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R* currently working on making Solo Public Sales not possible.

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wosniies
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#691

Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:51 AM

The more solo session the more the burden on rockstar servers.

Inb4 hurr durr it's P2P...where do you think the information of each character is being stored?on your harddrive?, that's why the "saving has failed" occurs but people have their heads so far up their cheeks it's no comin back. 

Did you know that GTA uses your PS4 as a server? Thats why there can be a lot of lag when you and many others have poor connection, instead of a game who have a proper server base. So, there wont be much of a burden to either make the CEO work available in invite only or make a likewise session but as solo public, plus, I think more people would actually do the crates/IE if they did make solo public sessions available. 

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ShimmerDoll
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#692

Posted 06 October 2017 - 04:31 AM Edited by ShimmerDoll, 06 October 2017 - 04:39 AM.

I have a government connection and hardware firewall for when I play gta, but i can see everything that my connection interacts with. I log in through social club, playing solo, playing singleplayer, playing crew invite, playing public the only thing reporting to rockstar is that constant connection to social club. It's there no matter which way i choose to play and not straining any servers on their end. The rest of the public server is p2p. When in a public server i can see other players connecting to me and get alerts about it. block them and they'll drop instead of me dropping, and remain dropped forever from me.  Everyone else will stay. It's not taxing rockstar's servers solo or public as the social club connection reporting the stats is the only persistent rockstar connection i'm seeing. If rockstar won't stop the malicious players from joining, i exercise my right to prevent them from playing with me.

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ComradeKuma
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#693

Posted 06 October 2017 - 04:34 AM

I dunno man, I'm A+ certified and have some Cisco certifications, and while that diagram is simple yes, it looks good to me.

 

Your "connection" to Rockstar doesn't hold too much aside from transactions and maybe some authentication stuff, all the real sh*t is done on your own system.  so yeah, to make it really simple, every single person playing GTA Online has their own connection to Rockstar, be it a solo session or a session with other players.

 

Also, the hell does RAID have to do with network connections?  

 

You said: "If you have one server copying all data all the time then you split it to 4 more or better yet sub(lagging out) does that not increase the burden on the system?"

 

While that statement is true, it's...  missing the point.  The four players in your hypothetical session all have a connection to Rockstar, nothing about it really changes when they split up.  If anything, it makes it easier on their servers lol.

 

 

>Tmw you're just trolling and I've explained all this for nothing

 Cisco certifications?

its Cinco or nothing boi.


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#694

Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:15 AM

 

I dunno man, I'm A+ certified and have some Cisco certifications, and while that diagram is simple yes, it looks good to me.

 

Your "connection" to Rockstar doesn't hold too much aside from transactions and maybe some authentication stuff, all the real sh*t is done on your own system.  so yeah, to make it really simple, every single person playing GTA Online has their own connection to Rockstar, be it a solo session or a session with other players.

 

Also, the hell does RAID have to do with network connections?  

 

You said: "If you have one server copying all data all the time then you split it to 4 more or better yet sub(lagging out) does that not increase the burden on the system?"

 

While that statement is true, it's...  missing the point.  The four players in your hypothetical session all have a connection to Rockstar, nothing about it really changes when they split up.  If anything, it makes it easier on their servers lol.

 

 

>Tmw you're just trolling and I've explained all this for nothing

 Cisco certifications?

its Cinco or nothing boi.

 

That's...  that's spanish for 5?

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ComradeKuma
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#695

Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:21 AM

http://timanderic.wikia.com/wiki/Cinco

 

 

 

I dunno man, I'm A+ certified and have some Cisco certifications, and while that diagram is simple yes, it looks good to me.

 

Your "connection" to Rockstar doesn't hold too much aside from transactions and maybe some authentication stuff, all the real sh*t is done on your own system.  so yeah, to make it really simple, every single person playing GTA Online has their own connection to Rockstar, be it a solo session or a session with other players.

 

Also, the hell does RAID have to do with network connections?  

 

You said: "If you have one server copying all data all the time then you split it to 4 more or better yet sub(lagging out) does that not increase the burden on the system?"

 

While that statement is true, it's...  missing the point.  The four players in your hypothetical session all have a connection to Rockstar, nothing about it really changes when they split up.  If anything, it makes it easier on their servers lol.

 

 

>Tmw you're just trolling and I've explained all this for nothing

 Cisco certifications?

its Cinco or nothing boi.

 

That's...  that's spanish for 5?

 


elfoam
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#696

Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:22 AM

wtf did i just read... someone needs to google what peer to peer is.


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#697

Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:32 AM

wtf did i just read... someone needs to google what peer to peer is.

 

Maybe he thinks rockstar is the other peer  :p


Black-Dragon96
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#698

Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:48 AM

To be honest, at this point, I'm kind of thinking that Money transactions and Social club matchmaking is really all that happens on R*'s part.


Well add saving the character data (how your character looks, what he owns, etc) because you can remove the entire game from your sytem and still play with your character afterwards.

7 people in solo sessions: 7 connections to Rockstar.
7 people in a session together: 7 connections to Rockstar.


Exactly.

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#699

Posted 06 October 2017 - 07:06 AM

 

To be honest, at this point, I'm kind of thinking that Money transactions and Social club matchmaking is really all that happens on R*'s part.


Well add saving the character data (how your character looks, what he owns, etc) because you can remove the entire game from your sytem and still play with your character afterwards.

 

Yeah, that too!

 

 

7 people in solo sessions: 7 connections to Rockstar.
7 people in a session together: 7 connections to Rockstar.


Exactly.

 

<3


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#700

Posted 06 October 2017 - 07:16 AM Edited by Furry_Monkey, 06 October 2017 - 07:18 AM.

It's not possible to quantify without hard evidence.

 

1 player in a session only needs 1 lot of player data going to/from the Rockstar servers (just player data - we know that's stored on, and served from, their servers).  10 players in a session needs every player to receive every other player's data, so 10 lots of data going up to the server, but 10x10 being sent from the server.  In that respect it's actually an exponential amount more load when there are multiple players in a single session.

 

However, the servers also keep track of sessions, so while 10 session with a single player in each means less player data being downloaded, it also means the servers are keeping 10 sessions alive.  This sounds like less load to me, but I don't know exactly what that session data holds.

 

I'm just being honest and trying to be pragmatic - we do not know the facts, but we can surmise on the most likely truth.

 

Besides, they haven't stopped solo work and we know that if they did, it would not be for infrastructure reasons.

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Black-Dragon96
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#701

Posted 06 October 2017 - 07:36 AM

10 players in a session needs every player to receive every other player's data, so 10 lots of data going up to the server, but 10x10 being sent from the server.


Here is where you are a bit wrong, imo.
Yes these 10 players each load their character data from the servers, however the datatransfer between players in a session is handled by the sessions host aka. one of the players. Thats the reason why it sometimes takes ages that a job gets launched or that the game is laggy as f*ck.

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#702

Posted 06 October 2017 - 07:43 AM

It's not possible to quantify without hard evidence.
 
1 player in a session only needs 1 lot of player data going to/from the Rockstar servers (just player data - we know that's stored on, and served from, their servers).  10 players in a session needs every player to receive every other player's data, so 10 lots of data going up to the server, but 10x10 being sent from the server.  In that respect it's actually an exponential amount more load when there are multiple players in a single session.
 
However, the servers also keep track of sessions, so while 10 session with a single player in each means less player data being downloaded, it also means the servers are keeping 10 sessions alive.  This sounds like less load to me, but I don't know exactly what that session data holds.
 
I'm just being honest and trying to be pragmatic - we do not know the facts, but we can surmise on the most likely truth.
 
Besides, they haven't stopped solo work and we know that if they did, it would not be for infrastructure reasons.


Is player to player data not P2P then? Player A logs on, downloads their data, appears in a session with Player B. Player B gets Player A's data from Player A not the server. The only consistent data transfer between Rockstar servers and the player is when they load in or when they regularly save progress. There is no consistent data transfer feeding the other 31 player's data to you and the other 30 players in a session, it's all done P2P.

There have been times that Rockstar's servers have gone down yet, provided you're online in a session, you can continue to play with the only issue being "Saving Failed...". Does this not indicate that player data is transferred to and from each player to each player rather than via a server?

Either way is irrelevant as infrastructure is not the reason Rockstar implemented the restrictions for public sales, nor is it the reason why they have attempted to stop solo public lobbies.
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Black-Dragon96
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#703

Posted 06 October 2017 - 08:56 AM

^ Wow, I never though that this will happen, but I 100% agree with your post.

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#704

Posted 06 October 2017 - 10:47 AM

 

10 players in a session needs every player to receive every other player's data, so 10 lots of data going up to the server, but 10x10 being sent from the server.


Here is where you are a bit wrong, imo.
Yes these 10 players each load their character data from the servers, however the datatransfer between players in a session is handled by the sessions host aka. one of the players. Thats the reason why it sometimes takes ages that a job gets launched or that the game is laggy as f*ck.

 

 

I've made an assumption there, you're right.  It's a toss-up between sending your data to the server and every other player, or sending it to the server where every other player downloads it.  We know player data is shared (some of it, at least) but we don't know the specifics of it.  I should really just watch the traffic at some point, out of curiosity more than anything else.

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#705

Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:21 PM Edited by JuniorChubb, 06 October 2017 - 12:23 PM.

Thank goodness some adults came in to discuss things... so much more enjoyable to read whether it is right or wrong it is better than posts littered with gifs.
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SaltyGTAFMember
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#706

Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:18 PM

Thread derailed so hard, @RedDagger isn't it time to lock this thread.

Post 2 gifs..people on my nuts then post cockstar this..cosckstar that "it's ok" This is why most people on here need to be smarter than a 5th grader

 

Here let me explain gtaf level:

You blow up car it saves

You buy car it saves

You kill yourself it saves 

 

Npcs spawns it loads 

Cars spawn it loads

Events happen it loads

 

When you log into gtaonline it loads the resources to be placed on the map(yes the map is on the disk itself with all the static items

 

Example #1

Player 1 logs into gta and only person there(He gives all the information from rockstar server), does that mean rockstar server does nothing while player does all the work " which is what some people are saying on here but that's just stupid"

 

Example #2

Player 1 creates the lobby so they communicate with rockstar to get the resources than later down the line 2 other players join hence P2P. They decide to cheat their way into  solo lobbies when means both of them forced their way out and rockstar server have to make a copy of Player1 session for both these guys which takes even more resources while loading+saving at the same time

 

Here is my question...Why don't your online experience quit out it you lag out on gtaonline like everyother game that using p2p?


Black-Dragon96
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#707

Posted 06 October 2017 - 07:00 PM Edited by Black-Dragon96, 06 October 2017 - 07:37 PM.

^ Answer to your question:
It makes you the host of the "new" lagged out session.
I ones were able to play online even when my internet cut out during playing. I were alone in the session and I got the saving failed message but I could still drive around. To this day I have no idea how that worked because I expected a "connection to gta online lost" message and a kick to storymode, but it was running without any problem. Welk i could not buy or sell anything, I/E was also not working but i was able to stay in the lone session until half an hour later when I menaged to get the connection back. It saved again and I was able to join my friends.

You btw seem to have no idea what you are talking about. Your examples make no sense.

Edit:
To add something to your example 1. Yes its you or better your console/PC that does all the work. Rockstars Server only saves and load your data thats all. Your console/PC basicly becomes "the server".
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SaltyGTAFMember
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#708

Posted 06 October 2017 - 07:52 PM

To add something to your example 1. Yes its you or better your console/PC that does all the work. Rockstars Server only saves and load your data thats all. Your console/PC basicly becomes "the server".

You ed or something 


Black-Dragon96
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#709

Posted 06 October 2017 - 08:25 PM

^ ed means what?

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#710

Posted 06 October 2017 - 08:38 PM Edited by theNGclan, 06 October 2017 - 08:41 PM.

DoucheBagForum, allow me to break this down for you; and I'll be sure to use small words so you'll be sure to understand.

GTA Online is p2p, and uses the Rockstar Cloud Services (RCS) to store your character data. Saves are triggered by select events, such as automated time-based saves (while in free mode), completing certain objectives like business sales / re supplies and saving before you close the game naturally. It doesn't save every time you pick up cash, die, or kill someone.

So if there is a 30 player session, 30 players are saving every so often, not at the same time though. That's 30 connection to RCS. If the session splits in half, so two sessions with 15 players, there is still 30 connections to the RSC, making literally no difference to the cloud system since sessions are just P2P.

All games sessions do is handle missions, objectives, and house other .#SC scripts (the scripts for anything that isn't handled by the engine), players vs players vs environment information (aka combat) and coordinates. Coordinates can be saved to RCS though. But regardless, these sessions are NOT CONTROLLED BY A SERVER. They are handled between players, hence peer-to-peer.

The Rockstar Services handle prices of content, toggle what content is available, help in matchmaking, process transactions, and your save game progress. Nothing more, pal.

The reason why GTA Online can continue to play is because of how the system works - Network mode can adapt to players, and can survive when bridges to other players are burned. It's just how it is. There are less limitations compared to previous versions of the network framework (were using a modified network mode from IV, mind you). You don't know what you're talking about, so just stop lol.

Sorry for any typos, I'm on mobile.
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#711

Posted 06 October 2017 - 09:25 PM

DoucheBagForum, allow me to break this down for you; and I'll be sure to use small words so you'll be sure to understand.

GTA Online is p2p, and uses the Rockstar Cloud Services (RCS) to store your character data. Saves are triggered by select events, such as automated time-based saves (while in free mode), completing certain objectives like business sales / re supplies and saving before you close the game naturally. It doesn't save every time you pick up cash, die, or kill someone.

So if there is a 30 player session, 30 players are saving every so often, not at the same time though. That's 30 connection to RCS. If the session splits in half, so two sessions with 15 players, there is still 30 connections to the RSC, making literally no difference to the cloud system since sessions are just P2P.

All games sessions do is handle missions, objectives, and house other .#SC scripts (the scripts for anything that isn't handled by the engine), players vs players vs environment information (aka combat) and coordinates. Coordinates can be saved to RCS though. But regardless, these sessions are NOT CONTROLLED BY A SERVER. They are handled between players, hence peer-to-peer.

The Rockstar Services handle prices of content, toggle what content is available, help in matchmaking, process transactions, and your save game progress. Nothing more, pal.

The reason why GTA Online can continue to play is because of how the system works - Network mode can adapt to players, and can survive when bridges to other players are burned. It's just how it is. There are less limitations compared to previous versions of the network framework (were using a modified network mode from IV, mind you). You don't know what you're talking about, so just stop lol.

Sorry for any typos, I'm on mobile.

Yes that's a good theory but is it confirmed 100% or do you work at rockstar to know their infrastructure? 


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#712

Posted 06 October 2017 - 10:49 PM Edited by theNGclan, 06 October 2017 - 10:51 PM.

It's not a theory, you're just ignorant.

It's not necessary for us to work for Rockstar to know these things. Believe it or not, this community has some very crafty revenge engineers, including those who have reworked the network mode framework and documented game mission scripts.

We have the ability to check the inner workings of the game, including recompiled .YSC scripts - so we can see most of what goes on in the client side of things. With what we can see, we can tel what info gets sent to Rockstar, so that's about all we can tell from that.

You're more than welcome to take a peek under the hood of the game, and view the publically released decomposed game scripts if you want see for yourself. https://www.gta5-mod...ed-scripts-b757
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#713

Posted 07 October 2017 - 01:01 AM Edited by DoucheBagForum, 07 October 2017 - 01:01 AM.

But you still didn't answer my question

I know some of you guys are a little behind, Do you work for rockstar?


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#714

Posted 07 October 2017 - 01:51 AM Edited by theNGclan, 07 October 2017 - 01:54 AM.

You're not very keen to facts, that's obvious now.

 

I stated:

 

It's not necessary for us to work for Rockstar to know these things.

 

You should have read that and thought "oh, I guess that's a no!" (News flash, it is a no, but that doesn't matter). I'm going to assume you probably didn't read anything in my posts, so I'll reiterate - we have documentation on how the game works and with this we can make intelligent guesses (alongside confirmations) with what we do have. We have decompiled game scripts available (https://www.gta5-mod...ed-scripts-b757) which can be downloaded publically and read by anybody. These scripts are the same exact scripts sessions handle, and your client reports positive or negative stats from the executed scripts.

 

And before I continue, my credentials are far more valid than yours as I've been spending years creating mods for this franchise - and many others. I have a good understanding of how most of this stuff works, especially models, that's my forte. But I have a very good understanding for how this game works, and I've been playing GTA V and GTA Online religiously since it came out.

 

Anyhow, Absolutely nothing is affected on Rockstar's servers when a session diverges. 30 players split into 30 lobbies is still 30 connections on the Rockstar Games Services. This game doesn't have dedicated servers, so your argument that "it generates more sessions which takes a toll on their services" is completely false, and can be disregarded as misinformation.

 

Your claims about the game saving are false. The game saves periodically (based on a timer, I believe it's five minutes?) when you're in freemode, but the game is also instructed to invoke saving when you complete certain work, purchase a shark card (after the cash is deployed), or close the game / exit to story mode. If the game saved every single action you did, the services would be getting slammed with save information more so than they are already, and would also mean that the game couldn't continue for a short while without an internet connection (because it can survive for a bit, but once you regain internet access it backs out incase of any sort of stat manipulation while you were disconnected from the servers).

 

You should really take the time to read if you're going to be posting on a forum. You should really just change your name from "DoucheBagForum" to just Douche Bag, beacuse you only seem to be here to say stupid incoherent nonsense without any evidence. I have provided evidence, explanations, and even broken it down into simple terms for you - but clearly that isn't enough.

 

I suggest you download archive with the decompiled game scripts so you can get an idea about how network mode handles objectives, stats, and everything inbetween. However, this will require you to be savvy with programming to be able to understand it - which I doubt you have that skill - so unfortunately you'll just see an entirely different language.

 

Regardless, I've explained how this works, I've taken the time to humor you, and if you respond with another batch of ignorance I'll just rule you as a troll or a complete moron. Do with the information as you will.

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#715

Posted 07 October 2017 - 11:43 AM

I know some of you guys are a little behind, Do you work for rockstar?

Last chance, stop the belittling attitude.
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#716

Posted 07 October 2017 - 01:04 PM

I have a government connection and hardware firewall for when I play gta, but i can see everything that my connection interacts with. I log in through social club, playing solo, playing singleplayer, playing crew invite, playing public the only thing reporting to rockstar is that constant connection to social club. It's there no matter which way i choose to play and not straining any servers on their end. The rest of the public server is p2p. When in a public server i can see other players connecting to me and get alerts about it. block them and they'll drop instead of me dropping, and remain dropped forever from me.  Everyone else will stay. It's not taxing rockstar's servers solo or public as the social club connection reporting the stats is the only persistent rockstar connection i'm seeing. If rockstar won't stop the malicious players from joining, i exercise my right to prevent them from playing with me.

 

Oh, mai, goggles. I want this.





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