XBox & PC - Wishlists and Discussion

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OFFICIAL DISCLAIMER AND INFORMATION: [READ NOW!]

 

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for the Xbox® and PC will be in stores in North America on June 7th, 2005 and in Europe on June 10th, 2005.

 

Other than this statement from Take-Two, no other information is known about the PC and XBOX® versions of this game.

 

 

DO NOT POST ANY THREADS ABOUT GTA:SA PC/XBOX UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THIS!

 

 

Although I’m sure a few of you hear and know a lot more about RenderWare and GTA in general than me, I still think its important we try and establish what we really want to see in the PC version and what is really possible.

 

Let’s face it, GTA:VC for PC was released in 2003. Now 2 years later when GTA:SA comes out of PC, hardware will be far more advanced then the average PC in 2003. Lets also take into account that many people have gone out and bought PS2s purely for San Andreas, and don’t have any of the other GTA games on PS2 (me for example).

 

So now, I just want to take the time to compile a little wish list of what would make us buy another copy of San Andreas so we can play it on the PC. So without further pointless rant let’s start the wish list.

 

GRAPHICS:

• Ray Tracing:

This has been demonstrated in other games using the RenderWare engine and has even been used slightly on the PS2 version of San Andreas. Ray tracing is simply tracing rays of light from the object to the screen. This allows for reflection, refraction and other properties that natural light takes. In the PC version I would like to see this improved with all objects being ray traced so that each part of the game reflects and looks more realistic.

• Draw Distance:

In both PC version Vice City and GTA3, we were given the option to increase or decrease the draw distance, depending on our pc hardware. Vice City gave us the ability to increase our draw distance a lot further then the PS2 version. For San Andreas PC, most computers would be able to render whole chunks of the city at one time. I’m talking not noticing things popping up at all, as far as the eye can see the game is rendered. In all GTA3+ games objects in the far distance, the game automatically lowers to a horrifically low resolution texture, and then switches to a higher resolution as you get closer; however at extreme speed this change is noticeable on the PS2. SAPC should eliminate this entirely by rendering things at least 50-80x in front.

• Texture Filtering:

This has been used in most games since the start of the century, including GTA3+. When a surface has a property of characteristic that is not the same in all directions (for example, wood grain, tire marks on a runway), anisotropic filtering can be used to blend those features in one direction only (the lengthwise direction, the direction of the grain) so as not to diminish the separation detail. San Andreas achieves this quite well, but is often up to hardware to really make the difference and PC graphics card is light years ahead of the PS2 in terms of texture filtering. San Andreas PC should incorporate Antistropical filtering, which uses an elliptical kernel whose shape and orientation depends on the projection of the destination pixel onto the texture map. This makes textures A LOT sharper.

• Anti Aliasing:

Everyone is familiar with this. When a line is drawn on a TV screen, the horizontal pixels are not close enough for arcs to appear properly. Therefore on most graphics cards AA is used. Anti Aliasing is a technique used to make diagonal or curved edges appear smoother by setting pixels near the edge to intermediate colors according to where the edge crosses the underlying color. This has perhaps the most profound graphical improvement on the game. It just makes the game really scream out with colours, smoothness and sexiness. This should be implemented into the options screen of SA as not very many people know how to enable it from their graphics card control panel.

• High Res TXDs:

Textures are scaled right down on the PS2. The TXD convolution kernel has quite low resolution textures and I am sure the source version is a lot higher. San Andreas PC should definitely incorporate high resolution textures in their IMG file.

• Z-sector depth:

This is wishing upon a star I think. Z-sector depth is assigning surfaces in game a specific thickness so it can have its own shininess. (Looks really good DX9, but I think SA will be DX8.1)

 

 

 

GAMEPLAY:

• Controls:

Using the keyboard and mouse has been always faithfully re-invented from the controller for use on the PC. However in San Andreas there is a whole new wad of control functions that need to be incorporated onto the keyboard and mouse setup. Firstly, walking speed should be controlled by the mouse wheel when on foot, default is run, but rolling the mouse speed back will allow you to sneak (ala Splinter Cell). The pitch tilt buttons would control weapon cycling. Helicopters and aircraft have always been difficult to control on the PC. Control Pitch is especially hard on keyboard because you can’t half hold in the button. I think a new system is in order, where the longer you hold a pitch control button the further it tilts. So for example if you where to only tap the NUM_9 key lightly, the helicopter or plane would only slightly tilt forward and stay that way even when you release the button.

• Aiming:

This has generally been done in prior PC versions of GTA3 and VC. Aiming is a trillion times easier with a mouse so auto-aiming really should be scrapped for the PC version.

 

 

AUDIO:

• EAX2:

This is a MUST. 4 would be nice, but I can’t see that happening.

• Point Source Audio:

Would be cool. Audio originates from a point and is tracked so it appears in a 3D space.

 

 

 

NEW/IMPROVED FEATURES:

• Online Play:

No. MTA have been doing this as a passion and for Rockstar to just chuck something would be a shame.

• MP3 folder:

Instead of having to put MP3s in a folder, let us choose the folder instead, make it a lot easier.

• Analog Control Mapping:

Rockstar should implement better gamepad/joystick compatibility. The only way I could use my Xbox controller (with adapter) in VC was to use an Analogic Mapper, and even then the controls were a bit buggy. Rockstar should implement full analog control compatibility. It would be nice to control C.J. on foot with the mouse/keyboard, and then drive/fly/etc. using a gamepad.. -GTAguy

 

 

 

 

So there you have it a nice little explanation of what should be in GTA:SA. Please if you have any other things you want to add to the list go ahead.

Edited December 17, 2004 by [email protected]

[[email protected]]

made a few changes, fixed spelling/grammar and added some stuff.

Edited November 9, 2004 by [email protected]

[GTA3Freak-2001]

Don't bump your own topic please, anyway not a bad little topic but I won't pin it yet. Might talk to some of the other staff before doing anything ok.

[Anabolic]

Good thread? Yes. Worth pinning? No.

 

edit: ok, it's worth pinning after the add-ons.

Edited November 10, 2004 by Anabolic

[[email protected]]

Hrrmm, just thought it might cut down on the number of pointless PC and XBOX topics, maybe I should add a section about known info on the PC and XBOX versions.

[GTA3Freak-2001]

Yes your right, adding that might be a good idea.

[[email protected]]

Added. Maybe this validates a pin. If you want you can copy paste it into a post from a moderator. You don't have to pin this exact topic.

[GTA3Freak-2001]

Come to think of it, there was a pinned topic about the PC version of Vice City so I think I'll pin this. It should be a hot discussion in the coming months leading up to May/June.

[GTAGuy]

As for the controls, I think Rockstar should implement better gamepad/joystick compatibility. The only way I could use my Xbox controller (with adapter) in VC was to use an Analogic Mapper, and even then the controls were a bit buggy. Rockstar should implement full analog control compatibility. It would be nice to control C.J. on foot with the mouse/keyboard, and then drive/fly/etc. using a gamepad.

[excalibur69]

actually, Rockstar HAS sent out press releases to alot of the major game sites about a month before SA dropped for PS2, stating the game is coming for PC, in their 3rd fiscal quarter (May 05 - July 05)

 

dont believe me?

 

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/gta4/news_6107098.html

 

there you go. its been on numerous other game websites. as for xbox, nothing is announced so i couldnt tell you even if its coming out at all for it

 

and why in the blue hell would anyone want to use a control pad for PC, there are like a hundred buttons on the keyboard you can allocate to anything you want. i dont know, but i have never had a problem driving (with keyboard), use the mouse to control the main character, and use the NUMpad to control planes (all in VC). i think they should leave the control scheme exactly like they did in VC for PC

Edited November 9, 2004 by excalibur69

[Target]

Nice topic. I'd like to see (from the community) A mod that adds LC and VC into SA's sea. Seen how huge it is? They could easily be fit in there.

 

And anyway, on one mission you flynorth-easterly to Liberty City. I'm sure it will happen.

[TempEcho]

i think it will fit. Anyways , the countdown to the altest day of the 3th fiscal quarter of 2005 is in my signature , thats the latest day GTA SA will be released. I tcan be earlyer. Only 265 days! WHOOHOO!

[vALKYR]

Nice topic. I'd like to see (from the community) A mod that adds LC and VC into SA's sea. Seen how huge it is? They could easily be fit in there.

 

And anyway, on one mission you flynorth-easterly to Liberty City. I'm sure it will happen.

It's your lucky day. GTA SA is an infinite game world. That means modders could put Liberty City, Vice City and San Andreas into one game. Now think of that one kthx.

 

-vAL

[GTAGuy]

and why in the blue hell would anyone want to use a control pad for PC, there are like a hundred buttons on the keyboard you can allocate to anything you want. i dont know, but i have never had a problem driving (with keyboard), use the mouse to control the main character, and use the NUMpad to control planes (all in VC). i think they should leave the control scheme exactly like they did in VC for PC

I'm not sure if I made myself clear, but I too use the mouse and keyboard for controlling the character himself and I would rather do that than to have auto-aim, and I too am used to driving with the keyboard.

 

Flying is no different, yet it would be convenient to fly and drive with an analog stick, so you can have the extra precision that a digital keyboard key just doesn't have...

[djtocsik]

As stated with the "let us choose our own MP3 folder"

 

I'd like to see more control over the music

 

such as a cd type player to go along with the radio where we could cycle thru the music with 2 keys could be titled "cd player" instead of it just constantly playing thru.

 

Along with that have several radio station folder's.....that way we could set up multiple radio stations for each genre."rap" "rock" etc.

 

1 last thing about the stations....1 unique station that we could use to type in a IP and port to our favorite internet radio station....Now that'd be nice to have.

 

I'd have to agree about controller support for while in a vehicle and mouse and keyboard while on foot.....auto aim is horrible and driving would be alot better with the analog controller.

[GTA3Freak-2001]

actually, Rockstar HAS sent out press releases to alot of the major game sites about a month before SA dropped for PS2, stating the game is coming for PC, in their 3rd fiscal quarter (May 05 - July 05)

 

dont believe me?

 

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/gta4/news_6107098.html

 

there you go. its been on numerous other game websites. as for xbox, nothing is announced so i couldnt tell you even if its coming out at all for it

 

and why in the blue hell would anyone want to use a control pad for PC, there are like a hundred buttons on the keyboard you can allocate to anything you want. i dont know, but i have never had a problem driving (with keyboard), use the mouse to control the main character, and use the NUMpad to control planes (all in VC). i think they should leave the control scheme exactly like they did in VC for PC

Yes we know this, anyway about the controls issues. SA has a lot of added stuff, and most of these really make use of the PS2's Analog sticks. The dancing missions comes to mind along with the gym aspect so Rockstar are going to have to implement either better gamepad support or find some other way around it. I agree that I prefer using the mouse and keyboard to control Tommy/CJ but when driving, thats where great gamepad compatibility comes into it

[excalibur69]

 

actually, Rockstar HAS sent out press releases to alot of the major game sites about a month before SA dropped for PS2, stating the game is coming for PC, in their 3rd fiscal quarter (May 05 - July 05)

 

dont believe me?

 

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/gta4/news_6107098.html

 

there you go. its been on numerous other game websites. as for xbox, nothing is announced so i couldnt tell you even if its coming out at all for it

 

and why in the blue hell would anyone want to use a control pad for PC, there are like a hundred buttons on the keyboard you can allocate to anything you want.  i dont know, but i have never had a problem driving (with keyboard), use the mouse to control the main character, and use the NUMpad to control planes (all in VC).  i think they should leave the control scheme exactly like they did in VC for PC

Yes we know this, anyway about the controls issues. SA has a lot of added stuff, and most of these really make use of the PS2's Analog sticks. The dancing missions comes to mind along with the gym aspect so Rockstar are going to have to implement either better gamepad support or find some other way around it. I agree that I prefer using the mouse and keyboard to control Tommy/CJ but when driving, thats where great gamepad compatibility comes into it

ya man i know most of us know about the PC version, but the guy who made the topic obviously didnt which is why i posted the link (and he now changed the info)

 

and, ya i agree the control stick would be hot for flying.

[GTAGuy]

Something just occured to me that I haven't really thought of before. Something that auto-aim does that Mouselook can't do in GTA3 and VC for the PC. Auto-aim triggers an AI script on a ped, cop or storeowner. A ped will throw up his arms, a cop will chase you, a storeowner will give you money. None of this is possible just by aiming at someone with the mouse, which is quite a shame actually. Hopefully this issue will be resolved in SA PC...

[[email protected]]

Something just occured to me that I haven't really thought of before. Something that auto-aim does that Mouselook can't do in GTA3 and VC for the PC. Auto-aim triggers an AI script on a ped, cop or storeowner. A ped will throw up his arms, a cop will chase you, a storeowner will give you money. None of this is possible just by aiming at someone with the mouse, which is quite a shame actually. Hopefully this issue will be resolved in SA PC...

Once the crosshair stays on the head it triggers. This happened in Vice when you could rob stores.

[TempEcho]

Something just occured to me that I haven't really thought of before. Something that auto-aim does that Mouselook can't do in GTA3 and VC for the PC. Auto-aim triggers an AI script on a ped, cop or storeowner. A ped will throw up his arms, a cop will chase you, a storeowner will give you money. None of this is possible just by aiming at someone with the mouse, which is quite a shame actually. Hopefully this issue will be resolved in SA PC...

yeah , it works on store owners , but I don't see this as a disadvantage , I see this as an advantage Think about it ,

auto aiming: possibility of accidently getting chased by cops

manual: not being chased by cops accidently.

 

PC RULES!

[GTA3Freak-2001]

Something just occured to me that I haven't really thought of before. Something that auto-aim does that Mouselook can't do in GTA3 and VC for the PC. Auto-aim triggers an AI script on a ped, cop or storeowner. A ped will throw up his arms, a cop will chase you, a storeowner will give you money. None of this is possible just by aiming at someone with the mouse, which is quite a shame actually. Hopefully this issue will be resolved in SA PC...

Once the crosshair stays on the head it triggers. This happened in Vice when you could rob stores.

And there also was still the ability to auto-aim, it was some other key on the keyboard if I remember correctly but yes you could just aim at their head and it would trigger the auto-aim type thing.

[Cran.]

So with the infinty area, we can have Libery City, Myriad, Vice City and San Andreas in the one game! wow so much map! Can wait for the PC Verison

[[email protected]]

Don't forget about GTA:NY and GTA: Berlin.

[masser120]

Speaking of raytracing:

 

MAKE IT DIRECTX 9.0C SHADERS! It's a lot easier and more realistic (especially the water!) If you don't believe me, go and play FarCry on a DirectX9 card!

[-beeblebrox-]

 

The XBOX version in all likelihood will not be available until 1 year after the release of San Andreas, so around late October 2004.

You mean 2005 right

 

Not being picky, just thought you'd want to correct it

[JOJOBEAN]

well just for the record i just want GTA- SA on xbox i cant stand the ps2 anymore , with all these errors and crap.

[GTA3Freak-2001]

Speaking of raytracing:

 

MAKE IT DIRECTX 9.0C SHADERS! It's a lot easier and more realistic (especially the water!) If you don't believe me, go and play FarCry on a DirectX9 card!

This is GTA not Far Cry, I doubt Rockstar will do anything that drastic to the graphics. It's good to dream but doubtful, Vice City was lucky to get better textures let alone adding raytracing of some kind.

[Carbono]

Better Textures.

Projected Shadows

Dx8 Shaders(a lot of cards dont support very well dx9 shaders)

 

But guys, are you guys sure of "raytracing"? so far from what i know, ray tracing is very very very heavy?! or its some "variation" of raytracing?

[Opius]

'True' raytracing is EXTREMELY intensive and is not suited to games.

 

However, creating a second invisible viewpoint, with a wide FOV (think fisheye camera lens) at the origin of the reflective object, then applying what that viewpoint 'sees' as a reflection map is a very good way of faking realistic reflections.

[TempEcho]

But didny VC and SA just copy entire buildings , mirror them underground , and set the "object that should be reflective" to transparanty to fake mirrors and mirroring water etc.?