The thread that started it all

[killer.ip]

 

@killer.ip: You already know I'm going to say keep the gates closed at first.

Aw nuts, and there's me trying to be super stealthy and slip it by you. No worries man, sticking to the plan.

 

Just uploaded a new IPL for comSE that takes away the Heli on the pad there, link. Thats it's COL reference removed as well.

 

[Demarest]

I realize you guys are trying to help, but I'm telling you: I tried!

 

@killer.ip: I installed your mod there and voila! It was obvious to me when you took your pic that you didn't try to walk through the heli. It's still there. Like I said, I tried several things together, asked others, etc. No dice. Not conclusive, but:

[killer.ip]

Idjit that I am, had a mental image of where I thought it was, then went and ran straight past the spot without giving it a second glance.

 

Got it on the second bite though.

 

Edited January 26, 2004 by killer.ip

[MajorOutage]

I caught that update.

 

And it's still there. :\

Edited January 26, 2004 by [4D]Outback

[killer.ip]

 

The coll is still there for me. :-\

I'm just taking a guess here, but you didn't replace the comSE.col in your archive. Replacing comSE.col in /data/gta3maps/comse won't have any effect in-game.

 

I've added a readme with the info, hopefully that's just the problem.

 

[EDIT] Yeah, took that chance man, there's no fuel to feed the fire though if you know what I mean.

 

Hmm, still there, you sure you deleted the old file, replaced it with the new one?

Edited January 26, 2004 by killer.ip

[MajorOutage]

Aha, I see.

 

So can I safely delete the COL's from the map folders?

[PineCreek-Skidz]

The Heli COL is apart of the casino roof, so you would need to edit the casino COL to get rid of the Heli, keeping in mind that I havnt used Killer.ip's new files and dont know if it fixed the problem.

 

About the Ultra LOD's.

I should have all the ultra LOD's crossed out in the overview.IPL.

They are:

IslandLODcomSUB

IslandLODInd

IslandLODcomIND

IslandLODsubCOM

IslandLODsubIND

 

Ill need to take a look at how the Vice City engine works with the Island LOD's becouse they are slightly different than GTA3. I think it might just be an LOD distance thing becouse the LOD doesnt dissapear when I get into staunton.

 

[EDIT]

They are all set to 3000 in the gta3.ide

Edited January 26, 2004 by PineCreek-Skidz

[killer.ip]

 

Aha, I see.

 

So can I safely delete the COL's from the map folders?

 

Pretty much, tried it last weekend just larking about, didn't seem to have any effect. You might a well leave them in though, you never can tell.

 

Skidz got it right, just a simple bounding box on the landing pad, Delfi's COL-IO did the trick.

[MajorOutage]

Yay, it's gone now. Yet another great job, killer.ip.

[Hollower]

Ill need to take a look at how the Vice City engine works with the Island LOD's becouse they are slightly different than GTA3. I think it might just be an LOD distance thing becouse the LOD doesnt dissapear when I get into staunton.

 

Take a look at the parameter flag 256 recently discovered by Respawn in the following thread:

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=102833&st=20

Draw LOD across loading zones. Sounds like exactly what you're looking for!

[PineCreek-Skidz]

Im sitting here looking across at LOD staunton.

 

Im in Staunton and the LOD is still showing, I dont know how to fix this yet.

 

[EDIT]

 

didnt see Hollower's post, im taking a look.

Edited January 26, 2004 by PineCreek-Skidz

[killer.ip]

 

Yay, it's gone now.

No worries man, things were looking sketchy for a sec there, but it's nice when they come through.

 

Catch you later.

[MajorOutage]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think I've ever seen one of the "Ultra LODs" in either GTA3 or Vice City, so I don't think it would really make any difference of they were just removed.

 

Anyway, I'm still tweaking with the water. The map for where the water shows up is only 64x64, and this limitation is causing problems around Cochrane Dam and the tunnel entrance on Portland.

[PineCreek-Skidz]

Damn, I couldnt get it to work. The game doesnt recognise that the areas across the loading zone are the ones that should be shut off when you go across, and vise versa.

Anyone else wanna take a crack at it =)

 

[4D]Outback: yea, I talked about this befor. Is it possible that the water.dat file has some secrets about the sizes of the water squares?

If this is hardcoded we might be hooped.

Edited January 26, 2004 by PineCreek-Skidz

[MajorOutage]

 

[4D]Outback: yea, I talked about this befor. Is it possible that the water.dat file has some secrets about the sizes of the water squares?

If this is hardcoded we might be hooped.

The size of the squares wouldn't matter if the map resolution stays the same.

 

I'm kinda wondering how it worked in GTA3, since it obviously had no problems with the dam and such. I think it may have to do with the grid offset.

 

And what exactly does water.dat do, anyway? It looks likd coords, but those were handled by the map in waterpro.dat I thought.

 

Oh, and there are some inland water areas that should probally have a bottom added, mainly the ones on SSV where you can see through to the tunnel and behind the dam.

Edited January 26, 2004 by [4D]Outback

[Mark Pagliaro]

We need atleast 1 of each Helicopter.

 

I suggest:

Hunter - Military Base [after 100 hidden packages found]

Seasparrow - [haven't found a suitable location]

Sparrow - Airport Helipad

Maverick - Kenjis Casino

Police Maverick - Staunton Island Police Station Helipad

VCN Maverick [Change to Love Media Maverick] - Near Donald Loves Building

Skimmer - Portland Dock under Callahan Bridge/ Through Tunnel

- Staunton Docks facing Portland (Asukas condos)

Dodo (rcbaron) - Regular Dodo Spots

 

Of course they should be either locked or not parked until 3rd island is reached to keep the gtaIII storyline intact. IE player can't get to staunton until bridge is fixed and player can't get to ssv until lift is lowered etc.

 

Anyways I only have a few dff files left to do in the 2d fix but they are a but hard to do because they overlap in the game and they are in need of roofs.

[staunton]

 

I added alot of roofs too staunton visually but physically no cols have been made by me yet. (This is to incorporate the use of helicopters)

[MajorOutage]

With the Heli, Skimmer, and new dodo tuning, the boat boundaries are kinda pointless now, so here's the files to remove them.

 

No Boat Boundaries fix

 

It might be worth putting in a new set to keep people from trying to go around to the other side of Portland, but we can worry about that later.

 

PS. For those of you already working on new versions of these files, don't worry. I'll update this when new ones are released.

 

EDIT. I found a good spot to add a Helipad: Proposed site for Love Media helipad

 

Oh, and I've run into some invisible walls while flying around. There's one on each side of the Portland-Staunton bridge, and one that seems to extend off the side of the Columbian's Mansion on SSV.

Edited January 26, 2004 by [4D]Outback

[kipo]

Im quite sure the invisible walls are there in gta3 too, try it yourself with the dodo.

 

about the paths, 2/3 done (peds, second island), so Im quite positive it should be finished tomorrow.

 

to knux, once Im done with the second island, should I work on the peds for the first island?

[killer.ip]

Double post... oops.

Edited January 26, 2004 by killer.ip

[killer.ip]

 

For those of you already working on new versions of these files, don't worry. I'll update this when new ones are released.

Not a prob, I've been putting the coll's together for comNtop (the stadium was fun ), and there's one that Mark's going to get done to complete the set. Beyond that there's just the traffic light at the corner of the stadium that's a foot off the ground again, easy enough to fix though, and this area should be finished.

 

[EDIT] Okay, I'll hold off with the file update until there's been a decision on what to do. Thanks Mark.

Edited January 26, 2004 by killer.ip

[Mark Pagliaro]

Actually [4d]Outback I think we need the boat boundries (pipeline) as we shouldn't have access to flight until the 3rd Island. If Demarest is following the way GTAIII did this.

 

So it would work like this.

Portland access to Road vehicles only.

Staunton Island access to Road and Boats only.

Shoreside Vale access to All vehicles.

[Demarest]

Nomad 3 updated to include the originally intended Sparrow atop Kenji's Casino. This of course requires killer.ip's update.

 

@killer.ip: Good work. Not sure where I went wrong before, but...

 

@Outback: Whether you realize it or not, you HAVE seen the ultra LODs as seen here

 

Also, is there anyway that instead of removing the pipe barriers, could you add additional pieces to the north end to extend all the way to about 1900 on the Y axis? This would keep it in compliance with GTA3's standards as Mark's idea for vehicle metering is right on for GTA3's style.

 

@Skidz: Now that we know that the flashing happening before was due to the occlu and not the ZON, maybe we can take the ZON back to the way it was before where everything was loaded all the time?

 

@MarkPagliaro: Your post on suggested heli locations made me wonder if you were aware that Nomad already had helis parked

 

on top of Kenji's Casino	outside of Donald Love's
airport helipad	SSV police station
Head Radio station	Portland southern pier
	Helis were tried to be placed with relevance with the exception of the southern piers. That was placed to give southern Portlan heli representation as Nomad's purpose was to make exploration as realistic as possible while rebuilding the game. Once the code nears completion, the helis can be made to be unlocked along with SSV..
Phil's army surplus

The Love Media heli is a good idea. I think keeping it at Head Radio makes sense though since it already IS Love Media's. I had the regular Maverick at Donald's because if anybody in Liberty has a heli, he would. Later moving that to where Outback said as well as having another teleporter to Staunton police helipad would be a good idea. Edited January 26, 2004 by Demarest

[Mark Pagliaro]

I am/was aware of Nomads Helicopters just did not like the locations.

 

Now reading your topic makes sense but if I may put in my word.

 

Police Maverick - Staunton Island Police Station Helipad

Love Media Maverick - Head Radio [Love this idea now]

Maverick - Donald Love Building [Love this too]

Sparrow - Airport

Sea Sparrow - Kenji's Casino [he should have the chaingun not the airport]

Hunter - Phil's Army Surplus [100 hidden packages]

Dodo - Regular Locations

Skimmer - Portland Dock Under Callahan Bridge, Asuka Condo Docks, Airport Dock (End of runway)

 

Of course flight being restricted until 3rd island is unlocked.

 

Also about Law enforcement vehicles.

I think the police department should have only the police vehicles so could you move the FBI vehicles to the FBI Headquaters in Staunton Island.(Will give you location when I get home if you do not know where the fbi hq is,No special building it was just marked on the map in the ps2 booklet as an fbi building.)

 

VCPD [LCPD] Cheetah should go where you placed the polmav.

Of course these are only suggestions.

 

Also since we are incorporating heli's in the game some minor map modifications have been made Ie adding roofs to those buildings that did not have them. Would it be too much to add helipads to Donald Loves Building [4d]outback's location and Head Radio(the grass where you placed the vcnmav)? I know you are aiming for a most direct port as possible. This is why I asked.

 

sorry for all the edits my net keeps submitting before I finnish.

Edited January 26, 2004 by MarkPagliaro

[Luke]

Theres a little building on the top of the staunton police station that isnt solid, that would need solving first, would it not?

 

I think that Kenji should have a Maverick, since it is closer to the one that it already replaces.

 

Are all helis gona have two collisions, cos that makes things awkward?

[Guest]

Police station and Donald love roof sound good to me. Been using those things since back in the gta3 days.

And speaking of the police station, wtf happened to the entrance sign?

looks like its been flipped horizontally

 

I'm really looking forward to Kipo's ped paths

keep up the good work!

Edited January 26, 2004 by Guest

[Mark Pagliaro]

 

largopredator Posted on Jan 26 2004, 13:50

  Police station and Donald love roof sound good to me. Been using those things since back in the gta3 days.

And speaking of the police station, wtf happened to the entrance sign?

looks like its been flipped horizontally:wtf: 

 

 

I thought that was a result from my 2d fix but since I haven't released it yet (Only to killer.ip) it couldn't have been. Anyways this will be [already is] fixed in my upcomming 2d fix for staunton Island.

 

 

Smithers2 Posted on Jan 26 2004, 13:11

  Theres a little building on the top of the staunton police station that isnt solid, that would need solving first, would it not?

 

 

COl files are wip progress right now by killer.ip (I haven't started yet)

Also I was thinking of adding a door to that small building (could be used for a teleporter like the vcn building in vice)

 

sorry I must be half-asleep! With all these edits.

Edited January 26, 2004 by MarkPagliaro

[killer.ip]

As Mark was saying, the coll's are in progress at the mo, so we're gradually closing in on the Police station from both sides. It's taking a while because most of these have to built from scratch using the original model as a reference... and there's a few of them to say the least.

 

Mark's fixes have been/are looking good. There's been plenty of problems with alpha textures unsurprisingly and the number of roofs to be patched up equals the number of coll's needed to be made, so it'll be no mean feat (foot?) when he's finished up.

 

I'm only really helping with the coll's, but Staunton's going to be looking very much better when we're through with it.

Edited January 26, 2004 by killer.ip

[MajorOutage]

Actually [4d]Outback I think we need the boat boundries (pipeline) as we shouldn't have access to flight until the 3rd Island. If Demarest is following the way GTAIII did this.

 

So it would work like this.

Portland access to Road vehicles only.

Staunton Island access to Road and Boats only.

Shoreside Vale access to All vehicles.

Ah, good point. I didn't think of that.

 

Now would there be any way to remove the boundaries after SSV is opened up?

[Demarest]

First off, I want to thank everybody for the increased activity in the thread. I realize we're still having a few dozen conversations here, but it's helping us all it would appear. I'm going to be making some SCM upgrades based on these conversations, so keep it up so I can get the input I need.

 

@Mark: Having a helipad on top of Love's is okay by me. I'd chalk it up as being "necessary" due to the addition of the helis. I'll build teleporters into the next version so that map-makers and everybody can start experimenting. At that time, I'll also move Love's heli to the roof and make another Police Mav on the roof in Staunton. I'll also swap the Sparrow's because I agree that Kenji is more likely to have the gun than some randomly parked one. I'll add a Skimmer at the underpass, but that may interfere with the missions that spawn a boat there. May have to pluck it later. Either way, it too should be available only after SSV is unlocked. As for the Hunter being a reward at 100 packages at Phil's, I don't have a problem with that. I sort of disagree with tampering with the existing rewards scheduled, but since it is the last, it kind of fits. I'll leave it up to everybody. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, the vehicles and weapons used by law enforcement are hard coded. We may be able to work around this by replacing certain vehicles and weapons with duplicates of others, but that's something somebody will have to experiment with. I can work in a wanted level debugger into the SCM if somebody so desires. I disagree with have the Vice Cheetah at all. We'll already have the FBI Car. GTA3 did not have the benefit of a law enforcement sports car. We may still have to address the Vice Cheetah and possibly replace it with another Police car so that at 3 stars, you're not handed something you're not supposed to have.

 

@Smithers2: You may be thinking of the SSV Police station. In Staunton, the roof is solid, although there is a structure there that you can actually walk through. In the end, placing a Maverick on Kenji's roof may be appropriate. I only chose the helis I did to represent the variety the game actually offers. In the end, if we didn't have any Sparrows at all, it would okay by me. I would say cut it down to just Maverick and Hunter, but the media and police choppers add flavor. I'm not sure what you mean by 2 COLs unless you're talking about what used to be on Kenji's roof. If so, that is a unique example.

 

Head Radio heli/helipad: What do we do? Where I have the heli parked is already in the way. Anything nearby large enough to support a helipad is right where a useful shortcut is. Don't want to obstruct those. As for the roof, it is already cluttered as it is. The tower could be removed, but I think it should stay as it sort of acts as a landmark. Some of the ventilation hatches on top could possibly be removed, but it would still be tight and right where a package is. So I'm stumped as to where to put a helipad IF we do. If not, I still don't know where a good place to park the heli there would be. We have time to discuss that; I was just hoping to get feedback as I'm about to make a SCM upgrade.

 

Also, when I remapped the vehicles, I replaced the Moonbeam with the Sanchez. I didn't realize at the time that VC had a Moonbeam. So I'm thinking about leaving the Sanchez and Angel out of the mix altogether. Much like the helis, we only need to have them in there. We don't need the variety, esp since most people go for the PCJ anyways. If nothing else, we could just assign it as something peds drive, but not actually park them anywhere. Hard to say. Going from GTA3's engine to VC's engine means the IE Garage will now have to be written by me instead of being hard-coded. While this gives us flexibility, it also means that vehicle assignment should be decided before I get to that point.

Edited January 26, 2004 by Demarest

[MajorOutage]

I was thinking to put the Love Media chopper at the Love Media HQ, much like it's at the VCN HQ in VC. Maybe one of each is in order? The roof certainly is big enough.

 

The Sea Sparrow could go in the pool of the Cartel Mansion, just like it's in the pool at the Vercetti Mansion. Ofcourse, only unlock it after completing the missions there.

 

And are buyable assets going to be incorporated?