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Special ammo types - results by numbers are in!

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Gaffa™
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#1

Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:32 PM Edited by Gaffa™, 13 July 2017 - 02:10 AM.

So over the last few weeks, there's been a bit of confusion and indecisiveness over whether to upgrade to Mk.2 weapons, and not only that, but whether it's worth reducing your overall ammunition and magazine capacity, in favour of special ammo which may (or may not) be more effective against certain things. I'll say now ahead of time - every Mk.2 weapon performs better than their original counterpart in at least one field. 

 

These tests took about 2 weeks to do - which was probably five days in GTA V and Online testing things and then the rest of it was making my notes and drawing up a table for easier reading. 

 

Anyway, enough with the spiel, onto the important stuff... this post won't be short, hence all the spoilers. If that's too much for your eyes, I'd suggest using the table (spreadsheet) version linked below.  

 

Alternative version of this post.

Table of weapon and bullet stats (change this by clicking at the bottom of the spreadsheet).

 

 

 

GTA V and Online - Special Ammo Types - Testing & Results

 

Some important notes - please check first:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Stock ammunition, known as "base damage":


! Same damage to vehicles and personnel, as with other firearms in the game.

Spoiler

 

 


Tracer rounds, "Bullets with bright visible markers that match the tint of the gun - random chance":

! Only differences from stock ammunition are the particles / effects of the tracers and max ammo count is different, as follows:

Overall / Magazine (Total):

 

Pistol Mk.2 :- 348 / 12 (360)
SMG Mk.2 :- 330 / 30 (360)
Assault Rifle Mk.2 :- 330 / 30 (360)
Carbine Rifle Mk.2 :- 330 / 30 (360)
Combat MG Mk.2 :- 500 / 100 (600)

 

 

 

Hollow Point rounds, "Increased damage to targets without body armour":

 

! If a player or ped is wearing body armour, these bullets will do less than base damage - they only get a boost in damage when they're depleting health.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Incendiary rounds, "A random chance to set targets on fire when shot":

! Fire will remove an extra 165-175 health from peds (NPCs), but its much less from players.

! STK (Shots To Kill) has been calculated with enemies that were fireproof (in case none of your bullets set the target on fire).

Spoiler

 

 

 

Armour Piercing (AP) rounds, "Increased penetration of body armor":

! AP bullets will do 10% extra damage of the Damage Per Round to ped & player armour.
! Damage is dealt to both health and armour at the same time.

! STK is identical whether they're wearing armour or not usually, as the player's health will be fully depleted before their armour is. 
! No extra effectiveness against vehicles, armoured or not.

Spoiler

 

 

 

Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) rounds, "Increased damage to vehicles. Also penetrates bullet resistant glass":

! Will break through armoured vehicle's glass and do damage to the person inside in just one shot.
! FMJ rounds do exactly double (2x) base damage to vehicles.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Explosive rounds, "KaBOOM":

Spoiler

 

Hopefully this information will have been of some use to people. Good luck in your rampages!

Overall, here's my recommendations for weapons and ammo types :-

 

Pistol Mk.2 = Hollow Point rounds 

SMG Mk.2 = FMJ rounds

Assault Rifle Mk.2 = Armour Piercing rounds

Carbine Rifle Mk.2 = Standard ammunition

Combat MG Mk.2 = Incendiary rounds or standard ammunition

Heavy Sniper Mk.2 = Explosive rounds. 

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Nossirag
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#2

Posted 12 July 2017 - 10:32 PM

Wow good work. It's interesting to see how varied the tests from all over the web have been regarding these new ammo types.
For instance your tests show that AP rounds do not change the DPR, but Central Gaming Hub showed a difference in time to kill between the standard ammo and the AP rounds.
Thank you for testing this stuff out.
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Blasterman4EVER
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#3

Posted 12 July 2017 - 10:39 PM

Thank you for debunking the idiotic conspiracy that the enhanced magazines do not deal more damage than standard magazines.
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Nossirag
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#4

Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:20 PM

Thank you for debunking the idiotic conspiracy that the enhanced magazines do not deal more damage than standard magazines.


Seems to me, from Gaffa's post, there is a variation in damage levels depending on the ammo type.
For instance in Gaffa's post he shows the Pistol MKII doing 32 DPR with standard ammo, 28.8125 DPR with FMJ ammo, and 48 DPR against unarmored targets with Hollowpoint Ammo.
So this "idiotic conspiracy" that special ammo can deal less damage is actually partially true.
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Blasterman4EVER
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#5

Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:31 PM Edited by Blasterman4EVER, 12 July 2017 - 11:35 PM.

 

Thank you for debunking the idiotic conspiracy that the enhanced magazines do not deal more damage than standard magazines.


Seems to me, from Gaffa's post, there is a variation in damage levels depending on the ammo type.
For instance in Gaffa's post he shows the Pistol MKII doing 32 DPR with standard ammo, 28.8125 DPR with FMJ ammo, and 48 DPR against unarmored targets with Hollowpoint Ammo.
So this "idiotic conspiracy" that special ammo can deal less damage is actually partially true.

 

No. The conspiracy is not true. And the conspiracy is idiotic, because it has absolutely no factual basis.

What are you talking about? What did you read?

He verified that the enhanced magazine types (besides the tracer rounds) deal more damage....... What are you talking about, seriously?

What in the hell is going on here? The fact that anyone even had to do a test to verify this is an insult to everyone with the intelligence to play the game and see the results in real time. Good grief.

Variation in ammo type damage does not equal enhanced magazines not dealing more damage. That is the fallacy of false equivalency. What is the problem with people and basic logic in this forum?!?!?!?!?!?


The only real concern regarding the enhanced magazines is the ridiculously smaller cartridge/clip sizes. Now that is worth complaining about or questioning.

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Gaffa™
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#6

Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:34 PM Edited by Gaffa™, 12 July 2017 - 11:36 PM.

Yeah, it's very strange, and when you throw in how some bullets will do one damage point less / more, it's a bit all-over-the-place. The Mk.2 weapons on their own should be enough though. I did some tests regarding how NPCs reacted in missions and gang attacks (and others) with both the original and upgraded variants, and it was mostly one bullet difference at most. 

I guess people should probably say "am I going to use any special ammo types" and if the answer to that is yes, then consider what their play style is and how much cash you've got to spare. Whilst the Combat MG Mk.2 with FMJ rounds will make short work of vehicles, it's high rate of fire and base damage already makes it good, so if you've only got a few hundred thousand, you could prefer to stick with the standard ammunition.. 

 

Another thing to consider is - there's been quite a number of complaints about people losing ammo in certain guns when they have special ammo purchased for the another rifle of the same class, etc, and it's not just one magazine's worth they're losing - it's over 9000 rounds in most cases (standard ammo). This may be more of a console thing, and it should hopefully (?) get fixed in the future anyway, but that's definitely something to keep in mind. 

 

EDIT - Blaster - some of the ammo types definitely deal less damage. FMJ rounds will do LESS damage than standard ammunition against players - that's just one example. 

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Nossirag
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#7

Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:49 PM

 

Thank you for debunking the idiotic conspiracy that the enhanced magazines do not deal more damage than standard magazines.

Seems to me, from Gaffa's post, there is a variation in damage levels depending on the ammo type.
For instance in Gaffa's post he shows the Pistol MKII doing 32 DPR with standard ammo, 28.8125 DPR with FMJ ammo, and 48 DPR against unarmored targets with Hollowpoint Ammo.
So this "idiotic conspiracy" that special ammo can deal less damage is actually partially true.
 
No. The conspiracy is not true. And the conspiracy is idiotic, because it has absolutely no factual basis.

What are you talking about? What did you read?

He verified that the enhanced magazine types (besides the tracer rounds) deal more damage....... What are you talking about, seriously?

What in the hell is going on here? The fact that anyone even had to do a test to verify this is an insult to everyone with the intelligence to play the game and see the results in real time. Good grief.

Variation in ammo type damage does not equal enhanced magazines not dealing more damage. That is the fallacy of false equivalency. What is the problem with people and basic logic in this forum?!?!?!?!?!?


The only real concern regarding the enhanced magazines is the ridiculously smaller cartridge/clip sizes. Now that is worth complaining about or questioning.

Looks like someone is either lacking in reading comprehension skills or failed to give Gaffa's informative post a detailed look through.. Blasterman if you didn't bother reading all of Gaffa's post why are you even commenting on this thread?

Anyone reading this thread should disregard Blasterman's incorrect information and have a good read into the original post as it clearly shows variations in damage output based on ammo type for MKII weapons.
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ash-274
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#8

Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:54 PM

Just one question: Can the SMG MkII be used by a driver inside a car (barring any other reason why a driver can't shoot out of a given vehicle)?


Gaffa™
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#9

Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:56 PM

Just one question: Can the SMG MkII be used by a driver inside a car (barring any other reason why a driver can't shoot out of a given vehicle)?

 

No sorry, AP Pistol is still king (but only just). 


ash-274
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#10

Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:04 AM Edited by ash-274, 13 July 2017 - 12:08 AM.

 

 

 

Thank you for debunking the idiotic conspiracy that the enhanced magazines do not deal more damage than standard magazines.

Seems to me, from Gaffa's post, there is a variation in damage levels depending on the ammo type.
For instance in Gaffa's post he shows the Pistol MKII doing 32 DPR with standard ammo, 28.8125 DPR with FMJ ammo, and 48 DPR against unarmored targets with Hollowpoint Ammo.
So this "idiotic conspiracy" that special ammo can deal less damage is actually partially true.
 
No. The conspiracy is not true. And the conspiracy is idiotic, because it has absolutely no factual basis.

What are you talking about? What did you read?

He verified that the enhanced magazine types (besides the tracer rounds) deal more damage....... What are you talking about, seriously?

What in the hell is going on here? The fact that anyone even had to do a test to verify this is an insult to everyone with the intelligence to play the game and see the results in real time. Good grief.

Variation in ammo type damage does not equal enhanced magazines not dealing more damage. That is the fallacy of false equivalency. What is the problem with people and basic logic in this forum?!?!?!?!?!?


The only real concern regarding the enhanced magazines is the ridiculously smaller cartridge/clip sizes. Now that is worth complaining about or questioning.

Looks like someone is either lacking in reading comprehension skills or failed to give Gaffa's informative post a detailed look through.. Blasterman if you didn't bother reading all of Gaffa's post why are you even commenting on this thread?

Anyone reading this thread should disregard Blasterman's incorrect information and have a good read into the original post as it clearly shows variations in damage output based on ammo type for MKII weapons.

 

Actually, Blasterman is right:

 

Question: "Does the MkII standard ammo cause less damage than MkI ammo?"

Answer: No.  Every MkII weapon with standard ammunition will deal (slightly) more damage with each shot than MkI ammoAll types of MkII ammo inflict more damage than MkI ammo.

 

However: There are some special MkII ammo types that do cause less damage than standard MkII ammo

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Gaffa™
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#11

Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:12 AM Edited by Gaffa™, 13 July 2017 - 12:12 AM.

All types of MkII ammo inflict more damage than MkI ammo.

 

However: There are some special MkII ammo types that do cause less damage than standard MkII ammo

 

 

You're right, but that part isn't though. Let's take the Combat MG as an example. 

 

Original base damage - 45

Mk.2 base damage - 47

MK.2 FMJ damage - 42.3

 

So there's also some ammo types which will do less damage than their original, Vanilla game counterpart. 

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Nasty Noodles
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#12

Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:22 AM

It's people with threads like this why I love the gta community, amazing work. 

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ash-274
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#13

Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:26 AM Edited by ash-274, 13 July 2017 - 12:33 AM.

 

All types of MkII ammo inflict more damage than MkI ammo.

 

However: There are some special MkII ammo types that do cause less damage than standard MkII ammo

 

 

You're right, but that part isn't though. Let's take the Combat MG as an example. 

 

Original base damage - 45

Mk.2 base damage - 47

MK.2 FMJ damage - 42.3

 

So there's also some ammo types which will CAN do less or MORE damage than their original, Vanilla game counterpart. 

 

Yes, the Combat MG can be worse off with Incendiary and FMJ rounds than MkI rounds.  Though, the Incendiary ones are significantly more effective if the target ignites.  Players are far less likely to ignite than NPCs; AND If you're firing at an armored vehicle the FMJ rounds do more damage than MkI's, so it matters what your target will be.

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Nossirag
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#14

Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:39 AM

[quote name="ash-274" post="1069718457" timestamp="1499904254"]

 [/quote]
Actually, Blasterman is right:
 
Question: "Does the MkII standard ammo cause less damage than MkI ammo?"
Answer: No.  Every MkII weapon with standard ammunition will deal (slightly) more damage with each shot than MkI ammoAll types of MkII ammo inflict more damage than MkI ammo.
 
However: There are some special MkII ammo types that do cause less damage than standard MkII ammo[/quote]

Not to beat a dead horse here, Ash, but Blasterman is still incorrect. See the question was not "Does standard MKII ammo cause less damage per shot as compared to MK1 ammo?"
The question was "Does Special Ammo in MKII guns cause less damage than Standard Ammo in MKII guns?"
The answer to second question (and part of what this thread is discussing) is yes and no. Because the damage varies based on multiple factors.
For example: Standard Ammo in a MKII Heavy Sniper has a higher damage output than Incendiary Ammo in that same weapon.

ash-274
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#15

Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:51 AM



 

Actually, Blasterman is right:
 
Question: "Does the MkII standard ammo cause less damage than MkI ammo?"
Answer: No.  Every MkII weapon with standard ammunition will deal (slightly) more damage with each shot than MkI ammoAll types of MkII ammo inflict more damage than MkI ammo.
 
However: There are some special MkII ammo types that do cause less damage than standard MkII ammo[/quote]

Not to beat a dead horse here, Ash, but Blasterman is still incorrect. See the question was not "Does standard MKII ammo cause less damage per shot as compared to MK1 ammo?"
The question was "Does Special Ammo in MKII guns cause less damage than Standard Ammo in MKII guns?"
The answer to second question (and part of what this thread is discussing) is yes and no. Because the damage varies based on multiple factors.
For example: Standard Ammo in a MKII Heavy Sniper has a higher damage output than Incendiary Ammo in that same weapon.

If you look at my followup post with Gaffa (right above yours) we further parsed out the answer to "mostly yes; except in a few cases where it's probably no, but could still be yes depending on what the target is."

I tried out the Incendiary rounds and with NPCs some would flame up on the first bullet (thus that bullet was more powerful than a sniper round) and some would take 3-5 (and usually be dead already) before fuegosity ensued.

If a player is in an Armored vehicle then the FMJ round would kill the player in fewer shots than a MkI round or even a MkII standard round.

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Happy Hunter
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#16

Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:58 AM

Below is a list of hopefully all the relevant vehicles and how many explosive rounds it takes from the Heavy Sniper Mk.2 to destroy the vehicle (actually blow it up in this case).

 

Aircraft (except Cargobob) :- 2
APC :- 2

I thought the APC took a lot of shots?

 

Good list at any rate though. There's a lot of info in there.

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ash-274
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#17

Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:59 AM

In summary: Rockstar should have let the Pistol MkII have explosive rounds.  Equally expensive and proportionally less damage-inflicting than the sniper's.

Everyone would be upgrading that gun.

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#18

Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:33 AM

As a gun person I'm happy they finally got around to adding variety to the ammo we use because there is a huge difference between types of rounds and just having default ammo annoyed me. Now they need to introduce Hydra Shok pistol rounds because those are the best self defense rounds imo and all my handguns have them unless I'm going to the range then it's just cheap ball ammo and a lot of cleaning afterwards.
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Gaffa™
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#19

Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:09 AM

 

Below is a list of hopefully all the relevant vehicles and how many explosive rounds it takes from the Heavy Sniper Mk.2 to destroy the vehicle (actually blow it up in this case).

 

Aircraft (except Cargobob) :- 2
APC :- 2

I thought the APC took a lot of shots?

 

Good list at any rate though. There's a lot of info in there.

 

 

Oops. nice find. It's 20. 

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Stackhat
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#20

Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:14 AM

Great analysis. Time to make a few changes. Thanks!

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gtafan26
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#21

Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:18 AM

 

Below is a list of hopefully all the relevant vehicles and how many explosive rounds it takes from the Heavy Sniper Mk.2 to destroy the vehicle (actually blow it up in this case).

 

Aircraft (except Cargobob) :- 2
APC :- 2

I thought the APC took a lot of shots?

 

Good list at any rate though. There's a lot of info in there.

 

It takes a hell of lot more than 2 shots,  I was trying to take out a lvl8000 with a bounty that was in his APC, hitting it with explosive ammo,  two clips and nothing.

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SHOKKERZ91
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#22

Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:44 AM

Great post Gaffa. You put alot of work in this.

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#23

Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:16 AM

It takes a hell of lot more than 2 shots,  I was trying to take out a lvl8000 with a bounty that was in his APC, hitting it with explosive ammo,  two clips and nothing.

Yeah, it just turned out to be a little typo.

 

On another topic, I heard those FMJ shots can even get through a Cargobob's glass - nothing else will do that; not even a rocket.

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#24

Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:30 AM

Seems to me that i chose well...none of those results show it is worth to truely replace any gun, but rather just being worth to consider and add a few.

I think most of the sh*t discussed here needs buffing.

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#25

Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:02 AM

 

It takes a hell of lot more than 2 shots,  I was trying to take out a lvl8000 with a bounty that was in his APC, hitting it with explosive ammo,  two clips and nothing.

Yeah, it just turned out to be a little typo.

 

On another topic, I heard those FMJ shots can even get through a Cargobob's glass - nothing else will do that; not even a rocket.

 

Really? I had no idea that glass was that strong

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#26

Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:32 AM Edited by Snapadoodle, 13 July 2017 - 05:40 AM.

Great write up! I've stuck to hang the Combat MG with FMJ despite the lower damage against people just because the 80 round drum can destroy multiple vehicles, especially aircraft. It's disappointing that the incendiary rounds couldn't have been better, but then I suppose those would be used on every gun but the heavy sniper.
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#27

Posted 13 July 2017 - 08:25 AM

I only don't see a point of tracer rounds. Even when I change my tint to something crazy like purple or green, I still don't see anything.
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#28

Posted 13 July 2017 - 08:48 AM

As a gun person I'm happy they finally got around to adding variety to the ammo we use because there is a huge difference between types of rounds and just having default ammo annoyed me. Now they need to introduce Hydra Shok pistol rounds because those are the best self defense rounds imo and all my handguns have them unless I'm going to the range then it's just cheap ball ammo and a lot of cleaning afterwards.


Hydra is great ammo, but depending of your needs and caliber, there are some equally good rounds.

My 9mm is loaded with Liberty Civil Defense 50 grain rounds . There are very light but very fast as well. Depending of your barrel length, they can go as fast as 2000 fps and level 3 body armor can't help you at all. Basically, hydrostatic shock is almost guaranteed at that speed.

It is not for every application since it is not good against barriers and penetration is below average. But if you need something to penetrate body armor, not overpenetrate through walls and it is lead free, it is interesting round.

Their .357 Magnum rounds are rated at 2100 fps, can't wait to try those. :)

As for my .45 ACP, that is where I have more traditional approach. I am using 230 grain Hydra Shok or Remington Golden Saber. Love both equally.

Who knows, maybe in the future we will be able to shop for different brands and types of ammo in the GTA as well. It would definitely be interesting approach that would keep me playing the game.
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#29

Posted 13 July 2017 - 08:58 AM

I only don't see a point of tracer rounds. Even when I change my tint to something crazy like purple or green, I still don't see anything.

 

You only get to see 1 bullet tinted white every 3 other rounds or so.. it's really lame but well.. tracer comes free.


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#30

Posted 13 July 2017 - 11:00 AM

Awesome, thanks, seems I've got what I needed.

 

I've gone with Incendiary in my AK47, soooo much fun vs NPCs and also when just dicking around against another player that's trying to kill me, might not do as much damage but they all panic when they catch on fire :D

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