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General US Politics Discussion

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#31

Posted 10 November 2016 - 03:29 AM Edited by X S, 10 November 2016 - 03:34 AM.

Do they do Recall Elections at the Federal Level?

 

Depends on the state and the differential.

 

Edit:  I wanted to add, which would never happen, because the states have to act in tandem to ever effect the outcome.  Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvannia, etc. would all have to initiate recalls at their own discretion.  It would be impossible.

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#32

Posted 10 November 2016 - 03:36 AM

It's clear many people are in shock and disbelief.  Bear in mind, we've had many bitter elections, and the first was the election of 1800 between Jefferson and Adams.  They were best friends turned bitter rivals

Yeah that's totally the same thing.

 

 

 

after not talking to each other for many years, they reestablished contact with one another in old age and rekindled their friendship until death.  They both died on July 4, 1826, Independence Day.

Y'know I talk a lot of sh*t about the American state but this made a single dignified tear roll down my cheek. God really does look after the 'ol US of A. May it shine for another thousand years!


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#33

Posted 10 November 2016 - 03:41 AM

Y'know I talk a lot of sh*t about the American state but this made a single dignified tear roll down my cheek. God really does look after the 'ol US of A. May it shine for another thousand years!

 

Shouldn't you be throwing bricks and eggs right now?

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#34

Posted 10 November 2016 - 04:01 AM Edited by El Diablo, 10 November 2016 - 04:01 AM.

to be fair, your Jefferson / Adams sentiment is pretty cheesy...

 

reducing the numbers coming in by a considerable amount

this is still a fundamental disconnect between rhetoric and reality.
 
as Raavi has pointed out, Donald Trump's tough talk about border security doesn't really reflect the actual state of our immigration issue as it currently exists. illegal immigrants are not committing more crime than domestic citizens, they're not taking jobs that domestic citizens want, and they're already facing excessive deportations as they scale over/dig underneath the current border fencing. the way you and Trump talk about immigration, you'd think there was not a single foot of fence in place and that millions of people were just streaming across on a daily basis. this couldn't be further from the truth of course.
 
under Obama, Mexican immigration is turning back to neutral and even net-negative ratios.
in short? it's not an issue.
 

The ACA is going to be repealed if Obama himself can't convince him not to, so I wonder what that first meeting is going to like.  Awkward to say the least.

awkward? you think?

President Obama has to greet the man who - for over 8 years - was the singular cheerleader for questioning Obama's own legitimacy as a president, as a citizen, and as a human being. Barack Obama is the bigger man, the more mature man, and the much more empathetic and compassionate man so he'll obviously say and do all of the right things in front of the camera... but the meeting will be awkward as f/ck and there's no love lost between them.

 

Trump is no more qualified to be president today than an old pair of socks, but this is what happens when 200million people stay home and only a small fraction of angry/pissed off partisans turn out to vote.

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#35

Posted 10 November 2016 - 04:04 AM

 

Y'know I talk a lot of sh*t about the American state but this made a single dignified tear roll down my cheek. God really does look after the 'ol US of A. May it shine for another thousand years!

 

Shouldn't you be throwing bricks and eggs right now?

 

Do you believe George Washington was capable of telling lies? 


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#36

Posted 10 November 2016 - 04:15 AM

Do you believe George Washington was capable of telling lies?

 

He grew a lot of hemp.  You two would get along well.

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#37

Posted 10 November 2016 - 04:19 AM

Trump is no more qualified to be president today than an old pair of socks, but this is what happens when 200million people stay home and only a small fraction of angry/pissed off partisans turn out to vote.

 

She won the popular vote, barely, crazy system you have.

 

awkward? you think?

 

It's always awkward when you have to train your replacement at work.


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#38

Posted 10 November 2016 - 04:33 AM

news flash: third party blew it again.

simple math.

 

not only did Hillary win the popular vote, but if Gary Johnson hadn't run we'd be talking about a different outcome.

'tis a silly thing, you're right.

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#39

Posted 10 November 2016 - 05:01 AM

She's still down 6 million votes compared to Obama in 2012.


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#40

Posted 10 November 2016 - 05:16 AM Edited by El Diablo, 10 November 2016 - 05:19 AM.

well yeah; these were the 2 most unlikable candidates to ever face off.

 

the Red base turned out where expected and they turned out in force. they did a great job unifying their party.

the Blue base lacked enthusiasm as the incumbent party usually does. Bernie and Joe Biden would have performed better.

 

similar assessment could be made of the Al Gore / George Bush situation.

in that case Ralph Nader filled the role of Gary Johnson and spoiled votes that would have largely gone to Democrats.


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#41

Posted 10 November 2016 - 05:22 AM

Still blows my mind that third parties believe that all they need to be respected and have the power is to elect a president. Where are the third party mayors, governors, senators, representatives, comptrollers, what have you? How can they expect to be anything more than party poopers and useless votes in the presidential elections if they don't have a solid base? What are they all doing at local, municipal, state levels? Cause it appears they don't do anything. I've heard Jill Stein point to two green mayors in unimportant cities, and how one of them allowed gay marriages or something of the sort, and how that was a point of pride. sh*t, how many major cities are there? How many of those have a third party mayor? I'd guess none. 

That is why the third parties fail in the US.

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#42

Posted 10 November 2016 - 05:39 AM Edited by Alchemist, 10 November 2016 - 06:01 AM.

We're gonna hear a lot about the "spoiler" votes for some time. I'm all for voting your conscience, which is what a lot of people did, and unfortunately it happened a lot in crucial battleground states. I understand your frustration, I feel it too, but in a different way. Sure, maybe if Johnson supporters voted for Clinton instead, then maybe she would have won - but honestly what are the chances of that? The two aren't incredibly similar. The thing is, you cannot imply so easily that ALL of the Johnson voters (which is what, like 3 million+?) would actually all vote for Clinton. Let me also remind you that even though she was the weakest candidate to face Trump, the DNC still chose her over Bernie Sanders. You need to be worried about the vulgar, repulsive, and ignorant voter base that Trump is so famous for. 

 

By the way, the electoral college is a very silly system to use in order to elect a president. If it didn't exist, we wouldn't have situations like this one. Whoever gets the most votes, wins. It's that simple. Unfortunately, it'll most likely never be that way.

 

Look, you can be upset, but you should be upset at the ones who actually f*cked up here.


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#43

Posted 10 November 2016 - 06:22 AM

Do you guys have Gary Johnson and Jill Stein mixed up? 

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#44

Posted 10 November 2016 - 06:48 AM

Do they do Recall Elections at the Federal Level?

 
Depends on the state and the differential.
 
Edit:  I wanted to add, which would never happen, because the states have to act in tandem to ever effect the outcome.  Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvannia, etc. would all have to initiate recalls at their own discretion.  It would be impossible.
The only way for a change at the presidential level is if the president dies, is impeached, or resigns as there is no measures in place for a recall election at the federal level.

There is still one way that someone other than Trump is the next POTUS. The presidential election isn't decided based on the populous vote it is decided by the electoral collage and the electoral college still has to official vote for the president. In the majority of states electors have the option to be faithless electors where for whatever reason they don't believe the candidate that won their states will be able to carry out the duty of president. It doesn't happen often and has never changed the outcome of the an election.

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#45

Posted 10 November 2016 - 09:28 AM Edited by jatiger13, 10 November 2016 - 09:34 AM.

It will be interesting how the President-elect's backers will react when it turns out all his bombastic pie in the sky promises (...) will for the most part never be able to make good on.

You don't say. I assume you must be endowed with the ability to foresee the future. Did you predict Trump's election too?
 
I can tell you, if he doesn't keep his word, those who supported him will feel betrayed and despise him profusely.
Here's the thing though....
He doesn't only represent the people who voted for him, many of who are also against his wall idea. He represents ALL Americans, majority of which don't want a stupid, needless wall along the southern border.

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#46

Posted 10 November 2016 - 09:54 AM Edited by Melchior, 10 November 2016 - 09:55 AM.

"When we talk about radicalisation online we always talk about Muslims. But the radicalisation of white men online is at astronomical levels."

 

We've watched a few of our boys on here become increasingly irrational. 

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#47

Posted 10 November 2016 - 10:27 AM Edited by 860, 10 November 2016 - 10:30 AM.

 

First of all you're quoting a post about alt-right radicalization from a Rad Fem tumblr blog. Isn't that at least a little bit ironic? A little bit?

 

Second, like the FB friend mentioned in the post, I too come from a small all white town in Finland and 90% of all blue collar men express negative views about immigration and these aren't guys who spend their time on Chinese finger painting forums discussing Nazi frogs and meme magic (like me, one of "our boys", I assume). These are your average working class guys, both old and young. Finland is far more conservative than Scandinavia.

 

But okay.. US politics. I think I agree with Raavi in that President Trump will not be the same bully that Nominee Trump was. His victory speech was almost a complete 180. Love and unification. He even said that we all owe Hillary Clinton a lot for her great service to the nation. Also the bit about banning muslims from entering the US has already been deleted from his website.

 

An outsider to politics, a person without any political or military experience, jumped in from the sidelines and won the presidency against all odds. That's a first. I think his campaign will be studied for decades. Scott Adams will definitely have a busy schedule for the next few years.

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#48

Posted 10 November 2016 - 10:33 AM

I too come from a small all white town in Finland and 90% of all blue collar men express negative views about immigration and these aren't guys who spend their time on Chinese finger painting forums discussing Nazi frogs and meme magic (like me, one of "our boys", I assume). These are your average working class guys, both old and young. Finland is far more conservative than Scandinavia.


We should definitely have a Finnish politics thread. When is the next Finnish general election anyway?!

But yeah, President Trump will likely have a different focus than his campaign had. Trump too knows that campaign promises need to be broader than what you can actually achieve or need to achieve. Does Trump want to be a two term president? Who knows! Maybe he just wants to be like Polk.

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#49

Posted 10 November 2016 - 11:45 AM

@Raavi and El_D 

 

First of all Obama hasn't actually sent more people back than previous presidents. The statistics were heavily manipulated by the fact that under Obama "deportations" changed definition, and they included people caught near or at the border, whereas previously that never counted towards the deportation figures. The Obama deportation figures are highly misleading. He has actually sent far fewer people back compared to Bush for example, especially "established" illegal immigrants. http://www.latimes.c...0402-story.html

 

Second, you're trying to paint illegal immigration as not a big issue, downplaying it like it has no significant impact. But the demographics of entire states and regions of the U.S. are being changed by it. In 2014 there were 11.1 million illegal immigrants in the US, that's 3.5% of the nation's population. But this doesn't take into account previous millions of illegals given amnesty now not counted, or their children born in the country, which makes it more like 20 or even 30 million. They tend to live in and be concentrated in a small number of states, like Texas and California. That's not by any stretch an insignificant issue.  http://www.pewresear...ion-in-the-u-s/

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#50

Posted 10 November 2016 - 12:14 PM Edited by Tchuck, 10 November 2016 - 12:36 PM.

Second, you're trying to paint illegal immigration as not a big issue, downplaying it like it has no significant impact. But the demographics of entire states and regions of the U.S. are being changed by it. In 2014 there were 11.1 million illegal immigrants in the US, that's 3.5% of the nation's population. But this doesn't take into account previous millions of illegals given amnesty now not counted, or their children born in the country, which makes it more like 20 or even 30 million. They tend to live in and be concentrated in a small number of states, like Texas and California. That's not by any stretch an insignificant issue.  http://www.pewresear...ion-in-the-u-s/

 

11.1 million built over how many years? 3.5% of the population is nothing. I mean, I get that you hate them immigrants, but this means nothing. And technically, since most of the population of the US comes from immigrants because, you know, they're not native americans, if you look past long enough you'd find that close to 100% of the population is made up of immigrants! Illegals, as well! 290 million people! Stop the presses! The call is coming from inside the house!

 

Also, if the previous "millions of illegals" were given amnesty, doesn't that make them, I don't know, legal? And don't their children become, I don't know, citizens? Who can become productive members of society by the fact they are no longer marginalized and given the same conditions pure blood white americans receive. Why would they even be counted? Just because you don't like immigrants doesn't mean they can't integrate. Because, well, they do. sh*t, you yourself were born in the Netherlands to British parents, were you not? That makes you less British than any British person born on the isles, technically. 

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#51

Posted 10 November 2016 - 12:53 PM

By the way, the electoral college is a very silly system to use in order to elect a president. If it didn't exist, we wouldn't have situations like this one. Whoever gets the most votes, wins. It's that simple. Unfortunately, it'll most likely never be that way.

The EC system is a testament to the ingenuity of the Founding Fathers. Contrary to your perception, the Founders did not intend to create a direct democracy. The USofA is a republic organized on federalist principles.

 

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#52

Posted 10 November 2016 - 12:54 PM

What do these protestors hope to achieve? they're preventing people from working and making a living, biggest hypocrites I've seen. 

Do they think the Electoral will go "Mmmmh, they make a good point, maybe we'll host another one." 

Sounds to me like some people got pissed off because they couldn't be assed to vote.

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#53

Posted 10 November 2016 - 01:02 PM Edited by Irviding, 10 November 2016 - 01:03 PM.

http://www.cnn.com/2...ogan/index.html

 

Hillary f*cked up folks. Better yet, her people did. Don't complain about the FBI, don't complain about the electoral college, don't complain about Jill Stein. Complain about them ignoring the white middle class voter that Sanders/Biden spoke to so well. Whatever, at least we still have Chuck Schumer to filibuster the craziest of sh*t. 

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#54

Posted 10 November 2016 - 01:03 PM Edited by Eutyphro, 10 November 2016 - 01:16 PM.

I don't know about 'Bernie bros' but it's pretty clear that the hostility towards Clinton was disproportionate. People didn't react this way to Kerry or Obama, and I'm not sure to what extent I buy the narrative that this was just the tipping point. Obama was viewed as a neoliberal stooge but Clinton was viewed as inherently evil and conniving. 

 

It has to do with how she comes across, which I agree can't be seen completely seperate from her gender. The entire campaign she came across as a very scripted disingenuous politician. Some things she said, like that she 'loved hot sauce', or that 'you should vote for me because I'm a woman', were cringey on a whole new level rarely seen before, and people just don't like her as a person.

But the 'Clinton is evil' camp wasn't made up of democrat voting men. It's mainly coming from Breitbart and Fox.

But as I said before, in a certain way it was an election of male chauvinism against liberal feminism.

 

 

Complain about them ignoring the white middle class voter that Sanders/Biden spoke to so well.

 

Biden?!? Weren't you the one who supported Hillary in the Democratic primaries, and opposed bernie?

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#55

Posted 10 November 2016 - 01:12 PM

Also the bit about banning muslims from entering the US has already been deleted from his website.

It means nothing. Just because you don't see it on the website, doesn't mean he's rolling back on that pledge.

 

During the debates, he didn't call it a ban anymore, but said he would impose “extreme vetting” more stringent than the two-year process currently being employed.


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#56

Posted 10 November 2016 - 01:30 PM

Kanye 2020 watch it happen millions love Kanye

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#57

Posted 10 November 2016 - 01:32 PM

Complain about them ignoring the white middle class voter that Sanders/Biden spoke to so well.

 
Biden?!? Weren't you the one who supported Hillary in the Democratic primaries, and opposed bernie?


I may recall incorrectly, but I think he just felt that Sanders had no chance of winning from the beginning.

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#58

Posted 10 November 2016 - 01:46 PM

I too come from a small all white town in Finland and 90% of all blue collar men express negative views about immigration

So you admit you don't actually have to deal with the consequences of immigration, or have any real direct experience of it because of your location...yet still maintain strongly distrustful views of it. And that doesn't strike you as ridiculous in any way?

The EC system is a testament to the ingenuity of the Founding Fathers. 

The line between ingenuity and idiocy is both very fine and rather subjective.
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#59

Posted 10 November 2016 - 02:01 PM

I may recall incorrectly, but I think he just felt that Sanders had no chance of winning from the beginning.

 

Yeah, and he was wrong. Sanders had a media campaign against him that ridiculed him and that wanted Clinton to win from the start. Many minority voters that voted for Clinton in the primary, didn't know Sanders well, simply because msm were reporting 90% Clinton vs 10% Sanders We also know the DNC supported the failed candidate Hillary Clinton before even one vote was cast. They systematically helped the media and the Clinton campaign building a narrative against him.

I hate Trump so much, but the fact that Hillary lost is great. The msm and the dnc got their karma.

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#60

Posted 10 November 2016 - 03:00 PM

 

I too come from a small all white town in Finland and 90% of all blue collar men express negative views about immigration

So you admit you don't actually have to deal with the consequences of immigration, or have any real direct experience of it because of your location...yet still maintain strongly distrustful views of it. And that doesn't strike you as ridiculous in any way?

 

Since when does something have to impact you directly, for you to have an opinion on it? Are people not allowed to have opinions on global warming unless they live on a tiny Pacific island which is under imminent threat? Nobody can have an opinion on the Heathrow expansion unless they live near it? 





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