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Why did Salvatore Leone let CJ away with the Caligula Heist?

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Crimie
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#1

Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:12 PM

Something I dont understand about this scenario, I know Salvatore called him an eggplant and vowed to exact revenge, but how and why did CJ get away with this heist?

 

I havent played it in a while, but just wondering, is it something to do with the Forellis/Sindaccos and Ken Rosenberg? Salvatore afraid to go to war with Wu zi and the Triads? What made this so difficult to achieve? At least send a few deathsquads after CJ in freeroam

 

Seems like I am missing or forgetting some info here, we all know Salvatore is not a weak mob boss who would allow something like this to slide...


KingD19
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#2

Posted 04 December 2017 - 11:47 PM

I just replayed this game and completed it a couple weeks ago and its literally nothing at all no speculations or nothing in no dialogue after the phone call when he says he's killing cj and his family I wondered this too but my guess is that rock star didn't wanna make the game too long or something because its like soon as Mr. Leone gets off the phone with cj he forgets cj or anybody he associated with didn't exist anymore including himself

Helegad
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#3

Posted 04 December 2017 - 11:56 PM

They may have planned for random hitsquads to attack during gameplay like with casino debt but I can see how that would get annoying after a while. It would be cool if it was a set number of hit squads, all outfitted with deadlier and deadlier weapons, and made to come at you every few days until you've destroyed the last squad. That would work really well IMO.

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lil weasel
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#4

Posted 05 December 2017 - 06:38 AM

The Game is done, there is no reason to drag it on.
Unless you want to speculate, it may assumed that at some point in the future he did get his revenge.
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KnowDude
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#5

Posted 05 December 2017 - 06:51 AM Edited by KnowDude, 05 December 2017 - 06:52 AM.

The reason is that they couldn't have Salvatore and CJ going at each others throats in the game, since CJ is the protagonist and thus cannot die and Salvatore already appeared in GTA III, which is set after San Andreas, so he must survive the events of 1992. Maybe he hunted down CJ and his friends before returning to LC, or maybe he gave Toni Cipriani a secret task to kill CJ, Woozie and the others during his exile sometime between 1994 and 1998 (which is my favorite theory). It's only speculation at this point, since the 3D Universe will never be continued.

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Am Shaegar
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#6

Posted 05 December 2017 - 07:01 AM

Salvatore doesn't seem like the person who has any influence, or enough contacts in LV (or SA), to exact revenge of CJ's betrayal. Even his son Joey hasn't shown any interest of working with his father, or help him out to carry out the hit.

Its normal for the bosses to threaten, but they need men to carry out the hits. Who will take the risk? It's suicidal to even attempt, since by the end of the story, CJ becomes the most powerful man in SA.

 

I think he realized that it's better to concentrate on LC than worry about taking revenge.

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Evil empire
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#7

Posted 05 December 2017 - 07:12 PM

You can always imagine Salvatore is too busy with his rivalry against the Forellis and Sindaccos to attempt anything against CJ and the Triads.

 

Rockstar probably thought the game already has a good length of life and didn't find it necessary to add missions with the mafia families retaliating.


Official General
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#8

Posted 05 December 2017 - 08:14 PM

The Game is done, there is no reason to drag it on.
Unless you want to speculate, it may assumed that at some point in the future he did get his revenge.

 

LOL you're pretty much correct here.

 

As much as it's great to discuss such subjects with questions like these, at this stage they are pretty much pointless because the game's story is finished, no expansion was or will ever be made. The bottom line is that it's up to the player the interpret for themselves as to what might have happen thereafter the game's story. 

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sTaT11Cz
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#9

Posted 06 December 2017 - 01:52 AM

Salvatore did threaten CJ but they (Leone's) are too busy with the Forelli's and Sindacco's so he may have forgotten about CJ. My theory people! My theory..!


Jeansowaty
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#10

Posted 06 December 2017 - 12:47 PM Edited by Jeansowaty, 06 December 2017 - 12:50 PM.

...Salvatore is not a weak mob boss...

He is, though. During San Andreas, the Leones were probably the weakest of the three mafia families.

 

Apart from that, I think that Salvatore did have plans on tracking CJ down but seeing his rise to power in Los Santos and his trouble with the Forellis and the Sindaccos, he decided to leave it for a later moment. Carl was killed in 1993 by some leftover Balla gangbanger though, so the problem was gone. The Grove Street Families in the meantime rose to power even further, becoming one of the biggest West Coast crime syndicates as a result, which further put the Mafia into decline and Salvatore soon flew back to Liberty City.


Am Shaegar
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#11

Posted 06 December 2017 - 01:57 PM

Carl was killed in 1993 by some leftover Balla gangbanger.

:O
Uh? Really?
Is it possible for you to share the specifics about this findings, like some links to the source, or in-game code that clearly shows CJ was killed?
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Jeansowaty
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#12

Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:18 PM

 

Carl was killed in 1993 by some leftover Balla gangbanger.

:O
Uh? Really?
Is it possible for you to share the specifics about this findings, like some links to the source, or in-game code that clearly shows CJ was killed?

 

No no, it's just my personal opinion. I've been writing a '93 sequel to San Andreas :)

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Am Shaegar
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#13

Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:08 PM Edited by Am Shaegar, 06 December 2017 - 04:09 PM.

No no, it's just my personal opinion. I've been writing a '93 sequel to San Andreas :)


Oh, thank God. You really got me nervous there. Lol
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RobertLM78
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#14

Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:27 AM

Yes, the storyline is over, but it's still interesting to speculate.  I was just wondering about this myself a couple weeks ago, and even looked for a mod to add Salvatore as a random ped to 'get him before he got me', but gave up after not finding anything.  Still, odd how R* left that hanging.

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#15

Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:56 AM

It gives the illusion of the world moving on beyond the story. In previous games, the plot hits the brakes and you're left to play in limbo, aimlessly driving around and treating the city like one of those rugs with roads on you find in play rooms. With this particular instance, you get the feeling that there is a world at either end of the story we dont see or experience. We aren't shown what Salvatore had in store for CJ and it is left completely up to us to speculate on what happened. It's made tantilising because of course we aren't shown what came of Salvatore's threat come GTA III. Did he succeed? It's up to us.
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#16

Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:22 AM

It goes in my headcanon that Sal sent Toni to kill CJ. 

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Zello
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#17

Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:16 AM Edited by Zello, 07 December 2017 - 05:17 AM.

It goes in my headcanon that Sal sent Toni to kill CJ. 

But why did Toni have to go into hiding? LCS starts with him coming back to LC after being in hiding for a couple years.

 

if Toni Killed CJ for Salvatore. Salvatore would throw him a party


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#18

Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:20 AM

 

It goes in my headcanon that Sal sent Toni to kill CJ. 

But why did Toni have to go into hiding? LCS starts with him coming back to LC after being in hiding for a couple years.

 

if Toni Killed CJ for Salvatore. Salvatore would throw him a party

 

 

Maybe Salvatore did throw a party for Toni and then Sweet and Ceaser and Woozie and all those other guys CJ worked with were like "Yo there's this dude CJ robbed who's partying, maybe they were behind Toni's death?" and Salvatore is like "sh*t they're right, Toni go to France or Italy or whatever and hide for a few years and then come back after the guys who want to kill you find out about the internet and are distracted enough for you to come back safely."

Not verbatim like that but something along those lines.


Helegad
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#19

Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:04 AM

Toni went into hiding for killing a "made man". That's a Mafia term. If Carl was the implied hit, it probably would have said "OG".

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#20

Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:23 AM

Would the Mafia really refer to gangbangers as "OGs"? Even then, it's never said ingame that the hit Toni made was a mobster or anyone, it being a "made man" is only mentioned in supplementary materials like the back of the box, etc.

>made man is a Mafia term

Could it not also refer to someone who's got it made? By the end of San Andreas, CJ owns a sh*tton of properties, is filthy rich, helps run one of the biggest gangs in Los Santos, is a successful rapper's manager, etc. so he's pretty much got it made as far as accomplishments go.
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Evil empire
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#21

Posted 11 December 2017 - 11:05 AM

Many persons already mentioned it but Rockstar planned to add missions with the mafia retaliating and CJ making an alliance with Tommy Vercetti and they scrapped it away after a quarrel with Ray Liotta.

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BLADE_San_Andreas
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#22

Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:52 PM Edited by BLADE_San_Andreas, 16 December 2017 - 01:07 PM.

It's because he said his grandchildren are dead as well and cj doesnt have any grandchildren so he will probably kill him when cj is a grandpa


Veroder
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#23

Posted 16 December 2017 - 01:24 PM

 

 

Carl was killed in 1993 by some leftover Balla gangbanger.

:O
Uh? Really?
Is it possible for you to share the specifics about this findings, like some links to the source, or in-game code that clearly shows CJ was killed?

 

No no, it's just my personal opinion. I've been writing a '93 sequel to San Andreas :)

 

You should probably avoid posting fan ficition like that, it only creates confusion.
 

Many persons already mentioned it but Rockstar planned to add missions with the mafia retaliating and CJ making an alliance with Tommy Vercetti and they scrapped it away after a quarrel with Ray Liotta.

Sounds like a fan theory to me, I doubt there's any proof.
 

It's because he said his grandchildren are dead as well and cj doesnt have any grandchildren so he will probably kill him when cj is a grandpa

 Wow, this is some next level taking it literally sh*t.

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Jeansowaty
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#24

Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:53 PM

I wrote "I think" for a reason.


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#25

Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:58 PM

I mean, if you think about it, you could kill CJ at any age prior and his grandchildren would die by default because he wouldn't be able to make any...

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#26

Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:15 PM

Maybe Salvatore tried to kill Cj after the last mission ?


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#27

Posted 17 December 2017 - 06:00 PM

I wrote "I think" for a reason.

The way you wrote it makes it easy to misinterpret, that's all I'm saying.

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#28

Posted 17 December 2017 - 06:28 PM

Imagine if they added more storyline the game linked to this, What if Sal sends his right hand Toni Cipriani to San Andreasa to kil cj?

On his way Toni meets Claude and comes to know about whereabouts of cj. But toni fails to kill cj when tommy vercetti and his gang interferes to protect cj(as cj saved the life of ken rosenberg friend of tommy),

This leads to a huge gunfight between leone gang and vercetti gang where formr is defeated. Toni flees and hides for next 6 years thn he returns to liberty city in 1998 to sal.

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#29

Posted 20 December 2017 - 08:35 AM

I refuse to believe that CJ died at the hands of the Mafia. CJ is in good with the Triads, Grove Street, the Aztecas, Madd Dog etc. If any hit was to take place it would be bloody mess, and it would put Salvatore Leone in a bad situation.

And why would Toni Cipriani be the one to take the hit on CJ anyways? Since it was Salvatore Leone who had to fly over to LV himself, it's safe to assume that Toni Cipriani was in Liberty City the entire time. Why have him fly over from Liberty when there's already an established Mafia presence in the city? Even if the hit would likely have been unsuccessful I'm sure that Leone could have cut a deal with the other Mafia families as they had a stake in that casino as well.

If anyone killed CJ, it probably would have been a military hit. After all he did steal that Jetpack, and a fighter jet, and the green goo (among other things) without any consequence whatsoever. Or maybe he got caught up in more of Toreno's sh*t and got killed that way. Who's to say? Apart from the fact that it probably wasn't the Mafia.
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MARKUS.
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#30

Posted 22 December 2017 - 07:52 PM Edited by Markhosdangerous, 22 December 2017 - 07:55 PM.

the reason why Salvatore is there at the first place could be just to explain his further paranoia as seen on GTA 3 and on the next tittle LCS, nothing else.

 

- In a "storyline theory" maybe when Sal left LV he went sick, paranoid, and the Leones started to be weaker on LC because of a lack of firm leadership, leading to the events of LCS, and simply "Sal has more sh*t to worried about than a gangbanger" -

 

And why Toni would leave Liberty for killing CJ, if he is that big important gangster, if he leaves in Los Santos? 





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