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What was so bad about Ray Boccino?

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Journey_95
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#1

Posted 23 July 2017 - 05:53 PM Edited by Journey_95, 24 July 2017 - 03:07 AM.

Everyone acts like he is a snake and a dick but I really don't remember anything bad he did. He actually seemed to like Ashley, helped Niko find Bernie, gave Johnny an option until the latter f*cked him over etc.

 

I think he was the best character from the Pergorino family, Phil was kind of bland and Jimmy was a joke.

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Jeansowaty
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#2

Posted 23 July 2017 - 06:02 PM

I think that Phil was the rat to Pegorino. I thought that Ray was a good guy, he may have been a bit of a dick but if I was caught up in sh*t like that and everyone would start backstabbing me (Johnny, Isaac, Pegorino and Niko) then I wouldn't be so nice either. It was kinda sad how he was offed so quickly, wish we at least had a cutscene where he and Niko exchange words before Ray gets killed.

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#3

Posted 23 July 2017 - 06:24 PM

Don't blame R*. Blame Jimmy Peg as he had to make a choice.

 

Glad the f*cker dies at the end.


B Dawg
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#4

Posted 23 July 2017 - 07:05 PM

Yeah pretty much. Ray Boccino was a good guy who ended up being a victim because of his stupid paranoid boss.

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Mr_Rager
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#5

Posted 23 July 2017 - 07:09 PM

Ray is the most just f*ck my sh*t up character in IV. Alone in a restaurant, hiring mostly retards, being Pegs young boy when he's like 37 and 6'4, getting ripped off by bikers for no reason, getting killed in favor of a paranoid fat Irishman. Doesn't even get a cutscene for his death either.
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MaTeeeS
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#6

Posted 23 July 2017 - 07:12 PM

No more bowling calls :)


Mr_Rager
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#7

Posted 23 July 2017 - 07:14 PM

Have to admit that every car ride with Phil is elder God tier /comfy/
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SabreGT
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#8

Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:15 PM Edited by SabreGT7, 23 July 2017 - 09:17 PM.

Yeah, he wasn't quite the slimeball he was made out to be.

 

It was Johnny who betrayed him & he kept his word to Niko 

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Neon_Dreaming
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#9

Posted 24 July 2017 - 05:59 PM Edited by Neon_Dreaming, 24 July 2017 - 06:00 PM.

He was one of those characters where you were just waiting for him to double cross his accociates, but he never did. A slimeball sure but not a backstabber. Plus the mission where you take him out is cool as it has plenty of replay value.

I usually just use the rpg when they stop for fuel.
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Femme Fatale
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#10

Posted 24 July 2017 - 06:17 PM Edited by Femme Fatale, 24 July 2017 - 06:17 PM.

I liked him, shame that R* decided to remove the option to kill him, or Phil. I would've chosen the latter.

TakeshiSantos
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#11

Posted 24 July 2017 - 11:03 PM

I'll be straight: Phil was a great guy. Between him and Boccino, he was more smart, more patient and more cautious. But I don't see why Ray deserves hate. Sure, he was cocky as f*ck and many characters through the story said that he was a snake and a backstabber (which is way too ironic, as he was ripped by both Luca's Crew and Johnny), but anyway he helped Niko and Packie.

 

He had good plans but choose bad people to do it, he ended up being in all sorts of trouble. In TLaD, Jim kills his henchman and he was clearly upset about it, I kinda felt bad about them.

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Algonquin Assassin
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#12

Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:07 AM

I liked him, shame that R* decided to remove the option to kill him, or Phil. I would've chosen the latter.

Yeah. It sucks that "Pest Control" wasn't a choice like it was going to be. I think it would've been the biggest dillema out of all of them as neither Ray or Phil done anything to Niko to screw him over.

When I think of Ray though this meme always comes to mind...

d8cc5089c7d81afe77e298fecb9e6281.png
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Jeansowaty
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#13

Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:35 AM

Now when I look at it and after playing GTA CTW all over, I'm having an idea - would y'all like a GTA IV prequel set in 2007 with Ray as a protagonist? I think it would work out nicely to see him from a different angle.


HaythamKenway
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#14

Posted 26 July 2017 - 10:06 AM Edited by HaythamKenway, 26 July 2017 - 10:07 AM.

Ray is a shlub who got way over his head. He's someone who wants to be the chessmaster, the boss, the operator, but he doesn't actually know how to play the game and thus ends up alienating and raising suspicion in everyone around him. He puts stock in the wrong people, overestimates his influence and grasps for bigger prizes than he can realistically achieve in his present position, therefore his plans always backfire in his face. He's ambitious, brash, arrogant and shows it, and so people perceive him as even bigger threat than he is, even though he's actually more scurpulous and trustworthy than many people around him.

 

I'd argue he's possibly even a better person than Phil, because Phil actually is savvy enough to navigate his surroundings with the cutthroat mentality that requires. He understands how things need to be done, the volatile reality his kind inhabits. Phil is deliberately written to be his exact opposite - cunning, analytical, cautious, inconspicuous. But all those qualities can turn against you if the situation requires it. That he has the business figured out so well, to the point he realizes his own fragile vulnerability, is only a result of his being so good at the business in the first place. Phil and Ray also clearly parallel Dimitri and Faustin and I don't believe for a moment that the similarities are incidental.

 

Ray is another wonderful example of the deceptive subtlety of Houser's script. Just like with so many other characters, the image of Ray being a treacherous snake, is so obvious, so enforced, so hammered in the minds of both the audience and the protagonists themselves, that so many people, both in universe and out of it, still miss the flagrant reality beneath that.

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Queen Elizabeth II
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#15

Posted 26 July 2017 - 05:17 PM

I have never understood why Niko hated him so much.

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theGTAking101
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#16

Posted 27 July 2017 - 12:18 AM Edited by theGTAking101, 27 July 2017 - 12:19 AM.

Ray was one of my favorite characters. Yes he was impatient and easily angered, but he never betrayed anyone. First he got f*cked over by Johnny, and then by Jimmy. I felt bad killing him, especially since he helped us find Florian. He seemed to actually care about Niko.

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Cebra
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#17

Posted 27 July 2017 - 02:53 AM Edited by Cebra, 27 July 2017 - 05:05 AM.

You can tell that Rockstar made a last minute change when it comes to the Pegorino family. Ray's supposedly a capo - he's got his own crew, he orders people around, he's the liaison with the McReary family, and the LCPD database supports it. Everyone talks about him like he's the big greedy boogeyman who'll do anything to get ahead, and people respect him out of fear. He's bossy, he owns front businesses, he has the air of someone who knows their sh*t and takes no sh*t from anyone else. The first thing to notice is that despite the fact that I'd say he looks like he's in his mid 40s, the LCPD database has him born in 1976. I highly doubt a 32 year old would be a capo in any crime family, even the Pegorinos. 

 

In Phil's strand of missions, he and Niko talk about how Ray is the greediest motherf*cker around, a rat willing to betray anyone for a buck and some temporary prestige so that one day he'll reach Phil's position in the family. Little issue - Phil's only an associate, the lowest order in the pyramid. Ray, the capo, has already gone from associate to being made to being promoted to capo - if that's the case, he's already a sh*tload more influential than Phil will ever be. Adding to this is Jimmy's comments in Pegorino's Pride that the family is losing even more respect from the five families because Phil - the Irishman - holds such a high position in the family. Mafia families need people like Phil (mixed Irish-Italian) to hold down the fort. Henry Hill was mixed and so was Jimmy Burke, two of the most memorable mobsters of the past half century - it was commonplace. Jimmy's comment would only make sense if Phil had been made (i.e. soldier, capo); that would indeed be sacrilege to mafia tradition. Then there's the little details - when we first meet Phil in No Way on the Subway, he seems to be in charge of the conversation between Ray, Niko and himself - telling Niko that he and Ray are gonna have a problem, and taunting Ray that he keeps forgetting to tell Jimmy about things he's working on. Also, Phil's nine years Ray's senior - it would make sense that the older one would hold the higher position. Jimmy always talks about how Phil came in first, he's always been a trusted friend and his closest adviser, while Ray is the slimeball trying to work his way up the ladder no matter who he pushes off on the way. That considered, why would he have Ray made and keep Phil back, while at the same time griping about how he shouldn't have given Phil such a high position?

 

And yet despite all this, Ray is officially the capo and Phil the associate. They put this in plain words in Pest Control, when Ray taunts him about it. I believe that the two of them were originally opposites - Ray was the dirtbag hustler who would do anything to get ahead because he wasn't getting attention - all the work he puts in for Pegorino and he's still an associate. Phil was the capo - a complete violation of ancient mafia tradition - who always was the trustworthy one with Jimmy's ear. He follows orders, he's loyal to a fault, and he never wavers. If you wanna go a bit further with this, the whole Pest Control plot surrounds Jimmy thinking there's a rat in their midst, but it's never revealed if it was in fact Ray. This last minute flip by Rockstar considered, I think it's plausible that Ray was the rat after all - he's characterized as someone always pushing ahead no matter the cost, so when he sees the Pegorino family falling apart, he jumps ship. I don't know if he would go to the FIB or turn to another family, but it makes sense. As Jimmy says about Ray in his first mission: "Only way you know there's a rat is by finding their sh*t all over the place in the morning." Indeed - when Niko takes him out, the sh*t is all over the walls - the Pegorinos are reduced to nothing. After Ray's in the dust: "Cleaning house is a tough job, Bellic. I don't got much left in mine, it's so clean."

 

----

 

That said, I also agree that I never found Ray to be particularly cutthroat or slimy. He was brash, loud, confrontational - but he always upheld his part of the deal, and in the process got screwed by Johnny K, Niko, and ultimately his own boss. I think you can tie that into my theory above; despite how people perceive him, he was always the victim. He cared for Ashley, he helped Niko find Florian Cravic, and Jimmy even says he's his best earner. And despite all these traits everyone thought he was a self-serving sleazeball - at that point, what's left but to rat? He goes through his entire life being called a rat, and ultimately it comes true: driven by those very comments. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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Queen Elizabeth II
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#18

Posted 27 July 2017 - 10:29 AM

Rockstar Games just can't make a proper Mafia story. 

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confederatestatesgta
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#19

Posted 28 July 2017 - 05:16 AM

yea i liked ray. it always upset me when everybody made him out to be a bad guy yet he is the one that is fair and honest. he helped niko. offered johnny good work. sure johnny did not like him but its work. he should have just took it. i also wish we could have had the ray vs phil choice. they are both good characters. i dont think he was a rat either. i love that meme about him though. its so true. i know we got a lot of ray but i kind of wish there was some missions were ray goes with you and actually spend time with him and learn about him. i love the car dialouges. there could be some good ones with ray.

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Jeansowaty
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#20

Posted 28 July 2017 - 11:22 AM

Rockstar Games just can't make a proper Mafia story. 

Sorry for off-topic:

 

LCS is a plain example of it. Sorry to say but it sucked ass. Which mafia family wears tight suits 24/7? :pp Max Payne did a better job at portraying the Punchinello Mob.

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Mr_Rager
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#21

Posted 29 July 2017 - 08:27 AM

Rockstar Games just can't make a proper Mafia story. 

Sorry for off-topic:
 
LCS is a plain example of it. Sorry to say but it sucked ass. Which mafia family wears tight suits 24/7? :pp Max Payne did a better job at portraying the Punchinello Mob.
Could I argue that since the Leone family was already portrayed in III LCS is a portrayal of the Leone family not a real Mafia

Gunnalingus
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#22

Posted 02 August 2017 - 10:35 PM

They tried to depict Ray as classic greedy bad guy who wouldn't stop at anything for money and power. But I liked him. The guy who did voice acting was also superb. He always treated Niko well and paid well compared to other guys.

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#23

Posted 03 August 2017 - 12:33 AM Edited by Johnny Spaz, 03 August 2017 - 12:34 AM.

Ray is the GOAT tbh, kept his word for Niko, his missions were awesome, paid well, had a cool accent, etc.

His boss was just a paranoid dumb ass, no wonder he was out of commission.

I wish Johnny had killed him though, for f*cking his girl of course.
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Axl Rose
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#24

Posted 04 August 2017 - 02:20 AM

I liked Ray but i was partial to all the mob guys.

 

Still waiting for a proper Mafia game. Mafia II was on the right track but ultimately let me down.  


Luke Ferris
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#25

Posted 4 weeks ago

Being told that Ray fed some poor devil into a trash compactor was good enough for me to have Niko terminate him.


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#26

Posted 3 weeks ago

I liked Ray until I played TLAD, then I was glad I killed him.
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Tao Cheng
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#27

Posted 3 weeks ago

I have never understood why Niko hated him so much.


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B Dawg
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#28

Posted 3 weeks ago

I liked Ray until I played TLAD, then I was glad I killed him.

What made you hate him in TLAD?

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KGBeast
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#29

Posted 3 weeks ago

Boccino is used to mean snitch in Italian. His name is very literally RaT Snitch.


Steezy.
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#30

Posted 2 weeks ago

I liked Ray until I played TLAD, then I was glad I killed him.

What made you hate him in TLAD?

I dunno, he was more of an asshole in that game imo. He got Jim killed (Of course, it was Niko who did it, but Ray ordered it), and I really liked him.




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