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General US Politics Discussion

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El Diablo
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#3181

Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:03 PM

like I've been saying all along, the only Conservatives we have left around these parts are the fake-shill cucks and sellouts.
which is too bad because Republicans actually used to have principles and a degree of reasonable common sense. they used to care more about their country than winning. they used to have a spine.
 

when all they can do is hark back to Obama or Hillary you know they've exhausted all of their ammunition. notice how there is virtually ZERO critical defense of Trump himself or the policy positions he is actually driving. notice how all they do is try and return the focus to the election and to people who aren't even in power. they just keep backpedaling on Russia. it's very telling about how weak and fragile their arguments are.

 

all they do is repeat false and generalized narratives belittling Leftism and Liberalism.

they don't actually defend Conservatism or the policies being pushed by the GOP right now.


Eutyphro
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#3182

Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:24 AM Edited by Eutyphro, 13 July 2017 - 12:30 AM.

Which is all true enough, but "media influence" and "propaganda" are not synonymous. "Propaganda" is typified by intentional misrepresentation of fact or distortion of reality to perpetuate a particular political narrative. The media outlets in the US may have close relationships with political parties and definitely seek to use their influence to perpetuate these narratives, but they are by and large are commercial entities answerable to financial stakeholders above all. Conversely, Russian media is typified by big players who are not only state owned but run directly by the Kremlin, via the Ministry of Mass Communication, for the purposes of producing favourable reporting. It's literally run as a state sponsored global PR network.

I'm with you that Russian propaganda can generally be more blatantly deceitful than the global mainstream media. But the narratives of the global mainstream media are far more powerful, and sometimes distort reality as well. The bias in the reporting on international events is rarely ever through blatant lies. More often the bias relates to the choices they make on what they cover, and what they don't cover. They still consistently implicate Assad in the most recent sarin attack, eventhough the evidence points out the attack was conducted from the ground and not from an aircraft. And as a result of this perpetuated lie, the US bombed the Syrian army.
 

Weren't you also the one claiming to be over 50 years old or something? How's that going for you these days?

Why the f*ck would it matter how old he is actually?

 

he's not even following along.

You are not following along yourself. You haven't even answered me, and spend all your energy on confused tirades and insults. You reap what you sow.
 

it's very telling about how weak and fragile their arguments are.

Says the guy who only throws tantrums and insults around, and who I have yet to see have a decent discussion on this forum, ever.
 

fake-shill cvcks and sellouts

lol?

Also, why does the forum change cvcks with a u in stead of a v into 'nice people' lmao? Though it doesn't when Diablo posts it?
 

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The Yokel
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#3183

Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:24 AM

Why the f*ck would it matter how old he is actually?

It matters that he's lying. He gives off an impression of someone who's barely old enough to vote.

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sivispacem
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#3184

Posted 13 July 2017 - 07:06 AM

I'm with you that Russian propaganda can generally be more blatantly deceitful than the global mainstream media. But the narratives of the global mainstream media are far more powerful, and sometimes distort reality as well. The bias in the reporting on international events is rarely ever through blatant lies. More often the bias relates to the choices they make on what they cover, and what they don't cover.

All of which is true, but doesn't really sell "propaganda" without the underlying political motivation.

They still consistently implicate Assad in the most recent sarin attack, eventhough the evidence points out the attack was conducted from the ground and not from an aircraft.

Can you cite this one? In not sure I agree that the evidence points to a ground based attack, not that such an attack method would actually absolve Assad anyway.

The Yokel
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#3185

Posted 13 July 2017 - 07:37 AM Edited by The Yokel, 13 July 2017 - 07:37 AM.

Jeff Sessions unexpectedly settled a Russian money laundering case. And you'll never guess who the Russian lawyer involved in the case was: http://www.businessi...use-dems-2017-7

 

Small world.

 

This is shady stuff. But shady stuff is what you should expect from an Attorney General who perjured himself during his confirmation hearing.


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#3186

Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:18 PM

Revisting this "The Left has more violent radical acts than the Right" idea, here is an actual list compiled by someone who is not equating someone's registered political party with their ideals... Though I can't comment on whether it's biased or not.

 

http://www.johnstons...m/wrjp255a.html

 

Left: 36

Right: 46

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Eutyphro
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#3187

Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:57 PM

Can you cite this one? In not sure I agree that the evidence points to a ground based attack, not that such an attack method would actually absolve Assad anyway.

I based it on this: http://husseini.post...-shaykhun-syria

But reading more about it, I found out the reliability might be dubious. I don't have the expertise myself to check any of the claims, so I'd be interested what you think about it.


sivispacem
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#3188

Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:28 PM

Can you cite this one? In not sure I agree that the evidence points to a ground based attack, not that such an attack method would actually absolve Assad anyway.

I based it on this: http://husseini.post...-shaykhun-syria

But reading more about it, I found out the reliability might be dubious. I don't have the expertise myself to check any of the claims, so I'd be interested what you think about it.
Given the author of that report suggests that the Ghouda attack, which has been almost unequivocally confirmed to have been committed by Syrian warplanes, wasn't, I have very little faith in his evaluation.

Though Postol is an emeritus professor of Science, Technology and National Security, nothing in his educational or occupational history suggest he's at all qualified to speak on the subject of chemical weapon attacks or to identify the validity or otherwise of claims from basic photographs. His claims regarding the earlier Ghouda attack having been conducted using a ground launched MLRS strike me as poorly evidenced, and nothing in them seems to preclude the notion that air-launched rockets could have been equally responsible.

El Diablo
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#3189

Posted 13 July 2017 - 07:12 PM

You are not following along yourself. You haven't even answered me, and spend all your energy on confused tirades and insults. You reap what you sow.

Says the guy who only throws tantrums and insults around, and who I have yet to see have a decent discussion on this forum, ever.

blah blah blah blah.

sorry, all I heard was "I'm not willing to quote or defend any of the points that have been raised, so I'll just belittle the poster and ignore them."

 

when you're prepared to counter any of the points that have been made, I'll be waiting. until then stop replying to me. you add nothing to the discussion. we're talking about the so-called Conservative movement in this country and the people who enable the racist and financially ruinous policies being pushed by the current POTUS.

 

you can keep pointing your finger at me and ignoring the reality of our situation, or we can talk about the ruinous and racist policies being driven by Trump; since that is the topic at hand. the choice is yours, really. all I've done is talk about the president and his agenda and all you've done is talk about me. it's really betraying your inability to defend any of it.


Eutyphro
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#3190

Posted 13 July 2017 - 07:39 PM

I actually responded and quoted your comment towards me. Some of it, but not a majority of it, was ad hominem, but within context that was warranted.
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El Diablo
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#3191

Posted 13 July 2017 - 10:48 PM

yes I heard you  :sigh: I know that you'd like to think I'm just diatrib'ing away all by myself, and to pretend that what's going on right now is a big ole' conspiracy by the media, but unfortunately for you it's not a diatribe if it's true and I'm far from alone on this issue.

 

 

but go on with your excuses and ignorance of reality.

go on now... keep telling yourself that it's just me.


The Yokel
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#3192

Posted 14 July 2017 - 07:29 AM Edited by The Yokel, 14 July 2017 - 07:30 AM.

I found a nice compilation of the differences between Republicans and Democrats. Not empty words, lies and promises, but a real difference. This is how they vote in the House and the Senate: https://np.reddit.co...ecutor/dhpcbdc/

 

So looking at this, what about the Republican party is so appealing to conservatives that they absolutely must vote for these f*ckin' maniacs?


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#3193

Posted 14 July 2017 - 09:10 AM

So looking at this, what about the Republican party is so appealing to conservatives that they absolutely must vote for these f*ckin' maniacs?

Poking the beehive, but have you ever thought that perhaps unlike yourself they actually agree?

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sivispacem
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#3194

Posted 14 July 2017 - 09:43 AM

Maybe with some of the more ideology driven stuff, yes, but I don't really see why Republicans would support legislation aimed at taking yet more money out of citizens' pockets to further laden the already groaning gravy train, or arguing in favour of using public money to pay for Presidential election campaigns. Both of those seem fundamentally opposed to the "small government, free market, low taxation" platform that typically underpins their political views.
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Eutyphro
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#3195

Posted 14 July 2017 - 09:58 AM

@Diablo: I take that as you conceding the points I raised on the previous page. Furthermore, what makes you think I don't take issue with the Republicans? It's rather that noone is coherently defending them here anyway. If many people were then that would be what I would argue against.
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The Yokel
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#3196

Posted 14 July 2017 - 10:33 AM

 

So looking at this, what about the Republican party is so appealing to conservatives that they absolutely must vote for these f*ckin' maniacs?

Poking the beehive, but have you ever thought that perhaps unlike yourself they actually agree?

Not when you hear them speak. That's the odd part. It's like they have no idea what the Republican party truly stands for and what they're voting for. It's amazing how misinformed they are.

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El Diablo
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#3197

Posted 14 July 2017 - 07:39 PM

@Diablo: I take that as you conceding the points I raised on the previous page. Furthermore, what makes you think I don't take issue with the Republicans? It's rather that noone is coherently defending them here anyway. If many people were then that would be what I would argue against.

literally what point are you referring to?

 

you don't seem to understand how politics works.

by not renouncing this nonsense, you're enabling and endorsing it. you're another arm of the Trump Defense Initiative. up to now, the only discussion we get out of you is this generic bashing of of "Leftism" and making fun of Hillary Clinton in a vain attempt to distract from the real problems that Donald Trump is facing.

 

you're just part of the problem and you don't even get it.


El Diablo
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#3198

Posted 14 July 2017 - 08:06 PM Edited by El Diablo, 14 July 2017 - 08:38 PM.

 

So looking at this, what about the Republican party is so appealing to conservatives that they absolutely must vote for these f*ckin' maniacs?

Poking the beehive, but have you ever thought that perhaps unlike yourself they actually agree?

if they actually agree?

it's only more evidence of how hypocritical and treasonous their behavior is...

 

Republicans bill themselves as the stewards of fiscal and social responsibility and individual liberty. that's how they sell their whole brand. that's been their public persona. they pretend to care about the budget and high-horse family values. but all you have to do is look at their voting record to see how completely stuffed-full of horse sh/t they are.

 

- Republicans vote no for campaign finance reform

- Republicans vote no for regulatory financial reform

- Republicans vote in favor of massive borrowing and tax cuts which only hurt the deficit and grow the debt

- Republicans vote no for equal protections under the law for minorities and gay people

- Republicans vote in favor of allowing private businesses to discriminate based on sex and religion

- Republicans vote no on closing corporate tax shelters and loopholes

- Republicans vote no on the women's fair-pay act

- Republicans vote no on the college loan restructuring act
- Republicans vote no on the 9/11 first respondents health care act

- Republicans vote in favor of their own Congressional single-payer health insurance plans but deny the rest of the country equal access to affordable care
- Republicans vote no on every single jobs bill and jobs-retraining bill that has ever come onto the floor since the 2008 recession

 

so the party who talks about responsibility and liberty the most is the party who actually supports it the least.

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ten-a-penny
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#3199

Posted 14 July 2017 - 09:38 PM

I'm also convinced that many people who vote for Republicans, they do so simply because "if its a Rep I'm votin" mentality. So long as they vote for anything that isn't a Dem, and so long as their vote is a Rep, they're happy. Even if the dude they're electing/voting for will hurt them.

 

Proof? Loon no further than Drumpf's minions.


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#3200

Posted 15 July 2017 - 02:54 AM

The opposite could be said also. There are people who will vote for anyone if there's a D next to their names.

 

 

Maybe with some of the more ideology driven stuff, yes, but I don't really see why Republicans would support legislation aimed at taking yet more money out of citizens' pockets to further laden the already groaning gravy train, or arguing in favour of using public money to pay for Presidential election campaigns. Both of those seem fundamentally opposed to the "small government, free market, low taxation" platform that typically underpins their political views.

 

Costs have gone out of control, 2 point some billions the last one cost

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Triple Vacuum Seal
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#3201

Posted 18 July 2017 - 03:37 AM Edited by Triple Vacuum Seal, 18 July 2017 - 05:07 PM.

That style of leadership only works in nations with no accountability, no freedom of the press.

 
This is really where DJT miscalculated. The US may be an oligarchy, but it's no monarchy, and especially no autocracy.  His exploitative brand of deal brokering can only go so far in the public sector.  Not far at all seeing as the most skilled negotiators even in the private sector are those who can build consensus and develop long-term mutually beneficial 'deals'.  Trump's inheritance is the only reason he's gotten this far.
 
 

Jump Jr voluntarily releases evidence...

 
They have mismanaged this entire affair...almost to the point that trying to save face did more harm than outright lying.
 
When high-profile figures who are subject to aggressive media scrutiny choose to release potentially self-incriminating material, it's almost always a case of 'getting ahead of the story'.  Wouldn’t be surprised if some sort of legal counsel directed him to do so after realizing that Mueller (or even the media) already got wind of the meeting and thus it would become public anyway.
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El Diablo
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#3202

Posted 18 July 2017 - 04:42 AM Edited by El Diablo, 18 July 2017 - 04:44 AM.

this administration gives new meaning to the word incompetency.

just this week Donald claimed that he has already signed more legislation than any other president to date. another bold-faced lie, the latest in a long list of blatant lies he has told both before and since taking office.

 

https://www.washingt...-any-president/

 

and despite being opposed by insurance industry trade groups, numerous Republican congressmen, opposed by the American Medical Association, opposed by the AARP, and opposed by about 30 states governors, the GOP continues to push toward another vote on their new health care bill. despite controlling all of government... this is what; their 3rd or 4th attempt after several failures. and this time they're actually putting out attack ads against the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office in an attempt to undermine its assessment that 20+ million people will lose their insurance.

 

https://www.nytimes....ohn-mccain.html

 

more lies from the POTUS.

their plan will slash medicaid, reintroduce discrimination based on preexisting conditions, and give a giant tax-cut to the millionaire/billionaire class. disgusting behavior as usual. Trump supporters couldn't be happier voting themselves into an early grave.


sivispacem
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#3203

Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:18 AM

Looks like the latest effort at repeal and replace is dead too. Scuppered by the right of the Republican party. http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-40639909

Odds are they aren't going to get enough support for a straight repeal anyway, so it looks like Obamacare is here to stay for at least the foreseeable future.

The Yokel
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#3204

Posted 19 July 2017 - 07:11 AM Edited by The Yokel, 19 July 2017 - 08:06 AM.

Trump and Putin had a second, undisclosed meeting at G-20: http://thehill.com/h...ing-during-g-20

 

pp,220x200-pad,220x200,ffffff.u2.jpg

 

We know why, of course. Even if dumb Trumpets are still delusional about it: https://www.yahoo.co...-231301145.html

 

Your boy works for Kremlin.


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#3205

Posted 20 July 2017 - 04:02 AM

Trump and Putin had a second, undisclosed meeting at G-20: http://thehill.com/h...ing-during-g-20

 

pp,220x200-pad,220x200,ffffff.u2.jpg

 

We know why, of course. Even if dumb Trumpets are still delusional about it: https://www.yahoo.co...-231301145.html

 

Your boy works for Kremlin.

better be friends with russians than globalists(I don't like both by the way, but I prefer be friend with an ex-KGB agent than make war with them)


Who searched about Trump bussiness, always knew he was friended with russians 


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#3206

Posted 20 July 2017 - 04:30 AM

Well, if you approve of the friendship Putin and Trump has built, then I can see why you are happy with President Trump.

But why is the Trump Administration not giving back the two Russian compounds that the Russian state used to own in the United States? After all, it was President Obama's doing of seizing those properties, and surely Putin's friend Trump would be handing those properties back.

Moscow is losing its patience with Washington over the compounds, and it doesn't seem like the State Department has ruled out giving them back, but neither have they made a move the other way. This is not how a friend treats a friend. You are honest with your friends.
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Waifus_2
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#3207

Posted 20 July 2017 - 05:53 AM

Well, if you approve of the friendship Putin and Trump has built, then I can see why you are happy with President Trump.

But why is the Trump Administration not giving back the two Russian compounds that the Russian state used to own in the United States? After all, it was President Obama's doing of seizing those properties, and surely Putin's friend Trump would be handing those properties back.

Moscow is losing its patience with Washington over the compounds, and it doesn't seem like the State Department has ruled out giving them back, but neither have they made a move the other way. This is not how a friend treats a friend. You are honest with your friends.

it's like ''the enemy of my enemy is my friend'' and Trump used it on elections and now the are like best friend because Putin always wanted someone to stop sanction on his government


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#3208

Posted 20 July 2017 - 06:17 AM

Well, if you approve of the friendship Putin and Trump has built, then I can see why you are happy with President Trump.

But why is the Trump Administration not giving back the two Russian compounds that the Russian state used to own in the United States? After all, it was President Obama's doing of seizing those properties, and surely Putin's friend Trump would be handing those properties back.

Moscow is losing its patience with Washington over the compounds, and it doesn't seem like the State Department has ruled out giving them back, but neither have they made a move the other way. This is not how a friend treats a friend. You are honest with your friends.

and they need to be calom, we know that Trump and Putin become friends after the G20 and this will happen step by step


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#3209

Posted 20 July 2017 - 08:32 AM

Can you a) refrain from double posting and b) ensure your posts meet the minimum standards in here. That means coherent arguments, well evidenced, and at least an effort to post stuff that isn't obviously nonsense.
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The Yokel
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#3210

Posted 20 July 2017 - 09:56 AM

If anyone had any doubts that the so called "voter fraud commission" was anything other than a blatant attempt of voter suppression, this should make it clear: http://www.slate.com...o_gut_nvra.html





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