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The People vs Take-Two: OpenIV mod shut down

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Xilandro
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#61

Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:51 AM

I don't know how it didn't occur to me before, but take a look at Bethesda and their Creation Club or whatever, could that be the direction things are going with games developed by Rockstar? The chance for Take2 to implement some kind of micro transaction system a la GTA:O ? They know they'll storm through the negative publicity at first and in their case any publicity is good publicity by the way, so that in the end they roll out some form of paid mods or something? Excuse my lack of modding knowledge, but I'd bet my balls it has something to do with micro transactions.

If any company wants to start selling mods, making every single modder hate you is the wrong way to go.

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Ducky is King
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#62

Posted 17 June 2017 - 02:33 AM Edited by Ducky is King, 17 June 2017 - 02:34 AM.

I think the more plausable explanation is they want to single player people to play online.  there have been no updates to single player by the developers, but lots of updates for GTAO.  So the modding community stepped in  and created offline content, which ofcourse made those of us who play offline happy.

Making us never want to leave SP....

 

This is a 'problem' for the developers as it removes a potential streeam of cash in the form of possible shark card purchases.

 

However as so many have pointed out,  GTAO is the wild west, and if your a legit player you get hammered on by the cheaters (who are often using stolen accounts to begin with) and if you attempt to defend yourself from those cheaters, you get banned by the developers.

 

 

Its aa lose lose situation which has forced many people, me included to never go online.  I am sure T2 has a algrithim for figuring out how many freeloaders it takes before someone buys a shark card. 

 

So either you stop playing GTAV in SP,  or you play online.  Thats what theyre getting at here.  Any other reason is pure BS meant to appease to dumb people.

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Hullian111
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#63

Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:14 AM

So I've just logged into this site after lurking around for a bit. Here's my situation, copied from LCPDFR. It seems rectified, for now, due to the fact I can use DxTory for screenshots, but there's still some holes that need plugging.

"Well, I'm f*cked.

Those nasty f*cks picked the wrong time to get rid of OpenIV. I'm right now in modding nirvana, it seems. I have two pages of mods that I ENJOY making, but the thing is, for some reason, my Windows 10 computer is unable to take screenshots in-game. I need to use OpenIV's WFT viewer for this, as you may find, so I can appease both the admins and the potential downloader.

Sure, OpenIV likes to mess up my vehshare and my resident.rpf, but the thing is, I'm only modding for GTA IV, and I'm like the most active modder there right now. Sure, there may be some legal loophole in GTA IV, and sure, GTA V was a pain in the arse to mod, but my contributions here [on LCPDFR] have been a pillar of my involvement in the modding community.

The world's out to get me during these exam times, I'm sure of this. But this is the biggest blow to the GTA IV modding community since GTAPoliceMods shut down. I'm not updating my OpenIV out of fear, so I can't use that anymore. [I have since, but I'm worried I'll misclick] And SparkIV doesn't have a WFT viewer.

Nobody really knows how much it has affected my corner of mods. But let me tell you something - for keeping within site rules, it is REALLY BAD."

Planet 9
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#64

Posted 17 June 2017 - 08:09 AM

I think the more plausable explanation is they want to single player people to play online.  there have been no updates to single player by the developers, but lots of updates for GTAO.  So the modding community stepped in  and created offline content, which ofcourse made those of us who play offline happy.

Making us never want to leave SP....

 

This is a 'problem' for the developers as it removes a potential streeam of cash in the form of possible shark card purchases.

 

However as so many have pointed out,  GTAO is the wild west, and if your a legit player you get hammered on by the cheaters (who are often using stolen accounts to begin with) and if you attempt to defend yourself from those cheaters, you get banned by the developers.

 

 

Its aa lose lose situation which has forced many people, me included to never go online.  I am sure T2 has a algrithim for figuring out how many freeloaders it takes before someone buys a shark card. 

 

So either you stop playing GTAV in SP,  or you play online.  Thats what theyre getting at here.  Any other reason is pure BS meant to appease to dumb people.

You´re on the money there, thats what i thought too. And not only that.

 

There are people buying pc´s going from ps 3-4 console online, to pc sp only. Maybe there are numbers to back this theory up, to see how many people changed from online to singleplayer in the last 12-24 months?!

 

Take Two knows it, thats for sure.

 

We have to see it always from a financial perspective. Follow the money to understand the decision of all the business companys.

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Jimbatron
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#65

Posted 17 June 2017 - 08:27 AM

As I said on page 1, possibly the real reason they put a C&D order to the Open IV team has not been revealed. There's a lot of plausible suggestions here, the sad truth is we may never know. Unless R* release a Liberty City expansion to the V map next year or something like that.

Word on the street is that they've had ForceHax taken down - the real cause of all the problems in GTAO (see Gaffa's PSA thread).

Still speculation ofcourse but it does lend more weight to the possibility Open IV is collateral damage in a wider program to stop cheating and they misunderstood it's use.
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SergeantGnome
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#66

Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:19 AM

If we play the game with mods we previously installed from OpenIV would we get in trouble?


Sunrise Driver
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#67

Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:55 AM Edited by Street Mix, 17 June 2017 - 04:51 PM.

You asked for more links to non-gaming site news:

 

http://www.ibtimes.c...hutdown-1626630

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GTAonlineNews
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#68

Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:29 AM

Its crazy how much support OPENIV is getting

Grand Theft Auto V on Steam now has 82% negative votes

 

https://twitter.com/...037766743818244

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SilverRST
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#69

Posted 17 June 2017 - 12:18 PM

Its crazy how much support OPENIV is getting

Grand Theft Auto V on Steam now has 82% negative votes

 

https://twitter.com/...037766743818244

No sh*t, GTA is the most well known franchise for modding single player and I hate GTAO.

OpenIV has been there since the ages of GTAIV, so 10 years? Look at GTA3 Era, these games are still being modded!

 

T2 can simply piss off hardcore, it's not R* who shut down OIV but T2 and we may never know the real reason for this sh*t.

But it could be these:

 

1) Force Elite may be the first cause for this but I doubt it since OIV got shut down FIRST

1) T2 wants to force shark card really, truely and extremely harcore, they almost reaches the quantum-world

3) investors are pushing and forcing to stop any form of modding

 

It would be nice if R* would go and find another publisher.

 

And why has Lesie The Benz been fired??

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GTAonlineNews
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#70

Posted 17 June 2017 - 12:22 PM

 

Its crazy how much support OPENIV is getting

Grand Theft Auto V on Steam now has 82% negative votes

 

https://twitter.com/...037766743818244

No sh*t, GTA is the most well known franchise for modding single player and I hate GTAO.

OpenIV has been there since the ages of GTAIV, so 10 years? Look at GTA3 Era, these games are still being modded!

 

T2 can simply piss off hardcore, it's not R* who shut down OIV but T2 and we may never know the real reason for this sh*t.

But it could be these:

 

1) Force Elite may be the first cause for this but I doubt it since OIV got shut down FIRST

1) T2 wants to force shark card really, truely and extremely harcore, they almost reaches the quantum-world

3) investors are pushing and forcing to stop any form of modding

 

It would be nice if R* would go and find another publisher.

 

And why has Lesie The Benz been fired??

 

I do believe its all to do with sharkcards

or Take Two Interactive have no clue what OPENIV does and doesn't know it blocks GTA Online and wanted something to blame for the all modding online and blamed the wrong tool 


SilverRST
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#71

Posted 17 June 2017 - 12:32 PM

 

 

Its crazy how much support OPENIV is getting

Grand Theft Auto V on Steam now has 82% negative votes

 

https://twitter.com/...037766743818244

No sh*t, GTA is the most well known franchise for modding single player and I hate GTAO.

OpenIV has been there since the ages of GTAIV, so 10 years? Look at GTA3 Era, these games are still being modded!

 

T2 can simply piss off hardcore, it's not R* who shut down OIV but T2 and we may never know the real reason for this sh*t.

But it could be these:

 

1) Force Elite may be the first cause for this but I doubt it since OIV got shut down FIRST

1) T2 wants to force shark card really, truely and extremely harcore, they almost reaches the quantum-world

3) investors are pushing and forcing to stop any form of modding

 

It would be nice if R* would go and find another publisher.

 

And why has Lesie The Benz been fired??

 

I do believe its all to do with sharkcards

or Take Two Interactive have no clue what OPENIV does and doesn't know it blocks GTA Online and wanted something to blame for the all modding online and blamed the wrong tool 

 

Exactley, either sharkcards or investors or simply both. T2 blamed the wrong tool, there is no denial in that especially if OIV has been there this long.

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TheHolyNZF
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#72

Posted 17 June 2017 - 12:37 PM Edited by TheHolyNZF, 17 June 2017 - 12:37 PM.

It was a bad idea to have Online as a part of GTAV in the first place.

 

I hope the separation will happen and soon.

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ChengizVlad09
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#73

Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:02 PM Edited by ChengizVlad09, 17 June 2017 - 03:14 PM.

If any company wants to start selling mods, making every single modder hate you is the wrong way to go.
Nicely said, but I'm still affraid this could all be a very well calculated risk from T2. Get through the sh*t storm and after it is over, present some freemium mod tool.

What I'm trying to say, is that moding as a part of the gaming industry has started looking very lucrative and they know in order to make money they need to kill OpenIV. If I were a businessman, that's exactly how I would view things.

Egostic
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#74

Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:14 PM

I would really like to know how does regular R* employees feel after this.

 

I bet they were using OpenIV as well (at home, perhaps even at work...).

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GTAonlineNews
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#75

Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:25 PM

I would really like to know how does regular R* employees feel after this.

 

I bet they were using OpenIV as well (at home, perhaps even at work...).

Most probably, A lot of Rockstar Staff used OPENIV and added it to their portfolio. Its one of the ways people have been hired by Rockstar.

GTAWISEGUY explained it better in his latest video


SilverRST
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#76

Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:27 PM Edited by SilverRST, 17 June 2017 - 01:28 PM.

I would really like to know how does regular R* employees feel after this.

 

I bet they were using OpenIV as well (at home, perhaps even at work...).

Me too and Im sure they are also very disappointed about this. Remember when R* were posting news about GTAIV mods video's.

Heck, they even put deceased modders to show their condolences! My respect somewhat increased for R* because it seems T2 is behind all these stupid decisions.


Alvarez
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#77

Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:53 PM Edited by Alvarez, 17 June 2017 - 01:55 PM.

T2 is a bunch of corporate professional idiots.

 

It's all about marketing and PR. Zelnick even openly admits he doesn't play videogames. So why the hell is he in this trade then?

 

My mind is full of whiteshirt clowns dancing in front of a chart. They just aren't in touch with their target audience. It seems, they don't even feel they should be.

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Lozano71
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#78

Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:55 PM

I have an idea.

We need to search the Internet for information about the major shareholders of the T2. You can write emails to them. But one moment, emails must be correct, polite and reasoned. Do not forget to attach a link to the petition. I would have done it myself, but do not speak English adequately.

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#79

Posted 17 June 2017 - 02:45 PM

Updates:

 

Take-Two have now also shut down Force Hax, the people responsible for the mod menu that enables cheating in GTA Online, which is great news for PC players

 

Save OpenIV petition is now at almost 32,000 signatures

 

Recent Steam reviews now "Overwhelmingly Negative" with only 17% out of 28k reviews in the last 30 days being positive due to the OpenIV shut down

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Jimbatron
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#80

Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:09 PM Edited by Jimbatron, 17 June 2017 - 03:25 PM.

As said, the real reasons why R*/Take2 wanted Open IV shut down are unclear and we can only speculate.

 

I'm not the most advanced modder here, nor do I have any inside knowledge of how R* works. However, I do have a reasonably senior position in a multinational business. I get in on occasional meetings with the top brass, and I do think I've got something of an insight into how big companies can end up making bad decisions that aren't good for them or their consumers in the long term.

 

Whilst I respect a lot of the theories about the reasons, and I still wouldn't completely discount them, having thought about it a lot, I think the decision was in fact driven (however misguidedly) by cheating in GTAO. Here's WHY:

 

In April as most people here will know things got out of control, with the Force Mod menu allowing the remote manipulation of other players rank and GTA $s. R* attempts to stop it with cheating countermeasures failed within days. From a reputational standpoint, they had to take some sort of action.

 

It appears today GTA Force Hax has been shut down, with a note on their website stating they have been in discussions with Take2. They have issued an apology and stated they will be donating their proceeds to charity. Regardless of how sincere that all is it was clear these goons had no plans to go anywhere - they've blatantly had the squeeze put on them.

 

It's just too much of a coincidence that this happens within days of the Open IV team also getting a C&D order.

 

Of course, along with many here, I've been previously discounting cheating being the reason, because those of us in the know are well aware that Open IV has not been the cause of GTAO's problems. Surely R* couldn't be that ignorant, right?

 

Well, this is sadly where some corporate experience suggests to me this kind of mistake is entirely possible. Here's HOW:

Issuing a C&D legal order is not a trivial matter. Any business issuing legal action has to consider each case carefully (from a legislative perspective) - if you dish these things out willy-nilly you can end up in a whole heap of trouble. So, someone senior at Take2 has to sign off on each C&D order that is issued before the legal department draft it up. (And by the way, while it'll be someone high up, it's almost certainly not going to be SZ, the Housers or anyone you'd have heard of making the decision).

 

The person signing off may well not have a development background (at lot of senior people making such decisions come from finance in places where I've worked). So while they will probably have taken advice from people more technically astute as well as legal, they probably have very little idea of what tools like Open IV or the more malicious mod menus do, how they work - certainly much less than everyone posting in this thread.

 

I can imagine that post April they'll have ordered a review of all major GTA modding tools on the internet to decide which ones were threats. The Force Menu will have been an open and shut decision - it can manipulate GTA $, everyone involved will have agreed that needed go. I suspect there may have been more of a debate regarding Open IV. Just because a company makes a decision, doesn't mean everyone who works there agrees with it. That's not to defend R*, it's simply a fact of the way things work. Some developers may well have spoken out that it's an important community tool that is much loved and used to produce content that benefits the franchise. However, I can also imagine when a non-technical exec is given a description of what Open IV can do, they may well have deemed it too powerful and overzealously decided "why take the risk?" and sweep it up with the rest of the mods to be banned. I can see the concept that it could allow users to access locked content (that has to be paid for with virtual currency) and port models between games sparking concern, however unjustified the actions where. They also might have a different concept of what cheating actually is compared to the average forum member here.

 

If the senior decision maker, probably not the most technical adept in the room, decided it was too much of a risk, anyone else speaking in favour of Open IV will have been over-ruled, and that will be that.

 

The problem here is that anything even with the perceived potential to damage GTAO would feel like a threat to those lacking knowledge but not power in the corporation. The benefits to the franchise that Open IV has brought are potentially massive, but unfortunately, very, very difficult to quantify - otherwise it would have been easier for someone internally at R* to build a case to leave it well alone.

 

Just if anyone's in any doubt, I think it's a bad, misguided decision. But that's currently my best guess at what's happened here.

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Planet 9
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#81

Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:09 PM

Bring this company down Guys!!!

 

Remember David vs. Goliath?:D


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#82

Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:22 PM Edited by Jimbatron, 17 June 2017 - 03:27 PM.

As and aside, I thoroughly support the petition, and this type of protest:

 

 

I can't say I feel the same about this:

 

Its crazy how much support OPENIV is getting

Grand Theft Auto V on Steam now has 82% negative votes

 

https://twitter.com/...037766743818244

 

I share the anger of many who have given negative votes, but in the worse case, this kind of action could tip the scales towards there being no PC version of R* titles ever again.

 

Protesting and petitioning Take2 and R* is entirely justified, it's another doing a thing that might financially harm their business out of desire for revenge. Whether they deserve it is not the point, if they go down, there is no more GTA. Attacking them directly would simply be repeating the mistake they have made by banning Open IV - throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

In short the best course of action is to try to influence a change of T2/R* strategy, not to try to destroy them.


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#83

Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:39 PM

As and aside, I thoroughly support the petition, and this type of protest:

 

 

I can't say I feel the same about this:

 

Its crazy how much support OPENIV is getting

Grand Theft Auto V on Steam now has 82% negative votes

 

https://twitter.com/...037766743818244

 

I share the anger of many who have given negative votes, but in the worse case, this kind of action could tip the scales towards there being no PC version of R* titles ever again.

 

Protesting and petitioning Take2 and R* is entirely justified, it's another doing a thing that might financially harm their business out of desire for revenge. Whether they deserve it is not the point, if they go down, there is no more GTA. Attacking them directly would simply be repeating the mistake they have made by banning Open IV - throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

In short the best course of action is to try to influence a change of T2/R* strategy, not to try to destroy them.

 

I think 82% is a big enough percentage for them to get influenced. What good is a PC version of a future title when you treat your fan base like this? With this kind of an attitude and unwillingness to change on their part even after watching how their products are getting hammered, we or atleast I would be much happier without another GTA. You can't expect them to change their opinion about something, knowing this company's history and given the stubbornness of the people leading it, what's to stop them from screwing their player-base over in any number of ways in the future? What's next? A so called GTA next that features being online 24/7 and no scope of player creativity in terms of mods? To hell with it and them I'd say. Also this is no way of introducing paid modding services, if that ever was their so called big plan. I think they're starting to realize it now.

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Sunrise Driver
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#84

Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:53 PM

I share the anger of many who have given negative votes, but in the worse case, this kind of action could tip the scales towards there being no PC version of R* titles ever again.

2 online-focused games in 10 years. That's their future. Not a big deal. R* is dead.

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quxxo
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#85

Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:16 PM Edited by quxxo, 17 June 2017 - 06:27 PM.

 

I share the anger of many who have given negative votes, but in the worse case, this kind of action could tip the scales towards there being no PC version of R* titles ever again.

2 online-focused games in 10 years. That's their future. Not a big deal. R* is dead.

 

 

This forum is for Rockstar fans, not baseless hating. If you want to just hate on Rockstar for the next few years you should probably just leave.

R* is dead - yep, especially with top selling IPs they have. They are "dead" in your head, because you don't like them, but they will continue to release best selling games. Rockstar is one of the biggest names in the industry, there's no way that some negative reviews on the platform they sell the least amount of copies will do them any harm. As we can see from the past, they don't even have a need to release PC versions.  And who told you that RDR2 is online based? GTA V wasn't online based, it just didn't get any SP DLC, that doesn't make the game "online based".

 

Also it's not like their games are bad without mods. I spent 1000 (600 in singeplayer) hours in last gen GTAV version alone.
 

 

Please, next time you want to make such extreme assumptions think about it twice, maybe even three times.

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TheHolyNZF
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#86

Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:35 PM

As and aside, I thoroughly support the petition, and this type of protest:

 

 

I can't say I feel the same about this:

 

Its crazy how much support OPENIV is getting

Grand Theft Auto V on Steam now has 82% negative votes

 

https://twitter.com/...037766743818244

 

I share the anger of many who have given negative votes, but in the worse case, this kind of action could tip the scales towards there being no PC version of R* titles ever again.

 

Protesting and petitioning Take2 and R* is entirely justified, it's another doing a thing that might financially harm their business out of desire for revenge. Whether they deserve it is not the point, if they go down, there is no more GTA.

The worst thing is people are protesting on Kerbal Space Program too. Just because they made a deal with T2.


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#87

Posted 17 June 2017 - 08:36 PM

I must give T2 credit for bringing Force Hax Menu down, though. It is just that they carpetbombed everything, including legit mod tools like OpenIV.

 

Their statement towards PCGamer is not sufficient and screams of technological dilletance.

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DimitriFaustin
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#88

Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:03 PM

Not a modder myself, but this is really a lose-lose situation between Take-Two Interactive and the GTA fanbase and modders.

Take-Two apparently really jumped the shark (card).


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#89

Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:12 PM

It was a bad idea to have Online as a part of GTAV in the first place.

 

I hope the separation will happen and soon.

If SimCity fans can make EA quit always-online DRM, then what can we do? EA are billionaires, and so are TakeTwo.

 

Hey, Houser family! Do you hear the people sing?

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Sunrise Driver
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#90

Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:28 PM Edited by Street Mix, 18 June 2017 - 10:07 PM.

People protested AC2 DRM and AC PC games haven't been always online since.





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