Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

Could the American Civil War provide a backdrop to the game?

28 replies to this topic
Typhus
  • Typhus

    OG

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2007

#1

Posted 14 January 2017 - 08:58 PM

This is something that could be very risky, given the racial issues behind the conflict, but would fit the mature storytelling of the Red Dead series and its theme of American identity.

 

For those who don't know, the American Civil War was a conflict between the USA and a rebellious state calling itself The Confederate States of America, led by their own President, Jefferson Davis, who wanted to retain their rights to keep human slaves - as the economy of the South was so dependent on them. It was a horribly bloody conflict, but one which forced both sides to be technologically innovative.

The US Army, for example, had a Balloon Corps which involved using hot air balloons to spy on CSA fortifications. The Confederacy experimented with early submarine technology.

 

Let's say it was part of the game. Could you see the PS4 or other consoles being able to handle huge pitched battles? When games like Skyrim attempted to simulate a war, they could only manage small skirmishes. But with the power of this generation, could we see something on a larger scale?

 

It would certainly add a unique element to the familiar Western trappings of the game, and would explore a chapter of American history not often tackled by video games.

  • saintsrow, Duxfever, universetwisters and 6 others like this

saintsrow
  • saintsrow

    Dime store angel of death

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Sep 2006
  • None
  • Best Work Writer's Discussion 2016 [The "I Love Karen Daniels" fanfic]
    Best Story/Poem 2015 [The "I Love Karen Daniels" fanfic]

#2

Posted 15 January 2017 - 09:29 AM

I think this would be a great theme to widen the gameplay, plot and mission possibilities.  The Good, the Bad and the Ugly made use of the Civil War, as do other westerns.  Its a good idea.  

 

The game could also include other villains and antags like callous capitalists, railroad tycoons, corrupt governors and sadistic sheriffs, gold mining, steam-powered mills, other things that are contemporaneous to the 1850s-1880s. The exact timeline wouldn't have to be rigorous.  

 

There could be new territories and new towns to be tamed from lawlessness into civilized governments.  The game protag could have a part in these things, like in the Mexican revolution part of RDR.  Lots of good possibilities.  Make use of the events of the times.  

  • Typhus, tonko, AndyC1992 and 3 others like this

Typhus
  • Typhus

    OG

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2007

#3

Posted 15 January 2017 - 10:30 AM

I think this would be a great theme to widen the gameplay, plot and mission possibilities.  The Good, the Bad and the Ugly made use of the Civil War, as do other westerns.  Its a good idea.  

 

The game could also include other villains and antags like callous capitalists, railroad tycoons, corrupt governors and sadistic sheriffs, gold mining, steam-powered mills, other things that are contemporaneous to the 1850s-1880s. The exact timeline wouldn't have to be rigorous.  

 

There could be new territories and new towns to be tamed from lawlessness into civilized governments.  The game protag could have a part in these things, like in the Mexican revolution part of RDR.  Lots of good possibilities.  Make use of the events of the times.  

What would you think if they included REAL historical characters from the era?

There was a show called Deadwood, and they did something similar in the last season, and it was genius. The main villain turned out to be a guy called George Hearst, who was this huge industrialist in real life, and the whole show pretty much ends with him getting everything he wants and riding off into the sunset, because he's too rich and powerful for any of the characters to stop.

I wonder if they could do something similar? So, if it was set during the Civil War, have President Lincoln show up to visit a military fort. Or a young Jesse James - then just a Confederate guerilla fighter - showing up to launch raids on Union troops.

  • saintsrow, The Deadite and LincolnClay like this

LincolnClay
  • LincolnClay

    New Bordeaux 1968

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Feb 2016
  • Australia

#4

Posted 16 January 2017 - 08:49 AM

Yes. Very fitting for a game like Red Dead. It would be awesome to have an entire storyline arc around it or something where one of the major antagonists joins up with one of the factions.

wapster
  • wapster

    Gentleman thief

  • Members
  • Joined: 24 Nov 2014
  • United-Kingdom

#5

Posted 16 January 2017 - 03:29 PM

I'd consider it more likely that the main characters themselves wouldn't be in the battles of the war, but perhaps influence them in some way- killing a commander, ambushing supply lines etc.- that would be more in keeping with the pace of gameplay. Firing off a musket round in the ranks and waiting for it to reload before doing the same would get boring quickly for a mission.


éX-Driver
  • éX-Driver

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 24 Nov 2016
  • Australia

#6

Posted 17 January 2017 - 02:40 AM Edited by éX-Driver, 17 January 2017 - 02:42 AM.

Although interesting, it would make what we've seen fairly anachronistic. Electricity has been shown to be semi-common, pretty much every firearm shown was cartridge based (with several being introduced post-1870) the train was an 1870s style one at the earliest, the stagecoach was a more 1880s or later design (more ornate). Most likely, the game is set between 1895 and 1905. Obviously a few decades off the Civil War.

Besides, the game seems to take place in Wyoming, Montana, and Utah. Pretty much all major battles in the CW were fought in the southeast, save for a few isolated skirmishes in Texas and Kansas. And most western states, (including those of the most likely setting) didn't join the United States until the 1880s at the earliest. Prior, they're just territories of the United States or Mexico or with no real affiliation.

confederatestatesgta
  • confederatestatesgta

    negan is awsome.

  • Members
  • Joined: 31 May 2013
  • United-States

#7

Posted 17 January 2017 - 03:54 AM

as you can probably tell by my name i love the civil war. and i would very much like a civil war red dead. it would be amazing. and mafia 3 just recently had a whole bunch of racisim in the game so i think rockstar can do it. assasins creed 3 had the revolutionary war setting and had a few major battles in it. especially the battle of bunker hill it had a lot of soldiers on the field at once although they were mainly just for show. it would be so cool to see some of the huge civil war battles in the game. and talking about real people in the game i think it would be awsome but doubtful. that is usually something assasins creed does not red dead. although they could have some parodys. im not gonna lie it would be amazing if we could see general lee. i hope one day they do this. the civil war is rarely touched on in video games. i really liked they mexican revolution part of the game it was pretty interesting and fun. i hated having to fight for the government especially since they were the bad guys all along. so overall heck yes i want a civil war setting but they should let you choose which side you want to be on.

  • saintsrow likes this

Zello
  • Zello

    Hired gun

  • Members
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#8

Posted 17 January 2017 - 07:08 AM Edited by Zello, 17 January 2017 - 07:09 AM.

I'd rather it take place like 10-20 years after it and either the Protagonist is or another character is a civil war veteran

  • saintsrow and LincolnClay like this

LincolnClay
  • LincolnClay

    New Bordeaux 1968

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Feb 2016
  • Australia

#9

Posted 18 January 2017 - 08:24 AM Edited by TheGamingPr025, 18 January 2017 - 08:25 AM.

I'd rather it take place like 10-20 years after it and either the Protagonist is or another character is a civil war veteran


That'd be a cool backstory. Explains the knowledge of pretty much all the firearms in the west then.
  • saintsrow likes this

ClaudeSpeed1911
  • ClaudeSpeed1911

    J.E.C.

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2012
  • Palestine

#10

Posted 19 January 2017 - 03:57 PM

If that happened then I want the Buffalo Soldier to return.

  • Payne Killer, HBKingJosh and Happy Hunter like this

Typhus
  • Typhus

    OG

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2007

#11

Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:11 PM

I'd rather it take place like 10-20 years after it and either the Protagonist is or another character is a civil war veteran

But why? Doing that would rob the game of so many opportunities. The war could change the landscape of the entire map, its culture, its inhabitants, right down to the songs people sing around a campfire. Why would you set the game AFTER this huge, gamechanging historical event when including it would allow the series to take a completely different direction?

Take the Native Americans for example, in RDR just an afterthought, but during the Civil War they were right there in the fighting - various nations siding with both the Union and Confederacy and gaining infamy in battles like Poisoned Springs.

 

To contrast RDR2 again with Skyrim, it could really give the player a sense of a huge conflict, which they are only a small part of. Imagine, for instance, if losing a battle had real consequences, and entire settlements were put to the flame. Or if choosing one side over another could turn your own friends against you?

 

Why would you pass up the chance to explore all that?

  • confederatestatesgta and The Deadite like this

X S
  • X S

    .

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2013
  • None
  • Miss Los Santos Host Extraordinaire

#12

Posted 20 January 2017 - 02:45 AM

I think this would be a great theme to widen the gameplay, plot and mission possibilities.  The Good, the Bad and the Ugly made use of the Civil War, as do other westerns.  Its a good idea. 

 

Yeah, definitely on board considering how GB&U used it.  Neither side was given the "glory", they just happened to be caught in the middle of it and playing both sides of the armies to their advantage.

 

I'd like to see some total war destruction left in the wake of the Union, perhaps destroyed crops, twisted rail lines, etc.

 

m-8301.jpg

  • saintsrow and Typhus like this

Napalmbrain
  • Napalmbrain

    What is Buzz?

  • Members
  • Joined: 29 Aug 2013

#13

Posted 20 January 2017 - 07:33 AM

One thing is for sure, the guy that looks suspiciously like Landon Ricketts from the teaser image is certainly wearing a Confederate uniform jacket.

 

I thought it was a pretty safe bet this game is at least 1880s -1890s though. Any earlier and there wouldn't be electric lights.

  • saintsrow likes this

Shadowfennekin
  • Shadowfennekin

    Proud Saints Row and Pokemon Fanboy

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#14

Posted 21 January 2017 - 12:15 AM

I'd love to see that. It would make the game more interesting rather than just being another western game.

  • saintsrow likes this

AndyC1992
  • AndyC1992

    Discoverin'.

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Jan 2016
  • Malaysia

#15

Posted 12 February 2017 - 04:34 PM Edited by AndyC1992, 12 February 2017 - 04:37 PM.

This is something that could be very risky, given the racial issues behind the conflict, but would fit the mature storytelling of the Red Dead series and its theme of American identity.

 

Racial issues? That one game that may seem to have received mixed reactions because of technical problems, Mafia 3, tackled that (Even involving the KKK organisation), and it managed to spark up some conversations about it among the players, which in general, works well.

 

 

For those who don't know, the American Civil War was a conflict between the USA and a rebellious state calling itself The Confederate States of America, led by their own President, Jefferson Davis, who wanted to retain their rights to keep human slaves - as the economy of the South was so dependent on them. It was a horribly bloody conflict, but one which forced both sides to be technologically innovative.

The US Army, for example, had a Balloon Corps which involved using hot air balloons to spy on CSA fortifications. The Confederacy experimented with early submarine technology.

 

Sounds interesting, although based on the leaked map, which is just north of the original RDR's location, near to the border of Mexico, I'm never sure if Mexico would actually get involved in that conflict. If not, maybe Rockstar will make some twists to fit that war into the game.

 

Otherwise, if RDR2 sets in a completely different piece of land, I would say preferable.

 

 

Let's say it was part of the game. Could you see the PS4 or other consoles being able to handle huge pitched battles? When games like Skyrim attempted to simulate a war, they could only manage small skirmishes. But with the power of this generation, could we see something on a larger scale?

 

It would certainly add a unique element to the familiar Western trappings of the game, and would explore a chapter of American history not often tackled by video games.

 

I'm kind of wondering how the game engine of Rockstar will be able to handle a colossal amount of AI battling each other, with dynamic outcomes to count for. Also, let's just say if you're participating it, I can guess it can affect your reputation.

 

And hey, I would be glad to learn the Civil War in the most immersive way I can get. ;)

  • saintsrow likes this

éX-Driver
  • éX-Driver

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 24 Nov 2016
  • Australia

#16

Posted 12 February 2017 - 05:01 PM

The next Red Dead might. Particularly they could show how the Civil War started to spill over into the western territories. Around the same time (early 1860s) there were major gold rushes in Arizona, Nevada, and Colorado. Would fit together nicely.

The only issue is the vast majority of weapons would be muzzle loaded muskets. Most casual players would hate how practically every gun only fires one bullet at a time and takes upwards of 30 seconds to reload after every shot.

If they did do it, they could call it Red Dead Revolution or Red Dead Rebellion. Works
  • BurnettVice likes this

saintsrow
  • saintsrow

    Dime store angel of death

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Sep 2006
  • None
  • Best Work Writer's Discussion 2016 [The "I Love Karen Daniels" fanfic]
    Best Story/Poem 2015 [The "I Love Karen Daniels" fanfic]

#17

Posted 12 February 2017 - 11:10 PM

 

I think this would be a great theme to widen the gameplay, plot and mission possibilities.  The Good, the Bad and the Ugly made use of the Civil War, as do other westerns.  Its a good idea.  

 

The game could also include other villains and antags like callous capitalists, railroad tycoons, corrupt governors and sadistic sheriffs, gold mining, steam-powered mills, other things that are contemporaneous to the 1850s-1880s. The exact timeline wouldn't have to be rigorous.  

 

There could be new territories and new towns to be tamed from lawlessness into civilized governments.  The game protag could have a part in these things, like in the Mexican revolution part of RDR.  Lots of good possibilities.  Make use of the events of the times.  

What would you think if they included REAL historical characters from the era?

There was a show called Deadwood, and they did something similar in the last season, and it was genius. The main villain turned out to be a guy called George Hearst, who was this huge industrialist in real life, and the whole show pretty much ends with him getting everything he wants and riding off into the sunset, because he's too rich and powerful for any of the characters to stop.

I wonder if they could do something similar? So, if it was set during the Civil War, have President Lincoln show up to visit a military fort. Or a young Jesse James - then just a Confederate guerilla fighter - showing up to launch raids on Union troops.

 

Real historical characters would be a nice idea, and it would probably get some players more interested in American history, as someone mentioned above.  A friend told me about player interaction with Benjamin Franklin in Assassin's Creed, and that got me interested enough find out more about Franklin.  

 

Like some people said above, seems like a setting 10-20 years after Civil War is more likely, since there can be a lot of history between important NPCs and antagonists regarding their war experiences, back when they were 15-20 years old.  

 

And the main thing is, Rockstar probably does not intend to show massive changes in the game world as the war goes on - they don't want to evolve the game world like that, based on all their past games.  At most, they have a couple of buildings that are blown up in-game, with a before and after state.   

  • AndyC1992 likes this

DexPac
  • DexPac

    Rat

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2011
  • United-States

#18

Posted 15 February 2017 - 05:35 AM

  I think post Civil War makes the most sense. That's where the majority of our "Western" folklore comes from and I don't think Rockstar is looking to "avoid that". 

 

  It could make an interesting story, though. Especially if they keep with the three protagonist story. You could have one character on each side of the war and one caught in the middle.   

  • AndyC1992 likes this

UnknownDivision
  • UnknownDivision

    Dont mess

  • Members
  • Joined: 20 Jul 2016
  • United-States

#19

Posted 23 February 2017 - 05:49 AM

Yeah, I don't know. I think it would be badass to see, but I don't think it would happen, like you said what with all the racial discrimination and all. Especially in this day and age, Rockstar would have to expect protesters at their offices.


The Deadite
  • The Deadite

    THEN I SWALLOD THE EVRYTING

  • The Yardies
  • Joined: 25 Nov 2014
  • None
  • Most Improved 2016
    Crew Poster Booby Prize 2016
    Most Unwanted Medal 2016
    Doggo-Chop Winner 2016

#20

Posted 28 February 2017 - 10:18 PM

Yeah, I don't know. I think it would be badass to see, but I don't think it would happen, like you said what with all the racial discrimination and all. Especially in this day and age, Rockstar would have to expect protesters at their offices.

This doesn't make a lick of sense.

AndyC1992
  • AndyC1992

    Discoverin'.

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Jan 2016
  • Malaysia

#21

Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:43 AM Edited by AndyC1992, 01 March 2017 - 02:46 AM.

 

Yeah, I don't know. I think it would be badass to see, but I don't think it would happen, like you said what with all the racial discrimination and all. Especially in this day and age, Rockstar would have to expect protesters at their offices.

This doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

 

Mafia 3 made a daring move on depicting racism, and it went pretty well.

But you might be right on some cases, since Rockstar garnered a lot of controversies before, all the way back since GTA 3.


saintsrow
  • saintsrow

    Dime store angel of death

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Sep 2006
  • None
  • Best Work Writer's Discussion 2016 [The "I Love Karen Daniels" fanfic]
    Best Story/Poem 2015 [The "I Love Karen Daniels" fanfic]

#22

Posted 01 March 2017 - 03:25 AM

 

 

Yeah, I don't know. I think it would be badass to see, but I don't think it would happen, like you said what with all the racial discrimination and all. Especially in this day and age, Rockstar would have to expect protesters at their offices.

This doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

 

Mafia 3 made a daring move on depicting racism, and it went pretty well.

But you might be right on some cases, since Rockstar garnered a lot of controversies before, all the way back since GTA 3.

 

There is no such thing as bad publicity, which is why GTA III got so much exposure outside of it's original demographic, leading to its great success, and therefore leading to the massive GTA franchise we have now.  

 

But the world is such a crude and mean place today, it's going to hard for Rockstar to find something offensive and shocking enough to sell GTA6.  In one sense, they can try to try to rub it in the face of the social justice warriors and political correctness police, but that's gotten old and doesn't work unless it's very finely tuned.  Saints Row tried to do that, but it didn't get the needed reaction, and the crudeness just fell flat.  

  • AndyC1992 likes this

Happy Hunter
  • Happy Hunter

    Huntèr civil rights activist

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 Dec 2016
  • None
  • Governor of San Andreas 2017
    Ban Roulette Winner 2016

#23

Posted 01 March 2017 - 06:53 AM Edited by Happy Hunter, 01 March 2017 - 06:54 AM.

If that happened then I want the Buffalo Soldier to return.

Yes! Some Revolver love - also give him the explosive rounds as deadeye.

 

Anyway, while I think a western game based around the civil war could work, I'm not sure how well it would work for Red Dead. Not to sh*t on the idea at all - I just think something that big might overpower the games story and so on. The story would probably have to be wrapped around the war somehow.

 

A game like that could be brilliant I think - but I'm not sure it would have a Red Dead feel.

  • AndyC1992 likes this

Arthur Fookin Shelby
  • Arthur Fookin Shelby

    Cave Canem

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 24 Aug 2016
  • None

#24

Posted 01 March 2017 - 03:25 PM

If it was going to provide a backdrop, I feel like we would have seen a sneak peak of it in the trailer, maybe a smouldering war debris filled field. But nothing really linked to it from what we saw, the landscape looked far too peaceful and serene.

 

I imagine it's going to be more focused on the hardship of man trying to carve a peace out of the land and strive for the "American Dream".

At least that's what their description of the game told me.

 

I'm not saying it won't be. Just my take.

  • saintsrow and AndyC1992 like this

feckyerlife
  • feckyerlife

    Big Homie

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#25

Posted 01 March 2017 - 06:26 PM

if this game is involving John, Dutch, Bill and the rest of the gang, then no. If its new characters then yes its possible. 


Duduziinho1620
  • Duduziinho1620

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2017
  • Brazil

#26

Posted 02 March 2017 - 02:48 AM

It can still have moments in the War if it's not the game main focus, as in GTA 5 "Prologue" mission...

  • The Deadite likes this

feckyerlife
  • feckyerlife

    Big Homie

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Oct 2013
  • United-States

#27

Posted 02 March 2017 - 03:10 PM

It can still have moments in the War if it's not the game main focus, as in GTA 5 "Prologue" mission...

not if it involves john, dutch and the gang. john was born 8 yrs after the war ended.

  • AndyC1992 likes this

ColePhelps
  • ColePhelps

    Browsing the forums since 2004

  • Members
  • Joined: 19 Aug 2012
  • United-States

#28

Posted 04 March 2017 - 03:44 AM

If the game does revolve around dutch gang i highly doubt the civil war will be included but i do think it will be mentioned.

I'd like to see the Indian wars included


DoomsdayFAN
  • DoomsdayFAN

    ICE

  • Members
  • Joined: 06 Oct 2012
  • Iceland

#29

Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:20 AM

I would freaking LOVE an RDR style game set during the Civil War. Would be awesome





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users