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A Female protagonist?

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Dealux
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#361

Posted 11 June 2017 - 09:01 PM

The problem is assuming that there's only one way to make the story, when in reality character arcs and progression is what make the coolest stories.

Can you create a believable female gangster? I would personally prefer more supporting female characters than actual protagonists.

Mayochiki
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#362

Posted 11 June 2017 - 09:10 PM

 

The problem is assuming that there's only one way to make the story, when in reality character arcs and progression is what make the coolest stories.

Can you create a believable female gangster? I would personally prefer more supporting female characters than actual protagonists.

 

 

I kinda wrote a proposal a few posts ago. I could write what I've been thinking but it'd be too long, but what I've put so far is believable.

 

The main idea would be starting from a middle point between a regular person and a criminal and working it out from there. Instead of "I'm a gangster but I want to be a better gangster" it would be more of a process of realizing how both sides of the law can be equally corrupt and rotten.

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Dealux
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#363

Posted 11 June 2017 - 09:34 PM

But you're missing the second part: selling that idea to the masses. The largest audience for these types of games is men. It really boils down to marketing and artistic preferences.

Mayochiki
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#364

Posted 11 June 2017 - 09:48 PM

But you're missing the second part: selling that idea to the masses. The largest audience for these types of games is men. It really boils down to marketing and artistic preferences.

 

I didn't. In those posts I mentioned about how to make the idea appealing.


CaptainMental
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#365

Posted 12 June 2017 - 10:06 PM Edited by CaptainMental, 12 June 2017 - 10:07 PM.

I predict one of the next protagonists is gonna be a law enforcement officer (cop/agent) who becomes corrupt and teams up with the other protagonists.

Wouldn't surprise me either with one of the next protagonists being female, a spicy latina maybe?

Sunrise Driver
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#366

Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:03 PM Edited by Street Mix, 14 June 2017 - 04:08 AM.

 

I'd like a female protagonist. I always play as female characters when I can. Or even a gay male character would be good. If we had to play as a R* created character then I vote for Paige Harris

Considering the grotesque way they portrayed Bernie in GTA IV, do you really trust Rockstar to write a gay character as anything other than an offensive stereotype?

 

Yep and then Evan in TBOGT.

 

Tony is OK though. I'd even have him as protag.


Femme Fatale
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#367

Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:50 PM

 

I'd like a female protagonist. I always play as female characters when I can. Or even a gay male character would be good. If we had to play as a R* created character then I vote for Paige Harris

Considering the grotesque way they portrayed Bernie in GTA IV, do you really trust Rockstar to write a gay character as anything other than an offensive stereotype?
 
Yep and then Alan in TBOGT.
 
Tony is OK though. I'd even have him as protag.
Alan? Do you mean Evan?

Sunrise Driver
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#368

Posted 14 June 2017 - 04:09 AM

Yeah, already forgot his name lol.


MentalPX
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#369

Posted 18 June 2017 - 12:04 AM Edited by MentalPX, 18 June 2017 - 12:05 AM.

I wouldn't mind if 1 of the 3 protagonists is a woman. If she's well-written, why not? Where I live at least, maybe 30-40% of cops are female. Perhaps a corrupt cop? 


Shyabang Shyabang
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#370

Posted 21 June 2017 - 08:25 AM

Here's an example of a PG-13 dangerous female protagonist:

 

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Brian Grey
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#371

Posted 21 June 2017 - 09:12 PM

I want an interesting protagonist with a good story and goal in the next grand theft auto, I don't want the first female protag just half assedly put in the game with no real personality but is just there to represent women.
I want to be told a great story, I want to be able to empathize with her, if you want a cop, maybe someone close is killed but guess what the antag has control of the law and the courts, to bring justice must be to break the law... You get what im saying? I want someone interesting not just "She's a woman".

dyspoid
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#372

Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:29 AM

I want an interesting protagonist with a good story and goal in the next grand theft auto, I don't want the first female protag just half assedly put in the game with no real personality but is just there to represent women.
I want to be told a great story, I want to be able to empathize with her, if you want a cop, maybe someone close is killed but guess what the antag has control of the law and the courts, to bring justice must be to break the law... You get what im saying? I want someone interesting not just "She's a woman".


I agree with you.

However, I think that the current cultural politics around femininity and the like will make it difficult for Rockstar to implement.

GTA gets enough flack from the SJW crowd, that any type of characterisation they utilise will be scrutinized to no end.
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orangecop
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#373

Posted 22 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

Never. I don't think Rockstar are interested in having a female lead because in Dan's own words, "Being masculine is key to the story".


evd
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#374

Posted 23 June 2017 - 06:33 AM Edited by evd, 23 June 2017 - 06:41 AM.

how old are those words?

 

 

being masculine is a key to appeal to american PG-13 audience, which is well shown by hollywood and game industry delivering stupid stereotype of a badass male for over 20 years. 


The7thOne
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#375

Posted 23 June 2017 - 03:50 PM

Like I've said before, I don't really care what the protagonist is. I just want a good story, independent of the sex of the protagonist(s). However I can't help but think that something's amiss if the writers are insecure about new ideas. Yes, some ideas don't fit in GTA, but that shouldn't stifle creativity unless it has absolutely no place in a GTA game. I don't even think at all that it's the protagonist's sex that the insecurity comes from - it's clear that the writers have no interest in trying something different other than "betrayal and abuse". That's not playing things safe, that's just not trying something new. How many games exactly have we had where the protagonist was molded in that way? More times than I could count. In the HD Universe alone, Michael, Franklin and Trevor mirrored this archetype. Niko and Roman as well, and Roman isn't even a protagonist, he's a supporting character - nearly everyone has the same troubled upbringing with abusive parents. That's lazy writing, it has nothing to do with if the protagonist is Male or Female. Sure, the past of a protagonist may not be "front-page worthy" for many people, it might even be an afterthought, but it has to do with shaping their personality later in life. If every character or protagonist is like that then it's a clear sign the writers are lazy.

 

That's what I think should be focused on instead rather than "should we have a Female protagonist". Variety in a character's past is important, especially for the protagonist - it opens up more doors for relatability between the player and the protagonist. I could even argue against my own points. Niko had the troubled upbringing but he was relatable because he obviously didn't enjoy what he was doing in IV. He hated killing people and felt remorse. That's relatable because regret is a powerful emotion that everyone understands. However, the past, as well as present, should be written with more variety for things to seem fresh.

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DaddyDirection
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#376

Posted 23 June 2017 - 06:05 PM

 

What CJ controversy? There was no controversy over CJ...

 

 

Before the game released there were people commenting that the game was portraying racist stereotypes. After the games release all that died down, and CJ is now heralded as one of the better protagonists of GTA - and probably the first that wasn't a complete psychopath.

 

http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=4&src=pm


Mayochiki
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#377

Posted 23 June 2017 - 07:20 PM

Like I've said before, I don't really care what the protagonist is. I just want a good story, independent of the sex of the protagonist(s). However I can't help but think that something's amiss if the writers are insecure about new ideas. Yes, some ideas don't fit in GTA, but that shouldn't stifle creativity unless it has absolutely no place in a GTA game. I don't even think at all that it's the protagonist's sex that the insecurity comes from - it's clear that the writers have no interest in trying something different other than "betrayal and abuse". That's not playing things safe, that's just not trying something new. How many games exactly have we had where the protagonist was molded in that way? More times than I could count. In the HD Universe alone, Michael, Franklin and Trevor mirrored this archetype. Niko and Roman as well, and Roman isn't even a protagonist, he's a supporting character - nearly everyone has the same troubled upbringing with abusive parents. That's lazy writing, it has nothing to do with if the protagonist is Male or Female. Sure, the past of a protagonist may not be "front-page worthy" for many people, it might even be an afterthought, but it has to do with shaping their personality later in life. If every character or protagonist is like that then it's a clear sign the writers are lazy.

 

That's what I think should be focused on instead rather than "should we have a Female protagonist". Variety in a character's past is important, especially for the protagonist - it opens up more doors for relatability between the player and the protagonist. I could even argue against my own points. Niko had the troubled upbringing but he was relatable because he obviously didn't enjoy what he was doing in IV. He hated killing people and felt remorse. That's relatable because regret is a powerful emotion that everyone understands. However, the past, as well as present, should be written with more variety for things to seem fresh.

 

I wrote an idea for the backstory of a female main character in this post.

 

I was kinda bummed that it didn't spark any discussion or anything, but the idea is there. No clichés about revenge, no "they killed my x, so I'm looking for revenge", no abuse story, no orphans. I think it's a solid and relatable idea for many, because it involves a simple, yet interesting idea. I'd appreciate it if you could give it a read.

 

And like I've said before, I think a woman as the protagonist needs to be humanized a lot more than any other GTA character before so she doesn't become femme fatale #9999. Other ideas I've suggested are starting with the character in a semi-legal job and from there going on with the story while showing bits of her backstory and why she ends up turning into a criminal life.

 

 

On another note, I think Sweet from San Andreas had more potential to be a main character than pretty much everyone on the saga. The idea of creating a gang in order to keep drugs out of the streets is a very neat concept because you keep all the crime elements we all love while also making the character a psychopath who pursues a greater good. Not a hero by any means, but a good antagonist for this kind of character could be a candidate for mayor/senator who's feeding crime in the city so he can be the hero.

 

And not exactly a bad guy, it could be someone with the same intention as the main character, but having different ways so they end up clashing. A GTA game that focuses on a gray area (corrupt cops, honorable thieves) could work very well. I mean, I don't think it's a secret that one side of the law doesn't make good people or bad people. That idea could make a game with a deep and human message, just like IV.


Alpha Demigod
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#378

Posted 23 June 2017 - 08:41 PM Edited by Alpha Demigod, 23 June 2017 - 08:53 PM.

So, women don't play GTA, huh?

 
That's not what he said.

This is very similar to the fallacy of composition.
 
Look at this television show.
 
the-view-6.jpg
 

 

Ask "why are there no male leadS?!!!" Men don't watch The View, huh?

 

No, they do. Sure, there might be a few guys here and there that watch this show but the audience is predominantly female. The show is designed with that in mind. The male viewers are simply outliers. There's not enough of them to have the producers of the show decide to include a male lead.
 
Sure, women DO play GTA ... but more guys play it. Thus the series has predominantly catered to that.

GTA is a global franchise and due to its popularity attracts a diverse array of gamers, including women. In fact the M/F ratio of a franchise like GTA or COD would be much higher than something like...HITMAN for example.

 

He never said girls don't play GTA. He simply said that he finds male characters easier to immerse himself in because his is a man.

 

And if there are 70 guys playing GTA and 30 girls...from a business perspective, which audience would you prefer to appeal to more?

 

Again, this is assuming R* approach their game characters in a business-minded way. They don't. They are story-first. Rockstar are like Apple...they know that no matter what they sh*t out, people will buy it anyway.

 

I agree with the other perspective on here. Rockstar will make a character that they feel best fits in with their story. They are one of the few developers (I hope) who can block out political correctness pressure and include a female just for the sake of having a female.

 

If they write a story that genuinely warrants a female character, I'm all for it. THAT should be the motivation, not checking off a diversity quota.

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VictorVince1239
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#379

Posted 23 June 2017 - 10:08 PM

Here's an example of a PG-13 dangerous female protagonist:

 

seems perfect for Tracy De Santa to me. 


Alpha Demigod
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#380

Posted 23 June 2017 - 10:52 PM

I legit want a female protaganist just so I can dress her up in heels and sports bras and all sorts of cool sh*t.

Sounds weird, I know. But still. I look at HOT gta:online characters and am like "wow!".

I really would play GTA Online for the female character customization, and I almost get around to the idea. But then I remember the shark cards and the constant grinding and loading screens and all that sh*t. And then I say "f*ck THIS"
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VictorVince1239
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#381

Posted 24 June 2017 - 02:55 AM

I just do contact missions now days because they're fun and easy to make decent money off within a hour or 2. Plus I don't have to worry about griefers. 


CGFforLife
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#382

Posted 24 June 2017 - 08:56 AM Edited by CGFforLife, 24 June 2017 - 09:11 AM.

The criminal world is a male world. It will take some work to pull it off and make a female protagonist seem realistic. I am sure that it would backlash since portraying women as criminals might cause just as much controversy.

Nobody's demanding a female protagonist, it's just gross that any time someone tries to have a discussion about possibly having a female protagonist in a GTA game, everyone flies into a misogynistic fit. Would making a female protagonist in a GTA game be easy? Not really. It would be a challenge to write a female character into a believable role that would allow them to be sympathetic enough to like but also a strong enough character to make the player feel like a badass, but it's not impossible whatsoever. I think the upsetting thing isn't that the choice wasn't made to put a female protagonist in Grand Theft Auto: Next, it probably wouldn't sell well. It's sad that people would be unwilling to play as a female character, no matter how well written or cool she is. There's very little OPTION for a woman to be a playable character if they want to succeed financially.

With that said, WHO can take a female GTA protag serious? A woman that kills cops and makes it to the top of the criminal world? She can whoop most men in the area's asses? How are prostitutes going to work? Is she going to be a stud or a girly girl? There's so many different things that make it too difficult to enjoy the game if there was a female protagonist. I ask again, HOW ARE PROSTITUTES GOING TO WORK? THIS IS A VITAL PART OF GTA! I assure you that the only reason that Tomb Raider, a female protagonist game, is successful with male gamers is because she is SEXY. Feminist complain about even that.

You have your female character, the online character. But NO main character should be female for the main story. Absolutely not.

Stop being butthurt. It simply wont be the same game.
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#383

Posted 24 June 2017 - 08:57 PM

A brief synopsis of this thread:

 

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