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GTA: Return to It's Roots

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Mister Pink
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#1

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by Mister Pink, 2 weeks ago.

8753084_orig.jpg

 

3D era was a clear progression from III to VC to SA. They just added more features and it got bigger and bigger. 

 

HD era is all over the place. With IV we went from 3 cities and countryside to one city and no flying planes, no diving in the sea, no good rewards for collectibles, car modding removed and a bunch of other features removed. It was a rags to slightly better rags story. Story came first and it was a great story but it also meant that gameplay became secondary and gameplay suffered for that. 

 

With V, they almost tried to reverse negative sentiments surrounding IV by adding gameplay elements like character switching which we all think made the story suffer.  The story was questionable to begin with but it's mostly agreed that it's short and there's no room for character development as most of the story's functionality is taken up by character-switching. It might be fair to say that this was Rockstar's attempt of injecting gameplay back in to the series but at the expense of the story. Where as IV focused on story at the expense of gameplay. Now V is a multiplayer game call GTA Online.

 

gta-san-andreas-pa-vej-til-mobilen_g4zn.

 

 

To me it's like Rockstar's GTA having some sort of identity crisis. It doesn't know what it is anymore. They say they try to make each GTA a unique experience but since the HD era, I think Rockstar are making these drastic changes in direction that deviate too far and ends up alienating a huge core of their fans. I think then new fans come along  and that release is the core of their GTA world and everything is measured against it.

 

For example, GTA in my heart is going from III to VC to SA. It's going from a grey New York to a sunny Miami, just like in Donnie Brasco when they go from New York to set up business down in Miami. It was period pieces, like Vice City and San Andreas, the drastic changing of cars between titles because there's a 6 year or 20 years change in time so cothes and cars and style is fresh and new. It's going from one city to three cities and amazing countryside. It's adding of features every release but keeping with the same core game play. It was playing these cities new, I mean playing in these cities for the first time in an open world game. Like Las Vegas or San Fierro. They were new cites for me to explore in 3D! Whereas someone new to the series that started with IV might think that GTA should be less gameplay and more story if that makes sense?

 

 

 

gtaSanAndreasGantBridge.jpg

 

 

GTA Next...

 

I'm hoping Rockstar don't try novelty approaches or extremes. V seems like a reaction to IV's criticism so they went out and did the complete opposite of IV. The driving went from "boatlike" to super-sensitive arcade style driving when in reality the driving for me should have been somewhere in between. Lets call it IV.5 driving. 

 

I hoping Rockstar doesn't go too extreme again. I'm anticipating a GTA that has the graphical power of modern GTA's with the 3D era sensibilities. 

 

- New cities to explore. We haven't had a new explorable city since San Andreas. I loved San Fierro and Las Venturas and even Los Santos when they were new. I especially loved the fact that it was 1992 and that I could experience a little bit of style or time that had gone by. 

 

- Rags to riches. Nothing more satisfying than feeling like you are moving up in a GTA crime world. Having various safehouses, cars to fill the garages, properties and businesses to purchase are really rewarding.  

 

- Focus on and flesh out core-gameplay. By core gameplay I mean hand-to-hand combat, driving, police reactions and star system. We don't need novelty feature like character-switching. If you want to add character-switching, please fix hand to hand combat, driving and police first. 

 

- Make Single Player Great Again! Please don't go extreme again Rockstar. Don't strip out a bunch of features like flying planes or any other drastic features you took out before for the sake of story. Please make a story with a protagonist that we can believe will utilize game play features in GTA.

 

- Likeable protagonist like Lincoln Clay or Tommy Vercetti. I finished Mafia III and realized Tommy Vercetti and Lincoln Clay had some things in common. Both were f*cked over at the start of the game, Lincoln by his old friends and Tommy during the drug deal. Right off the bat, you're empathizing with the character. You're on the protaonist's side because an injustice was done to the guy you are controlling and it's up you to you to make it right. You are sided with the character and their motives. Even CJ's motives are to get his brother back from corrupt cops holding him in jail. You side with him because you've witnessed a clear injustice. That's the premise, the motivation that takes us on the journey.  There's a disconnect with Michael in V because he's a snake, he f*cked over his friend. Trevor is annoying creep hard to empathize with or feel sorry for and Franklin just seemed to walk in to this bizarre party and have everything just handed to him, like mansion. Total fail on Rockstars part there. 

 

If I can elaborate on the premise or the injustice at the start of a GTA story.  Having some wild injustice open the game for you gives you the motivation to carry out the wild things you do in GTA. The suspension of disbelief's key is in the premise. San Andreas might be fantastical at times  but when you ask why CJ is doing these things, the answer is always concrete. It's solid. He's doing it for his brother. His own flesh and blood. If you asked Tommy Vercetti why the f*ck he was shooting up half of Miami, whacking bosses and robbing banks he had a good enough reason. "My bosses money got stolen in a drug deal. My bosses are New York Mafia family." The motivations are realistic even if the consequences are not and the suspension of disbelief lies somewhere in between. I would add Niko but the injustice happened pre-game and 10 years before. So while I like Niko I think the story would have been best served in we saw or experienced this injustice instead of just being told about it. 

 

 

GTA-3-PC-Game-2.jpeg

 

 

Conclusion

 

I hope GTA returns to it's roots. First of all, give us a new city like Boston or Baltimore. I don't recall ever driving around in a video game in either of those cities. I really hope we get a new city to breath some freshness in to the series. Make a strong protagonist we can agree on. Not 3 protagonists that hate each other and not ever really feeling connected to one. Focus on single player and make the story huge like it was in the 3D era. Even IV actually as the story was long enough in IV. Make single player a priority. If there is an online make sure features get added to SP first and MP second. Don't be afraid to make period piece again. 1980's or even 1990's would provide us with big enough change in the clothes and cars to make GTA visually appealing and fresh again. Sick of driving the same looking Infernus for the last 10 years. OK, you just released a DLC pack with older cars but this is nowhere near as satisfying as jumping from 00's to 80's and having a big leap in style of cars. I just don't think we need drastic changes like MP focus or character-switching. The idea of a new city or cities is great in a GTA world. GTA could have kept the same formula for a few more titles before it ever needed to go multiplayer so long as they went to new locations and added or improved features. MP and character switching for me is losing focus when you still have a atrocious half-baked "stealth" or crappy hand to hand combat.

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DOUGL4S1
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#2

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by DOUGL4S1, 2 weeks ago.

I agree with most of these things. As told, GTA V's story felt too short, which was made worse because of the 3 protagonists, as it was technically split into 3, and it also made half of the map completelly useless. Paleto Bay is not used apart from 2 or 3 missions, and Sandy Shores is only used because Trevor lives there. Also, the desert in that game was tiny. The desert in San Andreas felt huge because it had various cities, ghost towns, interesting sights, and even a military base, while GTA V's is just a city surrounded by sand. It doesn't feel natural at all. The lack of a second big city makes the countryside part pointless, and don't get me started in the uselessness of Mt. Chiliad.

 

As far as story goes, the revenge plot from the begining may be seen as a chiché. A way to make you relate to a character from the begining could be like Mafia II's intro, showing the character's story since he was a kid, and then having something similar to GTA IV, having the player relate not only to the protagonist, but to a character from the begining as a friend, only to be stabbed in the back a few missions later. I do agree with another game taking place in the old times, the ambientation in games like these, specially GTAs Vice City and San Andreas, and the entire Mafia series are just amazing.

 

As for prioritizing gameplay over story, I'd say find a healthy mix between both. I really enjoyed that GTA V would let you chose a way to complete a heist and even choose your crew. It gave it some replay value, but missions like GTA IV's Lure, where you have total freedom on how to get a character either out of his appartment or on a place where you can shoot him are amazing, and add even more gameplay value.

 

However, we all know T2 will tell Rockstar to make GTA Online 2.0...

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Queen Elizabeth II
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#3

Posted 2 weeks ago

Likeable protagonist like Lincoln Clay

 

This guy is the worst protagonist ever. As bad as Franklin, Trevor and Michael.

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ViceOfLiberty
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#4

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by ViceOfLiberty, 2 weeks ago.

Needs to go back to a Claude type protagonist where nothing is too far fetched for them to get into. A silent criminal who doesn't give a sh*t what he has to do to make it. He's on the run, facing life in prison. Jacking cars, pimping hoes, selling drugs, doing mob hits, getting into gang wars, arson, theft, racketeering, counterfeiting. A character that just works as a vessel for us to navigate through the city's underworld. f*ck all this one dimensional, bottlenecked possibility, movie narrative garbage where you just play through some asshole's story and that's it. Let the world and the people we involve ourselves with tell the story. A story where anything goes!
 

I want to see Goodfellas/Sopranos type mob figures along side Triad bosses and thugs warring with Yakuza. Gangs representing skyscraping projects and ghetto neighborhoods, dirty cops, drug gangs making hand to hand sales, hit squads, professional thieves and stick-up guys, shady corporate figures trying to capitalize on the effects of street crime, pimps fighting over turf to field their hookers, a dirty neon lit red light district, a deep grimey China town, a plethora of local businesses that gangs fight over the rights to extort, underground markets for illegal automatic weapons, a scarcity of ammo where sometimes stabbing a dude in the face is the best approach, driveby's, murder over debt and people gambling at the casino's chasing dreams and dragons, clubs, bars, strip joints with backroom card games... all that sh*t. 

 

YOU choose how you wanna navigate the world and make your bread. YOU choose who you align with and face the consequences of YOUR actions. 

 

Check out my thread in GTA: NEXT called "GTA Theory" regarding the player character.

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universetwisters
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#5

Posted 2 weeks ago

 

Likeable protagonist like Lincoln Clay

 

This guy is the worst protagonist ever. As bad as Franklin, Trevor and Michael.

 

 

[citation needed]

 

At least he went through some kind of character development, even though he was little more than a revenge machine.

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ViceOfLiberty
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#6

Posted 2 weeks ago

 

 

Likeable protagonist like Lincoln Clay

 

This guy is the worst protagonist ever. As bad as Franklin, Trevor and Michael.

 

 

[citation needed]

 

At least he went through some kind of character development, even though he was little more than a revenge machine.

 

Dude was basically just an attempt at being edgy amidst the BLM news. The plot was forced to suit the character.

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universetwisters
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#7

Posted 2 weeks ago

 

 

 

Likeable protagonist like Lincoln Clay

 

This guy is the worst protagonist ever. As bad as Franklin, Trevor and Michael.

 

 

[citation needed]

 

At least he went through some kind of character development, even though he was little more than a revenge machine.

 

Dude was basically just an attempt at being edgy amidst the BLM news. The plot was forced to suit the character.

 

 

But in all fairness that plot was better than the V trio's.

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D9fred95
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#8

Posted 2 weeks ago

Well Fallout 4 just did Boston so I dunno about the next GTA taking place there. We need a good Washington D.C. sandbox game.

Stoney0503
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#9

Posted 2 weeks ago

saying gta should "return to its roots" would imply that it should be like the top down games again.

Am Shaegar
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#10

Posted 2 weeks ago

Unlikely. 

Times have changed, fanbase has changed, and even the expectations (online over sp) have changed. It's best to move forward and not put too much of emotion into it. GTA is no longer the same GTA we used to enjoy. It was absolutely clear when GTA IV was released that Rockstar is taking GTA gradually towards multiplayer direction, and interested in offering only a modest (and not fantastic like GTA SA) amount of single-player content, so that players will start getting used to multiplayer aspect of the GTA and be ready for the final jump with ONLINE.

 

I'm having a blast with GTA SA and tons of amazing mods. It looks beautiful on the PC and plays smoothly without any bugs, or the need for a powerful PC.

So, I am least concerned about whether GTA returns to the roots, or not. 

If it returns then cool, otherwise I'll still be enjoying GTA SA and SA:MP!

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Gokuzbu
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#11

Posted 2 weeks ago

I thought TBOGT showed a good direction for future GTA games. The detail and physics of GTA IV, with some San Andreas mayhem injected to bring back the fans left behind. Silly at times but not totally braindead. Unfortunately, V got rid of anything to do with GTA IV, and turned the silly moments of TBOGT up to 11, with less tact and poorer writing.

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ViceOfLiberty
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#12

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by ViceOfLiberty, 2 weeks ago.

saying gta should "return to its roots" would imply that it should be like the top down games again.

Yeah if you're autistic and argue the literal semantics of a statement just for the sake of it. The top-down view is simply nothing more than a camera angle. There is a lot more to the games than that. Doesn't matter though, you just wanted to say something. I get it.

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#13

Posted 2 weeks ago

saying gta should "return to its roots" would imply that it should be like the top down games again.


You love V and think it's the best GTA yet, we get it - but no need for such stupid, nonsensical responses like this.
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#14

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by Queen Elizabeth II, 2 weeks ago.

Well Fallout 4 just did Boston so I dunno about the next GTA taking place there. We need a good Washington D.C. sandbox game.

 

But Fallout 3 has done Washington D.C. already, haha.

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JStarr31
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#15

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by JStarr31, 2 weeks ago.

Boston was Bully's location.
69915069.gif

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#16

Posted 2 weeks ago

 

saying gta should "return to its roots" would imply that it should be like the top down games again.

Yeah if you're autistic and argue the literal semantics of a statement just for the sake of it. The top-down view is simply nothing more than a camera angle. There is a lot more to the games than that. Doesn't matter though, you just wanted to say something. I get it.

 

If you actually want to talk about roots, it's the unfiltered mayhem the game rewarded you for doing, the dumb story just there to try to justify why the f*ck you're going around killing a bunch of circles and sticks, the little to no social-commentary and the sh*tty voice acting. That's what it means for it to be like the top down games again, more than a simple camera angle. 


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#17

Posted 2 weeks ago

Make Grand Theft Auto Race 'n' Chase again.


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#18

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by Stoney0503, 2 weeks ago.

saying gta should "return to its roots" would imply that it should be like the top down games again.

Yeah if you're autistic and argue the literal semantics of a statement just for the sake of it. The top-down view is simply nothing more than a camera angle. There is a lot more to the games than that. Doesn't matter though, you just wanted to say something. I get it.

saying gta should "return to its roots" would imply that it should be like the top down games again.

You love V and think it's the best GTA yet, we get it - but no need for such stupid, nonsensical responses like this.
why are you guys so mad? you know i'm correct
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#19

Posted 2 weeks ago

Boston was Bully's location.
69915069.gif

 

 

what

 

 

 

 

How even?

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#20

Posted 2 weeks ago

I agree with all of this, but I also think that rockstar just needs a new engine. throw out rage and make a new one, something that can handle a huge open world and still have amazing physics and graphics. other open world video games are performing and looking better than anything rockstar has done. as much as I love gta 4, the game does have graphical issues with lots of pop ins and the vehicle spawning system making almost every car the same. Dont even get me started with the graphics and physics issues with gta v, there's just too many to list but its definitely clear the engine is outdated and wont be able to handle a true next gen gta with lots of cars and buildings and hopefully interiors. 

 

and as far as protagonists go im kinda tired of the whole mafia thing, its been done to death already. I dont need a broken down character crying about everything, I dont need a character who is in deep and needs money fast, just give us a character who commits crimes and works with and not for criminals. 

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#21

Posted 2 weeks ago

@zuckmeslow
It really would be nice to see an improvement in this aspect, and they have/had enough
time to improve the graphics engine, the question is how much they have improved it.

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#22

Posted 2 weeks ago

saying gta should "return to its roots" would imply that it should be like the top down games again.

 

I know you know and it's patently obvious that by roots I meant SP focus again which can apply to the top-down games too. But, what was even more obvious is that by roots I mean roots of what what makes GTA great, a 3D, open world based game - and titles that revolutionized video-gaming: GTA III, VC and SA. Was that not obvious when I posted screenshots from those three games or are you just being pedantic to be awkward and edgy? :) 2 main top-down games is hardly representative of the 5 main, open-world 3D games that the series is mostly known for that came after them. Everyone else seemed to get it. Or would you like me to request that a mod changes the title for you to something like "GTA: Return To The 3D Era Style With Modern Graphics" Or "GTA: Return To It's Roots (But Not Top-Down)" I thought the wording on my post made it clear what I was talking about, same with the accompanying images. 

 

If you read my post more carefully, you'll see I mentioned how the HD era has given the series the most drastic changes in terms of dividing fans from title to title. IV being story-focused and less game-play focused and V being more multiplayer focused and less story or SP focused.. Whereas the III-era games just built up upon what was all ready there. There's wasn't the divisiveness that there is now. Based on this, my point is returning to a time the only drastic changes you got were additions of new cities, new gameplay features and new location.  

 

I just seemed for a while that when a new GTA came out we would get a new city or cities and it maybe set during another time. Lately, it's been modern setting, MP focused using cities that all ready featured in their games before. 

 

D9Fred95: Yeah GTA's Boston wouldn't be anything close like a Fallout's retro-futuristic, 1950's influenced Boston set in the year 2287. When I expressed about using the same cities I was kind of talking about if Watch Dogs 2 and GTA VI released near enough to each other or even if GTA VI was set in San Fierro, may of us open-world fans would be trawling the same same streets looking at relatively the same visuals just different games which to me would be very uninspiring. Where as driving through New Orleans in 1968 was the first of it kind in gaming. It's an original experience. III-era games were more original or new experiences for me.

 

ViceOfLiberty: Can't disagree with you. Would love some more silent-Claude type too. One that isn't having some pussified crisis. Maybe just a protag that is a career criminal, in the height of it and is doing it because he might be good at it. 

 

@Dougl4s:

 

As for prioritizing gameplay over story, I'd say find a healthy mix between both. I really enjoyed that GTA V would let you chose a way to complete a heist and even choose your crew. It gave it some replay value, but missions like GTA IV's Lure, where you have total freedom on how to get a character either out of his appartment or on a place where you can shoot him are amazing, and add even more gameplay value.

 

I agree. A healthy mix between the both but not extremes. And you are right, in V, there is great game play but the story lacks but in the heists you made a good point that there was some replay value there. It's just I don't care for the characters to replay, lol. I didn't finish my storyline playthough on Xbox One. Only on 360. I got frustrated with it. It's the least played GTA story I've even done.

 

@zuckmeslow: 

 

I get some people are tired with the Mafia thing and I was for a while. Then I watched the Sopranos again and you just realize how perfect Mafia crime translates in to a videogame like GTA. But it doesn't all have to be centered around the Mafia but I would like to see it again. Wiseguys have that banter (at least in the films) that the Irish and Scotish have. That breaking your balls humour that I love but then you look at the people in The Sopranos or real and they're psychopaths.  Or even if we got to see Russian mafia, Yakuza or Triads again. Irish mob would be great too. We have The Irishman film based on the book "I Heard You Paint Houses" which will be Martin Scorsese's new film with Robert De Niro, Joe Pesci, Al Pacino, Harvey Keitel and many more coming out. Would nice inspiration for a mob based GTA. I do understand why people might get bored of Mafia related games though. I'm completely biased as I love those sort of games and films. :p


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#23

Posted A week ago

i'm just simply pointing out a misuse of the word "return to roots", I have no idea why people are getting mad over my post but hey this is GTAF...

I have read your post all the way through, whilst I agree the 3D era had much better focus and evolved consistantly it still boils down to "develop gta like 3d era games again", which can't exactly be replicated since developing a game in current day is completely different from developing a game in the early 2000's, San Andreas was heavily built off Vice city as much as that game was built off GTA3, whilst with HD era games they can't build off the previous game as much because most of those assets would be outdated by the time the game releases.

I also wouldn't call 3D era gta "revolutionary" at all since GTA 3 was a GTA1/2 clone with third person and actual cutscenes, even so GTA 3 wasn't even the first third person open world game, it was just popular because it was an early PS2 launch window title.

As stated earlier in the thread, the true roots of GTA is mindless killing and car chases, not immersive cities and compelling stories despite how well GTA does these 2 factors.

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#24

Posted A week ago

As stated earlier in the thread, the true roots of GTA is mindless killing and car chases, not immersive cities and compelling stories despite how well GTA does these 2 factors.

 

In your own view and head yes, 100 percent correct.

 

As a general fact ? That's complete, utter bullsh*t. GTA encompasses all the aspects of gameplay you stated and more that give the player the freedom of choice as to how they perceive the game to be. 


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#25

Posted A week ago

As stated earlier in the thread, the true roots of GTA is mindless killing and car chases, not immersive cities and compelling stories despite how well GTA does these 2 factors.

 
In your own view and head yes, 100 percent correct.
 
As a general fact ? That's complete, utter bullsh*t. GTA encompasses all the aspects of gameplay you stated and more that give the player the freedom of choice as to how they perceive the game to be.

I get the impression that you only reply to me in an aggressive tone because my opinions offend you, thanks for reminding me on why people put you on their ignore list.

Ask yourself, what is the one thing that has been possible since the beginning of GTA? Obviously it's stealing cars and shooting people, or missions which have you do those things, it's really the only thing you can do in the originals and can easily be replicated in the later titles despite the focus being shifted, thats why I say it's the TRUE roots of GTA.

Now GTA does in fact excel at those aspects I mentioned, but it's not what it's roots are, don't confuse the two.

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#26

Posted A week ago

interesting thread. i think R* isn't going through some identity crisis they just made an error with the forced PvP gameplay. simple as that. they should have clearly separated weapons free mode and PvP mode. i don't know why they decided this maybe the criminality context, maybe it was part of some latent (or official) deal with T2 to make them approove their commercial scheme. personnally i'm asking only 2 things, Vice city and a weapons free freeroam world. i'm absolutely not into PvP and i don't want to cross the road of retards when i play a game





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