[SA] Myriad Islands

[Decay]

I love the look of the cave illy.

[JasonB]

Bumping the old topic would definately be a bad idea, most of it was people posting samples of trains and partially made tracks, with no planning whatsoever going into anything. And monorail is probably a no now, but it mkaes little difference, except to the tracks.

I'll make a new train topic later today.

[JasonB]

This topic is about the planning, development, review and public discussion of the Myriad Islands train. The train is confirmed to be a part of Myriad Islands and it is likely going to be a standard trainline which goes under, on and above the surface of the islands.

 

I urge everyone who posts in here to keep it on-topic, spam and flame free. I may not have any sort of mod-powers, but you can bet that if I did I wouldn't hesitate to delete any irrelevant post. Keep it clean, people. Actually scratch that, I have mod-powers now, but hopefully the topic will stay clean and productive so I wont need to use them.

 

At present the train line is being planned by Cerbera and I, with input from the higher-ups of Myriad, and the train line will be built on the northern islands before they are released for the SA engine.

 

Current Stage of Development: Planning/Review

Curerently, the train track plans are nearing completion, with praise from Respawn and illspirit, the plans will be finalised, station positions can be planned and then the tracks can be modelled.

You can view the most recent track plans here:

http://projectcerbera.com/gtasa/myriad/railway/idea-06.jpg

 

Information below is outdated and inaccurate now. Thanks

 

At the moment, the train is still in developmental stages. Overview of the islands topography and development of the land - both current and planned.

 

Illcom:

Illcom will absolutely not accomadate a level with surface track, achieiving an overhead track would be hard because of the curvy design of the roads which makes it difficult to follow the road, and crossing across lots is likely out of the question, the train needs to access central illcom, and that is where a lot of finished development is concentrated, and the nature of the development there makes over-head train access next to impossible. An underground track will likely be needed for illcom.

The idea of an offshore track has been brought up again by Cerbera, this time it is a far more detailed idea than when it was previously brought up.

 

Illsub:

Doesn't need train access, it is primarily a mansion island, and the amount of people arriving/leaving there would be minimal.

 

Northern Islands:

Since lot claiming and construction hasn't begun on these islands (with the exception of the soccer stadium reservation), planning for this area is a lot easier. These islands will most likely be a combination of surface and overhead rail. Surface rail has to keep lot interference (i.e. making lots unusable or difficult to use) and keep road interference as low as possible. The track also has to avoid sudden steep hills (although the amount of incline for the track may exceed that of a real track, this is acceptable) while still getting to the majority of the island.

 

Necrosis:

Unknown, I have little knowledge about this island and if the train is to go through Necrosis planning and modelling will probably be left to Respawn.

 

My Island (unnamed):

Obviously I will plan and model everything for this personally, but it's position in Myriad is still unconfirmed, so this creates a temporary obstacle.

 

A map (or maps) will be drawn up by Cerbera and I and sent to the higher-ups for review before being posted to the public for your review. Then the real fun starts.

 

I hope I havn't left anything out from the planning section. New sections such as review and development will be added when necessary.

 

I know I didn't update this post with comprehensive info, but reading the topic is even better.

[Knife]

bigun - don't worry, R* are not going to stop us from modding. Go Myriad!

 

San Andreas 2.0

F*ck.

 

See here and here and here for more info.

 

Just something to be aware of. It won't change the direction of the conversion, but it is something that we're going to need to make clear to new users.

I think, R* have changed only exe-file. Therefore we can upload SA MI installer with old exe-version (1.0).

We can't upload the .exe file

[JasonB]

bigun - don't worry, R* are not going to stop us from modding. Go Myriad!

 

San Andreas 2.0

F*ck.

 

See here and here and here for more info.

 

Just something to be aware of. It won't change the direction of the conversion, but it is something that we're going to need to make clear to new users.

I think, R* have changed only exe-file. Therefore we can upload SA MI installer with old exe-version (1.0).

We can't upload the .exe file

Knife is right, distrubtion and/or editing the EXE violates the games EULA. And R* wouldn't exactly appreciate us doing that.

[Mark]

 

Cool...btw how many types of train are available...3? Tram, Normal train and brown streak yeah? - GTAuron

 

[JasonB]

Yeah, in SA there were 3 types of trains that ran on the specified train paths. It is likely that we wont need the tram at all, and I'm not sure if the fact that you can't get in it is hardcoded or not, because we are probably only having one huge track for all of Myriad.

Edit: This should also be added to the Myriad Directory.

[AleXXX]

bigun - don't worry, R* are not going to stop us from modding. Go Myriad!

 

San Andreas 2.0

F*ck.

 

See here and here and here for more info.

 

Just something to be aware of. It won't change the direction of the conversion, but it is something that we're going to need to make clear to new users.

I think, R* have changed only exe-file. Therefore we can upload SA MI installer with old exe-version (1.0).

We can't upload the .exe file

Knife is right, distrubtion and/or editing the EXE violates the games EULA. And R* wouldn't exactly appreciate us doing that.

Officially MODDING too is forbidden. It means change of the original files of game, that is infringement of the copyright!

I dont see other way.

[Mark]

 

Nah, R* is fine with us modding, just the .exe is a big no-no. - GTAuron

 

[BenMillard]

Basically, what GTAuron said.

 

(RTFM)

[AleXXX]

Illcom...

This map of the underground stations (yellow colour - underground stations). I think, it'll approach...

Underground map...

 

 

[steve-m]

My Island (unnamed):

Obviously I will plan and model everything for this personally, but it's position in Myriad is still unconfirmed, so this creates a temporary obstacle.

ATM it seems we'll move the map to the NW corner, so your island will be in the place you originally wanted it to be (east of illcom). Quite a difficult decision...

 

 

Edit: This should also be added to the Myriad Directory.

Done.

[AleXXX]

My Island (unnamed):

Obviously I will plan and model everything for this personally, but it's position in Myriad is still unconfirmed, so this creates a temporary obstacle.

ATM it seems we'll move the map to the NW corner, so your island will be in the place you originally wanted it to be (east of illcom). Quite a difficult decision...

 

 

Edit: This should also be added to the Myriad Directory.

Done.

Also island can be arranged in the south of the illcom - it is not necessary of any movings.

[Knife]

Dramatic train missions!

 

 

Knife hides

[Knife]

Do .exe hooks work with v2?

[BenMillard]

This isn't a topic about GTASA 2.0, it is discussed in other threads.

Edited September 30, 2005 by Cerbera

[Knife]

But if v2 may effect myriad...

 

 

Anyway, most people allready own San An who wan't to so as long as we can keep modding the current version we are ok

[AleXXX]

Umm... I can say precisely - in Russia everywhere v 1.0.

Likely, version 2.0 only in Australia.

[Knife]

Well all SA's in production will be v2.0 I guess.

[BenMillard]

I've added JasonB to MSN, which is a start.

 

 

First Stages

The latest render was linked to me my illspirit a day or two ago. Since the islands are moving, this render just gives a loose indication of how much of the environment is going to be taken by the current MI islands. Getting a top-down render of Necrosis at this same scale would be very useful for the planning. Will the islands take long to move in the modelling programs so we can get the render we will actually work from?

 

To begin some rough preliminary planning we will need some renders at about 3,000 x 3,000 or 6,000 x 6,000 pixels for good printing:-

• The textured landscape so we can see geographic details.
• A heightmap or contour model so we can see actual height changes from top-down view.
• A wireframe of the landscape for drawing on.
• If possible, all the buildings on illCOM should be shown.

That's the render wishlist, from my perspective anyway.

 

I have created railway systems in Uphold the Law (GTA1), Pacific City (GTA1) and a subway system for MultiSlayer (GTA2). These cube-based 2D games are a very different environment to the triangle-based 3D of MI. The basic principles of route planning, railway station positions and minimising interfeerence with exists buildings are pretty much the same.

 

 

Bridges

In order for the railway to be realistic, it must allow big ships to get under or through the bridges. MI might not actually have any big ships as vehicles but it must be a possibility. It'll look silly to have the docks on illcom and Necrosis blocked from shipping by the railway. Using mission script to coordinate lift bridges, ramp bridges and/or swing bridges would be one solution. If the train was approaching, the moving part would stay closed. If no train was anywhere near, then it would open at timed intervals like the GTA3 lift bridge did.

 

For the bridge between Necrosis and illCOM it may be possible to just have extremely long, shallow slopes. The most realistic type of moving railway bridge would be something like Ramsey swing bridge in the Isle of Man. Swing bridges rotate instead of rise, which is why they are used for moving heavy railway bridge sections.

 

There will probably need to be some slopes in order to accomodate the difference in height between the South islands and the North islands. Railways do have slopes and I agree with JasonB that we can get away with steeper slopes than reality. We must avoid the stupidly steep slopes and sharp turns of GTA3, imho.

 

 

illCOM

1. It might be possible for the railway to be on a flyover which ran above lots, with one or more above-ground stations a bit like in Portland of GTA3. This relies on there being a route of low buildings which could be traversed without any stupidly sharp corners. From train journeys around the UK, particularly to Southampton, I know that trains do relatively tight curves in cities. Maybe not tight enough for illCOM, though.
2. If a route cannot be found over illCOM then an offshore railway would be used. The station would be on a new island, called illSTA or something. Blatent and TGR have lots on the East side of illCOM which it seems might be removed from them, so either of their lots could be used to join the main four-lane road of illCOM to a new island. This would be a bit like the Ocean Docks area in Los Santos; a man-made island but for the railway station. It could have a multi-storey carpark, some little shops, a restaurant, etc. In fact, the illSTA island could be divided into lots like illSUB was.
3. Putting the railway underground for illCOM has been suggested by many people previously. However, I think this would be a bad idea as it would require the creation of massive slopes to make the train switch from running on the land of illRES, illURB and Necrosis. Where would these slopes go? Either you have stupidly steep slopes coming from bridges, like in the Easter Basin area of San Fierro or you have underground tunnels from illRES and Necrosis. But that doesn't solve the problem, since you would need a steep slope somewhere near Necrosis for the railway to meet the land and another slope somewhere for illRES. If the railway is underground for illCOM, it would have to be underground everywhere because illCOM is the lowest major island.

Of these options, I think 2 might work the best. Very little intrusion, no stupidly sharp corners and the railway station will have a good road link to the main illCOM island. Another island would better justify the "Myriad Islands" project name, too.

 

 

 

illRES

I think a tunnel running through Black Mesa is a must-have. From which angle it will approach, how much it will curve, whether it will have an amount of slope and other things are not clear. If we do need a slope to get enough height for the hills of illURB, I think putting it inside the tunnel would be best as it would not be noticed quite so much.

1. Getting to Black Mesa in the first place has a couple of options. The easiest would be to enter it from the sea, coming from the South-west corner. Once inside the mountain, the railway could either curve to the West to run along the freeway and approach illURB from the East.
2. Alternatively, the railway could curve a gently to the North and then gently around to the West, ready to approach illURB's North-east corner.

Of these options, I think 1 might work best as it has minimal intrusion. We don't need a railway station on illURB because it is not a big center of people or business.

 

 

illURB

1. The railway would run on top of the cliffs, so there would be minimal interfeerence with roads and lots. A station could be placed on the North-East section of the island, on the edge of the cliff. There railway could then sink into a subway which would curve towards the South so it did not pop out in the Northern bay of illURB. The section were it sinks into the ground would be something like how Eurostar does it on the UK side.
2. If there is quite a sharp curve inside Black Mesa, then the railway could exit from the mountain in a flyover which ran alongside the North edge of the freeway. It would remain striaght, so there would be a bridge, tunnel or level crossing where the freeway turns North to go over the bridge. The railway bridge would be to the South of this bridge. If the railway began to curve south before the bridge and the bridge were curved towards the south, it might be possible for the railway to round around the South-east coastline of illURB. Otherwise, it would need to be a bit like how the railway runs between houses in the Prickle Pine area of Las Venturas in GTASA.
3. An extremely long flyover across the South-east area would be another possibility but woud interfeer with a lot of properties, roads and would require an epic amount of modelling. Would also mean that shadows would have to be added to any buildings, road and land which was placed underneath the flyover sections.

Of these options, I think 1 might work best since it has minimal intrusion. It would also allow a shallow, underground slope to be used so the railway could be brought to a level suitable for crossing the Necrosis island.

 

 

Other islands

I've recently seen some screenshots of JasonB's island and it is a major center of population which should have a railway link, imho. I don't know where it will be positioned after the GTAVC islands have moved, so there is currently no way to plan how to include it in the route.

 

 

Summary

These are just ideas. I think posting our rough plans directly into this topic and having them reviewed by everyone straight away would be best. The beaurocracy of sending them to the Council, then having them sent back, then sending them again, then getting an approval, then posting them to get them reviewed would create drastic delays and frustration, imho. Nothing will be made until all relevant people agree on a design, so we should get as much feedback as possible to make sure there are no problems.

 

It's clear to me that JasonB is a serious modder, so I look forward to working with him.

 

 

Rough Ideas

If the islands are moved to the North-West corner, I think it would make the environment look something like this:

1024 x 1024, 55.6kB.

 

My first general idea for the railway route:

1024 x 1024, 59.6kB

 

This is an extremely rough design. It's just to help people visualise the sort of railway route I'm thinking of.

Edited October 2, 2005 by Cerbera

[Knife]

There is more spare room in SA than I thought

 

Illcom - should stay underground me thinks

 

North - if it fits it should be at ground level

 

other islands - up to authors I guess

 

What a short post compaired to Cerbera's

[Gforce]

just my 10 cents, don't forget that trains in SA run in both direction's..............

 

@Cerbera.............Welcome back to Myriad, it's long overdue

[steve-m]

Probably, but since 1.0 hasn't been taken off the shelves here in Germany, they'll continue selling the old version until it's out of stock.

 

Also, 2.0 appears to be un-moddable, so we just don't support it. That easy. If people waited too long and didn't buy the first version, it's their problem, not ours.

[Gforce]

update screens

 

 

just need to update some of the interior and import the new landbase .............

[JasonB]

Probably, but since 1.0 hasn't been taken off the shelves here in Germany, they'll continue selling the old version until it's out of stock.

 

Also, 2.0 appears to be un-moddable, so we just don't support it. That easy. If people waited too long and didn't buy the first version, it's their problem, not ours.

Although it does sound harsh, I agree with Steve. Anyone who truely wanted the game would surely have bought it by now. I got it the day it came out. It isn't my problem that they procrastinated and now they are stuck with a post-hot-coffee version of SA.

It is a bit slack of R* to try and stop modding though, but that wont stop me.

[Knife]

It's a huge sanan billboard!

 

Nice work Gforce

[Knife]

THe hot coffie mod got over a million downloads. That shows how big an audience we have . So yeah, we will just have to keep it for versions 1.0 and 1.1.

 

It is a bit annoying though. I don't know why R* had to do it. How did they stop mods? Also this may mean future GTA's will be mod proof aswell

 

So, who thinks myriad will be released for SA before christmas?

 

Also, this project only has about a year and a half before the next gta so really thats the deadline. So...

 

 

Knife goes to work

[Gforce]

the SA billboard was made long ago as a test, that will definitely be changing.............

 

[Taekwon-joe]

Hi, i havnt been on these forums for quite some time now and i must say i am amazed by some of the new things you have all done.

 

Some of you might remember that a couple of months ago i posted a pic of this round mansion like thing.

 

 

After making this i realised that i have no idea how to put it in game, and that i am a total noob when it comes to modding.

 

The model itself is broken into 6 parts and looks pretty good in ZMod.

It seems fine to me but im sure most of you could probably find a problem or two with it.

 

The question is, is there anyone who would like to take it for a lot?

I really dont want this to go to waste cos i spent so long on it.

 

It probbably just needs to be textured properly (I suck at that), add some railings in and map it.

 

You can do anything you want to it, put it anywhere you like. I only ask that you keep its general design intact.

 

I think MI will one day be one of the best total conversions out there and i would love to have a small part in it.

 

Thanks to all of you.

[BenMillard]

I wouldn't expect the next GTA to be out for a long time yet. From the political side, games companies are taking a lot of criticism for continuing to make GTA-esque games. Evidently, R* think the solution is to roll over and beg for forgiveness (as shown by v2.0) and don't care about compeletly screwing over the core of their fan base. If they don't change their attitude, I won't get the next GTA and I'll tell everyone else not to get it either, so it won't matter to me when the next one comes out anyway.

 

Also, there's an issue of compatibility. The trend wioth R* has been for GTA to use more file formats which are more complicated and have less documentation, often none at all. Therefore, the next GTA is likely to use a completely different system, perhaps one which won't even work on the PC anyway. The next GTA looks like it will be modless, probably not come to the PC and be a financial failure. If that's the angle R* take with GTA, they can go bankrupt and shut down for all I care.

 

The alternative is that the gaming industry actually finds its balls. With independant research that video games do not harm normal people, with the court cases it continues to win. It may become a piece of scientific and legal fact that video games do not cause harm over the next few years. With the truth on their side, games creators would finally be able take this expressive medium to a whole new level, with full support for modders, consoles and PCs. Perhaps even an open-source game engine.

 

 

Whatever happens, the next GTA isn't going to be for a fair number of years, imho. I agree with Steve; SA2.0 doesn't change the way MI will be developed. The next GTA isn't worth concerning ourselves about, either.

Edited October 1, 2005 by Cerbera