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Rockstar do WHAT? (Reset character progress/Bannings)

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Prenihility
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#1

Posted 4 days ago Edited by Prenihility, 4 days ago.

So, i had an event scheduled for my Crew in GTAO and a Crew member informed me he quit the game. We're still cool nothing happened between us; although that was kind of obvious since he didn't abruptly unfriend me or anything. He just notified me that he basically lost his sh*t and quit the game. We even had a little talk while playing the other day about how it's sad that Rockstar don't even have control over their own game. Which I always DO remind people of even here on the forums. It is a very sad thing for such a wealthy and massive developer.

 

Anyway. Apparently, he got modded money and got banned until February 11th. And before anyone makes assumptions or jumps to conclusions... i know this guy. He's a mature player. He's not a kiddy asking for money from modders. The guy literally sat in a lobby and received modded money. And he did SPEND money after, but who the hell knows any better? He didn't purchase a Yacht. He just continued playing the game as normal. Then they temp ban him and RESET HIS CHARACTER PROGRESS that we've been working so hard to raise!?

 

These people focus to premeditatedly make this game difficult to accumulate in-game currency for. And they have an incredibly, shockingly, PATHETIC level of control over their own game. Cheaters that DESTROY the GTA O experience get a slap on the wrist as a consequence for their actions. A guy minding his own business and gaining modded cash, then playing the game as he normally did; then gets banned?

 

Every single time i log into this game, i find cheaters who have more control and a bigger impact on the game than Rockstar Games do. And this happens? I've been gaming online for many years, and i've seen horrible banning policies. I've seen neglect towards game communities by not showing proper consequences for cheating. And we've all seen developers purposefully pushing towards microtrans. But i've never seen all of these things together.

 

I'm still going to try and do something for my crew member and open a Support Ticket about this. He didn't even bother because he completely lost his sh*t. I am opening up a Ban Appeal on his behalf to get this sorted. I'm just writing this because I had NO idea they did this. And i'm shocked that they have this kind of policy in a game where cheaters run rampant. Instead of banning these f*ckING TARDS. PERMANENTLY.

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elfoam
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#2

Posted 4 days ago

They have an autoban script in place.. If it detects modded money it'll either correct the balance or reset your character, they don't / can't control it and you can't either. It's just the risk you take when playing this game :S


Prenihility
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#3

Posted 4 days ago

I got a generic, automated response to a support ticket i submitted about this literally a minute after it was submitted. What can i do?!

 

A REALLY AWESOME player joined my crew. And this just happened. And he got BANNED. And he refuses to play now because of this.

 

WTF?!


Ghoffman9
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#4

Posted 4 days ago Edited by Ghoffman9, 4 days ago.

This is why when I received modded money back in the day on the Xbox 360 I wasted no time creating a ticket and notifying them what occurred and that my receiving of the money was not something I asked for nor wanted and asked them to remove it. I anticipated something like this could happen through no fault of my own if I just let it be, so I reached out to Rockstar in order to prevent them from even making the f*ck up in the first place. I even specified the amount I was given.

 

This story goes to show I was wise in taking such action.

 

This would not be the first time a player was punished for receiving modded money against their will, its been happening for years. No offense against your friend, with that knowledge he should have known better than to sit on his hands with that. Rockstar is lazy and gives two sh*ts about their consumers so you would be crazy not to file a ticket. You gotta assume they would do the worst if you do nothing yourself and take action.

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elfoam
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#5

Posted 4 days ago Edited by elfoam, 4 days ago.

Notifying them of modded money now days makes no difference. You get an automated response that says don't worry about it the auto detect will take care of it :) and it might.. but it might reset you. At least sending the ticket gives you some evidence that you tried to tell them.. Problem is you still have no way of contacting them if you do get reset after the ticket. They don't answer the phone anymore and there's no live humans at support.

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Locce
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#6

Posted 4 days ago Edited by Locce, 4 days ago.

That's Rockstar for you. In 2017 they threw the rulebook out of the window and decided to really, really, really go after players' money even at the cost of increasing the dark figure of false positives when it comes to their never-quite-working anti-cheat module. There was even a quite lengthy thread in these forums that seems to have disappeared by now where lots of players talked about their experiences with the Rockstar support when at the end of August that module began "correcting" the accounts of people who never had any modded money to begin with by anything from a couple of $100k to more than $100 million while a the same time in many cases only deducing a small percentage of actual modded money from affected accounts - who in some cases tried to get the modded money manually removed, but the support began refusing such requests a couple of months before that (because the anti-cheat would do that automatically which it actually does very, very unreliably if that is not quite clear by now).

Officially it is stated that the system would never take money gained from Shark Cards and only ban people if they spend more money than their legit balance allows. According to witnesses both these statements are patently false.

It was also at that time that Rockstar closed their telephone support lines and began to cease any real support as soon as a ticket mentioned certain trigger phrases like "modded money" or "account balance". Instead, you get an automated response and your ticket is closed without anybody ever addressing your concern.

I quit the game after they took $12.3 mil from me and gave me the bot-answer treatment for months and dozens of tickets in German and in English, and in light of these experiences I would advise everybody to never, under no circumstances, buy even the smallest Shark Card or any other Rockstar product until they learn the lesson that the player is the customer and not a product for the benefit of company shareholders. They really do not deserve any better by now.

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#7

Posted 4 days ago

I'd be interested to know what Trading Standards or any other relevant 'consumer protection' agencies would have to say, if the buyer makes the argument "the GTA V game was bought for the sole purpose of playing GTA Online, as is written on the case "includes Grand Theft Auto Online" and now I've been banned without any reason from the company and no appeals process. "

 

I'd be almost sure there's some sort of clauses in the Sales of Goods Act or Consumer Rights Act which govern it - especially so considering money can be spent in-game after having made the initial purchase. 

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III-Ari-III
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#8

Posted 4 days ago

These types of mistakes are odd but they come from time to time.. they affect the 1% of the playerbase as it is not that common to occur.. what most of the time happens is that rockstar corrects the money and nothing more.


Ghoffman9
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#9

Posted 4 days ago

That's Rockstar for you. In 2017 they threw the rulebook out of the window and decided to really, really, really go after players' money even at the cost of increasing the dark figure of false positives when it comes to their never-quite-working anti-cheat module. There was even a quite lengthy thread in these forums that seems to have disappeared by now where lots of players talked about their experiences with the Rockstar support when at the end of August that module began "correcting" the accounts of people who never had any modded money to begin with by anything from a couple of $100k to more than $100 million while a the same time in many cases only deducing a small percentage of actual modded money from affected accounts - who in some cases tried to get the modded money manually removed, but the support began refusing such requests a couple of months before that (because the anti-cheat would do that automatically which it actually does very, very unreliably if that is not quite clear by now).

Officially it is stated that the system would never take money gained from Shark Cards and only ban people if they spend more money than their legit balance allows. According to witnesses both these statements are patently false.

It was also at that time that Rockstar closed their telephone support lines and began to cease any real support as soon as a ticket mentioned certain trigger phrases like "modded money" or "account balance". Instead, you get an automated response and your ticket is closed without anybody ever addressing your concern.

I quit the game after they took $12.3 mil from me and gave me the bot-answer treatment for months and dozens of tickets in German and in English, and in light of these experiences I would advise everybody to never, under no circumstances, buy even the smallest Shark Card or any other Rockstar product until they learn the lesson that the player is the customer and not a product for the benefit of company shareholders. They really do not deserve any better by now.

Yet people always say Rockstar needs the money to maintain the game. To maintain what?

Their support is non-existent. Their servers are still absolute sh*t with disconnects happening regularly. They create half-baked content that takes little money, time, and effort to create. (Doomsday was the only exception).

Where is the money going? Straight to the stockholders thats where its going.

 

Its because of this is why I cannot comprehend why there are still those out there kissing their asses and making excuses for them for everything they do or don't do. I honestly question whether they're shills in disguise sometimes since their beliefs so often are anti-consumer despite supposedly being one.

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D T
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#10

Posted 4 days ago Edited by D T, 4 days ago.

The internet is too busy crying about EA to even notice Rockstar bans accounts to increase shark card sales. gg

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Quinn_flower
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#11

Posted 4 days ago

That's r* for ya. Can't restore legit progress tell you to start over and say "hey least you still have your money"

flexcreator
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#12

Posted 4 days ago

And he did SPEND money after, but who the hell knows any better?

 

As Ghoffman9 mentioned, it's better to make a ticket once you got the money. I recieved modded money myself and always make a support ticket asking to remove them. Never recieved a ban.

 

It's a shame that legit players get banned because of others, but it's nothing new - Rockstar is doing it for years.

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FuturePastNow
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#13

Posted 4 days ago

 


 

As Ghoffman9 mentioned, it's better to make a ticket once you got the money. I recieved modded money myself and always make a support ticket asking to remove them. Never recieved a ban.

 

It's a shame that legit players get banned because of others, but it's nothing new - Rockstar is doing it for years.

 

Yeah, but they didn't start wiping and resetting all of the player's progress until a year ago.

 

I suppose that's understandable in extreme cases given the prevalence of modded accounts, but it's really excessive to do it to every single person who gets banned, particularly since no automated system is 100% accurate.


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#14

Posted 4 days ago

Yeah, that happened often (even tho i didn't hear about it recently). There was a topic about unjustified bans somewhere around here, i though that you could find some help there, but i failed to find it.


CarimboHanky
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#15

Posted 4 days ago

I'd be interested to know what Trading Standards or any other relevant 'consumer protection' agencies would have to say, if the buyer makes the argument "the GTA V game was bought for the sole purpose of playing GTA Online, as is written on the case "includes Grand Theft Auto Online" and now I've been banned without any reason from the company and no appeals process. "
 
I'd be almost sure there's some sort of clauses in the Sales of Goods Act or Consumer Rights Act which govern it - especially so considering money can be spent in-game after having made the initial purchase. 

mmm R*/TakeTwo are covered from any of this type of claims, i mean we all "signed" and agreed to their terms before entering gtao.

This document constitutes an agreement (the Agreement) between you and the United States company Rockstar Games, Inc., its parents, subsidiaries, and affiliates, (the Company, we, us, and our) that governs the relationship between you and the Company with respect to your use of the Online Services. The Company provides access to the Online Services and any related services subject to your compliance with this Agreement...

...The Company may also impose limits on certain features and services or restrict your access to parts or all of the Online Services without notice or liability...

...you further agree that Licensor may, in its sole discretion, restrict your access to your available VC(virtual currency) and VG(virtual goods) in your User Account or terminate or suspend your User Account and your rights to any VC, VG, and other items associated with your User Account.

http://www.rockstargames.com/legal


SkylineGTRFreak
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#16

Posted 4 days ago

Spoiler
mmm R*/TakeTwo are covered from any of this type of claims, i mean we all "signed" and agreed to their terms before entering gtao.

 

Pretty much every company does this, yet not everything in their EULA is "true" or automatically right and can't be fought against as a consumer. They just do this to make consumers think that they have everything covered beforehand, so you don't even try to make a case. Some statements in EULAs can be direct violations of state laws and are thus no true orders you gotta follow.

 

Just to make a very clear example:

A company writes: By agreeing with your Terms and Conditions, you give us the right to take ownership of your house and sell your wife to china.

 

Like I said, very extreme example that violates a multitude of laws. But like I said, even the small stuff that's in these texts is often negligible. It's simply there as deterrent.

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CarimboHanky
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#17

Posted 4 days ago

Some statements in EULAs can be direct violations of state laws and are thus no true orders you gotta follow.
 

our agreement with R*/TakeTwo is constructed around the laws of the state of new york, for the sake of the argument, can you name which parts of our EULA/ToS are a direct violation of the state laws?

Just to make a very clear example:
A company writes: By agreeing with your Terms and Conditions, you give us the right to take ownership of your house and sell your wife to china.
 

in this case i'd take to court to try keep my house 😂😂

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#18

Posted 4 days ago

 There was even a quite lengthy thread in these forums that seems to have disappeared by now where lots of players talked about their experiences with the Rockstar support when at the end of August that module began "correcting" the accounts of people who never had any modded money to begin with by anything from a couple of $100k to more than $100 million while a the same time in many cases only deducing a small percentage of actual modded money from affected accounts - who in some cases tried to get the modded money manually removed, but the support began refusing such requests a couple of months before that (because the anti-cheat would do that automatically which it actually does very, very unreliably if that is not quite clear by now).

 

It's still there, this thread. 

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#19

Posted 4 days ago

This is why when I received modded money back in the day on the Xbox 360 I wasted no time creating a ticket and notifying them what occurred and that my receiving of the money was not something I asked for nor wanted and asked them to remove it. I anticipated something like this could happen through no fault of my own if I just let it be, so I reached out to Rockstar in order to prevent them from even making the f*ck up in the first place. I even specified the amount I was given.

 

 

This is what I would do if I received modded money. I've been fortunate enough to avoid it so far. Had someone try to drop money bags on me once, but was driving and managed to avoid them catching up with me - something of a surreal experience. But managed to disconnect before any landed on me or the game even saved. Whether the support ticket actually would help your case I can't say for certain but I figure it couldn't hurt to cover yourself.

 

I'd be interested to know what Trading Standards or any other relevant 'consumer protection' agencies would have to say, if the buyer makes the argument "the GTA V game was bought for the sole purpose of playing GTA Online, as is written on the case "includes Grand Theft Auto Online" and now I've been banned without any reason from the company and no appeals process. "

 

I'd be almost sure there's some sort of clauses in the Sales of Goods Act or Consumer Rights Act which govern it - especially so considering money can be spent in-game after having made the initial purchase. 

 

You'd hope there'd be something there, I'd imagine stuff like this is a very murky legal quagmire. I'd imagine the T&Cs though will say they reserve the right to ban you at their discretion etc. And that would probably be inline rather than a purchase for a club membership fee - were you could similarly be banned for bad behavior and forfeit any joining fee etc.

 

What's more dodgy is where bans are implemented by automated algorithms and there isn't a real person who can say exactly why for each case. We know there's been a faulty ban wave in the past. Given R* must know by now, even if they won't admit it, cheaters can mess with other players stats and money, they certainly shouldn't be doing automated character resets - those should be manually reviewed. I think most people could live with a false temporary ban for a month that was appeal-able - the volume of players there has to be some level of automation or it would be unmanageable. However I think they need to re-think their process here.


SkylineGTRFreak
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#20

Posted 4 days ago

 

Some statements in EULAs can be direct violations of state laws and are thus no true orders you gotta follow.
 

our agreement with R*/TakeTwo is constructed around the laws of the state of new york, for the sake of the argument, can you name which parts of our EULA/ToS are a direct violation of the state laws?

Just to make a very clear example:
A company writes: By agreeing with your Terms and Conditions, you give us the right to take ownership of your house and sell your wife to china.
 

in this case i'd take to court to try keep my house

 

 

The hell do I know? I am just saying that throwing out EULAs & ToS like they're unfailable and written in stone is always debatable, because they simply aren't. I can't be bothered to check Rockstars ToS and NY state laws, but if you went to look up every paragraph I'm pretty sure you would find conflicting statements in there. Almost every company has them. And if you got a good lawyer, he could probably pull one or more tricks out of his sleeve to find some ruling that overthrows (parts of) Rockstar's/T2's Eula.

 

Then again, try to get a better lawyer than a multi billion dollar company... heh


elfoam
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#21

Posted 4 days ago

Do you guys have any group in the states that protects consumers? we have one in Australia that would rip up Rockstars Eula and sh*t on it, then make them pay the guy a million bucks lol. They have destroyed so many companies. Pretty great to have them around.

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CarimboHanky
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#22

Posted 4 days ago

Do you guys have any group in the states that protects consumers? we have one in Australia that would rip up Rockstars Eula and sh*t on it, then make them pay the guy a million bucks lol. They have destroyed so many companies. Pretty great to have them around.

yes, pretty much every state has it own consumer affairs office.

https://www.usa.gov/state-consumer

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#23

Posted 4 days ago

^ I doubt they would help or care at all about a character getting banned on a game tbh.
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Locce
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#24

Posted 4 days ago

 

That's Rockstar for you. In 2017 they threw the rulebook out of the window and decided to really, really, really go after players' money even at the cost of increasing the dark figure of false positives when it comes to their never-quite-working anti-cheat module. There was even a quite lengthy thread in these forums that seems to have disappeared by now where lots of players talked about their experiences with the Rockstar support when at the end of August that module began "correcting" the accounts of people who never had any modded money to begin with by anything from a couple of $100k to more than $100 million while a the same time in many cases only deducing a small percentage of actual modded money from affected accounts - who in some cases tried to get the modded money manually removed, but the support began refusing such requests a couple of months before that (because the anti-cheat would do that automatically which it actually does very, very unreliably if that is not quite clear by now).
Officially it is stated that the system would never take money gained from Shark Cards and only ban people if they spend more money than their legit balance allows. According to witnesses both these statements are patently false.
It was also at that time that Rockstar closed their telephone support lines and began to cease any real support as soon as a ticket mentioned certain trigger phrases like "modded money" or "account balance". Instead, you get an automated response and your ticket is closed without anybody ever addressing your concern.
I quit the game after they took $12.3 mil from me and gave me the bot-answer treatment for months and dozens of tickets in German and in English, and in light of these experiences I would advise everybody to never, under no circumstances, buy even the smallest Shark Card or any other Rockstar product until they learn the lesson that the player is the customer and not a product for the benefit of company shareholders. They really do not deserve any better by now.

Yet people always say Rockstar needs the money to maintain the game. To maintain what?
Their support is non-existent. Their servers are still absolute sh*t with disconnects happening regularly. They create half-baked content that takes little money, time, and effort to create. (Doomsday was the only exception).
Where is the money going? Straight to the stockholders thats where its going.
 
Its because of this is why I cannot comprehend why there are still those out there kissing their asses and making excuses for them for everything they do or don't do. I honestly question whether they're shills in disguise sometimes since their beliefs so often are anti-consumer despite supposedly being one.

 

It is just a lie people want to believe. There are cases of developers where that is at least mostly true - for example MMOs that run on dedicated servers and get regular free original content updates - and even they do not squeeze nearly as hard as Rockstar does when GTA Online mainly runs on a peer-to-peer system, has probably the worst support of any game I have ever played long enough to need it - by now, it used to be decent, but with enough of a ticket history you can almost smell the interference from above that made it worse over time - communication is almost exclusively one-way, long existing bugs are hardly ever addressed and the updates at least partially consist of copy&paste or pre-made assets. You can spot the latter for example by looking for dripfeed vehicles that do not quite fit into the DLC theme and/or seem to be balanced for an outdated state of the game (like the Streiter who would have been a Huntley rival back in the day if it had been correctly classified as a SUV).

Given the evidence you have to be bad at math and reading to think they are a struggling studio just trying to make ends meet. I guess in many cases it is a severe case of the "sunk cost" fallacy: the players have already invested so much time, effort and money that it would feel like such a waste to leave the results of all that behind. Surely, Rockstar can not be that bad if that would mean that all these troubles were in vain. The result is somewhat similar to Stockholm Syndrome. In hindsight I am happy that their anti-cheat also stole money from me and that their support was that bad. It radically freed me from my attachment to a game that is steadily becoming worse.

 

It's still there, this thread.

Ah, thanks, I could not find it manually and the forum search trolled me by not giving any hits regarless of search term.

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Jenkiiii
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#25

Posted 4 days ago

If you receive modded money, know it's not actually yours, and don't feel comfortable about the potential consequences, then there's only one thing you can realistically do. Quit the game immediately, contact Rockstar support and tell them you're uncomfortable/unhappy about the situation.

 

The fact is most people put it to the back of their mind and carry on as normal in the hope that Rockstar won't notice and nothing will be done about it, and as the weeks pass by they think it's been forgotten and it was no big deal, until the next 'sweep' takes place, and then it hurts like crazy when you're punished, sometimes too harshly, for something you didn't even do.

 

You've got to own up to it and admit it, even when it's got nothing to do with you, otherwise you become an accomplice to the crime whether you like it or not. And robots don't reason, they just act.

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Locce
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#26

Posted 4 days ago Edited by Locce, 4 days ago.

If you receive modded money, know it's not actually yours, and don't feel comfortable about the potential consequences, then there's only one thing you can realistically do. Quit the game immediately, contact Rockstar support and tell them you're uncomfortable/unhappy about the situation.

 

The fact is most people put it to the back of their mind and carry on as normal in the hope that Rockstar won't notice and nothing will be done about it, and as the weeks pass by they think it's been forgotten and it was no big deal, until the next 'sweep' takes place, and then it hurts like crazy when you're punished, sometimes too harshly, for something you didn't even do.

 

You've got to own up to it and admit it, even when it's got nothing to do with you, otherwise you become an accomplice to the crime whether you like it or not. And robots don't reason, they just act.

 

There are two main problems with that logic:

  1. Telling support about getting modded money accomplishes hardly anything. If you first get an undeserved ban - and unless you spent more than your legitimate money it is undeserved even by their own definition - and then get very lucky and somebody actually reads your appeal ticket, that is basically the only case that might actually do something for you. They do not manually remove money anymore, you only get a standardised answer about automatic money removal and that is it, and they hardly ever react to complaints of people after their anti-cheat module did its thing. So, telling support is more like an unreliable insurance against a bad system than anything else.
  2. The amount of money the anti-cheat flags as modded money is only accidentally ever related to the amount of modded money you actually have. It could be that you have no modded money at all but it removes more than $12 mil as in my case, or it could be that you have around $80 mil in modded money and the system flags §2 mil as in another case I am aware of. That guy even asked support about the difference and got the reply that as far as they are concerned those remaining $78 mil are legitimately his. I leave it to you to guess which case actually hurts and who was accomplice in whose crime.

Edit: Oh, I just remembered another case. One player insisted on Rockstar support removing the modded money manually, because he did not want to rely on the anti-cheat. They eventually did so. Then, with the next wave of money removals the anti-cheat removed roughly the same amount again. He contacted support and they gave him back that money... only for the anti-cheat to take away that money again at the next opportunity. So, money granted by the support gets flagged as modded money (which would probably go quite a way to explaining my $12 mil deduction). It would be funny if it was not that infuriatingly stupid at the same time. ;)

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  • Jenkiiii

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#27

Posted 4 days ago

 

If you receive modded money, know it's not actually yours, and don't feel comfortable about the potential consequences, then there's only one thing you can realistically do. Quit the game immediately, contact Rockstar support and tell them you're uncomfortable/unhappy about the situation.

 

The fact is most people put it to the back of their mind and carry on as normal in the hope that Rockstar won't notice and nothing will be done about it, and as the weeks pass by they think it's been forgotten and it was no big deal, until the next 'sweep' takes place, and then it hurts like crazy when you're punished, sometimes too harshly, for something you didn't even do.

 

You've got to own up to it and admit it, even when it's got nothing to do with you, otherwise you become an accomplice to the crime whether you like it or not. And robots don't reason, they just act.

 

There are two main problems with that logic:

  1. Telling support about getting modded money accomplishes hardly anything. If you first get an undeserved ban - and unless you spent more than your legitimate money it is undeserved even by their own definition - and then get very lucky and somebody actually reads your appeal ticket, that is basically the only case that might actually do something for you. They do not manually remove money anymore, you only get a standardised answer about automatic money removal and that is it, and they hardly ever react to complaints of people after their anti-cheat module did its thing. So, telling support is more like an unreliable insurance against a bad system than anything else.
  2. The amount of money the anti-cheat flags as modded money is only accidentally ever related to the amount of modded money you actually have. It could be that you have no modded money at all but it removes more than $12 mil as in my case, or it could be that you have around $80 mil in modded money and the system flags §2 mil as in another case I am aware of. That guy even asked support about the difference and got the reply that as far as they are concerned those remaining $78 mil are legitimately his. I leave it to you to guess which case actually hurts and who was accomplice in whose crime.

 

 

I agree with what you say. It doesn't work properly and Rockstar don't pay proper attention to support tickets/requests, but if you don't flag issues like this then you will be at the mercy of their bots. You decide, but trusting their bots is precarious at best.

  • Locce and R3CON like this

Fireboy769
  • Fireboy769

    I only have a 2-Star Wanted Level? Are you serious?

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#28

Posted 4 days ago

I guezsed I must've been pretty lucky in the PS3 days, because I'll admit. I got a lot of modded money (unfortunately AFTER I transferred) one time and I decided to spend alot of it buying pretty much anything.

It got wiped the next time I logged onto the game. But I was allowed to keep my stuff.
  • Arrows to Athens likes this

Arrows to Athens
  • Arrows to Athens

    Far, far away...

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#29

Posted 4 days ago

Rockstar are actually the biggest protectors of the real cheaters and modders, EXCEPT for those who mod money.

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Xiled
  • Xiled

    The Truth

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#30

Posted 4 days ago

Game doesn't know the difference between legit, glitched, and modded money. And PC has a broken "anti-cheat" that has banned more legit players than those using mods.
  • Arrows to Athens likes this




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