! The New Heavy Metal Topic !

[jcab42]

 

and damn i am really out of the loop, i dont recognise half the bands on the last page. never been one for black metal though.

morbid angel and deicide was about as close as i got.

to me Deicide and Morbid Angel are clearly death metal, but the satanism/demonism is a trait that is more commonly found in black metal so I'll cut you some slack

Morbid Angel is Death metal but to me Glen Bentons vocals sound more black metal than death metal.

Well just because they're not your typical gutteral death vox. But yeah.

 

Bumpage.

I definatly see where you guys are coming from, the vocals... but black metal guys are usually screaming even more than that, and the rest of the band is totally death, to me it's the low tightnes of the typical morrisound recording, so Florida, so America. The Norwegians on the other hand were all outdoorsy and echoey, but rich natural echoes like recording in a cave or a church. And true black metal never uses muted chords

Yes but If I remember correctlly I listened to deicide - scars of the crucifix awhile back and 80% of the vocals were black metal style screams.

You might want to get a fresh listen to the title track. You can download it from this site:

http://www.themetallist.com/index.php?lang...oad§ion=mp3

But in searching for that album I found a thread that I think you're going to like:

Deicide: Scars of the Crucifix=Black Metal?

It's a long one but it pretty much covers all the bases. In a nutshell, some people believe it's the sound that deturmines the genre but the consensus seems to say philosophy is everything, so by that logic all Deicide and Morbid Angel would be Black Metal. But don't get me started on logic and philosphy

[President Paul]

and damn i am really out of the loop, i dont recognise half the bands on the last page. never been one for black metal though.

morbid angel and deicide was about as close as i got.

to me Deicide and Morbid Angel are clearly death metal, but the satanism/demonism is a trait that is more commonly found in black metal so I'll cut you some slack

Morbid Angel is Death metal but to me Glen Bentons vocals sound more black metal than death metal.

Well just because they're not your typical gutteral death vox. But yeah.

 

Bumpage.

I definatly see where you guys are coming from, the vocals... but black metal guys are usually screaming even more than that, and the rest of the band is totally death, to me it's the low tightnes of the typical morrisound recording, so Florida, so America. The Norwegians on the other hand were all outdoorsy and echoey, but rich natural echoes like recording in a cave or a church. And true black metal never uses muted chords

Yes but If I remember correctlly I listened to deicide - scars of the crucifix awhile back and 80% of the vocals were black metal style screams.

You might want to get a fresh listen to the title track. You can download it from this site:

http://www.themetallist.com/index.php?lang...oad§ion=mp3

But in searching for that album I found a thread that I think you're going to like:

Deicide: Scars of the Crucifix=Black Metal?

It's a long one but it pretty much covers all the bases. In a nutshell, some people believe it's the sound that deturmines the genre but the consensus seems to say philosophy is everything, so by that logic all Deicide and Morbid Angel would be Black Metal. But don't get me started on logic and philosphy

Okay man Im convinced Deicide is death metal.

[jcab42]

 

and damn i am really out of the loop, i dont recognise half the bands on the last page. never been one for black metal though.

morbid angel and deicide was about as close as i got.

to me Deicide and Morbid Angel are clearly death metal, but the satanism/demonism is a trait that is more commonly found in black metal so I'll cut you some slack

Morbid Angel is Death metal but to me Glen Bentons vocals sound more black metal than death metal.

Well just because they're not your typical gutteral death vox. But yeah.

 

Bumpage.

I definatly see where you guys are coming from, the vocals... but black metal guys are usually screaming even more than that, and the rest of the band is totally death, to me it's the low tightnes of the typical morrisound recording, so Florida, so America. The Norwegians on the other hand were all outdoorsy and echoey, but rich natural echoes like recording in a cave or a church. And true black metal never uses muted chords

Yes but If I remember correctlly I listened to deicide - scars of the crucifix awhile back and 80% of the vocals were black metal style screams.

You might want to get a fresh listen to the title track. You can download it from this site:

http://www.themetallist.com/index.php?lang...oad§ion=mp3

But in searching for that album I found a thread that I think you're going to like:

Deicide: Scars of the Crucifix=Black Metal?

It's a long one but it pretty much covers all the bases. In a nutshell, some people believe it's the sound that deturmines the genre but the consensus seems to say philosophy is everything, so by that logic all Deicide and Morbid Angel would be Black Metal. But don't get me started on logic and philosphy

Okay man Im convinced Deicide is death metal.

damn you're quick, I was just about to edit that post , actually, I really think the idea has merit. Deicide and Morbid Angel both started in that time (late 80's) when the terms death metal and black metal didn't mean anything. Neither band fits neatly in either genre so surely the real answer is they are whatever you want them to be. That's pretty much why I started this in the first place and I'm glad you were sticking to your guns... Is it really good to do these long quote things?

[President Paul]

and damn i am really out of the loop, i dont recognise half the bands on the last page. never been one for black metal though.

morbid angel and deicide was about as close as i got.

to me Deicide and Morbid Angel are clearly death metal, but the satanism/demonism is a trait that is more commonly found in black metal so I'll cut you some slack

Morbid Angel is Death metal but to me Glen Bentons vocals sound more black metal than death metal.

Well just because they're not your typical gutteral death vox. But yeah.

 

Bumpage.

I definatly see where you guys are coming from, the vocals... but black metal guys are usually screaming even more than that, and the rest of the band is totally death, to me it's the low tightnes of the typical morrisound recording, so Florida, so America. The Norwegians on the other hand were all outdoorsy and echoey, but rich natural echoes like recording in a cave or a church. And true black metal never uses muted chords

Yes but If I remember correctlly I listened to deicide - scars of the crucifix awhile back and 80% of the vocals were black metal style screams.

You might want to get a fresh listen to the title track. You can download it from this site:

http://www.themetallist.com/index.php?lang...oad§ion=mp3

But in searching for that album I found a thread that I think you're going to like:

Deicide: Scars of the Crucifix=Black Metal?

It's a long one but it pretty much covers all the bases. In a nutshell, some people believe it's the sound that deturmines the genre but the consensus seems to say philosophy is everything, so by that logic all Deicide and Morbid Angel would be Black Metal. But don't get me started on logic and philosphy

Okay man Im convinced Deicide is death metal.

damn you're quick, I was just about to edit that post , actually, I really think the idea has merit. Deicide and Morbid Angel both started in that time (late 80's) when the terms death metal and black metal didn't mean anything. Neither band fits neatly in either genre so surely the real answer is they are whatever you want them to be. That's pretty much why I started this in the first place and I'm glad you were sticking to your guns... Is it really good to do these long quote things?

Thanks man. And yes this is officially the first metal quote train.

[Moonshield]

and damn i am really out of the loop, i dont recognise half the bands on the last page. never been one for black metal though.

morbid angel and deicide was about as close as i got.

to me Deicide and Morbid Angel are clearly death metal, but the satanism/demonism is a trait that is more commonly found in black metal so I'll cut you some slack

Morbid Angel is Death metal but to me Glen Bentons vocals sound more black metal than death metal.

Well just because they're not your typical gutteral death vox. But yeah.

 

Bumpage.

I definatly see where you guys are coming from, the vocals... but black metal guys are usually screaming even more than that, and the rest of the band is totally death, to me it's the low tightnes of the typical morrisound recording, so Florida, so America. The Norwegians on the other hand were all outdoorsy and echoey, but rich natural echoes like recording in a cave or a church. And true black metal never uses muted chords

Yes but If I remember correctlly I listened to deicide - scars of the crucifix awhile back and 80% of the vocals were black metal style screams.

You might want to get a fresh listen to the title track. You can download it from this site:

http://www.themetallist.com/index.php?lang...oad§ion=mp3

But in searching for that album I found a thread that I think you're going to like:

Deicide: Scars of the Crucifix=Black Metal?

It's a long one but it pretty much covers all the bases. In a nutshell, some people believe it's the sound that deturmines the genre but the consensus seems to say philosophy is everything, so by that logic all Deicide and Morbid Angel would be Black Metal. But don't get me started on logic and philosphy

Okay man Im convinced Deicide is death metal.

damn you're quick, I was just about to edit that post , actually, I really think the idea has merit. Deicide and Morbid Angel both started in that time (late 80's) when the terms death metal and black metal didn't mean anything. Neither band fits neatly in either genre so surely the real answer is they are whatever you want them to be. That's pretty much why I started this in the first place and I'm glad you were sticking to your guns... Is it really good to do these long quote things?

Thanks man. And yes this is officially the first metal quote train.

That's because we rock ass. I had to do a project for doc. class where I had to create a piece of art, and I wrote a song. Expect a link soon.

[President Paul]

 

and damn i am really out of the loop, i dont recognise half the bands on the last page. never been one for black metal though.

morbid angel and deicide was about as close as i got.

to me Deicide and Morbid Angel are clearly death metal, but the satanism/demonism is a trait that is more commonly found in black metal so I'll cut you some slack

Morbid Angel is Death metal but to me Glen Bentons vocals sound more black metal than death metal.

Well just because they're not your typical gutteral death vox. But yeah.

 

Bumpage.

I definatly see where you guys are coming from, the vocals... but black metal guys are usually screaming even more than that, and the rest of the band is totally death, to me it's the low tightnes of the typical morrisound recording, so Florida, so America. The Norwegians on the other hand were all outdoorsy and echoey, but rich natural echoes like recording in a cave or a church. And true black metal never uses muted chords

Yes but If I remember correctlly I listened to deicide - scars of the crucifix awhile back and 80% of the vocals were black metal style screams.

You might want to get a fresh listen to the title track. You can download it from this site:

http://www.themetallist.com/index.php?lang...oad§ion=mp3

But in searching for that album I found a thread that I think you're going to like:

Deicide: Scars of the Crucifix=Black Metal?

It's a long one but it pretty much covers all the bases. In a nutshell, some people believe it's the sound that deturmines the genre but the consensus seems to say philosophy is everything, so by that logic all Deicide and Morbid Angel would be Black Metal. But don't get me started on logic and philosphy

Okay man Im convinced Deicide is death metal.

damn you're quick, I was just about to edit that post , actually, I really think the idea has merit. Deicide and Morbid Angel both started in that time (late 80's) when the terms death metal and black metal didn't mean anything. Neither band fits neatly in either genre so surely the real answer is they are whatever you want them to be. That's pretty much why I started this in the first place and I'm glad you were sticking to your guns... Is it really good to do these long quote things?

Thanks man. And yes this is officially the first metal quote train.

That's because we rock ass. I had to do a project for doc. class where I had to create a piece of art, and I wrote a song. Expect a link soon.

Me and some of my friends today wrote a song about my math teacher. The working title is "Shes got a fine ass but she bitches at me for not paying attention in class" its gonna be old school hardcore mixed with mondern death metal and progressive acoustic elements in it.

[Moonshield]

Everybody go here: http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?act=ST&f=32&t=164144

[Funkdoc]

wow,sounds really nice!

what about vocals? are you going to do another song with vocals?maybe with moonshield on the mic?

[Moonshield]

Well, vocals probably would have ruined the song for its purpose, but my actual band will probably make it into a song. And yes, I'm the singer.

[Funkdoc]

mh what kind of style? like death growls or clean vocals or something else?

[Sharkey]

well glad i had something to add that was debated.

 

i wasnt saying that those bands were black metal though,

just to clear the air.

i just meant they were as close as i listen too bc of their religious beliefs,

which i thought was the main difference between black and death.

 

so whats the difference other than their religious beliefs?

 

so theres no american black metal bands?

are the vocals more high pitched like cradle of filth?

and black metal bands dont use the muted power chords?

whats this about echo effects ?

 

i guess theres more difference than i thought.

im just a straight up old school death metalhead.

 

 

[President Paul]

well glad i had something to add that was debated.

 

i wasnt saying that those bands were black metal though,

just to clear the air.

i just meant they were as close as i listen too bc of their religious beliefs,

which i thought was the main difference between black and death.

 

so whats the difference other than their religious beliefs?

 

so theres no american black metal bands?

are the vocals more high pitched like cradle of filth?

and black metal bands dont use the muted power chords?

whats this about echo effects ?

 

i guess theres more difference than i thought.

im just a straight up old school death metalhead.

 

 

Check out Goatwhore there awesome american black metal.

[Bolverk]

Check this out for USBM.

 

U.S.B.M.

 

 

 

[jcab42]

Cheers for the link Bolverk. I've actually listened to some of those bands not knowing they're american, like December Wolves. Goatwhore is one of my favorite bands, I've seen them here in New Orleans (their home and mine).

 

 

well glad i had something to add that was debated. 

 

i wasnt saying that those bands were black metal though,

just to clear the air.

i just meant they were as close as i listen too bc of their religious beliefs,

which i thought was the main difference between black and death.

 

so whats the difference other than their religious beliefs?

 

so theres no american black metal bands?

are the vocals more high pitched like cradle of filth?

and black metal bands dont use the muted power chords?

whats this about echo effects ?

 

i guess theres more difference than i thought.

im just a straight up old school death metalhead. 

 

 

As I alluded to there's a few different definitions of black metal. Most people at least agree that satanism is a requirement. Personally, I think black metal is deturmined by the sound, often referred to as second wave (late 80's, early 90's) like Immortal, Emperor, Mayhem, Enslaved, Dark Throne, etc. All those bands are from Norway. So to fit this definition of black metal you don't have to be from Norway, but you do have to sound like those bands. Here are the rules as I see 'em. Keep in mind you can break some rules, just don't go crazy:

1. corpse paint

2. ultra distorted guitars, no muted chords, high tone, constant 16th notes

3. 60 to 100% blast beats

4. distorted screaming (no singing)

5. ambient sound (concert hall, church, cave, etc)

6. evaporated bass as if recorded outside

7. no keyboards except maybe a hint of organ

 

Dani Filth (vocalist COF) is way too gay to be a true black metal guy IMO, and his screaming isn't distorted enough, but he's definatly well within the ballpark. That band is so orchestrated and keyboardy, I guess I would call them melodic black metal.

[President Paul]

Cheers for the link Bolverk. I've actually listened to some of those bands not knowing they're american, like December Wolves. Goatwhore is one of my favorite bands, I've seen them here in New Orleans (their home and mine).

 

 

well glad i had something to add that was debated. 

 

i wasnt saying that those bands were black metal though,

just to clear the air.

i just meant they were as close as i listen too bc of their religious beliefs,

which i thought was the main difference between black and death.

 

so whats the difference other than their religious beliefs?

 

so theres no american black metal bands?

are the vocals more high pitched like cradle of filth?

and black metal bands dont use the muted power chords?

whats this about echo effects ?

 

i guess theres more difference than i thought.

im just a straight up old school death metalhead. 

 

 

As I alluded to there's a few different definitions of black metal. Most people at least agree that satanism is a requirement. Personally, I think black metal is deturmined by the sound, often referred to as second wave (late 80's, early 90's) like Immortal, Emperor, Mayhem, Enslaved, Dark Throne, etc. All those bands are from Norway. So to fit this definition of black metal you don't have to be from Norway, but you do have to sound like those bands. Here are the rules as I see 'em. Keep in mind you can break some rules, just don't go crazy:

1. corpse paint

2. ultra distorted guitars, no muted chords, high tone, constant 16th notes

3. 60 to 100% blast beats

4. distorted screaming (no singing)

5. ambient sound (concert hall, church, cave, etc)

6. evaporated bass as if recorded outside

7. no keyboards except maybe a hint of organ

 

Dani Filth (vocalist COF) is way too gay to be a true black metal guy IMO, and his screaming isn't distorted enough, but he's definatly well within the ballpark. That band is so orchestrated and keyboardy, I guess I would call them melodic black metal.

My god jcab you should make a dummies book on how to make a black metal band.

[jcab42]

Thanks Prez, but of course that was all based on my opinion. I was thinking that we should have a vote to see if we can agree on a common definition of black metal:

 

A) all satanic metal is black metal. Even the lamest Bathory counts.

 

B) you have to be at least as heavy as Morbid Angel to be considered BM. Satanism is required.

 

C) you have to sound like second wave Norwegian Black Metal (NBM, see previous post) and satanism is required.

 

D) you have to sound like second wave NBM (see previous post) but satanism is not required. Certain viking metal like Borknagar counts.

 

Obviously I'd vote for choice C, but if the consensus among us forum metalheads turns out to be something different then I will be happy to use that definition from now on. Vote please.

[Moonshield]

I'd say D. See, I really don't think a BM band HAS to be satanic to be BM. Look at bands like Ulver. They're early work is certainly black metal, and their ideology isn't satanic with albums like 'The Madrigal Of The Night: Eight Hymnes To The Wolf In Man' which is more about the struggle of man with himself. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Immortal was always pro-Nordic, and not very satanic or anti-christian. I also thing there're different kinds of BM. True BM like Immortal is like the BM you're describing. Then you have melodic BM like Emperor and Ulver, and more recently like Naglfar, which takes true BM and adds more keys as an extra layer and more melodic guitarwork. Then there's ambient BM, which is pretty much like true, but it's not as intense, like Moonblood.

[President Paul]

I agree with moonshield on the fact that you dont have to be satanic to be black metal. I think thats a common misconception because most of the mainstream black metal bands for example lets say Gorgoroth they perpetuate that sort of lifestyle "Woo look at us were bad we hate christians and we burn down churches."

[jcab42]

Nice, I never realized that about Immortal. Great point Moonsheild. That's got to be the best example of a band that fits BM in every way except satanism.

 

As for Emporer, you need to get their first album, the split CD with Enslaved "Hordane's Land" (1993) and then you'll see that they were as true as anyone before they turned to the dark side (melodic/orchestrated). Great shiit.

 

I shoulda known you guys only care about the sound anyway. I can definatly go along with that.

[Uno Carb]

Speaking of death metal, I just picked up TheBlackDahliaMurder, Unhallowed, [2003]. I'm starting to get bigger on death metal. This album, is just wow. It amazing in every way possible. Seriously.

[ZeroBomb]

It's all about In Flames.

 

Reroute to Remain, c'mon.

 

 

[President Paul]

It's all about In Flames.

 

Reroute to Remain, c'mon.

Rtr is alright. If you want there best go for The Jester Race.

[Uno Carb]

 

It's all about In Flames.

 

Reroute to Remain, c'mon.

Rtr is alright. If you want there best go for The Jester Race.

Naw bro, go get Whoracle. That album is amazing. Jester Race is f*cking awesome too.

Edited December 8, 2004 by Uno Carb

[Moonshield]

Yeah, same with Lunar Strain.

 

But my favorite Gothenburg album of all time has to be Dark Tranquillity - Skydancer. Amazing.

[President Paul]

My favourite gothenburg album is Jester Race straight up.

[ZeroBomb]

What's your favorite song in the Jester Race?

 

For that matter, what IS your favorite song from In Flames? I haven't heard The Jester Race yet, so mine would have to be In Flames - Rereoute to Remain

 

 

[President Paul]

My favourite song of off Jester Race would be Moonshield just the acoustics in it and then the heaviness is awesome.

[ToyMachine]

For that matter, what IS your favorite song from In Flames?

I like Moonshield and Pinball Map.

[Uno Carb]

 

For that matter, what IS your favorite song from In Flames?

The Jester Race/Black-Ash Inheritence

-Moonshield

-The Jester's Dance (AMAZING)

-Dead Eternity

-The Jester Race (AMAZING)

-Wayfaerer

-Gyroscope (AMAZING)

-Acoustic Medley

 

WHORACLE

-Jotun (AMAZING)

-Food For The Gods

-Gyroscope (AMAZING)

-Dialogue With The Stars (AMAZING)

-Jester Script Transfigured

-Morphing Into Primal (AMAZING)

-Episode 666

-Whoracle (AMAZING)

-Clad In Shadows '99 (Special Song on DLux Ed) (AMAZING)

 

Colony

-Embody The Invisible (AMAZING)

-Ordinary Story

-Scorn

-Colony

-Zombie Inc.

-Coerced Coexistance

-Resin (AMAZING)

-Behind Space '99 (AMAZING)

-Insipid 2000 (AMAZING)

-The New World

 

Clayman

-Bullet Ride

-Pinball Map (AMAZING)

-Only For The Weak

-...As The Future Repeats Today

-Square Nothing

-Clay Man

-Satellites and Astronauts

-Brush The Dust Away

-Swim (AMAZING)

-Suburban Me (AMAZING)

-Another Day In Quicksand

 

Reroute to Remain

-Reroute To Remain

-System

-Drifter (AMAZING)

-Trigger (AMAZING)

-Cloud Connected (AMAZING)

-Transparent

-Dawn Of A New Day (AMAZING)

-Egonomic (AMAZING)

-Minus

-Dismiss The Cynics (AMAZING)

-Dark Signs

-Metaphor (AMAZING)

-Black & White

 

Soundtrack To Your Escape

-F®iend (AMAZING)

-The Quiet Place (AMAZING)

-Dead Alone (AMAZING)

-Touch Of Red

-Like You Better Dead (AMAZING)

-My Sweet Shadow (AMAZING)

-Evil In A Closet (AMAZING)

-In Search For I (AMAZING)

-Borders And Shading (AMAZING)

-Superhero Of The Computer Rage (AMAZING)

-Dial 595-Escape (AMAZING)

-Bottled (AMAZING)

[Funkdoc]

Mine would be Only For The Weak,Swim,Square Nothing,Trigger,Cloud Connected.

In Flames riffs are simply amazing,I love it!