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Why Is Ryder Never Mentioned since The Green Sabre?

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povke
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#1

Posted 07 May 2017 - 07:50 AM

- During The Green Sabre, CJ doesn't even say anything about Ryder, even to Sweet. All he's saying is about the Big Smoke's betrayal.
- During the storyline, CJ also doesn't say anything about Ryder, only about Big Smoke. The only time when CJ says about Ryder is during Yay-Ka-Boom-Boom that Ryder was his homie and he killed him.
- During Pier 69, when CJ kills Ryder, the dialogue between them is very primitive. CJ talks to him like a very minor character.
- Despite all of these facts, even Sweet, after he gets released from prison, never asks anything about Ryder like he even didn't exist.

So why is Ryder never mentioned since The Green Sabre?
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gts.
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#2

Posted 07 May 2017 - 08:48 AM

Hey, very clever observations. Never thought about it. Since all of that is true, the question is: Was Ryder added late to the development of the game? And due that, R* did rushed modifications to the game script? A good example is the 'Pier 69' mission dialogue, very dull.
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lil weasel
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#3

Posted 07 May 2017 - 09:24 AM

I would think because Carl has no respect for the drug using, whiny, little creep.
Knowing Ryder is a follower, and of no value.
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Steezy.
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#4

Posted 07 May 2017 - 04:33 PM

Because Ryder wasn't meant to betray the Grove. R* added him in late into development, for whatever reason.

However in game, one could say that CJ just had absolutely no respect for Ryder despite being his childhood friend, and didn't give a sh*t about him or whether he live or dies because he's a busta.
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HalfOfAKebab
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#5

Posted 07 May 2017 - 04:37 PM

Because Ryder wasn't meant to betray the Grove. R* added him in late into development, for whatever reason.

Source?

Son of Zeus
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#6

Posted 07 May 2017 - 05:32 PM

Because Ryder wasn't meant to betray the Grove. R* added him in late into development, for whatever reason.

Source?

I too remember reading that ....not sure where. Ryder was initially meant to accompany you to San Fierro instead of Cesar.
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Rose.Quartz
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#7

Posted 07 May 2017 - 06:51 PM Edited by Rose.Quartz, 07 May 2017 - 08:07 PM.

 

 

Because Ryder wasn't meant to betray the Grove. R* added him in late into development, for whatever reason.

Source?

I too remember reading that ....not sure where. Ryder was initially meant to accompany you to San Fierro instead of Cesar.

 

damn i wish that would've happened instead. i saw somewhere that it would be nice to have the guy that's an a-hole to you be the one who stays with you till the end while the one who was extremely nice be the one who betrays you and the gang or something like that. sad that Rockstar decided to throw away his character. 

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Vanzant
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#8

Posted 08 May 2017 - 03:38 AM

I would think because Carl has no respect for the drug using, whiny, little creep.
Knowing Ryder is a follower, and of no value.

 

That's the best answer. They don't get along well in story and as such CJ wasn't surprised of the betrayal nor seems to be inclined to reflect upon the outcome.

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AzelfandQuilava
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#9

Posted 08 May 2017 - 04:37 PM

 

I would think because Carl has no respect for the drug using, whiny, little creep.
Knowing Ryder is a follower, and of no value.

 

That's the best answer. They don't get along well in story and as such CJ wasn't surprised of the betrayal nor seems to be inclined to reflect upon the outcome.

 

The way their friendship is portrayed, it's more like they're just sarcastic assholes to each other (we all have that one friend).

 

Keep in mind, Ryder's lit half the time during the Los Santos arc (in other words, he isn't thinking straight), and judging by his remarks he was hurt by CJ leaving for Liberty City like Sweet was. So with that in mind, his dickishness is kinda justified.

 

Regardless, it doesn't make the betrayal any better written.

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watersgta3
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#10

Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:08 PM Edited by watersgta3, 08 May 2017 - 07:09 PM.

Honestly, I feel that people really exaggerate CJ and Ryder's relationship and make them seem like they were enemies from the start. Seriously, so just because Ryder made rude remarks towards CJ, it automatically means that he wasn't CJ's friend? You people act like there hasn't been anyone who throw occasional insults at their friends before. Look at Brian and Stewie from Family Guy, or Sonic and Knuckles from the Sonic the Hedgehog series. CJ and Ryder's relationship is pretty similar to the aforementioned friendships. I see no disparities whatsoever. In other words, they're Vitriolic Best Buds (http://tvtropes.org/...triolicBestBuds). Also, people really exaggerate when one of them even claimed that CJ was probably bullied by Ryder back then. Okay, so if Ryder really bullied CJ back in childhood, why would CJ be so quick to ask for homie love from him at the start of the game? Why would Sweet even allow someone who bullies his younger brother in his gang to begin with? No, being close friends wouldn't be an excuse since Sweet seems to be as the guy who wouldn't hang around anyone who bullies his brother. Let's not forget to mention the fact that CJ's remorse for killing Ryder was genuine, and the fact that they had to add in that arbitrary dialogue of Ryder trying to bang Kendl was just poor writing to make us forget all about it. From what I've seen in the story, Ryder's blunt attitude towards CJ most likely stems from the fact that like Sweet, he too is upset of CJ running away to LC, which is why he wasn't that happy to see him back. That actually makes Ryder's betrayal poorly written when you look back on the story.

 

Which brings me to the answer to the question asked way up above. Well there are many reasons why Ryder is never mentioned up until Photo Opportunity. R* either wasn't planning to make Ryder a traitor since unlike Smoke, there was never really any actual hints of his betrayal, but had no further use for his character, so they decided to just simply implement it, or Ryder wasn't originally going to become a main character during the makings of the game, but once the writers saw the appeal of the character, they made him one of the main members of the Grove Street Family gang members and didn't exactly write his motives very well since he was probably an afterthought character. Yeah I'm just going to stick to the first choice considering that R* is pretty notorious for indolent writing.

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Achlys
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#11

Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:20 PM

CJ did express remorse for killing him.
"f*cking Ryder, man. That was my homie, and I killed him!"
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gts.
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#12

Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:19 PM

 

I would think because Carl has no respect for the drug using, whiny, little creep.
Knowing Ryder is a follower, and of no value.

That's the best answer. They don't get along well in story and as such CJ wasn't surprised of the betrayal nor seems to be inclined to reflect upon the outcome.

Also, Ryder always was bothering CJ. You can see it in the first mission: "You're just a liability CJ. Why you bother coming back?". And through all storyline in Los Santos.

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Evil empire
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#13

Posted 09 May 2017 - 02:43 AM

I suppose Ryder wasn't supposed to betray CJ in the initial scenario.

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D9fred95
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#14

Posted 09 May 2017 - 03:48 AM Edited by D9fred95, 09 May 2017 - 03:48 AM.

Because Smoke was always the helpful cool guy. Ryder was a cool guy too but lesser somewhat due to the drugs he always took and the "it's all about me" attitude he has. It's more of a shock that a fun big guy like Smoke would switch sides.

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watersgta3
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#15

Posted 09 May 2017 - 08:41 AM

 

 

I would think because Carl has no respect for the drug using, whiny, little creep.
Knowing Ryder is a follower, and of no value.

 

That's the best answer. They don't get along well in story and as such CJ wasn't surprised of the betrayal nor seems to be inclined to reflect upon the outcome.

 

The way their friendship is portrayed, it's more like they're just sarcastic assholes to each other (we all have that one friend).

 

Keep in mind, Ryder's lit half the time during the Los Santos arc (in other words, he isn't thinking straight), and judging by his remarks he was hurt by CJ leaving for Liberty City like Sweet was. So with that in mind, his dickishness is kinda justified.

 

Regardless, it doesn't make the betrayal any better written.

 

Yeah. That's how I see it as well. I mean there have been plenty of friends who poke fun at each other. And to be honest, Ryder's betrayal was more of an afterthought if anything.

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AzelfandQuilava
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#16

Posted 10 May 2017 - 11:56 PM

. Well there are many reasons why Ryder is never mentioned up until Photo Opportunity. R* either wasn't planning to make Ryder a traitor since unlike Smoke, there was never really any actual hints of his betrayal, but had no further use for his character, so they decided to just simply implement it, or Ryder wasn't originally going to become a main character during the makings of the game, but once the writers saw the appeal of the character, they made him one of the main members of the Grove Street Family gang members and didn't exactly write his motives very well since he was probably an afterthought character. Yeah I'm just going to stick to the first choice considering that R* is pretty notorious for indolent writing.

 

That second thought's an interesting take on it. Since apparently R* were planning to have three playable characters in San Andreas originally.

 

I imagine it would have been CJ, Cesar and Ryder as the trio, had the concept seen the light of day.

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Rose.Quartz
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#17

Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:21 AM

 

. Well there are many reasons why Ryder is never mentioned up until Photo Opportunity. R* either wasn't planning to make Ryder a traitor since unlike Smoke, there was never really any actual hints of his betrayal, but had no further use for his character, so they decided to just simply implement it, or Ryder wasn't originally going to become a main character during the makings of the game, but once the writers saw the appeal of the character, they made him one of the main members of the Grove Street Family gang members and didn't exactly write his motives very well since he was probably an afterthought character. Yeah I'm just going to stick to the first choice considering that R* is pretty notorious for indolent writing.

 

That second thought's an interesting take on it. Since apparently R* were planning to have three playable characters in San Andreas originally.

 

I imagine it would have been CJ, Cesar and Ryder as the trio, had the concept seen the light of day.

jeez, i would have liked that..

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vMinty
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#18

Posted 11 May 2017 - 05:14 PM

Replayed the game myself a couple of days ago, and only now, after 13 years, I've managed to notice that very thing :x

 

 R* either wasn't planning to make Ryder a traitor since unlike Smoke, there was never really any actual hints of his betrayal, but had no further use for his character, so they decided to just simply implement it, or Ryder wasn't originally going to become a main character during the makings of the game, but once the writers saw the appeal of the character, they made him one of the main members of the Grove Street Family gang members and didn't exactly write his motives very well since he was probably an afterthought character. Yeah I'm just going to stick to the first choice considering that R* is pretty notorious for indolent writing.

 

Interesting point, it seems believable to me.


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#19

Posted 12 May 2017 - 01:19 PM

Because Ryder wasn't meant to betray the Grove. R* added him in late into development, for whatever reason.

Source?

Damn, I forgot where but I read about it a while ago. But it's kinda obvious when you replay the game. On the mission 'The Green Sabre', CJ never mentions Ryder or his involvement with CRASH. He told Sweet that Big Smoke sold them out,and only Big Smoke. In the cutscene after where he gets sent to Whetstone,nobody mentions Ryder either,not even Tenpenny. It's always Big Smoke this,and Big Smoke that, but never Ryder. You'd think that they would talk about him more,seeing as how he was a childhood friend of CJ and an important OG of the Families (he brought them tons of weapons). Ryder is only mentioned later on (This must be when R* decided to include him as a bad guy) during the mission where you take pictures of him and the Loco Syndicate,and the mission where you kill him.

Personally, I really liked Ryder and his interactions with CJ in the beginning arc. Sure he was an asshole,but he was still one of the homies. Not all friends have to be nice. My closest friend,for instance,is kinda like him,an asshole. But we're still pretty close nonetheless. One mission where you can tell they were close is in 'Robbing Uncle Sam', where he and CJ talk about why he dropped out of highschool. They laughed and reminisced on when he fought a teacher for wearing Ballas colors. Another mission is 'Drive By', when Ryder is telling Sweet that he can drive "as good as CJ" indicating that half the time he doesn't really mean his insults. It's not much,I know, but if they weren't friends then they wouldn't talk like that. I think when CJ ran away after Brian's death,that kinda made everyone on Grove Street lose respect for him, which also explains why Sweet is so hard on him too. The only Grove Street member who isn't mad at CJ is Big Smoke,who is actually a traitor to the gang and would probably prefer if CJ had stayed in Liberty City.
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