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GTA 4 driving should make a return

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ChiroVette
  • ChiroVette

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#91

Posted 08 April 2018 - 11:20 PM

Exactly why I love 4 over 5. I would love to kill everyone in GTA 5 and play GTA 4 on PC until just cause 5 comes out.


Well, luckily we have a decent start on killing off all the forgettable IV characters with Roman, Kate, and Johnny K. I stopped playing IV waaaaay back a decade ago and never looked back. And will play V waiting for VI. By the way, you missed a Just Cause, as the current game is JC3.

Jdogg4089
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#92

Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:05 AM

Exactly why I love 4 over 5. I would love to kill everyone in GTA 5 and play GTA 4 on PC until just cause 5 comes out.

Well, luckily we have a decent start on killing off all the forgettable IV characters with Roman, Kate, and Johnny K. I stopped playing IV waaaaay back a decade ago and never looked back. And will play V waiting for VI. By the way, you missed a Just Cause, as the current game is JC3.

Well, whatever ya fancy. The GTA 4 driving is too bouncy

Mexicola9302
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#93

Posted 09 April 2018 - 04:45 PM

GTA IV handling sucked everything was understeering and that`s what they called realism it just wasn`t fun to drive in GTA IV.

 

I wouldn`t mind getting Forza or Gran Turismo handling in GTA VI. It`s the handling of those games i liked the most it`s semirealistic and still feels right. I hope the handling doesn`t go in the direction of any newer need for speed games it isn`t fun at all. Need for Speed 2015 was the worst of all in my opinion.


Purgen
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#94

Posted 09 April 2018 - 05:44 PM

Cars in GTA IV being raised off the ground while turning at higher speeds reminds me of my IRL car. I disliked it back then, but I miss it now.

As for motorcycle, worst ever. Whoever unironically thinks a motorcycle behaves as such in GTA V should sit on one and break their neck trying to get it offroad or pull some of the bull on the roads.
 

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VictorVance1239
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#95

Posted 14 April 2018 - 01:23 AM

 

 

It was removed for a reason,driving like boats isn't realistic.


And that's not the reason. It was because of GTA SA kiddies who bitched and cried.

 

Dan Houser himself stated:

 

The cars [in GTA V] hold to the ground a bit better. WE Thought they were big and boatlike in GTA IV, and we feel like it has really leaped forward because we're able to run a little more physics on them. It feels more like a racing game. There are not a lot of high level racing games out there at the moment, and that itch is going to be scratched by this game in a way maybe it hasn't been in previous GTAs.

 

It has become a fashion to blame Sa fans for every thing that is wrong about IV. Is Dan Houser, or Rockstar an SA kiddie??

 

Accept the fact - IV's driving had problems.

 

The people that had no issues having fun with IV's driving don't have to accept anything you say.

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BigDtoyboy
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#96

Posted 16 April 2018 - 12:52 AM

No. I prefer the 3D era style, especially, SA's driving and flying system was absolutely spot on! I find IVs driving more annoying and hardly enjoyable for a game like GTA. It isn't all that fun, and NO, I am not bad at driving, at all. I just don't want the experience of driving needlessly frustrating to penalize the players when braking and accelerating during driving at almost every turn and corner of the street. It particularly angers me during those large number of scripted chase sequences in IV that won't reward for my driving skills after how well I maneuver the vehicle, throughout the chase but deliberately feels like the game is cheating despite my good performance. Same goes on random sandboxing experiments where the physics and over the top vehicle damage model completely kill the fun factor of GTA's driving experience that I enjoyed in the previous GTA's.


To me that just sounds like you are a bad driver.

#BRINGBACKIVDRIVING
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ChiroVette
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#97

Posted 4 weeks ago

To me that just sounds like you are a bad driver.

#BRINGBACKIVDRIVING


Only a stuck-in-the-past Snore IV fan reminiscing about a passe offering from a decade ago would accuse someone of a lack of skill just because they don't like what you do. Really, don't you guys ever get tired of reducing every single acknowledgment of all the vast improvements Rockstar made in V over IV to being players wanting to be spoon-fed, GTA fans being "low brow," preferring "an inferior" story, and people sucking as gamers? Just accept that people want different things from games. V's driving is a HUGE improvement over IV's, particularly when you take into account the fact that V's map is not some lame ass, one-dimensional rendering of just a city.

 

I became very good at driving in IV, but just because I mastered it enough to do anything the game asked of me is NOT the same thing as it being fun. I can probably master pulling my fingernails out with a needle-nose pliers if I really had the urge, but it doesn't mean I would find it fun. Nor does it mean I suck at the art of pulling out fingernails just because I don't want to pull out my own. Likewise, being good or bad at IV's lackluster, obnoxiously restrictive driving is irrelevant to liking or disliking it.

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.Bach
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#98

Posted 4 weeks ago

Blah blah blah

At this point it's hard to take you seriously. Your triggered comments and taking your own opinions as fact completely invalidate whatever you say. I wouldn't even bother commenting if I was in your place. And I see you're still going at name calling with that "snore" stuff. I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet.

Anyway, I already gave my opinion in the subject. No need to do it twice.

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ChiroVette
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#99

Posted 4 weeks ago Edited by ChiroVette, 4 weeks ago.

 

Blah blah blah

At this point it's hard to take you seriously. Your triggered comments and taking your own opinions as fact completely invalidate whatever you say. I wouldn't even bother commenting if I was in your place. And I see you're still going at name calling with that "snore" stuff. I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet.

Anyway, I already gave my opinion in the subject. No need to do it twice.

 

 
Your entire post can be boiled down to you have no valid counter to my position, so you deflect by responding about how you can't be bothered to respond in an effort to deflect from the fact that my point is correct. Everyone has their tastes in games. I NEVER once attacked the position of anyone who says they prefer IV (or any of its elements) over V. But people like the person I was responding to just LOVE to criticize the opinions of others who don't agree. Take the driving, for instance. Instead of admitting they simply like IV's better and acknowledging we like V better, they have to disparage the gamers who disagree.
 
And I can prove it, too: Notice that I NEVER responded to or criticized your post, when you said:
 
 

I would take GTA IV's driving mechanics over V's any day.

 
Now I don't agree with that. And I would happily discuss it with you. But I wouldn't mock your opinions the way that BigDtoyboy and others mock ours, by insulting our skills based on our tastes, knowing NOTHING about how skilled we really are.

Edit: For example, Am Shaegar gave reasons why he doesn't like IV's driving and prefers V. But, of course, an angry IV defender has to say things like this in response:
 

To me that just sounds like you are a bad driver.


Now, he could have just said, "Cool, we disagree, we like different things." But instead, chose to attack the fellow player rather than accepting our differences. So who is the one taking their own opinions about Snore IV as fact?
 
By the way, on a little side note: When I call it "Snore" I am mocking a game, an inanimate object. NOT attacking or disparaging a person or forum member. There are no forum rules against me poking fun at a "game" only against insulting people. That is why I have NEVER been banned, nor do I have any open warnings on my account. Because unlike many IV fans here, I do not insult people. If you are so sensitive that me mocking a game offends you, that isn't my problem.


.Bach
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#100

Posted 4 weeks ago

Dude, are you kidding me? I can tell from miles away that what BigDtoyboy wrote is a simple joke. Did you really just write a wall of text because of a simple joke? You need to stop taking everything people say about V so seriously. Like, really?

Also, you can try to justify that "snore" stuff all you want, it's not going to change the fact that you're saying insults and acting like a kid. Again, if I was in your place I'd take some time off internet and relax.
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ChiroVette
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#101

Posted 4 weeks ago Edited by ChiroVette, 4 weeks ago.

Dude, are you kidding me? I can tell from miles away that what BigDtoyboy wrote is a simple joke. Did you really just write a wall of text because of a simple joke? You need to stop taking everything people say about V so seriously. Like, really?


Okay, first off, if you consider THREE small paragraphs a wall of text, then you have a really bizarre definition of that term. By the way, I had that answer all queued up because I KNEW you would try and accuse me of a wall of text, when my response was not that long at all.

Second, I didn't see a smiley in BigDtoyboy's post. There was no "J/K" or "just kidding" in his response, and given the blatant hostility of IV Fans in this forum to ANY discourse about how V is a much better game OR any criticism of IV at all, it is perfectly reasonable to take his post at face value. I am not a mind reader.

 

Also, you can try to justify that "snore" stuff all you want, it's not going to change the fact that you're saying insults and acting like a kid.


Not justifying anything. IV is an inanimate object, a "thing" not a person. I believe that IV is SO BORING that "Snore" is a legitimate commentary about the quality of that piss-poor offering masquerading as a GTA game. I am NOT insulting anyone. Sounds like you are a little sensitive. If you want to "attack" V, call it names, I could honestly care less. Then again, unlike you, I am obviously secure in my tastes and opinions.
 

Again, if I was in your place I'd take some time off internet and relax.


Again, I am perfectly relaxed. Your attempts to ascribe undue emotion to my using this forum for my own entertainment by swatting at people like you, are transparently intellectually dishonest. I am here because I enjoy talking about V. Playing Whack-A-Butthurt-IV-Fan with the likes of you is just a fun diversion. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

If anyone needs to relax, its you. You still feel the need to DEFEND and don your miniskirt and cheerleader pom-poms for a 10 year old game!

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SpaceJelloYT
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#102

Posted 4 weeks ago

Note: Can we please stop flaming?


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#103

Posted 4 weeks ago

IV's physics needed some work, but I sure as hell enjoyed driving far more than I do (well, did) in GTA:V.


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#104

Posted 4 weeks ago

I miss IV's handling so much... It was not perfect on some of the cars, such as Cavalcade.But it was really fun to drive any truck/bus or sedan(especially PMP600 or DF8-90, not sure they deleted them in V).Sometimes I still play IV just for driving.It was the best for keyboard driving by far.

 

On the other hand, V is so childish and feels like NFS.(It should have been like Midnight Club at least, not NFS!).You dont feel the speed, it's just a way of moving from somewhere to somewhere, it's not a fun activity unlike IV.

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Racecarlock
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#105

Posted 4 weeks ago

I really hate it when someone who complains about GTA IV's physics gets accused of being a bad driver. First of all, they're not realistic! Maybe in comparison to the 3d era, but not to any sim I could name. In real life, people can drift cars without losing control most of the time. In real life, cars don't behave like they're hydroplaning on completely dry road.

 

You don't want to acknowledge GTA IV's inherently flawed driving physics, so you accuse the people who don't like them of being bad at driving because you don't have any real arguments, so a cheap ass "Git gud" retort is all you have.

 

GTA V didn't get it perfect either, in that game it feels like every car had it's suspension tuned to compete in the WEC, but it was still fun. GTA IV was fun when you wanted extra slidey drifting, and sucked for every other kind of driving because you had to constantly fight the stupidly high oversteer of the cars and the apparent invisible ice on the roads at all times. The only cars in real life that drive like that are f1 cars from the 50's, and cars from 2008 definitely have more modern suspensions than a lotus 49.

 

You can use the "You just weren't SKILLED enough" argument all you want, but at the end of the day, not only were the physics unrealistic to a degree, but they caused trouble for a lot of people. I got used to them. I even got used to drifting with them. But that doesn't mean they're good. And "Git gud" holds no water as an argument, okay? This is a friggin' video game people play for fun, not a military aptitude test. Stop being an elitist prick.

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ChiroVette
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#106

Posted 4 weeks ago Edited by ChiroVette, 4 weeks ago.

So many things about this post I agree with so let's break it down:

 

I really hate it when someone who complains about GTA IV's physics gets accused of being a bad driver.


Fanboyism, pure and simple. I will say, though, that there are definitely some people who don't like what they aren't good at and were never able to get a handle on the more fastidious physics of IV's driving. But I never had a problem excelling at driving in that game, even though I haven't played it in over ten years.

I will say that out of sheer boredom I downloaded the Episodes on Steam for like 5 bucks lol. And all over again, I was struck by how horrible the driving is on that game engine. Though admittedly, I have only played some of TLaD so far. But I can say this: The driving is absolutely no fun at all. BUT it is not difficult and I am not having a problem with it. While I don't remember the specifics of IV's driving, and assume some tweaks were made for the Episodes, I am guessing it is similar across the board. The one saving grace I remember about IV's driving AND I see the same is true for TLaD at least, is that the physics is so God awful that the AI actually has more trouble with it than the player does! lol

Using me as an example, yesterday I passed 10 of the 12 bike races first try, and used the Seagull reward bike to do it. The other two races that initially gave me a little trouble were the ones on sand by the water, but once I ditched the Innovation bike and snagged a Bati 800, I beat them both first try. Like I said, the driving sucks, but at least Rockstar had the decency to make sure the AI sucks worse than most players in both the races and all the missions where you have to drive and shoot against AI or get away from them. Even the cops can't drive for sh*t in the game, so it makes evading wanted levels easy. Boring as f*ck, but easy.

Edit: In fact, from this standpoint, the driving missions in V are actually HARDER! As are the races. Certainly out driving the cops, while not "hard" is much, much harder in V than in IV or TLaD. In V, the cops actually can drive, and drive well. And I believe this is a function of the fact that the driving is so easy, so the AI ends up having an easy time against you. This may also explain, in part, why cops are so easily able to ram you and fly at you in games like GTA III. Because the handling is much better overall, so the AI can also drive straighter, too. Though lol in GTA III the AI also cheats, but that is another conversation.

 

 

First of all, they're not realistic!

No, they are absolutely not realistic. But, let's be honest for a second: Even though they aren't realistic, clearly realism was absolutely Rockstar's intent. Yes, they failed miserably, both in making the driving fun and in making it realistic. But in Rockstar's defense, GTA is a game that has a crazy amount of things to do (well, not IV, but most GTA games). So my theory is that driving is only meant to be a part of the entirety of the game, not the whole ball of wax. Unlike racing SIMs like Gran Turismo and Forza, where driving is close to 100% of the game, at least the gameplay part of the game, Rockstar's attempt at realism was all that can reasonably be expected from them, since they had other things to concentrate on, like making a sandbox, missions, on foot, weapons, side activities, collectibles, and story. As empty and lifeless as GTA IV is as a sandbox game compared to other GTA games, even IV still has a huge amount of other stuff besides driving.

So what this means to us is that unlike the creators of racing SIM's, whose titles live and die by their precision realism, GTA games cannot have their devs spend the kind of crazy time on the driving physics as they have to split their coding and dev time out into a huge sandbox. So even though you are essentially correct that IV's driving isn't realistic, it was meant to be, at least as realistic as ROckstar could make the game without focusing all their attention on only that gameplay element. At least that's my hypothesis anyway.

Houser even sort of confirmed this in interviews back in '08, when he proclaimed that IV's driving was supposed to be realistic, and I take him at his word.
 

Maybe in comparison to the 3d era, but not to any sim I could name. In real life, people can drift cars without losing control most of the time. In real life, cars don't behave like they're hydroplaning on completely dry road.


Definitely! And, yes, as I said above, realism in comparison to the 3D era is what I am sure Houser meant and what the devs were trying to accomplish. One more thing on the driving. The inherent problems with IV and the Episodes is not just the constant hydroplaning like both roads and tires were collectively made of ice. That can be compensated for by just driving a lot slower, which I was able to do and I did just fine in IV ten years ago, and why I am doing well in TLaD now.

But the problems go deeper than "slidey cars." Again, I don't remember IV as well, but I can tell you that, not only are the cars in TLaD prone to act like an air hockey puck if you're not careful, but they also feel really "spongy." I am not sure if that's the right word for it, but the turning and the lane changing feel oddly unresponsive. Which is a strange contradiction of itself in a way, since sliding would seem to make the cars want to turn. Too much, in fact, which is why we call it sliding.

But what I am talking about now is that once you adapt to the slidey cars and can stop falling victim to hydroplaning all over the road like an ice skater with no edge on his blades, you realize that the cars don't even really turn very well at lower speeds. That is something I didn't remember from IV, but I am finding with the bikes in TLaD, as well as the cars. With the bike races, I am noticing that when I drive slow enough to not slide all over the place, the bikes don't quite respond the way I would expect them to for turns. They seem to either slide all over the place when going too fast, or are poorly responsive to turns when going slower. Like I said, they feel "spongy" to me. That's the only way I can think to describe them.

The way I was able to easily beat all the bike races was to not try to brake during turns, and instead brake early, and I just slowed down. I also find myself compensating for the spongy feeling of turns by using the handbrake lightly and initiating a turn just a little sooner than I would for games with better driving physics than this.

In some of the races, I found them easy enough where I felt plenty confident, so I wanted to see how the AI was able to handle the bikes. So I would let them in front of me and hang a little behind the pack so I could watch. Sure enough, they were either sliding all over the road, crashing into one another or AI traffic, slamming into walls or other obstacles, over-steering, or completely missing turns that it kind of looked like the riders were trying to make but couldn't quite get the bikes to respond properly. Even letting them ahead to watch them drive, beating them was still easy once I decided to reclaim 1st place.
 

You don't want to acknowledge GTA IV's inherently flawed driving physics, so you accuse the people who don't like them of being bad at driving because you don't have any real arguments, so a cheap ass "Git gud" retort is all you have.


This has been a staple of IV fanboys for over 10 years now. Attack people who don't like something without knowing anything about their skill level. Just assume they must suck and that is the basis of all complaints.

You know what? I may not be the best. I am sure if I tried to compete online, there would be plenty of way better drivers in both IV and TLaD. But I am pretty good and had no trouble back then or now in keeping my wheels on the ground and my cars/bikes going in a straight line.
 

GTA V didn't get it perfect either, in that game it feels like every car had it's suspension tuned to compete in the WEC, but it was still fun. GTA IV was fun when you wanted extra slidey drifting, and sucked for every other kind of driving because you had to constantly fight the stupidly high oversteer of the cars and the apparent invisible ice on the roads at all times. The only cars in real life that drive like that are f1 cars from the 50's, and cars from 2008 definitely have more modern suspensions than a lotus 49.


True. But as I said above, defending Rockstar's coding for IV's driving, the same applies here. I love the driving in V. NOT because it is perfect. Clearly it isn't. But V is an incredibly jam-packed, awesome, immersive, amazing sandbox. A sandbox where driving is only one, small part of the overall game. TO me, the BEST driving was in Midnight Club 2 and 3. But that is personal taste as I am NOT a realism junkie anyway. Also, other than some customizing, driving is the whole thing in Midnight Club.
 

You can use the "You just weren't SKILLED enough" argument all you want, but at the end of the day, not only were the physics unrealistic to a degree, but they caused trouble for a lot of people. I got used to them. I even got used to drifting with them. But that doesn't mean they're good. And "Git gud" holds no water as an argument, okay? This is a friggin' video game people play for fun, not a military aptitude test. Stop being an elitist prick.


My explanation for the driving in IV (and so far the Episodes) is that it isn't very hard to get used to and be good at, BUT it also isn't fun. To me, that's IV's driving in a nutshell. "Not hard, but also no fun at all."

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