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What do you guys think about this theory about Arthur Morgan (Credit Captain_pattoo)

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Heidi McCourt
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#1

Posted 3 weeks ago Edited by Spider-Vice, 3 weeks ago. changed font colour....

Alright, so i've been looking through the trailers for both RDR and RDR2 just to get super hyped for RDR2, and then i noticed something, Arthur isn't brought up AT ALL in RDR1 which gives me an idea and maybe some predictions. I think that Arthur might die at the end of RDR2 kind of like how John died at the end of RDR1 but maybe not from the feds killing him. I just think it's weird, you would think Arthur would also be hunted down by the BOI and John would be forced to hunt him down as well, but he doesn't have to. He had to hunt Dutch, Bill, and Javier, but not Arthur.. Which either means Arthur is already dead, already in jail, or he's fled the states and gone somewhere else like Mexico. Now, i doubt that he'd have fled to Mexico because John would have still been able to go into Mexico and hunt him down. So that leaves it to my other two theories, but i'm not sure on it. But enough of what i'm thinking about this.. What do you guys think?


Jason
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#2

Posted 3 weeks ago

You might very well be right but Arthur not being mentioned in RDR1 shouldn't (and likely doesn't) dictate what happens to him in RDR2. It's obvious that they didn't plan to do a prequel when it came to doing a sequel to the first Redemption but once they settled on a prequel they could either make the protagonist an established character from RDR1, which would limit how they could write him in RDR2, or make up somebody new who has connections to Dutch's gang, even if it means that you're playing as somebody who is never once mentioned in RDR1.

 

Basically, I wouldn't get too hung up on him not being mentioned in RDR1. There's a billion ways they could have his story end in RDR2 and we'll just have to wait and see.

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Bakamomo
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#3

Posted 3 weeks ago

Perhaps Marsten is the one who puts a bullet in him?


BUT THE BENZ
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#4

Posted 3 weeks ago

perhaps he rides off into the sunset....since, 'when the times comes you gotta run and don't look back'

"this" was over, maybe "this" was getting too hot for him, and maybe he saw no shame in just riding away from it all. and maybe dutch stayed and took over, and became leader etc

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Jimmy Darmody
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#5

Posted 3 weeks ago Edited by Jimmy Darmody, 3 weeks ago.

Javier and Bill were only a couple of members from Dutch's gang. There were probably half a dozen more who were never mentioned in RDR1 apart from Arthur. You see many of them in the trailers and the promotional screenshots (e.g. The native american dude, the alleged woman who belonged in the gang, etc). So, when you put it like this, the fact that they never mentioned Arthur may not mean anything at all. They didn't mention him the same way that they didn't mention a lot of other guys. 

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TwistedMedia
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#6

Posted 2 weeks ago

I don't believe that they'd make a follow up to a game with the exact same ending as the one before... that would be very lazy writing and almost ruin the legacy of RDR1.

 

My therory is that Arthur is actually a lawman undercover.

 

Think about it, that would be a good way to 'write him out' of any sequels as he wouldn't be part of the gang but also wouldn't be sought after by the law. I think this also could possibly explain the change in members of the gang between RDR1 and RDR2, as they'd possibly be killed off during the story.

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Dick Justice
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#7

Posted 2 weeks ago

My theory is that Arthur will do something redeeming at the end of the game that keeps him off Edgar Ross' list. In the end, he'll be seen more as a noble gunslinger rather than a violent outlaw. Each of the men that Ross had killed was seen as a criminal. If the public perception of Arthur Morgan is that he was a good man, then there is no reason for the BOI to have him killed.

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DexPac
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#8

Posted 2 weeks ago

Yeah, Arthur dying in the end is a theory that had popped up almost as soon as the latest trailer was released. The fact that it's the first place so many people's brains went to makes me think it's very unlikely to happen in game.

If it turns out he's a lawman undercover the whole time or redeems into a noble gunslinger than it really doesn't make sense why he isn't mentioned in Redemption. Why blackmail a washed up old outlaw into hunting Dutch and Co. when you've still Arthur Morgan out there to do the job?

Also how could Arthur possibly redeem himself enough in Edgar Ross' eyes if John living a peaceful life for years and then wiping out the remaining gang members still got him killed?

I still think Arthur's maybe not as big a part of Dutch's gang as we think he is. I posed the theory that he's only in the gang for a little more than the "tutorial section" and Arthur goes off to start his own makeshift crew after turning on Dutch.
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TwistedMedia
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#9

Posted 2 weeks ago

You make a good point about the need for John if Arthur was actively doing the job already.

 

In reality we know the reason he isn't mentioned in RDR1 is because they didn't plan to do a prequel and didn't want to re-use a character that we'd already seen, but I just can't seem to think how they'd justify it story-wise.

 

I think your theory may be correct that he doesn't stay with the gang for the duration of the story, and maybe it's something that happened after Arthur left that caught the attention of Edgar Ross, therefore Arthur "got away with it".

 

I can't see Dutch being a main enemy in RDR2 though, as we already know he survives :monocle:


SeniorDerp
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#10

Posted 2 weeks ago

There is no information that places Arthur in the Van Der Linde gang (although, there is information that says the opposite) thus no reason for John to have mentioned him in RDR


TwistedMedia
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#11

Posted 2 weeks ago

There is no information that places Arthur in the Van Der Linde gang (although, there is information that says the opposite) thus no reason for John to have mentioned him in RDR

 

"the story of outlaw Arthur Morgan and the Van der Linde gang as they rob, fight and steal their way across the vast and rugged heart of America in order to survive."

 

Whilst I agree that this doesn't categorically say that he's in the gang, I think it's pretty clear that he is.

As well as the dialogue in the trailer:

 

Dutch: "Do you have my back?"

Morgan: "Always, Dutch"

 

I'm curious to know what information there is to say the opposite?


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#12

Posted 2 weeks ago

."I'm curious to know what information there is to say the opposite?


The only leak so far that’s proven itself remotely accurate saying we “play as a gang leader named Arthur”. That wouldn’t make much sense if Arthur is the leader of the Van Der Linde gang.

Also, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying every word to the leak is 100% accurate but it has proven itself in more ways than any other leak thus far

SeniorDerp
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#13

Posted 2 weeks ago

Also, kind of funny the irony of the OPs name and the question presented. John never remembered who Heidi McCourt was even after the strange man told him about her
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TwistedMedia
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#14

Posted 2 weeks ago

Oh I forgot about that :lol:

 

Do you have the link to that? I'd like to read up on what else that leak could potentially give away.


SeniorDerp
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#15

Posted 2 weeks ago

I just google “RDR2 Arthur Morgan leak” brings up a bunch of stuff

It also says you acquire memebers such as John, Abigaile, ect. which to me means Arthur would have to have a seperate gang because how would the Van Der Linde gang acquire John, wouldn’t he be a member by default after Dutch took him in?

Perhaps Arthur is the reasoning behind the break up of Dutchs gang

Heidi McCourt
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#16

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by Heidi McCourt, 2 weeks ago.

 

."I'm curious to know what information there is to say the opposite?


The only leak so far that’s proven itself remotely accurate saying we “play as a gang leader named Arthur”. That wouldn’t make much sense if Arthur is the leader of the Van Der Linde gang.

Also, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying every word to the leak is 100% accurate but it has proven itself in more ways than any other leak thus far

 

Arthur could have his own gang just because a leaker said he's a leader of a gang doesn't mean he's automatically the leader of Dutch's gang maybe dutch's gang and Arthur's gang work together throughout the story. 


SeniorDerp
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#17

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by SeniorDerp, 2 weeks ago.

Arthur could have his own gang just because a leaker said he's a leader of a gang doesn't mean he's automatically the leader of Dutch's gang

I agree which is why I said that wouldn't make much sense. I don't think it's a secret that the Van Der Linde Gang is lead by Dutch Van Der Linde

 

 

Maybe dutch's gang and Arthur's gang work together throughout the story. 

Personally, I think this will be the case. Somewhere along the line Arthur and Dutch became/become friends

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Zello
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#18

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by Zello, 2 weeks ago.

Arthur is the one who won. At the end of RDR2 He will ride off into the sunset and never be heard from again.

There is also a theory that at the beginning of RDR1 when John gets on the train from Blackwater to Armadillo with the feds John had just returned from killing Arthur.
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Heidi McCourt
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#19

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by Heidi McCourt, 2 weeks ago.

Arthur is the one who won. At the end of RDR2 He will ride off into the sunset and never be heard from again.

There is also a theory that at the beginning of RDR1 when John gets on the train from Blackwater to Armadillo with the feds John had just returned from killing Arthur.

I really hope Arthur Rides off and "wins" I really like his character and would like to continue playing as him even when the story is finished. The second one is kind of off putting I mean anythings possible but that wouldn't be very redeeming for Arthur making the title Red Dead REDEMPTION pointless.


Heidi McCourt
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#20

Posted 2 weeks ago

Also, kind of funny the irony of the OPs name and the question presented. John never remembered who Heidi McCourt was even after the strange man told him about her

somehow i didnt see this but listen closely to what the strange man says after, "you forget far more important people in your life john." indicating that he's forgotten people that mattered to him during his life, possibly Arthur as well as Heidi. 

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RedDeadRenegade
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#21

Posted 2 weeks ago

 

Also, kind of funny the irony of the OPs name and the question presented. John never remembered who Heidi McCourt was even after the strange man told him about her

somehow i didnt see this but listen closely to what the strange man says after, "you forget far more important people in your life john." indicating that he's forgotten people that mattered to him during his life, possibly Arthur as well as Heidi. 

 

 

You've completely misunderstood that conversation. John asks if he knows the Stranger because he looks familiar (because he's either God or the Devil) because John remembers peoples faces pretty well, by his own admission. The Stranger mentions Heidi because she's a girl that Dutch shot during a robbery and asks John if he remembers her. He says no. Then the Stranger says, 'Why would you remember me then? You've forgotten far more important people then me.' The whole point of that exchange is to highlight something we often take for granted, that the victims of Dutch's and John's crimes weren't just nameless bystanders, but real people with lives and personalities of their own. If John can't even remember his own victims, then the Stranger is pointing out that it's futile for John to try and remember him. 

 

I find these Heidi Mcourt theories a bit ridiculous. The blonde woman in the second trailer can be seen riding with Dutch and Arthur in the first trailer, so she's clearly at least somewhat affiliated with Dutch's gang. So you're telling me that John doesn't remember the face or name of a woman that worked with his gang? Let alone the fact that Dutch blew her face off? Not to mention its only been five years since that happened in RDR, so it's not like it was that long ago. The blonde woman isn't Heidi Mcourt, I'd bet money on it. She's a new character, like Arthur. Not every character in RDR 2 needs to be a reference to the first game. Heidi is just some civilian that got shot during a robbery, nothing more, and nothing less. 

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Heidi McCourt
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#22

Posted 2 weeks ago

 

 

Also, kind of funny the irony of the OPs name and the question presented. John never remembered who Heidi McCourt was even after the strange man told him about her

somehow i didnt see this but listen closely to what the strange man says after, "you forget far more important people in your life john." indicating that he's forgotten people that mattered to him during his life, possibly Arthur as well as Heidi. 

 

 

You've completely misunderstood that conversation. John asks if he knows the Stranger because he looks familiar (because he's either God or the Devil) because John remembers peoples faces pretty well, by his own admission. The Stranger mentions Heidi because she's a girl that Dutch shot during a robbery and asks John if he remembers her. He says no. Then the Stranger says, 'Why would you remember me then? You've forgotten far more important people then me.' The whole point of that exchange is to highlight something we often take for granted, that the victims of Dutch's and John's crimes weren't just nameless bystanders, but real people with lives and personalities of their own. If John can't even remember his own victims, then the Stranger is pointing out that it's futile for John to try and remember him. 

 

I find these Heidi Mcourt theories a bit ridiculous. The blonde woman in the second trailer can be seen riding with Dutch and Arthur in the first trailer, so she's clearly at least somewhat affiliated with Dutch's gang. So you're telling me that John doesn't remember the face or name of a woman that worked with his gang? Let alone the fact that Dutch blew her face off? Not to mention its only been five years since that happened in RDR, so it's not like it was that long ago. The blonde woman isn't Heidi Mcourt, I'd bet money on it. She's a new character, like Arthur. Not every character in RDR 2 needs to be a reference to the first game. Heidi is just some civilian that got shot during a robbery, nothing more, and nothing less. 

 

That's very interesting I didn't see it like that, and I think your right now that you say it that way i might just have to change my name, lol. 





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