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Why the Columbian cartel hates you in the beginnimg

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stef_92
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#1

Posted 31 December 2016 - 04:49 AM Edited by stef_92, 31 December 2016 - 04:50 AM.

Have you ever thought why the cartel hates you from the very beginning? When you access the other islands early you can see that but is there logical (according to storyline) explanation? I remember seeing that famous white board where rockstar made the storyline (in the pre release discussion). Below the mission bomb the base you can see a sticker saying that the cartel hate is turned on. This means that at some point R* planned to make the cartel hate you after Bomb Da Base. Why it's not like that in the final game and is there any logical explanation or they were just to lazy and decided to do it that way by thinking that we would never be able to access Staunton anyway?
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unopieceo
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#2

Posted 31 December 2016 - 06:58 AM

Yeah its just an oversight. The cartel release you in the beginning of the game they have no reason to hate you, guess they just thought getting to Staunton before it's unlocked would be impossible/very difficult and not many people would be able to do it

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#3

Posted 31 December 2016 - 07:07 AM Edited by Dr. John, 31 December 2016 - 07:13 AM.

I wouldn't blame R* to act lazy. No one really was actively searching for a way to reach the other side of the town those days. The players were never supposed to access those locations at that period in the game. So yeah, we broke a certain timeline of the story by visiting the other towns. Implies, all their actions are irrelevant from the story's POV. 

 

But if that was not a blunder from R* and it did have any meaning, then I would say it's because of Catalina. We have no clear idea (or at least I don't remember) if she was in cahoots with the Colombians from the beginning of the game but I could see that happening as Bomb da Base was fairly early in the story. After the robbery, she could have gotten herself involved in their drug business. So yeah, she may have set up a bounty on his head or something as a "precaution". 

 

I have not played LCS myself so I don't know if there is any lore provided to the cartels but maybe they had beef with the Leones? And as Claude worked with them, they could have blacklisted him or something. 

 

TBH, I would love if R* gave some sort of explanation to all major plotholes of these older games. It would help me digest these games better as well.

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stef_92
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#4

Posted 31 December 2016 - 08:04 AM Edited by stef_92, 31 December 2016 - 08:05 AM.

But if that was not a blunder from R* and it did have any meaning, then I would say it's because of Catalina. We have no clear idea (or at least I don't remember) if she was in cahoots with the Colombians from the beginning of the game but I could see that happening as Bomb da Base was fairly early in the story. After the robbery, she could have gotten herself involved in their drug business. So yeah, she may have set up a bounty on his head or something as a "precaution".
TBH, I would love if R* gave some sort of explanation to all major plotholes of these older games. It would help me digest these games better as well.

Catalina learns that Claude is still alive at the end of the mission Grand Theft Auto (on the construction side), so this theory falls apart.
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Dr. John
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#5

Posted 31 December 2016 - 08:37 AM

 

But if that was not a blunder from R* and it did have any meaning, then I would say it's because of Catalina. We have no clear idea (or at least I don't remember) if she was in cahoots with the Colombians from the beginning of the game but I could see that happening as Bomb da Base was fairly early in the story. After the robbery, she could have gotten herself involved in their drug business. So yeah, she may have set up a bounty on his head or something as a "precaution".
TBH, I would love if R* gave some sort of explanation to all major plotholes of these older games. It would help me digest these games better as well.

Catalina learns that Claude is still alive at the end of the mission Grand Theft Auto (on the construction side), so this theory falls apart.

 

sh*t. That's correct. 

 

Well then I am stumped. 


ClaudeIzABadAzz
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#6

Posted 06 January 2017 - 05:12 AM

Yeah its just an oversight. The cartel release you in the beginning of the game they have no reason to hate you, guess they just thought getting to Staunton before it's unlocked would be impossible/very difficult and not many people would be able to do it

 

Well. actually the Cartel didn't free you, they freed The Old Oriental Gentleman and the door of the Enforcer remained open, so Claude and 8Ball saw the chance and took it! I always thought that the Cartel shot at you on the orders of Catalina, because she wanted you dead.


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#7

Posted 06 January 2017 - 09:30 AM Edited by spaceeinstein, 06 January 2017 - 10:06 AM.

I wouldn't blame R* to act lazy. No one really was actively searching for a way to reach the other side of the town those days. The players were never supposed to access those locations at that period in the game. So yeah, we broke a certain timeline of the story by visiting the other towns. Implies, all their actions are irrelevant from the story's POV.

This is a great explanation and most likely the reason. I feel like labeling R* as lazy for this is too critical. It's literally only one line of code that produces this behavior: "SET_THREAT_FOR_PED_TYPE PEDTYPE_GANG_COLOMBIAN THREAT_PLAYER1". Adding it at the start of the game or right after Bomb Da Base makes no difference in the end.

crashoverride93
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#8

Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:00 AM

I always thought it was because catilina betrayed him but if that were true they would have probably tried to off him when they broke out the old oreintal gentleman.

Helegad
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#9

Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:36 AM

"Look, Salvatore thinks that we're going behind his back so he was offering you to the Cartel in order to make a deal..."

 

It's not just Catalina jumping in bed with the Cartel. I agree with the timeline thing of you're not supposed to see their hostility towards you before getting to Staunton, but Salvatore would definitely have pointed out that "that prick with the spiky hair and black jacket" blew up their little factory. The Cartel would have wanted Claude dead regardless of whether or not Catalina got involved.

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DragonpokeZ
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#10

Posted 18 February 2017 - 06:00 AM

"Look, Salvatore thinks that we're going behind his back so he was offering you to the Cartel in order to make a deal..."

 

It's not just Catalina jumping in bed with the Cartel. I agree with the timeline thing of you're not supposed to see their hostility towards you before getting to Staunton, but Salvatore would definitely have pointed out that "that prick with the spiky hair and black jacket" blew up their little factory. The Cartel would have wanted Claude dead regardless of whether or not Catalina got involved.

You know, I've underestimated this line a lot. If what Maria says right here is true, this would mean that the Cartel think of you as a threat after Bomb Da Base, rumor which then reaches Catalina's hands, who then tells Miguel (Catalina's bitch at the time) to go make a deal with Salvatore, who then for whatever reason goes and offers Claude's life for peace's or business' sake


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#11

Posted 18 February 2017 - 07:57 AM

"Look, Salvatore thinks that we're going behind his back so he was offering you to the Cartel in order to make a deal..."
 
It's not just Catalina jumping in bed with the Cartel. I agree with the timeline thing of you're not supposed to see their hostility towards you before getting to Staunton, but Salvatore would definitely have pointed out that "that prick with the spiky hair and black jacket" blew up their little factory. The Cartel would have wanted Claude dead regardless of whether or not Catalina got involved.

You know, I've underestimated this line a lot. If what Maria says right here is true, this would mean that the Cartel think of you as a threat after Bomb Da Base, rumor which then reaches Catalina's hands, who then tells Miguel (Catalina's bitch at the time) to go make a deal with Salvatore, who then for whatever reason goes and offers Claude's life for peace's or business' sake
But I thought Catalina believed Claude was dead until that mission Grand Theft Aero.

crashoverride93
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#12

Posted 18 February 2017 - 08:41 AM

"Look, Salvatore thinks that we're going behind his back so he was offering you to the Cartel in order to make a deal..."
 
It's not just Catalina jumping in bed with the Cartel. I agree with the timeline thing of you're not supposed to see their hostility towards you before getting to Staunton, but Salvatore would definitely have pointed out that "that prick with the spiky hair and black jacket" blew up their little factory. The Cartel would have wanted Claude dead regardless of whether or not Catalina got involved.


That factory belonged to the triads not the colubian cartel.

So I don't see how that lines up

As far as I know the cartel weren't trying to make a deal with the triads but with the mafia.

DragonpokeZ
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#13

Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:12 AM Edited by DragonpokeZ, 18 February 2017 - 10:12 AM.

"Look, Salvatore thinks that we're going behind his back so he was offering you to the Cartel in order to make a deal..."
 
It's not just Catalina jumping in bed with the Cartel. I agree with the timeline thing of you're not supposed to see their hostility towards you before getting to Staunton, but Salvatore would definitely have pointed out that "that prick with the spiky hair and black jacket" blew up their little factory. The Cartel would have wanted Claude dead regardless of whether or not Catalina got involved.

That factory belonged to the triads not the colubian cartel.

So I don't see how that lines up

As far as I know the cartel weren't trying to make a deal with the triads but with the mafia.
You're confusing missions here:
-Blow Fish is a mission given by Toni Cipriani (AFAIK the last one by him). It consists of getting a Trashmaster that's rigged with a bomb inside the Triad Fish Factory and blowing it up.
-Bomb Da Base is a mission given by Salvatore, where Claude has to go to 8-Ball's Bomb Shop, gather $100000, then drive with 8-Ball to the ship where the Colombian Cartel is shipping/making SPANK. In this mission, Claude uses a Sniper Rifle to kill the Colombians ASAP while 8-Ball rushes to the back of the ship, plants a bomb, then runs away from the ship while the bomb goes off and the ship sinks

Helegad
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#14

Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:13 AM

 

"Look, Salvatore thinks that we're going behind his back so he was offering you to the Cartel in order to make a deal..."
 
It's not just Catalina jumping in bed with the Cartel. I agree with the timeline thing of you're not supposed to see their hostility towards you before getting to Staunton, but Salvatore would definitely have pointed out that "that prick with the spiky hair and black jacket" blew up their little factory. The Cartel would have wanted Claude dead regardless of whether or not Catalina got involved.


That factory belonged to the triads not the colubian cartel.

So I don't see how that lines up

As far as I know the cartel weren't trying to make a deal with the triads but with the mafia.

 

 

The SPANK factory on the ship, not the Triad operation.

 

Also Poke, Miguel was not an intermediary, he was with Catalina. They had nothing to do with that deal.


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#15

Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:17 AM

 

"Look, Salvatore thinks that we're going behind his back so he was offering you to the Cartel in order to make a deal..."
 
It's not just Catalina jumping in bed with the Cartel. I agree with the timeline thing of you're not supposed to see their hostility towards you before getting to Staunton, but Salvatore would definitely have pointed out that "that prick with the spiky hair and black jacket" blew up their little factory. The Cartel would have wanted Claude dead regardless of whether or not Catalina got involved.

That factory belonged to the triads not the colubian cartel.

So I don't see how that lines up

As far as I know the cartel weren't trying to make a deal with the triads but with the mafia.
 
 
The SPANK factory on the ship, not the Triad operation.
 
Also Poke, Miguel was not an intermediary, he was with Catalina. They had nothing to do with that deal.
Miguel was the Cartel's Leader at the time. He was manipulated by Catalina enough to have her run the cartel as she pleased. So once she found out Claude was alive and was rising up the ranks in the criminal world, she wanted him dead. So she used the bombing of the ship as an excuse to trick Miguel into striking a deal with the Leones: peace or business in exchange for Claude's life. Sal didn't really see much of a problem here, seeing how he banged his collection doll... I mean wife, so he said f*ck it and set up a bomb for Claude to trigger and die. Instead, Maria intervenes and saves Claude

crashoverride93
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#16

Posted 18 February 2017 - 11:36 AM

Oh OK got you now I kinda temporarily forgot about the spank ship.

Helegad
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#17

Posted 18 February 2017 - 12:11 PM Edited by Helegad, 18 February 2017 - 12:14 PM.

Miguel was not the Cartel leader at the time, who is making this sh*t up? You think a Cartel head drives getaway on a bank robbery? Does drug deals down at the docks and gets told to quit whining? There is no way.

 

Also, Maria met Salvatore in '92. He probably had something special for her waiting at home after dealing with Claude. He probably didn't appreciate her friendship with Asuka either. If anybody orchestrated anything, it's her.


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#18

Posted 18 February 2017 - 02:10 PM Edited by crashoverride93, 18 February 2017 - 02:11 PM.

You got a good point heligad because if Miguel was the boss of the cartel he wouldn't be driving a getaway car from the bank robbery.

You are absolutely right.

stef_92
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#19

Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:09 PM

Then who is Miguel and what does he have to do with the Cartel?
BTW good point, Helegad, with that dialogue line by Maria. It really explains a lot. So it really doesn't make sense for the Cartel to hate on Claude before blowing up the ship

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#20

Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:39 PM Edited by Helegad, 18 February 2017 - 10:50 PM.

Then who is Miguel and what does he have to do with the Cartel?

 

I assume he is someone higher up in the ranks of the Colombian Cartel, not the head, but not a foot soldier either. Possibly family related. He seems pretty "weak" and "inept" (tries to defuse the standoff with Claude, gives up the SPANK drop through torture, maybe "human" is a better word), so Catalina f*cks him to get her foot in the door of a powerful organization. Why she chooses the Colombians is anyone's guess. Also she probably had nothing to do with the Callahan Bridge bombing, and the whole bank robbery would have been a ruse mainly to get rid of Claude, but also to make some money at the same time.


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#21

Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:23 AM

Them hating the player is the same reason Porter Tunnel between Staunton and Shoreside isn't closed when the game starts - you're not meant to see it.

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#22

Posted 19 February 2017 - 07:36 AM

I stand corrected then. Miguel ain't the head of thw Colombians. We still don't know what canonical reason there is for the Cartel to hate Claude before Bomb Da Base

crashoverride93
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#23

Posted 19 February 2017 - 08:59 AM Edited by crashoverride93, 19 February 2017 - 09:01 AM.

Well this maybe getting off topic as well but what about when Staunton is unlocked and you see NPCs trying to constantly drive through the blue barrier that blocks you from shore side vale in the porter tunnel?

That's clearly visible and dont make since either but maybe some main scm scripting could fix these problems.

That maybe just rushed scripting.

Helegad
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#24

Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:13 PM Edited by Helegad, 19 February 2017 - 12:13 PM.

We still don't know what canonical reason there is for the Cartel to hate Claude before Bomb Da Base

 

If you need solid proof, you'll never find it, because we were never supposed to see them walking the streets before leaving Portland.

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