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Emotional Depth In RDR2?

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damienrayemusic
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#1

Posted 13 April 2018 - 05:33 PM Edited by damienrayemusic, 13 April 2018 - 05:35 PM.

While we endure the rest of this drought another thought came to mind that can be fun to see other peoples ideas and speculations. Zelnick said RDR2 will have "great emotional depth" what do you think this is referring to within the story? What could happen??

I am thinking first off, arthur and dutch will have quite a rocky relationship leading to lots of anger/bloodshed and betrayal. Maybe even dutches mansion is the one in the trailer being burned down by his actions... i think we are gonna see john left for dead and the reason why bill seems to hate john so much.. i predict that maybe john or arthur have an emotional moment where one of them saves each other, or one of the other gang members which instead of that. John chooses to save arthur or arthur chooses to save john. What leads me to think that arthur and john are maybe close if this happens (first trailer quote) and also in RDR1 bill says "you never did try to save me before... you only seemed... to save yourself" sounds to me like a lot of the gang will be in danger over what happens in RDR2.. also worth noting that "Arthur is one of the only fools the girl said she can trust".. he may be a good guy in some ways. Maybe him and john see who dutch really is and everyone else splits apart within this conflict.. what are your thoughts?
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joshua969
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#2

Posted 13 April 2018 - 05:40 PM

I have a feeling that Arthur doesn't start out as an outlaw, but he's driven to it.

I'm wondering if that burning field in the first trailer is actually his home.  Possibly an outlaw gang does it, and he joins Dutchs gang to get revenge on them.

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damienrayemusic
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#3

Posted 13 April 2018 - 05:48 PM


I have a feeling that Arthur doesn't start out as an outlaw, but he's driven to it.

I'm wondering if that burning field in the first trailer is actually his home.  Possibly an outlaw gang does it, and he joins Dutchs gang to get revenge on them.

hmmm... plot twist. VERY interestint possibility my dude! I forgot all about the burning field... sh*t maybe that is why he is standing in front of it.. the RDR newspaper does say that the van der linde gang was notorious for many murders and burnings... lots of arson... also i too think arthur doesnt start as an outlaw, but becomes one. I know arthur will have that hook that draws you in to care about and understand him he wont just be a flatout asshole
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#4

Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:12 PM

You mentioned that there may be a betrayal in Dutch's gang..

 

What if Dutch wants a job done that involves killing someone completely innocent ?  Possibly Arthur and others don't quite agree with this philosophy, and a split within the gang happens.   

 

It was mentioned in RDR that the gang were somewhat robin hood types...rob the rich and give to the poor.  If Dutch does start 'losing it' in RDR2, his philosophy may start to evolve.

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J.Dillinger Blackheart
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#5

Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:30 PM

Agreed josh, this is just what i take from everything shown. The first trailer with the only dialogue being "when the time comes you have to run and dont look back". I going to go on a limb and say something happens to Arthur that pushes him into the outlaw life.A love 1 is killed maybe, Possibly where he gets his scars from. Along his path he will cross paths with Van der linde gang and i think that is where things are going to get interesting. I dont think he just starts out with dutch and the gang idk i could be wrong, but i think Arthur will have his own gang or been a big part of a gang before meeting dutch.

The "emotional depth" i think may have to do with the animals and of course the story, but idk thats what i want to see the most i think.
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#6

Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:47 PM

I hope they do more with Bill Williamson and Javier Escuela. Something to make Bill more than just a crazy person and actually show us why is he the way he is in RDR. Same goes for Javier. Basically something to make me look at the Williamson and Escuela in RDR differently.

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#7

Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:53 PM Edited by phenetole, 13 April 2018 - 06:55 PM.

I think that girl will definitely play a apart in the emotional aspect to the story. My theory is that she is Arthur's sister (by blood or like a close childhood friend with a strong bond) and that Dutch or someone in the gang harms her in someway.

https://www.rockstar...5de8f7ed607.jpg

This screenshot really gives me a sorta brother sister vibe for some reason.
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damienrayemusic
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#8

Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:55 PM Edited by damienrayemusic, 13 April 2018 - 06:59 PM.

All great theories. I get the vibe that Bill is the way he is because he feels like an outcast/shunned by the whole gang especially John. From the dialogue in RDR it really sounds like John was like a favorite to dutch. "Now im in charge! No more dutch, and no more you." Seems like they were the leaders along with whoever arthur really is, bill must have been cast aside and therefore feels very bitter and jealous. Also yes! I think they are either siblings or that could be his significant otther... what about heidi? The girl fron the ferry? Think we will also see what happens to her/she has anything to do with this?
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joshua969
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#9

Posted 13 April 2018 - 07:03 PM Edited by joshua969, 13 April 2018 - 07:04 PM.

Maybe it's too predictable, but maybe the girl in the screenshots IS Heidi.  Nothing said that Heidi was an innocent bystander on the ferry...maybe she gets caught in the cross-fire on the raid.

It would definitely be emotional if Arthur and her form a bond throughout the campaign and she is killed on the ferry raid.

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1898
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#10

Posted 13 April 2018 - 07:04 PM Edited by 1898, 13 April 2018 - 07:07 PM.

I think I mentioned in another thread a while back I think he had worked hard for his money so I'm jumping on the Arthur didn't start out as an outlaw train.
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damienrayemusic
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#11

Posted 13 April 2018 - 07:06 PM

She very well could be heidi... and I agree I never thought arthur was just an outlaw, the backstory will be there& I think he was a rancher until something goes wrong maybe he lost everything...

Damn it guys I just want this f*cking game already lol these possibilities bring the hype wayyy up
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#12

Posted 13 April 2018 - 07:21 PM

Hey guys, hit that like button if you think being haunted Arthur Morgan.. is kinda hot.

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#13

Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:46 PM

Guys I think Arthur has his own gang they rob and steal bank
One day he came someone (maybe dutch or someone was robbed by Arthur and his gang)
And destroy the heartland oil field (arthur hometown)arthur became very hateful and wanted to know who he was and dutch came and told him that he know who killed your familly and burned his town that why we saw him in the 2nd trailer Killing with no mercy and the story progress and the blonde girl join the gang and arthur become love with her (she isn't his sister in the trailer she said"You are the only one of those fools who a trust")
And arthur became happy because of this girl And he wants to start a new family with her and left the dutch's gang (micheal in gta 5 wanted to take care of his family and get away from robbing banks)
dutch tell him who cause the burning town (maybe is duch or someone else) arthur go to kill that motherf*cka and that motherf*cka tell to arthur that dutch who burn his familly with him
And arthur keep robbing with dutch's gang and He told to John" when the times comes you gotta run and don't look back this over" And john don't listen to him and he keep working with dutch's gang john tell to duch That Arthur wants to left or he wants to betray you
In the trailer
dutch: do you have my bag
Arthur: always dutch
Look at arthur face when he say that
Before Ending
Dutch kill arthur and the blond girl
Or arthur escape because he want to be happy with his new familly
Ending
1906 the failed robbery when the dutch left john (you play as him and you remember what
Arthur said) and you left the gang
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DoctorMike
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#14

Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:29 PM

She is, in fact, Heidi McCourt. John says he doesn't know Heidi McCourt, but the strange man responds with "Why would you remember me, friend, you've forgotten far more important people than me" that means Heidi was someone important who gets killed in the failed robbery in 1906 which also means that the game will be set in 1906

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damienrayemusic
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#15

Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:50 PM

Hmmm... interesting. Really cant wait to see how arthur and johns relationship turns out..
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#16

Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:00 PM Edited by Cozzi, 14 April 2018 - 07:02 PM.

She is, in fact, Heidi McCourt. John says he doesn't know Heidi McCourt, but the strange man responds with "Why would you remember me, friend, you've forgotten far more important people than me" that means Heidi was someone important who gets killed in the failed robbery in 1906 which also means that the game will be set in 1906

Not necessarily, it could take place at any time and just include the events of 1906. could have time skips for all we know and take place over the course of like 5 years.

Hmmm... interesting. Really cant wait to see how arthur and johns relationship turns out..

Judging by what they did to Johnny in GTA:V I think Arthur is gonna f*ck Abigail and beat the sh*t out of Jack before shooting John on the ferry raid. lol

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#17

Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:09 PM

I don't believe Heidi McCourt was supposed to be some specific person John supposedly knew from before. The Strange Man brings her up in the final conversation to make a point to John about how he and the gang hurt and killed innocent people in their wake, perhaps mostly during the time of Dutch's derangement. These people had their own lives, friends and family and were important in their own way, in their own narrative. 

 

Remember Muriel Scranton, the woman Dutch shoots in the head during the mission where John confronts Dutch inside the bank? Same principle, but this character has a face.

 

Overall, the whole "hurr bhurrrr the new female character has to be heidi/bonnie/whomeverthef*ck" thing feels too predictable, and from a storytelling perspective it'd be kinda sh*tty, since we'd know exactly how things end for her the moment we'd learn her name. Rockstar games don't always have perfect stories, but they sure as hell aren't that predictable. 

 

Only time will tell, friends.

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#18

Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:29 PM

The only emotional depth you'll get in this game is when you realise you've already blown next months wages on buying Buckeroo Cards to purchase overpriced horse blankets and chewing tobbaco.

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#19

Posted 14 April 2018 - 11:24 PM

My pipe dream for RDR2 was always a Godfather II scenario, in which we play in prohibition times with an older and wise Jack Marston doing his errands in big cities (giving us an urban setting), and also with a young John during his early days with the gang (perhaps the big burning house at the trailer is the orphanage where he as found by Dutch). That would give us a great excuse for multiple protagonists and different feels for the same game.

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#20

Posted 14 April 2018 - 11:45 PM

 

She is, in fact, Heidi McCourt. John says he doesn't know Heidi McCourt, but the strange man responds with "Why would you remember me, friend, you've forgotten far more important people than me" that means Heidi was someone important who gets killed in the failed robbery in 1906 which also means that the game will be set in 1906

Not necessarily, it could take place at any time and just include the events of 1906. could have time skips for all we know and take place over the course of like 5 years.

Hmmm... interesting. Really cant wait to see how arthur and johns relationship turns out..

Judging by what they did to Johnny in GTA:V I think Arthur is gonna f*ck Abigail and beat the sh*t out of Jack before shooting John on the ferry raid. lol

 

Can't really happen since this a prequel but i think i know what you meant :D

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#21

Posted 15 April 2018 - 12:03 AM

She isn't heidi If we meet her in the game and we know her name this is means the story has been spoiled i rdr
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#22

Posted 4 weeks ago Edited by Yelda, 4 weeks ago.

nice ideas :) personally I can imagine a lot of scenarios.

Regardless of the relationship between Arthur and Dutch's gang, I hope that the feeling of belonging to a gang isn't neglected. I really want to feel like a member of a gang ... with as much depth as possible and with everything that goes with it. Superiority, violence and power, but also sad and helpless moments, happiness, partnership and humor.

Such moments as the death of a member, a failed robbery, the hunt or the feeling of holding a train, and the pockets continue fill with gold or people tremble in fear when they hear your name ... oh yeah! I'm really looking forward to it!
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#23

Posted 4 weeks ago

Overall, the whole "hurr bhurrrr the new female character has to be heidi/bonnie/whomeverthef*ck" thing feels too predictable, and from a storytelling perspective it'd be kinda sh*tty, since we'd know exactly how things end for her the moment we'd learn her name. Rockstar games don't always have perfect stories, but they sure as hell aren't that predictable. 

This is why I still believe that the kid in trailer 2 that Arthur threatens is young John Marston. When you listen to the dialog in the mission Women and Cattle, John explains the story of his father and how his mother died giving birth but nowhere in the dialog (that I've found) says she died giving birth to John. I feel like this will be something R* plays off of, something that's been misinterpreted this whole time 

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#24

Posted 4 weeks ago

I love this idea for a thread; I've been waiting for it!!!  :lol:

 

God emotional depth.... Seeing how Arthur came to be the man he is today (well... back then, but you get what I mean?), to someone who yearns for the guilt to be ridden from him. He's got optimism - listen, he does - if he didn't see good in people or in the world, why would he try to find redemption? We're gonna feel for him. We're going to see him rise and fall. His strengths and weaknesses. We're going to relate to him, or at least sympathize with him like how we did John. Arthur's got emotional depth. I, personally, think we'll see more into his backstory than just a few lines of dialogue (and we're gonna see John's too, as this is a prequel). Not a flashback, well maybe but I don't think so but I'd like to hear your thoughts if you do, but Arthur can go into depth about it possibly if the time is right. John's story started after he retired his criminal ways- a few years after, as a matter of fact. Arthur's story is starting in the middle of the action. We're gonna see why he's like this and why he's wanting/needing to change, we're going to help him. We're wanting to.

 

I'm definitely eager to see this man progress. I just can't wait to see how much he's going to be changing. We can only speculate things about him but I honestly feel like everyone's right in some ways. We know he's a bad-ass leader who's got serious emotional damage (I mean he's a thief trying to walk on the path of the right...) I'm just excited to see how much more we get right about him. We're basically making our own Arthur, which I think is pretty cool.

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#25

Posted 4 weeks ago Edited by Yelda, 4 weeks ago.

I love this idea for a thread; I've been waiting for it!!!  :lol:

 

God emotional depth.... Seeing how Arthur came to be the man he is today (well... back then, but you get what I mean?), to someone who yearns for the guilt to be ridden from him. He's got optimism - listen, he does - if he didn't see good in people or in the world, why would he try to find redemption? We're gonna feel for him. We're going to see him rise and fall. His strengths and weaknesses. We're going to relate to him, or at least sympathize with him like how we did John. Arthur's got emotional depth. I, personally, think we'll see more into his backstory than just a few lines of dialogue (and we're gonna see John's too, as this is a prequel). Not a flashback, well maybe but I don't think so but I'd like to hear your thoughts if you do, but Arthur can go into depth about it possibly if the time is right. John's story started after he retired his criminal ways- a few years after, as a matter of fact. Arthur's story is starting in the middle of the action. We're gonna see why he's like this and why he's wanting/needing to change, we're going to help him. We're wanting to.

 

I'm definitely eager to see this man progress. I just can't wait to see how much he's going to be changing. We can only speculate things about him but I honestly feel like everyone's right in some ways. We know he's a bad-ass leader who's got serious emotional damage (I mean he's a thief trying to walk on the path of the right...) I'm just excited to see how much more we get right about him. We're basically making our own Arthur, which I think is pretty cool.

Wow very well written ... I love the way you wrote it! :D

I´m also looking forward to the story, the feelings how to play different ways ... I think it will be very emotional.
The "leak" in February, it was said that within the missions we´ve different choices ... depending on how we interact morally. I´m very excited about that ...
I'm so curious to learn Arthur´s story and about his motivation and background. Arthur's way seems to be without a way out. Why he became what he is now ...?
 

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#26

Posted 4 weeks ago

I think that the emotional weight will be built out from the gang being like a family with Dutch and Arthur as its senior figures.

The tension will come from the conflict generated by Dutch being drawn to his higher purpose of rejecting and destroying civilisation and using the gang as a tool to achieve that aim whereas Arthur will be committed to keeping the gang safe. It all f*cks up.

Gang members will choose sides, friends become enemies, enemies become friends, alliances, betrayal etc...

It will definitely end in tragedy.
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#27

Posted 4 weeks ago

Loving the theories everyone!! This seriously builds up the hype for me!!
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#28

Posted 4 weeks ago

Another thing I'd like to mention about Arthur, I know this is way too early to say anything - but I see him as an introvert- keeps his feelings under wraps; I think he'd get angry and show it, but he's not a short fuse. But he's not eerily calm either. In a mission, if it goes wrong and someone is to become a bit too jumpy and cynical, Arthur would pull them through with a threat, like grabbing them by the collar and showing his superiority. "Get your ass back out there!" He's committed to his job, and carries everything out according to plan. He's always got a plan, and it always works out well. Not necessarily charismatic when it comes to this, but people can be drawn to him because of how burly and original he is. He's logical, creative, and understands people well. He uses this to his advantage.

 

The men who work for him, whether they be his own or Dutch's men, respect him. He's not a father figure like Dutch is, and hell I don't think Dutch was that way to Arthur; but they respect and trust him. He's smart, calculating. Probably smarter than most of them; I see the Native man as pretty smart, same with the woman - mainly because I think they're his closest buddies. Arthur can act on impulse but he doesn't go overboard with his desires. He's probably lost. Maybe he always has been - he either wanted this life like Vito Scaletta wanted to be the biggest, baddest wiseguy growing up, or he had to do it... but he knows that life can exist without it. Without murdering, robbing, extorting... unlike Bill or Javi - violence is in their blood. But Arthur can see that there's more to the world than just what they're doing and by doing that stuff, it's not getting him anywhere.

 

Unlike Dutch, Arthur doesn't let things get to his head. He doesn't worry about being a good leader or not earning fear, he gets that - he's used to it. But Dutch let his delusions get to his head. Dutch is almost selfish, but won't admit it. Not because it would change others' opinions of him, but it would make him have to change his ways himself. He can't live with a lie if he's not repressing it. Arthur knows that. He sees right through him. He's going to stop trusting him, if he ever even did in the first place, but he's going to do it secretly. It's a thorough process, and he can't do it all at once. What if he leaves, then what? Dutch is gonna find him and kill him. And Arthur's probably gonna lose. Maybe he's afraid of Dutch even? Of how loyal the men are to him. Personally, the Native and Blondie seem more tied to Arthur; but it's not enough. What if they die at the hands of the men who are so enamored with Dutch?

Arthur's going to go against Dutch slowly. Maybe we'll see this relationship, rich with trust and it seems a bit sanguine. Arthur will help Dutch and Dutch will trust Arthur. But we know how Dutch's story ends. We can understand why he got what he got in the end, whether we wanted him to die or not. Arthur's moving away from him at his own pace that makes it safe for himself and for whatever allies he's got left. And then there's John Marston. He's got a heart, a big one. John sees right through Dutch's sh*t as well. John's got two children and wife, whom every man takes advantage of and later berate John for. Maybe John trusts Arthur more than he does Dutch, and he took him in at an early age. Then Arthur's going to have to slow down this process of betrayal even more, because of this guy, his two kids and a wife. John's got hope, love, life to live/fight for. Something Arthur maybe had, or wants. And Dutch is gonna take it from him no matter what happens.

 

Which is why we get that line. "Do you have my back?" Dutch isn't just asking because he's used to doing so. No, he's asking Arthur because he knows. I can almost hear the skepticism in Dutch's words, like: "I know you're lying to me, son." He looks at Arthur and you know he sees right through his bullsh*t. You can hear Dutch's voice pour out skepticism, with a hint of fear - he's making sure nothing else goes wrong. Because something happened. I can just see it in his eyes, especially since he's looking up at Arthur at that moment. He turns his head to look at him when he asks, to look him in the eyes and find a flaw somewhere in there.

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#29

Posted 4 weeks ago Edited by damienrayemusic, 4 weeks ago.

Another thing I'd like to mention about Arthur, I know this is way too early to say anything - but I see him as an introvert- keeps his feelings under wraps; I think he'd get angry and show it, but he's not a short fuse. But he's not eerily calm either. In a mission, if it goes wrong and someone is to become a bit too jumpy and cynical, Arthur would pull them through with a threat, like grabbing them by the collar and showing his superiority. "Get your ass back out there!" He's committed to his job, and carries everything out according to plan. He's always got a plan, and it always works out well. Not necessarily charismatic when it comes to this, but people can be drawn to him because of how burly and original he is. He's logical, creative, and understands people well. He uses this to his advantage.
 
The men who work for him, whether they be his own or Dutch's men, respect him. He's not a father figure like Dutch is, and hell I don't think Dutch was that way to Arthur; but they respect and trust him. He's smart, calculating. Probably smarter than most of them; I see the Native man as pretty smart, same with the woman - mainly because I think they're his closest buddies. Arthur can act on impulse but he doesn't go overboard with his desires. He's probably lost. Maybe he always has been - he either wanted this life like Vito Scaletta wanted to be the biggest, baddest wiseguy growing up, or he had to do it... but he knows that life can exist without it. Without murdering, robbing, extorting... unlike Bill or Javi - violence is in their blood. But Arthur can see that there's more to the world than just what they're doing and by doing that stuff, it's not getting him anywhere.
 
Unlike Dutch, Arthur doesn't let things get to his head. He doesn't worry about being a good leader or not earning fear, he gets that - he's used to it. But Dutch let his delusions get to his head. Dutch is almost selfish, but won't admit it. Not because it would change others' opinions of him, but it would make him have to change his ways himself. He can't live with a lie if he's not repressing it. Arthur knows that. He sees right through him. He's going to stop trusting him, if he ever even did in the first place, but he's going to do it secretly. It's a thorough process, and he can't do it all at once. What if he leaves, then what? Dutch is gonna find him and kill him. And Arthur's probably gonna lose. Maybe he's afraid of Dutch even? Of how loyal the men are to him. Personally, the Native and Blondie seem more tied to Arthur; but it's not enough. What if they die at the hands of the men who are so enamored with Dutch?

Arthur's going to go against Dutch slowly. Maybe we'll see this relationship, rich with trust and it seems a bit sanguine. Arthur will help Dutch and Dutch will trust Arthur. But we know how Dutch's story ends. We can understand why he got what he got in the end, whether we wanted him to die or not. Arthur's moving away from him at his own pace that makes it safe for himself and for whatever allies he's got left. And then there's John Marston. He's got a heart, a big one. John sees right through Dutch's sh*t as well. John's got two children and wife, whom every man takes advantage of and later berate John for. Maybe John trusts Arthur more than he does Dutch, and he took him in at an early age. Then Arthur's going to have to slow down this process of betrayal even more, because of this guy, his two kids and a wife. John's got hope, love, life to live/fight for. Something Arthur maybe had, or wants. And Dutch is gonna take it from him no matter what happens.

 

Which is why we get that line. "Do you have my back?" Dutch isn't just asking because he's used to doing so. No, he's asking Arthur because he knows. I can almost hear the skepticism in Dutch's words, like: "I know you're lying to me, son." He looks at Arthur and you know he sees right through his bullsh*t. You can hear Dutch's voice pour out skepticism, with a hint of fear - he's making sure nothing else goes wrong. Because something happened. I can just see it in his eyes, especially since he's looking up at Arthur at that moment. He turns his head to look at him when he asks, to look him in the eyes and find a flaw somewhere in there.
i wanna reply so much mor eto this but i have been on the forums all day and im very sick so i need to rest and get off the site for now. But i just wanna say QUALITY POST girl!! & your name, i take it youre a big uncharted fan too?:) This was amazing and really helps the hype still😁 definitely in the end of the trailer, there is somethin sketchy between arthur and dutch. You can definitely tell they are both being skeptic and on watch of each other, dutch shows that he is unsure of arthur while i bet the whole gang is falling apart and he is the only one left , and arthur sounds sarcastic the way he says "always dutch" its very suspicious and so freaking cool how it ends after that with arthur shooting at the screen before the logo pops up. So well done. I cant wait. I need to see john and arthur interact i reslly think they are gonna be good friends and understand each other. The two truly good men with a bad past within that gang.
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Cozzi
  • Cozzi

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  • Mars

#30

Posted 4 weeks ago

 

I have a feeling that Arthur doesn't start out as an outlaw, but he's driven to it.

I'm wondering if that burning field in the first trailer is actually his home.  Possibly an outlaw gang does it, and he joins Dutchs gang to get revenge on them.

 

Does Arthur strike you guys as someone that grew up with money? like to even have a field and a house to burn down?

Maybe hes a pissed off southerner and the union burned his farm down and hes been outlawing ever since. lol. might be inconsistent with the time though but we still dont technically know which year it is. I just like The Outlaw Josey Wales. lol

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