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Dutch's Gang: Everything We Know Compilation

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RedDeadRenegade
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#1

Posted 03 December 2017 - 04:24 AM Edited by RedDeadRenegade, 07 December 2017 - 01:10 AM.

Dutch's Gang 

 

Now that it's widely known we'll be playing alongside Dutch's gang in RDR II, I thought it'd be a good idea to compile all the information we have about it from the first game. I recently replayed the game and wrote down any and all references to Dutch and his gang. I thought this might help us get some speculation going while we wait out this news drought. 

 

1. They've Never Been To New Austin- In RDR, John remarks to Bonnie that he and Dutch's gang never made it down to New Austin, but that they always wanted to, due to it's status as a mostly lawless place. 

 

Bonnie: How well do you know New Austin? 

                                                  

John: don't. We talked about coming down here many times, but we never made it.       

 

Bonnie: Who's "we"? 

 

John: Me and the folks I used to, used to work with.Yeah, New Austin, the last real outlaw country. Where the old ways still hold true. You do a man wrong, he'll shoot you for it. You do a man right... Well, he may still shoot you for it. But at least you have an idea of what's right and what's wrong here.                                                                                                                                                                                                            

2. They Were Active In West Elizabeth- Dutch and his gang were active in West Elizabeth, terrorizing and robbing from it. This makes sense, especially because West Elizabeth looks to be making a return in the new game, as per the leaked map. Newspaper excerpts from RDR make this clear:

 

"Not  since Dutch Van Der Linde's crew was operating up in West Elizabeth has a criminal group caused so much consternation, nor gained so much publicity."                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

3. They Were Also Active In "The West"- â€‹Before they came to New Elizabeth or any of the areas in the new map, they were active out west. This can be easily surmised from a few statements. The Stranger from the I Know You missions tells John:                                                           

                                                                                                                     

"I know you from back out West..."       

 

In the trailer, Arthur also states:                                 

                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                     

"They chased us from the West, they chased us over the mountains..."                                                                                 

 

4. Members- In RDR, we're only made aware of five former members of Dutch's gang, those being John Marston, Bill Williamson, Javier Escuella, Dutch himself, and Abigail Marston. It would make sense if their was other members in the past that just weren't mentioned. The backgrounds we're given on each gang member is as follows: John Marston was saved from a hanging by Dutch and subsequently joined his gang, learning to read under Dutch's tutelage. Bill was a former soldier who joined Dutch's cause. Javier was an early Mexican revolutionary from Nuevo Pariso who joined up with the gang and idolized Dutch. Abigail was a prostitute who rode with the gang and slept with everyone in the gang.                                                                                         

5. Feats- They robbed over 40 banks, killed hundreds of people, robbed trains, and rustled horses. According to John, they stole from rich people and institutions and gave back to the poor, romanticizing themselves as some kind of western Robin Hoods. At one point they even raided a ferry.                                   

 

6. Dissolution- As the years crept on, Dutch slowly went insane, using meaningless violence to mask his pain. This caused his fellow gang members to go insane as well, especially Javier, who was hit the hardest by this turn of events. After a botched robbery in 1906, after John was left for dead, the gang dissolved, and it was thought that Dutch was dead too. 

 

7. Philosophy- The gang saw the encroaching government as just another more powerful gang, with no interest for the common people of the country. They were practically secessionists, who wanted to create a new and different society, which seems to resemble anarcho-communism. Despite all of their efforts, the government continued to expand their control of the population, and in the face of the futility of his cause, began to lash out With less and less discrimination. 

Dutch: Looks like it's me and you, John. You should have stayed at home. Working for the government, John. After all I taught you. I'm ashamed.

Marston: I don't have a choice.

Dutch: There's always a choice! You're just too blind to see.

Marston: They got my family.

Dutch: Your family? Abigail was any man's wife, John. And Jack, he's another whore's son, just like you. You're weak. You always were. You never had the stomach for this.

Marston: For what? You got no idea what you're killin' for.

Dutch: You never could see what I see, John. You were too scared. You'll never get me to surrender! You better kill me, John!

Marston: If that's how it's gotta be.

Dutch: Well come on and get it then. Come closer! I got a surprise for you!

Marston: There's no more surprises. It ends here! So this is it? Your savage utopia, up here in the mountains?

Dutch: You wouldn't understand.

Marston: It's all in your head, Dutch. That's what drove you insane. What have you done? Apart from murder people. What have you changed, Dutch?



Dutch: More than you'll ever know.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

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Yelda
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#2

Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:18 AM Edited by Yelda, 04 December 2017 - 12:40 PM.

We could also try to analyze the relationship between the members of the gang. We can read a lot in the rdr wiki ...

Dutch-Member: Seems to have been almost a father-figure to the gang members, especially to young member like John and Abigail
Dutch-John: John followed him unconditionally for a long time till the failed robbery. Despite Dutch leaving him for dead he still holds respect for him.
Dutch-Javier: He seems to have been with Dutch for a long time, knowing he's in Colombia. Maybe he had a higher position within the gang?
John-Bill: Bill seems jealous of the good relationship between Dutch and John ... maybe Dutch has allways favored John.
John-Javier: Javier calls John his "brother" quite often, implying that they were close friends, but maybe only Javier saw it that way ... John says "brother" very cynically

Javier-Bill: Javier helps Bill escape. So they had contact after the gang split up
Abigail-Member: Serviced the gang as a prostitute until she falls in love with John
Jack-Member: Jack was born when his parents rode with Dutch´s gang. He named Dutch and Bill "uncle" and stated they used to tell him stories of their criminal exploits.

 

That's what I heard in the game, read from the wiki or how I interpreted that. maybe others have read something more. I'm curious what we still experience in RDRII :D
 

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tsycho
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#3

Posted 04 December 2017 - 12:14 PM

Dutch AND John must have been leaders of the gang somehow... (RDR 1, Bill Williamson to John Marston before he shoots him:"...I'm in charge now! No more Dutch and no more you!")

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Yelda
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#4

Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:01 PM Edited by Yelda, 04 December 2017 - 01:45 PM.

Dutch AND John must have been leaders of the gang somehow... (RDR 1, Bill Williamson to John Marston before he shoots him:"...I'm in charge now! No more Dutch and no more you!")

Maybe he just had enough to see that John was always preferred, even though he had been riding so much longer with Dutch? Maybe he was already assuming that John would lead the gang after Dutch went slowly insane? But did Bill really think so far? He does not seem very smart to me in the first part, just self-serving, greedy and ruthless ...
That's just what i thought ... it will probably be completly different :colgate: 


 

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Hunter S. Compton
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#5

Posted 04 December 2017 - 02:38 PM

7. Philosophy- The gang saw the encroaching government as just another more powerful gang, with no interest for the common people of the country. They were practically secessionists, who wanted to create a new and different society, which seems to resemble anarcho-communism. Despite all of their efforts, the government continued to expand their control of the population, and in the face of the futility of his cause, began to lash out With less and less discrimination.

Dutch: Looks like it's me and you, John. You should have stayed at home. Working for the government, John. After all I taught you. I'm ashamed.

Marston: I don't have a choice.

Dutch: There's always a choice! You're just too blind to see.

Marston: They got my family.

Dutch: Your family? Abigail was any man's wife, John. And Jack, he's another whore's son, just like you. You're weak. You always were. You never had the stomach for this.

Marston: For what? You got no idea what you're killin' for.

Dutch: You never could see what I see, John. You were too scared. You'll never get me to surrender! You better kill me, John!

Marston: If that's how it's gotta be.

Dutch: Well come on and get it then. Come closer! I got a surprise for you!

Marston: There's no more surprises. It ends here! So this is it? Your savage utopia, up here in the mountains?

Dutch: You wouldn't understand.

Marston: It's all in your head, Dutch. That's what drove you insane. What have you done? Apart from murder people. What have you changed, Dutch?

Dutch: More than you'll ever know.
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Hunter S. Compton
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#6

Posted 05 December 2017 - 04:51 PM

John also repeatedly refers to Dutch as a "good man" and in the mission "The Outlaw's Return" refers to both Dutch and Bill as "good men who went bad." Interesting because most people are only familiar with Bill as an absolute brute of a bastard. Seeing him as something resembling honorable or good would be interesting. In his defense, he probably didn't shoot John to death on purpose, when John approached Fort Mercer.

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mombo2811
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#7

Posted 05 December 2017 - 07:38 PM

arthur seems loyal to dutch but i think by the end of the game he will leave the gang

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RedDeadRenegade
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#8

Posted 05 December 2017 - 09:27 PM

John also repeatedly refers to Dutch as a "good man" and in the mission "The Outlaw's Return" refers to both Dutch and Bill as "good men who went bad." Interesting because most people are only familiar with Bill as an absolute brute of a bastard. Seeing him as something resembling honorable or good would be interesting. In his defense, he probably didn't shoot John to death on purpose, when John approached Fort Mercer.

 

 

7. Philosophy- The gang saw the encroaching government as just another more powerful gang, with no interest for the common people of the country. They were practically secessionists, who wanted to create a new and different society, which seems to resemble anarcho-communism. Despite all of their efforts, the government continued to expand their control of the population, and in the face of the futility of his cause, began to lash out With less and less discrimination.

Dutch: Looks like it's me and you, John. You should have stayed at home. Working for the government, John. After all I taught you. I'm ashamed.

Marston: I don't have a choice.

Dutch: There's always a choice! You're just too blind to see.

Marston: They got my family.

Dutch: Your family? Abigail was any man's wife, John. And Jack, he's another whore's son, just like you. You're weak. You always were. You never had the stomach for this.

Marston: For what? You got no idea what you're killin' for.

Dutch: You never could see what I see, John. You were too scared. You'll never get me to surrender! You better kill me, John!

Marston: If that's how it's gotta be.

Dutch: Well come on and get it then. Come closer! I got a surprise for you!

Marston: There's no more surprises. It ends here! So this is it? Your savage utopia, up here in the mountains?

Dutch: You wouldn't understand.

Marston: It's all in your head, Dutch. That's what drove you insane. What have you done? Apart from murder people. What have you changed, Dutch?

Dutch: More than you'll ever know.

 

Thank you for both of these, your responses are well thought out and interesting. In the GOTY manual, it says that Bill used to be a soldier, so maybe he suffers from some kind of PTSD? Maybe he felt betrayed by his government and decided to join Dutch's crusade against corrupt "civilization". 

 

Another thing I'd like to say is that I really hope they write Bill, Javier and Dutch three dimensionally. Don't just portray them as assholes or "bad guys" give them some redeeming qualities. Have them act like they really are "brothers" as they constantly say in the first game. If the game makes me care about them, even just a little, then that will make me feel bad about killing them in RDR as John. It will add more depth to it. That's the difference between a good prequel vs a bad prequel, it actually enhances the first game. That's probably the thing I'm most excited about for this game, the chance to gain more insight into Dutch and Co.

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Birda13
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#9

Posted 06 December 2017 - 06:23 PM

Excellent write up. Another thing we should add to this list is the history that Uncle had with Dutchs Gang. Clearly he had a past relationship with John and his family but he also eludes to knowing Bill and Dutch who he considered friends. Cant wait to learn more.
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PapasHota
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#10

Posted 06 December 2017 - 07:41 PM

Excellent write up. Another thing we should add to this list is the history that Uncle had with Dutchs Gang. Clearly he had a past relationship with John and his family but he also eludes to knowing Bill and Dutch who he considered friends. Cant wait to learn more.

  • In A Continual Feast, Uncle tells John that it was a shame he killed Bill and Dutch, as he and them were friends. To which John argues that they only kept him around as a joke.
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zachsterosu
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#11

Posted 08 December 2017 - 06:53 PM Edited by zachsterosu, 08 December 2017 - 08:24 PM.

I'm re-watching the cutscenes from John's final confrontation with Bill(An Appointed Time), and Javier(The Gates of El Presidido). There's some interesting dialogue that I hadn't remembered.
 
An Appointed Time
  • Bill: "You always was weak-minded!"
  • John: "You're the one who let Dutch drive you insane!"
  • Bill: "Dutch wanted you dead, we all did!"
The Gates of El Presidido(Skipping some non-relevant lines)
  • Javier: "Come on, you're not going to shoot your own brother, are you? We was family."
  • John: "Yeah, we were, then you and Dutch went crazy and family didn't mean so much."
  • John: "What you and Dutch did was wrong. And the way you left me was wrong."
  • Javier: "We thought you was dead, brother. I promise. I'm telling the truth."
  • John: "You left me to die, to save your own skin and now you expect me to care about you?"

I think the raid on the ferry might have been a set-up to get John killed, and it almost sounds like it could've been a straight up-massacre of innocent people, as John seems to have a strong disdain for what his former brothers took part in. Also, I find it interesting that John never mentions Bill when talking about Dutch and Javier going insane, and vice-versa.
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tsycho
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#12

Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:16 PM Edited by tsycho89, 08 December 2017 - 07:17 PM.

I'm re-watching the cutscenes from John's final confrontation with Bill(An Appointed Time), and Javier(The Gates of El Presidido). There's some interesting dialogue that I hadn't remembered.

 

An Appointed Time

  • Bill: "You always was weak-minded!"
  • John: "You're the one who let Dutch drive you insane!"
  • Bill: "Dutch wanted you dead, we all did!"

The Gates of El Presidido(Skipping some non-relevant lines)

  • Javier: "Come on, you're not going to shoot your own brother, are you? We was family."
  • John: "Yeah, we were, then you and Dutch went crazy and family didn't mean so much."
  • John: "What you and Dutch did was wrong. And the way you left me was wrong."
  • Javier: "We thought you was dead, brother. I promise. I'm telling the truth."
  • John: "You left me to die, to save your own skin and now you expect me to care about you?"

I think the raid on the ferry might have been a set-up to get John killed, and it almost sounds like it could've been a straight up-massacre of innocent people, as John seems to have a strong disdain for what his former brothers took part in. Also, I find it interesting that John never mentions Bill when talking about Dutch and Javier going insane, and vice-versa.

We know that Dutch's gang had this Robin Hood philosophy. Maybe rich people were on this ferry and the gang "just" wanted to rob them. But Dutch (and some of his people - influenced by Dutch's philosophy) went crazy because he was annoyed by the decadence of these people. So he deviated from the "we take from the rich and give to the poor" thing and they started a massacre. John didn't like this at all, tried to stop them and a gangmember (maybe Dutch himself) shot him during all this chaos. The others thought (or have benn told), John was shot by an enemy.

 

Just pure speculation...

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djb204
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#13

Posted 04 January 2018 - 03:58 AM

Arthur isnt part of Dutch's gang. Dutch's gang is just a small part of RDR2s story line. Aurther has his own gang and he does some missions with Dutch's gang. This is what we see in the trailer. Dutch's gang is seen for hype in the trailer. He is not a major character.


RedDeadRenegade
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#14

Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:04 PM

Arthur isnt part of Dutch's gang. Dutch's gang is just a small part of RDR2s story line. Aurther has his own gang and he does some missions with Dutch's gang. This is what we see in the trailer. Dutch's gang is seen for hype in the trailer. He is not a major character.


We have nothing to indicate this. Why even have them in the game then? Weve already seen Arthur, Dutch and Bill robbing a train together, that seems like a f*cking gang to me. If they put Dutch in the trailer and hes only a small part of the game, Id be pretty f*cking annoyed. Thats total bullsh*t
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Heidi McCourt
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#15

Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:12 PM

Arthur isnt part of Dutch's gang. Dutch's gang is just a small part of RDR2s story line. Aurther has his own gang and he does some missions with Dutch's gang. This is what we see in the trailer. Dutch's gang is seen for hype in the trailer. He is not a major character.

This guy lol, Okay so your still not convinced. R* wouldn't put the whole of dutch's gang on almost every screen shot, trailer, and artwork if they were a small portion of the game. RDR2 is trying to accomplish telling us the story of dutch's gang before the events of RDR1 while mastering Arthur Morgans story. If it was for hype and they were that small I'm sure R* wouldn't have them throughout every image and trailer. R* know that would piss us off if they were that small in the game but hyped up so much so they are obviously going to avoid keeping them at such a small level.

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zachsterosu
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#16

Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:10 AM Edited by zachsterosu, 14 February 2018 - 06:17 AM.

Another extremely interesting exchange of dialogue, this time between John and Abigail, during the mission 'Old Friends, New Problems'.

https://www.youtube....h?v=x_SMKI8m3WY

 

John: "Bill weren't so bad, but when Dutch went crazy, Bill took it hard."

 

Abigail: "For a while we all thought we'd found somethin' right, a better way to live, but it was just a lie. You saw it before they did."

 

John: "Maybe. But they was still kind of a family."

 

Abigail: "A family that left you for dead. You knew the truth, John, and they hated you for it."

 

Maybe the gang really did think that they were 'wild west robin hoods' of sorts, only to find out that Dutch was secretly keeping all the money for himself(look at his appearance in RDR2). This might explain why both Bill and Javier "took it hard" as John so often remarks. The man they so admired and had all looked up to was a fraud, and they felt betrayed. This could also tie-in to a theory I've seen passed around which is that the burning mansion belongs to Dutch, and that it might be the fire he is rumored to have perished in.

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#17

Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:54 AM

Where is it stated that they killed hundreds of people in their "prime"? If that's really the case, then John was even more of a lawless person than i could ever imagine.
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Safari
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#18

Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:03 PM

Another extremely interesting exchange of dialogue, this time between John and Abigail, during the mission 'Old Friends, New Problems'.

https://www.youtube....h?v=x_SMKI8m3WY

 

John: "Bill weren't so bad, but when Dutch went crazy, Bill took it hard."

 

Abigail: "For a while we all thought we'd found somethin' right, a better way to live, but it was just a lie. You saw it before they did."

 

John: "Maybe. But they was still kind of a family."

 

Abigail: "A family that left you for dead. You knew the truth, John, and they hated you for it."

 

Maybe the gang really did think that they were 'wild west robin hoods' of sorts, only to find out that Dutch was secretly keeping all the money for himself(look at his appearance in RDR2). This might explain why both Bill and Javier "took it hard" as John so often remarks. The man they so admired and had all looked up to was a fraud, and they felt betrayed. This could also tie-in to a theory I've seen passed around which is that the burning mansion belongs to Dutch, and that it might be the fire he is rumored to have perished in.

wow thats a nice little idea it seems like that likely the case because you can see bill walking away from the burning mansion. 

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#19

Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:53 PM

Where is it stated that they killed hundreds of people in their "prime"? If that's really the case, then John was even more of a lawless person than i could ever imagine.

 

Edgar Ross tells John that the gang killed hundreds of people. Also, really? John kills hundreds of people just in THE GAME, how hard is it to imagine that he murdered a lot of people in the past? By his own admission, John is not an angel. I'm almost amazed that people put him up on a pedestal like this.

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#20

Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:07 PM

 

John also repeatedly refers to Dutch as a "good man" and in the mission "The Outlaw's Return" refers to both Dutch and Bill as "good men who went bad." Interesting because most people are only familiar with Bill as an absolute brute of a bastard. Seeing him as something resembling honorable or good would be interesting. In his defense, he probably didn't shoot John to death on purpose, when John approached Fort Mercer.

 

 

7. Philosophy- The gang saw the encroaching government as just another more powerful gang, with no interest for the common people of the country. They were practically secessionists, who wanted to create a new and different society, which seems to resemble anarcho-communism. Despite all of their efforts, the government continued to expand their control of the population, and in the face of the futility of his cause, began to lash out With less and less discrimination.

Dutch: Looks like it's me and you, John. You should have stayed at home. Working for the government, John. After all I taught you. I'm ashamed.

Marston: I don't have a choice.

Dutch: There's always a choice! You're just too blind to see.

Marston: They got my family.

Dutch: Your family? Abigail was any man's wife, John. And Jack, he's another whore's son, just like you. You're weak. You always were. You never had the stomach for this.

Marston: For what? You got no idea what you're killin' for.

Dutch: You never could see what I see, John. You were too scared. You'll never get me to surrender! You better kill me, John!

Marston: If that's how it's gotta be.

Dutch: Well come on and get it then. Come closer! I got a surprise for you!

Marston: There's no more surprises. It ends here! So this is it? Your savage utopia, up here in the mountains?

Dutch: You wouldn't understand.

Marston: It's all in your head, Dutch. That's what drove you insane. What have you done? Apart from murder people. What have you changed, Dutch?

Dutch: More than you'll ever know.

 

Thank you for both of these, your responses are well thought out and interesting. In the GOTY manual, it says that Bill used to be a soldier, so maybe he suffers from some kind of PTSD? Maybe he felt betrayed by his government and decided to join Dutch's crusade against corrupt "civilization". 

 

Another thing I'd like to say is that I really hope they write Bill, Javier and Dutch three dimensionally. Don't just portray them as assholes or "bad guys" give them some redeeming qualities. Have them act like they really are "brothers" as they constantly say in the first game. If the game makes me care about them, even just a little, then that will make me feel bad about killing them in RDR as John. It will add more depth to it. That's the difference between a good prequel vs a bad prequel, it actually enhances the first game. That's probably the thing I'm most excited about for this game, the chance to gain more insight into Dutch and Co.

 

Do you think Bill was a Confederate soldier? wait. is there any mention of a civil war in RDR1? idk but i always kind of liked how RDR1 is the story of a gang of outlaws but its like way after all the action happens and its all wrapping up. i always thought that was really cool because most games put you in the funnest most interesting parts but that one didn't. they just rode around talking about robbing banks and trains and stuff and left it to imagination. Now with RDR2 it looks like we're gonna actually get to play where the action happened. im down with it.

 

 

Where is it stated that they killed hundreds of people in their "prime"? If that's really the case, then John was even more of a lawless person than i could ever imagine.

 

Edgar Ross tells John that the gang killed hundreds of people. Also, really? John kills hundreds of people just in THE GAME, how hard is it to imagine that he murdered a lot of people in the past? By his own admission, John is not an angel. I'm almost amazed that people put him up on a pedestal like this.

Well it wouldtnt be red dead REDEMPTION if he was a perfect man. lol. I mean RDR is really the story of an evil man trying to do right in his older age. I like a nice flawed character though. dont have to be perfect for me to like him. i also like a nice sad ending. RDR1 has both

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SuperKitsune
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#21

Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:14 PM

Where is it stated that they killed hundreds of people in their "prime"? If that's really the case, then John was even more of a lawless person than i could ever imagine.

 
Edgar Ross tells John that the gang killed hundreds of people. Also, really? John kills hundreds of people just in THE GAME, how hard is it to imagine that he murdered a lot of people in the past? By his own admission, John is not an angel. I'm almost amazed that people put him up on a pedestal like this.

It's because I never killed innocent people in rdr.

I'm assuming you were talking about innocent regular people also that were amongst their victims. It's that part that I found unlike John.
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#22

Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:57 PM

Do you think Bill was a Confederate soldier? wait. is there any mention of a civil war in RDR1? idk but i always kind of liked how RDR1 is the story of a gang of outlaws but its like way after all the action happens and its all wrapping up. i always thought that was really cool because most games put you in the funnest most interesting parts but that one didn't. they just rode around talking about robbing banks and trains and stuff and left it to imagination. Now with RDR2 it looks like we're gonna actually get to play where the action happened. im down with it.

 

Bill was born after the Civil War. Its more likely he was involved in one of the many minor wars the government fought against Native Americans

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zachsterosu
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#23

Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:31 AM Edited by zachsterosu, 15 February 2018 - 12:32 AM.

Do you think Bill was a Confederate soldier? wait. is there any mention of a civil war in RDR1? idk but i always kind of liked how RDR1 is the story of a gang of outlaws but its like way after all the action happens and its all wrapping up. i always thought that was really cool because most games put you in the funnest most interesting parts but that one didn't. they just rode around talking about robbing banks and trains and stuff and left it to imagination. Now with RDR2 it looks like we're gonna actually get to play where the action happened. im down with it.

 
Bill was born after the Civil War. Its more likely he was involved in one of the many minor wars the government fought against Native Americans
Based on a bit of research, I'm thinking he was most likely a combatant in the Spanish-American War.
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#24

Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:48 AM

Good idea Zach, that's also a possibility. Also sorry for pushing so hard against your Dutch mansion theory in General chat, its just not an idea I agree with. No hard feelings I hope haha 

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#25

Posted 15 February 2018 - 01:32 PM

Bill would be the kind of guy that kills and loots for fun during war (and after). I never liked that guy, not one bit.

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#26

Posted 15 February 2018 - 01:59 PM

 

 

Do you think Bill was a Confederate soldier? wait. is there any mention of a civil war in RDR1? idk but i always kind of liked how RDR1 is the story of a gang of outlaws but its like way after all the action happens and its all wrapping up. i always thought that was really cool because most games put you in the funnest most interesting parts but that one didn't. they just rode around talking about robbing banks and trains and stuff and left it to imagination. Now with RDR2 it looks like we're gonna actually get to play where the action happened. im down with it.

 
Bill was born after the Civil War. Its more likely he was involved in one of the many minor wars the government fought against Native Americans
Based on a bit of research, I'm thinking he was most likely a combatant in the Spanish-American War.

 

That would make sense as to how he ended up out west. Become a soldier, get deployed on the western border, possibly go AWOL, or just finish his time, then join a gang. Maybe that's where they found Javier, too. I think it would be cool if perhaps bill and Javier were on different sides of a war and ended up coming together under dutch and his philosophy.

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#27

Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:21 PM Edited by zachsterosu, 15 February 2018 - 05:22 PM.

Good idea Zach, that's also a possibility. Also sorry for pushing so hard against your Dutch mansion theory in General chat, its just not an idea I agree with. No hard feelings I hope haha 

No problem! I personally don't care for it that much either, but just the way Abigail and John said "it was all just a lie" was something I thought was interesting. I hadn't ever heard anyone talk about the gang's breakup that way before. Maybe I'm reading too literally into this, and they were just referring to their way of life being a lie, as in they really had no justification for their crimes, unlike they originally thought. In short, the idea that their victims deserved what they got was a lie...
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#28

Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:24 PM Edited by Efreet, 15 February 2018 - 05:24 PM.

Bill would be the kind of guy that kills and loots for fun during war (and after). I never liked that guy, not one bit.

 

A mercenary type of guy, yeah. Shootin and lootin! 

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#29

Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:27 PM Edited by zachsterosu, 15 February 2018 - 05:31 PM.

 

 

Do you think Bill was a Confederate soldier? wait. is there any mention of a civil war in RDR1? idk but i always kind of liked how RDR1 is the story of a gang of outlaws but its like way after all the action happens and its all wrapping up. i always thought that was really cool because most games put you in the funnest most interesting parts but that one didn't. they just rode around talking about robbing banks and trains and stuff and left it to imagination. Now with RDR2 it looks like we're gonna actually get to play where the action happened. im down with it.

 
Bill was born after the Civil War. Its more likely he was involved in one of the many minor wars the government fought against Native Americans
Based on a bit of research, I'm thinking he was most likely a combatant in the Spanish-American War.
 
That would make sense as to how he ended up out west. Become a soldier, get deployed on the western border, possibly go AWOL, or just finish his time, then join a gang. Maybe that's where they found Javier, too. I think it would be cool if perhaps bill and Javier were on different sides of a war and ended up coming together under dutch and his philosophy.
There was something I read that said many returning soldiers had a hard time finding jobs. A fair amount of them were also too proud to accept handouts from people, and they wanted to "work for their money". This could be the exact scenario that would send someone like Bill down the path of becoming an outlaw...

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#30

Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:47 PM

A mercenary type of guy, yeah. Shootin and lootin!

Busting rhymes? lol. Im the rapper here. thats my domain. calm down. lol. i would hope bill is a good man that turned all rotten because it makes fo ra more complex character but yeah in RDR1 he really seems like a cutthroat bastard.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think Bill was a Confederate soldier? wait. is there any mention of a civil war in RDR1? idk but i always kind of liked how RDR1 is the story of a gang of outlaws but its like way after all the action happens and its all wrapping up. i always thought that was really cool because most games put you in the funnest most interesting parts but that one didn't. they just rode around talking about robbing banks and trains and stuff and left it to imagination. Now with RDR2 it looks like we're gonna actually get to play where the action happened. im down with it.

 
Bill was born after the Civil War. Its more likely he was involved in one of the many minor wars the government fought against Native Americans
Based on a bit of research, I'm thinking he was most likely a combatant in the Spanish-American War.
 
That would make sense as to how he ended up out west. Become a soldier, get deployed on the western border, possibly go AWOL, or just finish his time, then join a gang. Maybe that's where they found Javier, too. I think it would be cool if perhaps bill and Javier were on different sides of a war and ended up coming together under dutch and his philosophy.
There was something I read that said many returning soldiers had a hard time finding jobs. A fair amount of them were also too proud to accept handouts from people, and they wanted to "work for their money". This could be the exact scenario that would send someone like Bill down the path of becoming an outlaw...

 

No doubt. I think you got it. idk. and "they wanted to "work for their money"."... Something about being human we want to be useful and we want to actually have worked for what we get. not being able to do that, it can drive someone crazy. I could see it.

 

also, off topic, i wonder if R* just announces games waaaay too early so we all come on here and get hype and talk about what we would like. Then they read the forum and incorporate some of the ideas into the game. That, OR, they just really understand their fans. I got much respect for R*, as many of you do here, and they seem like the kind of company that might do such a thing. I was a little dissatisfied with GTA:V but thats like strike 1. look at Bethesda, look at EA games and they on like strike 5. lol.

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