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WD is starting to become to V what Saints Row 2 was to GTA IV.

First of all, when people talk about wanting more realism or simulation they still want the game to be exciting. No they don't mean they want you to play as a bootleg movie salesman or commit tax fraud or do boring more common crime. We can even flip this the other way and say that a crime simulator where you played as the police, and had to spend hours standing still at a protest doing pretty much nothing, or had to go on endless domestic violence calls or had to spend a half an hour at a speed trap waiting for cars to come by would be boring as well. And yes, the crimes that are shown in a crime simulator or GTA are immoral and would be controversial and are not something to idolize. However, watching an episode of cops, or gang documentaries, or crime movies, or listening to music about crime all of this showcases or makes it look interesting or exciting. Think about all of the great mob movies or gang movies or movies about cops or robbers, how many of them needed to have massive fake and silly shootouts, or gang members firing RPG's outside of helicopters or any sort of gimmicks that these games had? The more gritty, and believable the movie seems, the better they seem to do. Yet with video games we still have not reached this level. Video games are still stuck at cartoon super hero levels of crime, as opposed to serious gritty levels. A simulator where you played as a SWAT team member or gangbanger or bank robber or pimp or drug dealer or even a crazy pissed off guy who goes on a rampage or any sort of high intensity crime would in no way be boring at all. As a matter of fact, as a simulator it would be way more exciting then a dumbed down game that is simple and easy and doesn't represent these scenarios at all. In just about every sort of genre the best games these days have evolved and tend to go on and be more realistic and try to simulate the activity they represent. Just go on youtube and look at the sim football community who constantly hates on Madden. Loads of commentators who grew up playing and watching football who want an actual game that plays football find flaws and try to tell EA sports how to fix them. Just go on youtube and look at the iRacing, and Project Cars sim racing community. Just go on youtube and look at the amount of PC simulator titles that make simulators out of really niche and somewhat boring things ( like driving big trucks or a bus, or driving in traffic ). Just go on youtube and look at the detailed community of people who realistic first person shooters, games like ARMA which are becoming more and more popular who used to play OFP, project reality, insurgency, red orchestra and many others. Go to operation sports or the EA forums and look at the amount of people upset and disappointed that NHL or EA UFC and other games are not good enough and do not represent the sport properly and have issues. Look at the dedicated boxing fanbase asking for boxing simulators. Look at the fans of MLB The Show who like it because it simulates the sport. Look at how the Skate series which offered much more realistic skate boarding compared to Tony Hawk destroyed that series. Now look at the dead genres. Where are the NBA Jams? The NFL Blitz? Ready 2 Rumble Boxing? Tony Hawk Pro Skater? Why did Saints Row turn in to a joke franchise? Why are the Need For Speed and Test Drive games below and seen as inferior to the Gran Turismo and Forza's? It's because the simulators have evolved and actually represent the activity that the game is about, it shows the skills and strategies that one would need to apply ( and since it's a game the mental aspect matters more as opposed to the physical or the ability to even partake since most people will never actually be able to be a race car driver in real life, or will play pro sports or be a pro boxer, but as a fan of those activities or sports they could atleast play a simulation in a game that someone who is knowledgeable and understands the sport or activity could win ). It's because the simulators are the ones that give the player the most immersion when they play. It's because the simulators are the ones with the best details. So how could a game that simulates, pulling off heists, robbing stores, pimping ho's, being in the gun or drug trade, muggings, or being a cop who stops those crimes be seen as boring, when people love to listen to music or watch movies about those activities, when the majority of players of the game will never do these things in real life, and when they can be simulated and shown as a high risk dangerous activity with a lot of game play going on. Not once has a legit crime simulator came out as far as I am aware. Even a game playing as a police who has to stop crimes that was a simulator and focused on exciting crimes could make for a really great and revolutionary game. Also before anyone says that GTA was never meant to be realistic or a simulator, remember that video game series evolves, when GTA first started out it was a 2D top down view game, probably nobody thought it would turn into a free roam 3D first person game with the world and map it has now in the game. When GTA San Andreas came out, it was obvious the PS2 could not make the world or AI or game play mechanics realistic or quality, so it focused on quantity, the moment R* got better hardware they tried to evolve the gameplay mechanics and make it a bit more realistic for GTA IV and they carried through with this for RDR and for LA Noire as well and eventually dumbed it back down a bit for GTA V. Early sports games didn't start out as simulators either, games weren't able to put in realistic physics engines, or crowds, or game play mechanics. Early boxing games you couldn't even punch on the move, or slip punches at all angles. Early racing games, didn't have good car physics or weather effecting the track and some racing games still haven't even been able to evolve a good car damage system. Tony Hawk games had you skate in crazy places, do crazy tricks that nobody does in real life, do goofy challenges, and got destroyed by a series that made it so people actually had a learning curve and took a while before people could consistently land 360 flips and be able to do certain kind of grinds, and focused more on realistic skateboarding and filming and lines. So why should crime games not evolve? Why should crime games still have you do silly missions where you get into shootouts with 100s of braindead cops and sponge up bullets, with no real repercussions after that? Why is it that crime games are still stuck in super hero mode?

This may seem stupid to some, but I'd love the ability to put the hood up when wearing a jacket. If Saint's Row did it, why not GTA?

I actually agree with the OP here on the softer/smoother image with 720p! Just like how I noticed that I liked the way Saints Row 2 looked on my 480p Haier TV compared to my 720 HD Samsung. The aliasing was much more noticeable on the HD Samsung. So yeah for me I'll take smoother over sharper image wise.

Then go play something else. what an idiotic excuse of a response Idiotic? No, idiotic is sitting here and whining like a little baby that soiled its diaper because Rockstar haven't made the game exactly as you want it to be. That's life, kid, you can't always have what you want. There is a game for you, however, it's called Saints Row. Go play that and stop bitching. If your mom gave you a plate of dog sh*t for dinner, would you sit there, eating it, saying "GOD DAMN THIS DOG sh*t IS AWFUL *takes another bite* oh it's DISGUSTING *another bite* man this really sucks! *another bite*", or would you look in the pantry for something else to eat?

Saints Row The Third was 2011! GTAV is 2015! This is very unlikely. It doesn't matter.It needs to have everything,DirectX 9/10 or Last Gen mode for people that don't have powerful rigs(laptops) and maybe for the first wave of ENB's until Boris releases Dx11 one.It should be a perfect PC version of the game.It needs to have a lot of tweakable settings just like the first person mode and Dx9/last gen mode is one of those options .If the game scales from LG to CG on PC(like it should,visually),if it has a lots of different options and it performs well it is telling us that they did a good f*cking job for developing the game for the PC platform and they need to.They had plenty of time for that.I expect perfection in every way. Why should V support DirectX 9? You do realize DX9 is over 10 years old, right? If your card doesn't support at LEAST DX10, you're looking at a pre-2006 card, and boy, you should already upgrade your rig if it's built/made from 2006. DX11 cards starts to emerge at around 2010. You do realize that they were able to run the game on hardware from 2005 and why not include Dx9/10? Some people do not have high end /mid range gaming rigs.Some people can't afford to buy a new PC even if it's an entry build. I've been there,many times as a youngster.The Game should be available and playable to every PC user that has more powerful system than LG consoles and that's like 99%.Dx9 should be included because it performs better than Dx10 and first Dx11 cards would also perform better in Dx9.The more options, the better. Every cross platform game on the PC should be scalable from "LG" to "CG" but some devs are lazy,the other ones are forced not to include older API. I'll be using 970, so Max Settings, 1080p 60+ FPS for me and probably a SweetFx for the first vanilla playthrough. I'll be posting GTA V screenshots,don't you worry . edt. and gifs and gifs

Saints Row The Third was 2011! GTAV is 2015! This is very unlikely. It doesn't matter.It needs to have everything,DirectX 9/10 or Last Gen mode for people that don't have powerful rigs(laptops) and maybe for the first wave of ENB's until Boris releases Dx11 one.It should be a perfect PC version of the game.It needs to have a lot of tweakable settings just like the first person mode and Dx9/last gen mode is one of those options .If the game scales from LG to CG on PC(like it should,visually),if it has a lots of different options and it performs well it is telling us that they did a good f*cking job for developing the game for the PC platform and they need to.They had plenty of time for that.I expect perfection in every way. Why should V support DirectX 9? You do realize DX9 is over 10 years old, right? If your card doesn't support at LEAST DX10, you're looking at a pre-2006 card, and boy, you should already upgrade your rig if it's built/made from 2006. DX11 cards starts to emerge at around 2010.

Does anybody notice ever since V came out nobody really cares about Saints Row anymore? That is because people who wanted that kind of gameplay have their fill now. Many other GTAs before IV have over the top missions and SA is even more over the top than V but all of a sudden that kind of this is a problem these days. We have to have everything realistic and boring or else it is catering to the casual kiddies. IV was great for what it was but no way in hell should they have stayed on that course.

"Most" wants this, "most" wants that. That's all I hear from you. Unfortunately R* cares more about over the top ADHD COD, Saints Row players compared to more serious players these days because it makes them more money since the COD kids are the only ones dumb enough to buy cash cards so they can get enough virtual money to buy a monster truck and mod it to be chrome and carry around miniguns. The players who want a serious crime game and a technically impressive detailed masterpiece ( which is the art R* wants to make as shown by GTA IV, RDR, LA Noire ) are the sort of guys who buy a game and play the single player maybe they play the online to get with other like minded buddies and do some RP or play missions or jobs tactically but they wouldn't buy cash cards and R* doesn't think these guys are a large enough market compared to casual pick up and play COD players. It's the same thing how EA Sports makes it so games like Madden and EA Sports UFC are all catered and built around offense, and make it so scoring or spamming punches in that game are really easy, where guys can throw 200 punches in a sped up 5 minute round missing and hitting air spamming the buttons and not get punished with stamina, or how they can spam the L3 button to get up when taken down and do it 10 times in a row without any sort of thought or skill just mashing buttons so they can get back to spam kickboxing. Or how in Madden you got money plays and guys like Peyton Manning who scrubs who know nothing about football can score easily with. They do this because they know that only about 20% of the people who play the game will ever actually master it to play it realistically and the rest ( the kids or casual players or people who don't know about the sport ) just want to hit buttons and win easily. So EA Sports will cater to them, in the hopes that they buy the game and play online and buy DLC or cards for ultimate team.

Yeah, and that's why Saints Row was always looked at as just another GTA Clone and a poor game and did so poorly that they needed gimmicks like having a septic tank ( that was pretty much the exact same gameplay as a firetruck just with a retexture of sh*t instead of water ) by the second game, and gimmicks like freefalling shootouts and super powers by the fourth game and is now pretty much a dead series. Saints Row was always a technically unimpressive and awful game in terms of gameplay mechanics the only good things it did was give the user a lot of things to do and a lot of customization. www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvAJIVSLqK4 www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ0_AdWGtv8 What an awful game and pathetic series, that garbage should be the last thing that anyone wants to turn a series into. Ever notice that the simulator games, or games that strive to be moderately realistic and emulate the real life event or sport they are in tend to be the most well received among mature and serious players? Not one crime game has managed to do reach that level yet, Mafia games and GTA IV and RDR came close but had some issues GTA V has a good base but needs to have some changes in mods and the story prevents it. Not one game has ever really simulated robberies, drug dealing, being in a gang, being a cop, yet all of those things could easily make for an exciting interesting game on it's own if they stayed true to it in the story and gameplay mechanics, yet loads of sports games or driving or flying or war games have came out that are simulators. The mission Shadow in GTA IV where you chase down a drug dealer on foot to his apartment and bust into it and shoot 3 other drug dealers was way more exciting to me and believable compared to any shooting gallery shooting 100 braindead lifeless AI missions.

If GTA took some of you guys advice Saints Row would probably be the number one mainstream open world game right now. The reason it became so popular was because it had the over the top action many people missed in IV. Most people want over the top action in GTA. This forum is like Bizzaro world.

Saints Row The Third was 2011! GTAV is 2015! This is very unlikely. It doesn't matter.It needs to have everything,DirectX 9/10 or Last Gen mode for people that don't have powerful rigs(laptops) and maybe for the first wave of ENB's until Boris releases Dx11 one.It should be a perfect PC version of the game.It needs to have a lot of tweakable settings just like the first person mode and Dx9/last gen mode is one of those options .If the game scales from LG to CG on PC(like it should,visually),if it has a lots of different options and it performs well it is telling us that they did a good f*cking job for developing the game for the PC platform and they need to.They had plenty of time for that.I expect perfection in every way.

we can expect something like this Saints Row The Third was 2011! GTAV is 2015! This is very unlikely. Civ V used the same trick, play in DX11 or DX9 modes..... It even offers a safe mode to bug hunt for mod creators. I know Civ V is an older game, but Civ : Beyond Earth has a full Mantle mode available and the safe mode is accessable through the command prompt extensions, so Firaxis have continued the tradition of extending support for as many different modes as possible. Let's hope R* take note and offer similar support for GTA V, even command prompt extensions to access some of the logged modes would be a bonus and offer more options for modding.

we can expect something like this Saints Row The Third was 2011! GTAV is 2015! This is very unlikely.

Online needs to go back to how it was in May when it worked better,and have new content added like new survivals,contact missions,and the casino opened. Since the new gen release of gta5 online works slower and i now can not view snapmatics on the social club from my ps3 browser and save to the hd to view full screen. Single player could be improved big with just one change and that would be to have the safe house garage set up like Mafia 2 and Saints Row 3. All of our regular vehicles would then be available from one place and not the annoying way it is now. Overall gta 5 could be improved in so many ways that i would just rather gta6 be near. Gta 5 is great but it is what it is and it's time to move on and hope Rockstar reads gamer feedback like this forum.

It has! Just not THIS kind of realism! There is a difference between realism really trying to make game look and feel better and those, which only adds more limitations, rather than freedom of choices...like fueling system!...R* as a developer should acknowledge this and don't cross the line with this one and keep things balanced! Not too silly (Like Saints Row), not too realistic (Like some kind of real life simulator)!...Its very important for a successful open world title to maintain said balance, which stands as a fundamental ground for further improvements! Right now, GTA is the only title, that is more or less succeeds in keeping it that way! I can't say that about other GTA clones and open world sandbox games out there though...

Personally, I don't think the cut Tears For Fears song on VCFM was "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" since it had also been featured on Saints Row 2's own 80s station (The Mix 107.77) at the time. I definitely think "Mothers Talk" is a close call since it's very dance-oriented. At least they managed to get "Pale Shelter" on Wave 103 in VC.

I think Mercenaries 2: World In Flames is the best open world - game to play on the last generation consoles (or PC) if you crave for action and explosives. The first game, Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction which was released for the PS2 and the original Xbox, is still one of my favourite games. True action from start to finish. The Saints Row series is not meant for players who're seeking a more realistic experience. I think this is one of the last video game series' that have stayed true to themselves. Lighthearted, fun and comical gameplay focusing on the player having fun. Far Cry 2, as someone else already mentioned it, is a very challenging experience. You take on the role of a lone mercenary in a civil war-ridden African country. The environment is what you'd think Africa is: savannas, rain forests, lakes, rivers, deserts and small villages. Your missions are to kill and avoid being killed. There are no side activities to do aside from searching for conflict diamonds (in-game cash) and golden weapons. Far Cry 2 has a lot of realistic animations in it that truly immerse you into the game such as plucking a bullet out of a wound in your arm, fixing your vehicle et cetera. Your guns can jam during a firefight (here the golden weapons come into play: they are much more durable) and your vehicle can suffer a breakdown while you're driving in the desert. Fire is big element in this game as you can start bushfires to deal with your enemies. The conflict diamonds are used to upgrade your skills with weapons and vehicles. The most recent installments to the Far Cry series, Far Cry 3 & 4, abandoned the sense of isolation and instead brought about a user-friendly type of gameplay that focuses more on explosive action and considered storytelling. The in-game mechanics are relatively much of the same as in Far Cry 2. Here's what I think about GTA: I think the GTA games are and have always been (since GTA 3) the balance between two extremes in open-world games: mindless fun and premeditated realism.

Who is we? Because I and some other people prefer more realistic games. In Saints Row, and GTA Vice City cars stop even quicker and turn corners quicker compared to GTA IV, and Need For Speed you can take corners faster then Gran Turismo yet pretty much everyone would agree that GTA IV and Gran Turismo have more advanced and better driving that requires more skills. Why not just make it so R* gives players the choice or option, similar to how they have auto or assisted aim for players who are not good at video games and free aim for players who want a more challenging game. Gta IV driving is terrible, I can't believe how anyone can say driving in that game is close to realistic. The suspension on cars are like pogo sticks jumping all over The place. I have driven all kinds Of cars in RL and I have never experienced that kind Of body roll, even The stiffest car in IV rolls more than my 77 Cadillac Coupe Deville. And dont get me startes on The buttery Brakes... V is closer to realistic, but far from it, but for a game it is perfect IMO. Not only thatthe camera iniv is terible also . I have to keep my thumb on the right analog stick wnen driving . The camera stays behind the car nearly at bumper level. I can hardly see the road unless i adjust the camera.

Trevor says some funny things sometimes and Steven Ogg did an excellent job, but Trevor is still one of the worst characters in GTA history. He is so over the top he belongs in a Saints Row game.

Never actually played Sleeping Dogs only saw it on a stream ( unlike the other games on the list ) but on the stream the driving looked like Saints Row and the cars looked like they didn't get damaged and could drive through anything, also the combat looked pretty bad as well.No way man,the combat is awesome n u unlock new moves n combos the more u play n using the environment is crazy like dropping an engine on someone,sticking their face in a fan or throwing them through a huge fish tank lol

Never actually played Sleeping Dogs only saw it on a stream ( unlike the other games on the list ) but on the stream the driving looked like Saints Row and the cars looked like they didn't get damaged and could drive through anything, also the combat looked pretty bad as well.

Who is we? Because I and some other people prefer more realistic games. In Saints Row, and GTA Vice City cars stop even quicker and turn corners quicker compared to GTA IV, and Need For Speed you can take corners faster then Gran Turismo yet pretty much everyone would agree that GTA IV and Gran Turismo have more advanced and better driving that requires more skills. Why not just make it so R* gives players the choice or option, similar to how they have auto or assisted aim for players who are not good at video games and free aim for players who want a more challenging game. Realism =/= challenging. "Yeah! f*ck having fun! Let's make a game that is no different from real life!" - You Yeah and realism in video games = fun and excitement. If not why is it that the top racing, and sports games are games that simulate those events properly? You would honestly find a game that actually simulated bank robberies, gang shootouts, high level drug dealing, pimping, robberies, evading and running from the police to be boring? Just because your real life is boring, doesn't mean that a video game that simulates somewhat realistically events that 99% of the population would not be involved in, would be boring. Who is we? Because I and some other people prefer more realistic games. In Saints Row, and GTA Vice City cars stop even quicker and turn corners quicker compared to GTA IV, and Need For Speed you can take corners faster then Gran Turismo yet pretty much everyone would agree that GTA IV and Gran Turismo have more advanced and better driving that requires more skills. Why not just make it so R* gives players the choice or option, similar to how they have auto or assisted aim for players who are not good at video games and free aim for players who want a more challenging game. Gta IV driving is terrible, I can't believe how anyone can say driving in that game is close to realistic. The suspension on cars are like pogo sticks jumping all over The place. I have driven all kinds Of cars in RL and I have never experienced that kind Of body roll, even The stiffest car in IV rolls more than my 77 Cadillac Coupe Deville. And dont get me startes on The buttery Brakes... V is closer to realistic, but far from it, but for a game it is perfect IMO. Yeah I said the game wasn't perfect, but compare GTA IV driving to other free roaming games before it, and it was obviously a lot more advanced compared to the others except for maybe Mafia and it still has the best level of car deformation in the genre.

Who is we? Because I and some other people prefer more realistic games. In Saints Row, and GTA Vice City cars stop even quicker and turn corners quicker compared to GTA IV, and Need For Speed you can take corners faster then Gran Turismo yet pretty much everyone would agree that GTA IV and Gran Turismo have more advanced and better driving that requires more skills. Why not just make it so R* gives players the choice or option, similar to how they have auto or assisted aim for players who are not good at video games and free aim for players who want a more challenging game. Gta IV driving is terrible, I can't believe how anyone can say driving in that game is close to realistic. The suspension on cars are like pogo sticks jumping all over The place. I have driven all kinds Of cars in RL and I have never experienced that kind Of body roll, even The stiffest car in IV rolls more than my 77 Cadillac Coupe Deville. And dont get me startes on The buttery Brakes... V is closer to realistic, but far from it, but for a game it is perfect IMO.

Who is we? Because I and some other people prefer more realistic games. In Saints Row, and GTA Vice City cars stop even quicker and turn corners quicker compared to GTA IV, and Need For Speed you can take corners faster then Gran Turismo yet pretty much everyone would agree that GTA IV and Gran Turismo have more advanced and better driving that requires more skills. Why not just make it so R* gives players the choice or option, similar to how they have auto or assisted aim for players who are not good at video games and free aim for players who want a more challenging game. Realism =/= challenging. "Yeah! f*ck having fun! Let's make a game that is no different from real life!" - You