The thread that started it all

[PineCreek-Skidz]

We could easly enough use filefront of fileplanet for our files. We will not include the exe this time and make instructions on how to edit the one on your comp.

I didnt think it was such a good idea to add it anyway.

[MajorOutage]

I have plenty of webspace to host a compiled release on. Just give me a list of what you guys think should be included in it and I'll throw it together and put it up.

[xhispage]

lol just use the gamers alliance , or if u realy need it: i can host ur files too

 

Xanni

[Aztlan]

soo are you guys going to release an updated version

i think is about time because you need to move apart from the gtawo thing, all the sites that have the lc file being hosted, have the name gtawo, which will confuse other people

Edited January 23, 2004 by Aztlan

[killer.ip]

Good question. I think the last time this was asked was back in December, and it was decided that we needed to show more progress before the first release was to come about. That decision's not up to me, but I can begin to list what has been done in that time:

 

- Game coding up to Nomad v3

- Vehicle paths in Portland

- Startup, shutdown & pause map splash screens

- Updated particle.txd with new water and wake textures

- HUD & weapon icons

- Hidden packages model

- Airport crash correction

- General map fixes by Skidz

- Updated CULL file

- All 2D surfaces in Portland & Shoreside Vale fixed

- Collision files completed in Portland & Shoreside Vale

- Errant map objects in Liberty fixed

- Flickering scenery in Liberty fixed

- All 32bit textures converted to GTA3's native DXT format

- Original GTA3 radio conversion guide to correlate with the updated GXT

- Original GTA3 police radio conversion guide

- Mark's working on the 2D surfaces in Staunton, it's showing good progress but that would be best left for him to discuss

- Hi-Detail LOD models which could be included as an addon of just over a megabyte

 

The obvious things that are missing are most of the vehicle & ped paths plus any mission coding. The mod's come a long way from where WO left off, and lot's of files have been released which can probably be seen as being confusing to anyone wanting to install from scratch.

 

Might be an idea to start collating what we have before we move any further, it's going to have to happen at some point.

Edited January 23, 2004 by killer.ip

[Mark Pagliaro]

Although I stated earlier I'd ask my sister to host a file I still think it is really early yet to compile our months and a weeks work. I mean sure we have been working on it but it is still barely playable. Just my honest opinion.

[killer.ip]

Well, there are two landmark releases coming up. There's your Staunton fixes Mark (which are looking good), and I know Knux & crazydude have been working on vehicle transfer. Judging from screenshots this is progressing well too.

 

Beyond which it'll just be mission coding & paths left to do. I say 'just' but these are probably going to be the most time intensive parts of the mod. Hopefully though ghost_master2000 is still working on the idekiller tool which would allow us to transfer GTA3's paths over to LC, otherwise they'll need to be created from scratch.

 

It would probably be a good idea to hold off until the two landmarks are ready and released, but with the sheer mulitude of new files at our disposal I think it would be prudent to release no later. To anyone new to the mod it must be an uphill struggle coming to terms with what files are needed.

Edited January 23, 2004 by killer.ip

[Demarest]

As for WO being credited, it doesn't help that people like xhispage that don't know about Skidz and how the LC files were born are going around spreading that WO is so great for providing us with blah blah blah.

 

As for a release, I can see both sides of the coin. A while back, I had to reinstall LC and the amount of files I had to add was daunting. For somebody just now wanting to test it out, they can be discouraged about having to go through all that effort. I think a single file/download would help that tremendously. Keep in mind that our primary fuel is public interest and participation. We need to make it all as easy to swallow if we're going to stand a chance. Think about how many people might not download such a thing just because they're waiting for something like this? I say go for it. If we do, here's how I'd like to do it. Compile the DL. This will take time and effort. Secure reliable hosting. One site is all that's needed, but mirrors would be helpful. We can then request this thread be locked and I can go ahead and creat a new thread. The new thread's opening post can contain all kinds of info like a link to this thread, a link to the new DL location, a list of contributors thus far and some history to help clarify the LC/WO line (as if there really was one).

 

As for killer.ip's list of updates, there's a couple corrections. kipo made the SSV paths (quite well I might add). Also, I have not corrected the radio station textures to reflect the new station order (minor really). As far as Mark's Staunton fix and Knux's and crazydude's vehicles, those might be worth waiting for if they're going to be soon enough. Also, I think we need to agree (at least for now) about moving the map. For now, my vote is to keep it as is for the time being for the sake of simplicity. As for including the EXE, I myself would like to keep it in. However, I realize that that is against the EULA as is dispersing info on how to "fix" it. We could potentially avoid blame by directing people to WO's release and then make our first major conglomerate release to be meant to piggy-back off of "their" release.

 

@madbitch: It's recently been discovered in another thread that the problem I was having with waterwake was actually because of ViceTXD.

[Mark Pagliaro]

I'll try to say this without making promisses. My release shall be soon enough.

 

(Killer.ip has been beta testing and he pointed out a few corrections plus a set of dffs I have missed) There is also an issue caused by the fixed fire-escapes that has come up but killer.ip and I have comeup with an Idea on how to fix them. This will take some time as fire_escapes are modelled directly to buildings in most cases with staunton.

 

Has the radar and hud been updated? (other than the hardcoded stuff)

I thought I remembered seeing it. Anyways I just extracted the radar from GTA3 and imported it into gta:lc so it wouldn't bother me if it wasn't included.

 

I agree that we should wait for Knux and Crazydudes car conversion because it involves a hefty lot of files in the gta3.img plus car cols, handling, etc

Edited January 23, 2004 by MarkPagliaro

[killer.ip]

 

kipo made the SSV paths (quite well I might add).

Strangely enough I've never been able to get either kipo's single release or the double pack to generate traffic in Shoreside Vale. I'm just going by the downloads at Smither's page, but in any case I'm probably just missing something.

 

In the meantime while we're waiting for the files mentioned above it would be a good idea to start assembling the components of the initial release. That's a big responsibility so it may merit a little discussion in itself. Hosting & documentation would indeed be other aspects of the first distribution. Thanks for putting forward a sensible plan of action Dem.

 

Mark, you can find the updated HUD & weapon icons over at Smither's page at the link above. You're on the case with the 2D stuff & roofs, but if you need a hand with the collision files in Staunton just let me know, they'd probably take a day or two to produce.

 

[Guest]

What tools are you guys using for the paths and the water? Maybe I can help out a bit. That patheditor 1.5b I downloaded doesn't seem that hard, I just have to learn how to use it...

And might you have the Liberty/Vice overlay map for me? Obviously I can't work with the Vice map alone either in 1024x1024 or 2048x2048 format. (don't ask me )

 

I played with the water editor a bit and I managed to remove the water from the tunnel and junkjard by lowering the water with about 20-25 units. Except all the other water went along. But I guess you guys know all about that. So I'm trying to figure out how to do that. You can make 16 different areas, and right now there's 2: all the water, and that small lake at the top/back of the cochrane dam(+63,5 units) I just gotta find out how to make more areas.

 

Most likely you guys can probably do a better job than me on this, but I just like to (try and) help...lighten the load a bit, maybe speed up the development a little. Ah heck, we'll see where the road goes...you guys just focus on getting that updated version ready.

 

Oh, and btw, great job on the Hi-LOD pack. very nice...

 

(And see, Killer.IP has the path problems too! Though I can see the paths in the editor...)

Edited January 23, 2004 by Guest

[Demarest]

Thanks for putting forward a sensible plan of action Dem.

Just like you lot, I'm just doing my best to keep all of this as streamlined as what a single thread will allow us

 

As for the paths, have you tried getting it off my site? I remember once before, it didn't work for me. But it does now. Don't know what the difference would be

 

As Mark pointed out, the HUD was another thing that I meant to mention was wrong with the update list. I remember it was done, but it didn't match our weapons scheme. I haven't heard anything on an update since As for the radar, that's a good idea. I was just using Jay Bee's because it came with it. But that's not very authentic is it?

 

@largopredator: What do you mean by overlay? Are you referring to this pic?

[Guest]

that's the one! thanks Dem! I'm kinda getting the hang of this path making thingey, or...at least I think I do

[killer.ip]

I'm still striking a blank with the paths I'm afraid. I've opened up the file in the Path Editor and there are objects & nodes set for the two islands, no idea why they shouldn't be working in Shoreside Vale though. Looks as if kipo's set up ped paths there as well as paths for the vehicles, which is something we're lacking in Portland at the mo.

 

Might be an idea for someone who knows their way round this file to take a look before we go for the release. Also, would there be any simple way to increase traffic density in Portland?

[MajorOutage]

 

As for the radar, that's a good idea. I was just using Jay Bee's because it came with it. But that's not very authentic is it?

I for one found the original GTA3 radar map annoying as it was unreadable most of the time.

 

I have been using Gangboy's GPS mod in GTA3 for as long as I can remember, and I'll see what I can do to convert it for those who'd like it. At least it would be "slightly more authentic" than the pasty VC-style one we have now.

Edited January 23, 2004 by [4D]Outback

[MajorOutage]

I'm still striking a blank with the paths I'm afraid. I've opened up the file in the Path Editor and there are objects & nodes set for the two islands, no idea why they shouldn't be working in Shoreside Vale though. Looks as if kipo's set up ped paths there as well as paths for the vehicles, which is something we're lacking in Portland at the mo.

I'm starting to think that the SSV paths are off abit.

 

Right on the entrance road to the airport (the one the fire station is on), the traffic going in scrapes against the airport wall, and there's usually an outbound car caught at the fire station on the wrong side of the fence.

And there's a column of traffic near the helipad that goes right into the water.

I've even seen a Securicar drive across the tail on one of the planes.

[MajorOutage]

 

I played with the water editor a bit and I managed to remove the water from the tunnel and junkjard by lowering the water with about 20-25 units. Except all the other water went along.   But I guess you guys know all about that. So I'm trying to figure out how to do that. You can make 16 different areas, and right now there's 2: all the water, and that small lake at the top/back of the cochrane dam(+63,5 units) I just gotta find out how to make more areas.

I got a few questions about the water problem.

 

1. How does the game know where the water is? Is it modeled? Alpha map? Could an issue with these files be causing our problem?

 

2 . Does the problem exist on the upper side of Cochrane Dam?

 

If it does, then it should most likely be fixable, but then we need to figure out what needs to be fixed.

 

3. Would it be possible, if neccesary, to completely redo all the water?

Edited January 23, 2004 by [4D]Outback

[Luke]

The paths link on my site is a link to the one on Dems site, my paths are workin, i merged the two files myself, if i can find it all ill upload it.

 

EDIT: I got a desktop on order (should play games better than my 16mb graphics laptop ) and after that i will start updatin the site again cos im fallin behind a bit.

 

EDIT2: (Im on a roll) Im willin to put together a compilation of all the files on my site and any others ive missed off too, which is best for people, automatic, or manual? or both?

Edited January 23, 2004 by Smithers2

[spaceeinstein]

I don't know if anyone wants it but I made a stunt movie. Probably the first stunt movie in LC but I don't know. Here's the link

 

Click here to download

 

22.7 MB size

5 min 49 sec long

35 min to wait before you begin download

 

EDIT

Ah dammit. Wrong link. The right one is posted.

Edited January 24, 2004 by spaceeinstein

[killer.ip]

@Smithers2 - If you could find that working file of yours and upload it that would be fantastic. Well up for adding some life to Shoreside Vale.

 

On the subject of an automatic or manual install method, I don't think it's been decided yet. It would probably reduce the download size if we went with the manual option, but that would mean we're still playing piggyback on WO's 'release'. Swings & roundabouts really, yet to be discussed in detail.

 

@Outback - I think Skidz is the man with the info on how the water's generated, in the meantime any chance you could post a screenshot of Gangboy's radar for a comparison with the one we're using at the mo?

 

@spaceeinstein - Nice one, but the link's pointing to a Ducati mod.

 

 

[EDIT] Okay, the download for the Hi-Detail LOD's is now up, if you're interested you can grab the files here.

 

Just to clarify, the earlier packs I released contain fixed versions of the normal LOD models, and it's those models that will be included in future releases of GTA3:LC. If these files are included they will remain exclusively as an optional addon pack.

 

@spaceeinstein - Thanks for getting the link back up man, should be one of the first to see it at this rate.

Edited January 24, 2004 by killer.ip

[MajorOutage]

Im willin to put together a compilation of all the files on my site and any others ive missed off too, which is best for people, automatic, or manual? or both?

Manual as in no installer is fine, but the IMG files and stuff should be precompiled.

[kipo]

hi, sorry about the problem with the paths, but I think the problem lies in where you are putting the paths.ipl file, it should be in data/gta3maps, not in the default data folder. It is the only explanation i can find for problems like the one in the airport where cars are going through the wall, it happens because they are following the old vice city paths, which were not removed in knux' first release, in dem's release the old vice city paths are removed, so the person with that problem hasnt replaced the correct paths.ipl.

Also, I could've continued working in the paths, but I didnt want to interfere with knux' work as he was already working on the second island, he decided to wait for a solution in the whole "moving the city" debate, which is perfectly understandable, I can continue working on them, and have the paths in less than a week (Im having a lot of free time), but for that Im going to need somekind of aproval from knux, I really dont want to interfiere with his work.

Edited January 24, 2004 by kipo

[Mark Pagliaro]

Personally I think we should keep the city where it is. It will not interfere with many missions. I could care less if "gone fishing" is modified. However If the city is moved it would just be a simple offsetting to be done to each path. In which I am sure some one here can make a program to automatically offset them. Leaving the city where it is makes things so much easier.

 

I don't think we should go out of the way to get 1 mission in. Think about it we would have to change the following;

 

Everything co-ord related in the main.scm

Pedestrian/Car Paths

Radar,

 

This thread hasn't heard much from knux lately other than vehicles are near complete. So it'll be nice to hear from him. Personally I haven't used and updates in anything yet for GTA:LC other than the 2d fixes killer.ip and I have/are make/making.

 

I am looking forward to complete car/ped paths though. When this is done it will be just like playing a 100 % save game.

 

edit:

Just tried kipo's car.ped paths and it nice to have peds to shoot at.

Edited January 24, 2004 by MarkPagliaro

[killer.ip]

Way to go kipo, sorry about the worry I must have caused with you earlier... I'm just daft for not having experimented a little. Driving in traffic's come as a bit of a shock, as well as having to watch out for peds again. I agree with Mark in that after getting a taste just now, having the complete paths will feel like a 100% savegame.

 

Still a ways to go though, if Knux isn't too busy with his side of things maybe you guys could pool resources. There's still peds in Portland to do, as well as cars/peds in Staunton. I've not referred back to the paths.ipl but I noticed there wasn't any traffic directly around the airport either.

 

Anyways, nicely done, looking forward to the next installment.

[MajorOutage]

Okay, I fixed the paths. Thanks for the help, kipo.

 

Anyway, I for one am in favor of moving the city. I'd just hate for us to get near done and go "Darn, we should have moved it while we had the chance."

Plus, I don't think the mod would feel complete if we couldn't go everywhere on the island and the boats were missing a wake. Not that those are really that important, but it's still something that will be nagging at us if it's not fixed, ya know?

 

This would be the most opportune time, IMO, as we are preparing to complile the files once a few more fixes are made.

 

Edit.

 

And one more thing...how do I get rid of that pesky black frame in the main menu screens? I don't remember that being there before after I installed that other background...hmmmm...

Edited January 24, 2004 by [4D]Outback

[Luke]

Ok, ive been talkin a bit to Knux, as far as i know hes still waiting for a decision on the game boundaries and moving the city.

 

Me and someone else have been looking through the gta_vc.exe file and still cant find anything to do with the boundaries. Im not sure that it would cause leaks etc because i think that the boundaries are just that, simply boundaries for the player. It is still possible to have objects placed outside of the boundaries, which to me means that if we can find the coords for them, hopefully they can be moved

 

If anyone has rough coords for the boundaries (i saw them somewhere but i cant find them again) then that wouls help.

[Guest]

@outback - I have absolutely no idea what the water consists of. It doesn't show up in the editor, so it's not an object or modeled in any way as far as I can tell. Has anyone decoded the water.dat yet? I think that's where the solution is...we really need Skidz input on this.

Right now, the only water problems are in the junkyard and the tunnel. Because that part is in an area where in Vice City was only water, and both places are below sealevel, they partially flood. There is no way to lower that without lowering every bit of water in the city.(except that little lake at the top of Cochrane dam )

Although maybe these zone thingeys may have something to do with that. I haven't figured out what they are or how they work yet, so if anyone knows, please enlighten us.

 

As for the paths... OMG. this. kicks. ASS! excellent paths Kipo!

As for the other paths, I don't want to interfere with any of your work, but if you need paths, maybe I can help. I started on some paths for the Liberty Stadium region, and they seem to work! I still have to tweak them, the cars are still a bit dodgy, crashing into eachother and traffic lights as you an see, but I'm getting there! And consider I started yesterday afternoon, never before edited a path or anything of the sort...

 

[EDIT] I've done half of Staunton now. It's kinda primitive, and not all paths match, but that's mainly because the map isn't accurate everywhere. Also, I need to increase density. There are way too few cars driving around. Does density relate to the distance between nodes? In the area around the stadium the nodes are closer together, and there are more cars. At the park there is more distance between them, and fewer cars. I'll remake some and see what happens. And ofcourse they don't stop at the traffic lights. But that's something for a later date.

Edited January 24, 2004 by Guest

[kipo]

It's good to see more ppl helping with the paths, if you are really into this, let me give you 2 valuable advices when making paths, I had to learn them the hard way:

- Dont leave too much space between nodes, the traffic spawns in the nodes so if you leave too much space between them, you wont have enough traffic (this advice was from knux, and it was indeed helpful).

- Never put 2 green nodes together, weird things happen if you do this (actually, my release contains spots with green nodes together, but only for the ped paths, and I think only 2 or 3 spots have this problem, so I didnt think a re-release was necessary, but whoever is gonna release the final version of the paths, should correct this).

[Demarest]

 

Outback,Jan 23 2004, 14:54]I for one found the original GTA3 radar map annoying as it was unreadable most of the time.

Well then on your PC, you're more than welcome to use whatever radar you want. First mission is to exact a replica of GTA3. So the GTA3 radars will be in if I have anything to do about it.

 

Outback,Jan 23 2004, 15:02]Right on the entrance road to the airport (the one the fire station is on), the traffic going in scrapes against the airport wall, and there's usually an outbound car caught at the fire station on the wrong side of the fence.

And there's a column of traffic near the helipad that goes right into the water.

I've even seen a Securicar drive across the tail on one of the planes.

This just means you're still using a VERY old version of the paths.

 

Outback,Jan 23 2004, 15:27]1. How does the game know where the water is?

2 . Does the problem exist on the upper side of Cochrane Dam?

3. Would it be possible, if neccesary, to completely redo all the water?

1. Hardcoded.

2. No, because the hardcodedness is where the game is told that the water level is base throughout the city.

3. Yes, but totally unnecessary as it would mean totally redoing all islands to be raised/lowered the exact same amount. Too labor intensive.

 

It is still possible to have objects placed outside of the boundaries, which to me means that if we can find the coords for them, hopefully they can be moved 

 

If anyone has rough coords for the boundaries (i saw them somewhere but i cant find them again) then that wouls help.

That's exactly my source of hope too. As far as I know, the approx coords of GTA3 is -1900 to 1900 on both X and Y axes. VC is approx -2300 to 1600 on X and approx -1900 to 1900 on VC. Opius is the one with a more exact knowledge on the subject.

 

As for the issue of auto or manual install, obviously it would be ideal to have both if hosting allowed and somebody was willing to put both together. For the most part, an auto would simply be an arranged set of files and folders, maybe a script, etc. Not much difference between a manual if you think about it.

 

@Outback: We appreciate the input of course, but voting on things such as moving the city and the like should be reserved for those actually putting in on the mod.

 

@kipo & largopredator: Last I checked, Knux was working on the cars and leaving the rest of the paths to be done once a decision about moving the city was made. If either of you want to go ahead and start Staunton, consider this my encouragement If nothing else, Knux can look it over once you're finished and make any adjustments he may see fit if he's okay with that. In fact, since largopredator already says they're half done, maybe he should finish it and have kipo fine tune it if that's agreeable to both of you.

 

Since the city moving subject seems to be cloudy and somewhat divided, I'm hereby declaring that we WON'T move the city. It will make things MUCH easier to keep it where it is for the time being. If we decide later on that the city needs to be or is going to be moved, most files except the main.scm can be adjusted with simple tools. I know gm2k has already expressed a willingness to help if we need and I think I could probably sweet talk Steve into a few tools if necessary. And if we're streamlining the mod, then a new, moved release would be much easier to impliment. I just feel that areas of the mod may be getting pushed of because of that uncerntainty. Not to mention that right now, we should be focusing more on the first release. So until further notice/decision, we will NOT move the city.

[Mark Pagliaro]

Auto Install = Manual Install

 

If you right click on GTA:WO first Auto Install release (Skids Map, Knux Paths, Poor Main sm) assuming you have an extraction program. You can extract the file to a folder and manually install each of them. I do this when ever I need a fesh start.

 

Demarest if everything is defined in the main.scm why do you think it couldn't be edited automatically with a tool?

I have little programming knowledge because when I was in High School they only taught Visual Basic 6 and Turbo Pascal but it looks like it would be possible for cars and pickups.

 

Anyways I am willing to help edit the main.scm when or if the time comes to move the city.