European city closest to America and American culture. And GTA cannot afford to dive into the deep end with some obscure continental mentality at the very beginning. London provides the perfect gateway into Europe for all those "Am8r1can ret0rz" who can't wrap their minds around European culture. Apart from that, London's merits per se provide a perfect way to start a new franchise. It is a brilliant location, even though nobody is expecting a full-scale represantation. We are all in favour of a London-like city, with familiar landmarks such as the Big Dick tower and The Prison of Lowdown. Long live the Queen.

 

10. A Giant Megalopolis

 

As in any other situation, there exists the possibility of a wildcard entry in the form of a totally fictional Megalopolis, possibly situated in the near future as in GTA2. An immense concrete jungle, ruled by gang lords and assorted criminals, where survival of the fittest is the name of the game. This would give R* much more creative freedom, to do what the hell they like. In my opinion, however, it would spoil the chance for a GTAV being set in that way, on PS4 technology, to end GTA with a bang. That is, if they plan on extending the franchise that far. Imo, however, elements of the megalopolis should make their way into a possible London setting, to enhance the urban situation.

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MissileDefender

Does every1 want 620square miles of Urban terrian?

Cuz i certinaly dont

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farrugia
Does every1 want 620square miles of Urban terrian?

Cuz i certinaly dont

Compared to 620square miles of boring, monotonous countryside it is preferable yes.

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Medallion Man

First of all I’d like to thank farrugia for his excellent post above. I agree with much of it (especially the reasoning behind the ‘anywhere but Europe’ credo)and it logically deals with the pros and cons of each approach pretty comprehensively, showing why when the dust settles London is the location left standing. Couldn’t have written that better myself.

 

Monetary Malcontent

In reality the global breakdown of GTA:SA sales figures is as follows

50% of the market U.S (1/2)

25% of the market U.K (1/4)

25% of the market everywhere else. (1/4)

http://www.gamestm.co.uk/pma/230

 

So you see a quarter of the GTA market is the U.K.

 

On top of that on these forums for “every omfgz no europe/london lolz” American there is a sane rational thinking American (as SBizz6 proves) so I’d say that the anti Europe/London brigade only make up around 25% (probably less) of the market themselves so they are no more important than the U.K buyers. If 25% of the market in the U.S is made up of open minded buyers add that to the 25% which is UK based and the 25% that is the rest of the world and the figures pro london outweigh those against: 75% pro vs 25% against. Beyond that I’d also predict that the vast majority of the anti gang would cave in and buy a non U.S GTA pretty readily anyway and find out how wrong they were. A London set game would sell at least as well as any GTA to date.

 

The Architectural Diversity Debate...

Another thing I’d like to do while I’m in here is emphasise one of the points I’ve made in here; that London is a far more diverse and different physical setting to what we’ve seen than YET ANOTHER U.S city. I’ve gone into detail on the fundamental architectural similarities between U.S cities earlier on in this thread, I won’t again, like I say I’m ignoring geography and looking at the man made environment of the city itself. (Check my last post above this one for a discussion of this point). Purdy Pictures time.

 

I’m ignoring the cities we’ve been to already and those I agree are different e.g D.C (thats about it) and focusing on the rest: Spot The Difference time:

 

user posted image

 

Are you beginning to see the pattern emerging here, nondescript contemporary post-modern skyscrapers at the nucleus of the city. All a bit much of a muchness. Not a million miles aprt from what we’ve already seen really is it?

 

London on the other hand:

 

user posted image

 

Nothing new here, familiar skyscrapers which London has it fair share of and will be getting more of in the near future.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/.

 

user posted image

 

Now this however is a million miles away from what we are used to and unlike anything we could see anywhere in the U.S. These are but a few of the multitude of examples of diverse and sometimes ancient structures in London I could easily go on.

 

user posted image

 

London also has many structures that would be ripe for parody like the Swiss Reinsurance tower would which is nicknamed the Dildo for obvious reasons. Then R* could make a London fair ground parody of the Millennium Dome which is basically a massive tent and the London Eye, a giant ferris wheel. You also have the Millennium Bridge which wobbled when it was completed-The wobbly bridge.

 

I think this reinforces my points re: Londons unique architectural diversity which sets it apart as a physical setting. At the same time however it is not totally removed what we are used to from GTA cities as a progressive city not rooted in the past. London as a physical setting contains unparralleled architectural diversity. FACT.

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MissileDefender
Does every1 want 620square miles of Urban terrian?

Cuz i certinaly dont

Compared to 620square miles of boring, monotonous countryside it is preferable yes.

At least have some country side or water

Besides, if your gonna fly a plane, do you wanna dodge buildings?

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farrugia
Does every1 want 620square miles of Urban terrian?

Cuz i certinaly dont

Compared to 620square miles of boring, monotonous countryside it is preferable yes.

At least have some country side or water

Besides, if your gonna fly a plane, do you wanna dodge buildings?

The point isn't that we shouldn't have countryside.

 

The point is that we should give a priority to the urban environment over the countryside aspect.

 

Countryside should just be an area surrounding the main city where nice things such as combine harvesters are found. The focus of the game should be the city, and that's where these past GTAs where a failure. We never had a city. We had villages, towns maybe, but nothing large enough to be qualified as a city. We didn't have the multitude of building styles, the claustrophobic effect, the feeling of total helplessness as you're trapped by the crime wave that bathes the street level, as the rich guy lans nonchalantly by Helicopter some 100 storeys above you. Real, large, cities have this effect of separation between ground level alleys, and the posh apartments further up. The GTA cities in SA we have gotten are small blots on the countryside we race through. We could never ever develop a "relationship" with the city, primarily because the city is too f*cking small to start with. (Go to my Living City topic to see what I mean by "relationship) And if you (not you as a person, in general) go on insisting we want a larger area, a whole country/continent without keeping this in mind, we'd have lost totally the unique feel that GTAIII still has over its offspring.

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MissileDefender

Its only fun if they get it right

Theyll Fu*k up on it, n go unrealistic

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farrugia
Its only fun if they get it right

Theyll Fu*k up on it, n go unrealistic

Not necessarily.

 

Rockstar's urges are not to go realistic. Alas, there seems to be some evil influence that wants them to go it MMORPG style. notify.gif

 

However, it would be much less enjoyable if all Rockstar did was put in a large area of land, some 6 cities of the kind we're used to and added some new vehicle. Don't you agree?

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Medallion Man

 

farrugia

Countryside should just be an area surrounding the main city where nice things such as combine harvesters are found. The focus of the game should be the city, and that's where these past GTAs where a failure.

 

I agree with you farrugia, people in general need to realise this. GTA by definition is set in cities, the countryside whilst a nice distraction, is but a bonus.

 

Because of Londons sheer size and physical diversity (as I build upon in my last post above yours) is perhaps the ideal location for a game set in a Mega Metropolis.

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farrugia
Because of Londons sheer size and physical diversity (as I build upon in my last post above yours) is perhaps the ideal location for a game set in a Mega Metropolis.

You'll find me in 100% agreeance there.

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