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Attack in Nice, France

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Craig
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#31

Posted 15 July 2016 - 01:20 AM

Thread being locked because of the usual GTAForums terrorist attack reaction/arguments. You can get continued updates about the attack at the live reddit thread here. Thanks and stay safe.

 

 

 

EDIT: Reopened this and moved it to D&D. Right off the bat, the topic wasn't simply going to be filled with the usual condolences sentiments. At the end of the day, it's a world event and quite a major one at that. Not only are terrorist/extremist attacks frighteningly frequent at the moment, but having this open may allow for more structured debates... maybe. We'll see what happens and let it do it's thing.

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#32

Posted 15 July 2016 - 02:41 AM

not sure if this video will work for everyone or not, but it's SFW.

the very beginning of the attack.

 

 

death toll is currently 80.


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#33

Posted 15 July 2016 - 02:57 AM

Jesus christ, this is f*cking horrible. Reports of people being shot or blown up by terrorists I've even grown accustomed to in a weird way, but seeing that truck drive towards those people knowing it will crush and kill 80 with many more badly injured at the moment is just stomach turning on a new level.


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#34

Posted 15 July 2016 - 03:04 AM

Yeah there's a strange added creepyness to it, seeing that truck lumbering towards those poor people. I saw a video of the aftermath, dozens of people laying on the ground, people moaning in pain, others crying for their loved ones. Absolutely horrifying sobering stuff. 

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#35

Posted 15 July 2016 - 03:06 AM

This is pretty feckin' terrible, but it's kinda sh*t looking at comments about it everywhere and there's tons talking about "sandni**ers" and "mudslimes", here to just use this as a vehicle for their sh*tty racism (yeah yeah "Islam isn't a race :^)" and all that bullsh*t that no one falls for) or saying all Muslims should be deported/shot literally whenever this happens.

These deaths are sad and my heart goes out to families and friends of those affected, so kindly f*ck off with that bullsh*t. I'm more mentioning it because I was surprised at how many comments like that there are.
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018361
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#36

Posted 15 July 2016 - 03:21 AM

My pal from Canada went to Europe. I know he has french family so it's possible that he might have gone to France. He didn't say specifically where he was going but I just hope that he's alright if France is where he went. I'm trying to get a hold of him now.


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#37

Posted 15 July 2016 - 03:26 AM

My pal from Canada went to Europe. I know he has french family so it's possible that he might have gone to France. He didn't say specifically where he was going but I just hope that he's alright if France is where he went. I'm trying to get a hold of him now.

France is big mate. I bet he's alright.

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#38

Posted 15 July 2016 - 04:06 AM

This is pretty feckin' terrible, but it's kinda sh*t looking at comments about it everywhere and there's tons talking about "sandni**ers" and "mudslimes", here to just use this as a vehicle for their sh*tty racism (yeah yeah "Islam isn't a race :^)" and all that bullsh*t that no one falls for) or saying all Muslims should be deported/shot literally whenever this happens.

These deaths are sad and my heart goes out to families and friends of those affected, so kindly f*ck off with that bullsh*t. I'm more mentioning it because I was surprised at how many comments like that there are.

I'm glad that at least we havent got much of those guys on gtaforums though.

RIP.


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#39

Posted 15 July 2016 - 05:40 AM Edited by Svip, 15 July 2016 - 05:45 AM.

These terrible tragedies highlight - beyond their apparent terribleness - that the counter-security measures we put in place aren't working. If we want to weather terrorist attacks before they happen with counter-security measures, we better start implementing actual police states. But I don't think we have the stomach nor the resources for that.

The problem is not that an attack like this is possible to do. The problem is that someone wants to do it.

And regardless of our attempts to prevent these people movement, some will always slip through. What we should prevent is the hateful messages getting through. Not by censorship, but by killing the sender.

Unfortunately, we don't actually have the resources for killing ISIS either. Western countries remain reluctant at stepping up military spending, despite the threats. Bombing ISIS seems like we are doing something, but we are not killing them fast enough.

As a personal frequent visitor to Nice (with family there right now, they are OK though), I confess that this attack has hit me somewhat harder than others.
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El Diablo
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#40

Posted 15 July 2016 - 06:18 AM Edited by El Diablo, 15 July 2016 - 06:20 AM.

These terrible tragedies highlight - beyond their apparent terribleness - that the counter-security measures we put in place aren't working. If we want to weather terrorist attacks before they happen with counter-security measures, we better start implementing actual police states. But I don't think we have the stomach nor the resources for that.

The problem is not that an attack like this is possible to do. The problem is that someone wants to do it.

this bit is well said.

 

but then you go on to say something about "killing the sender."

by your own admission it seems there aren't enough bombs in the world to accomplish such a task. Western countries shouldn't have to shoulder the majority military spending effort anyhow. we never should have started but it certainly cannot go on much longer. the problem is that this shouldn't be a Western fight. you already said it to begin with: the issue is that someones wants to do these things.

 

how do we cultivate a new environment?

not a perfect world. that's impossible. someone will always be prone to individual insanity. but how do we actually begin to affect this clash of civilizations and ideals? it will never be with bullets or bombs or blood. it has to come through a serious and concerted and consistent assault of education, civil society, some semblance of moderation, and secularism. virtually all of these things are completely absent throughout much of the Middle East. there's like a thousand f/cking Mosques for every one football park. and you know, the same thing could have been said about much of Europe before the so-called democratic revolutions that began to overthrow the monarchies. there was no civil society. just churches and crusades. but then we had our revolution.

 

the Middle East needs to have their revolution.

this isn't our fight. we shouldn't be over there. they don't want us over there. radical Imams are one thing but you've also got generations of people who have been raised in a desert (AKA their homeland) which has been absolutely destroyed and converted to rubble by generations of Western Colonialism and invasions; a desert (AKA their homeland) which has been totally littered with drone strikes and rusted out ordinance that proudly reads MADE IN THE USA all over the side. our insatiable lust for oil and cheap labor and cheap construction is what ensures this vicious cycle. we need to pull out. this is the root of all the evil. we support the most cruel of regimes in exchange for our swift and uninterrupted access to their great oil reserves. we need to get the f/ck out of this mess.

 

the people who really care about Islam need to save it from itself.

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#41

Posted 15 July 2016 - 06:47 AM

This is just terrible, rip to all those who died just trying to have their Bastille day.

One thing I'm curious about though, why is it that it always takes a good while before the perpetrator's identity is released? If there was ID in the truck and possible rental records, why the wait?

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#42

Posted 15 July 2016 - 06:52 AM

Yeah there's a strange added creepyness to it, seeing that truck lumbering towards those poor people. I saw a video of the aftermath, dozens of people laying on the ground, people moaning in pain, others crying for their loved ones. Absolutely horrifying sobering stuff. 


It's like a f*cking monster.

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#43

Posted 15 July 2016 - 06:58 AM

Apparently the death toll has risen to 84. Absolute madness.

This is terrible, the world is truly in some dark days right now.


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#44

Posted 15 July 2016 - 07:06 AM

Another disgusting attack in France.

RIP to the victims and their families....

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#45

Posted 15 July 2016 - 07:29 AM Edited by Mr. Fartenhate, 15 July 2016 - 07:31 AM.

This is nightmarish and disgusting. Both the actual attack and reactions to it.

f*ck all this, man.

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#46

Posted 15 July 2016 - 07:49 AM Edited by Sir Michael, 15 July 2016 - 07:52 AM.

Out of all these attacks I've read about these past few years, this one is up there are one of the most disturbing. It takes a serious psychopath to do what happened in Nice.

 

Rest in Peace to the victims... really terrible that this happened.

 

One thing I'm curious about though, why is it that it always takes a good while before the perpetrator's identity is released? If there was ID in the truck and possible rental records, why the wait?

 

This is something that's been bothering me also, but it was the evening over there when this happened. They'll most likely disclose the identity of the driver in the morning like they did with the Dallas shooter.


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#47

Posted 15 July 2016 - 08:25 AM Edited by Svip, 15 July 2016 - 08:29 AM.

These terrible tragedies highlight - beyond their apparent terribleness - that the counter-security measures we put in place aren't working. If we want to weather terrorist attacks before they happen with counter-security measures, we better start implementing actual police states. But I don't think we have the stomach nor the resources for that.

The problem is not that an attack like this is possible to do. The problem is that someone wants to do it.

this bit is well said.
 
but then you go on to say something about "killing the sender."
by your own admission it seems there aren't enough bombs in the world to accomplish such a task. Western countries shouldn't have to shoulder the majority military spending effort anyhow. we never should have started but it certainly cannot go on much longer. the problem is that this shouldn't be a Western fight. you already said it to begin with: the issue is that someones wants to do these things.


I realise my language may have been blunt. But I actually meant more than bombs. I suppose initially I purely thought of simply taking them out, but the term 'resources' is actually suppose to cover much more than that. The Afghanistan and Iraq Wars prove that the West may have the resources to take over countries, but not to keep the peace. We should definitely not get involved in that again.

I agree that the Middle East needs its own revolution (and we thought the Arab Spring might have been that), but I am unsure how long the West is willing to sit idly by while more attacks like these occur. And that's when problems arise. Because then the West is likely to take action. People in the West will demand action, because senseless things are happening and the governments are not doing anything.

But as senseless and terrible as these attacks are, it's still incredibly safe to live in France. Most terror attacks still occur outside the Western world. On 3 July, a bomb killed over 300 people in Baghdad. I don't want attacks of this nature to turn into a competition, but they should not encourage us to abandon everything we are.

Yes, I am walking back my statement that the West needs to act now. Because while I know what the solution looks like, I do not believe the West can ignite it. Indeed I would believe significant Western involvement would simply taint such a solution. And the alternatives are simply not applicable.

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#48

Posted 15 July 2016 - 09:07 AM

This is absolutely horrifying, I was following the story for hours last night, right from 'truck crash' to 'at least 70 dead' - it's absolutely horrifying and we need to unite to fight ever aspect of radical Islamic terrorism, no political correctness.

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#49

Posted 15 July 2016 - 09:18 AM

What is scary is the different techniques that these terrorists are using, from suicide bombing, shooting nightclubs/music halls and now running people over with trucks. It must be a nightmare for security services to try and prevent attacks like these, especially if its a lone wolf who knows how not to  attract attention and keeps a low profile. 

 

 

Seeing the footage of people dead and wounded on the road calling out in pain truly made me sick. RIP to the victims. 


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#50

Posted 15 July 2016 - 09:48 AM

What the f*ck is wrong with these people?


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#51

Posted 15 July 2016 - 10:20 AM Edited by Failure, 15 July 2016 - 10:21 AM.

Yeah there's a strange added creepyness to it, seeing that truck lumbering towards those poor people. I saw a video of the aftermath, dozens of people laying on the ground, people moaning in pain, others crying for their loved ones. Absolutely horrifying sobering stuff. 

 

It's absolutely chilling and easily the most devestating terror attack of its kind, but not the first. Car-ramming attacks have become worryingly frequent in Israel:

 

 

 

 

In Israel, car-ramming attacks have featured heavily in a wave of Palestinian terrorism and violence that has killed at least 34 Israelis, two Americans, an Eritrean and a Sudanese since October last year. Some 215 Palestinians have been killed in the terror wave; Israel says most were attackers or would-be attackers who died in the course of carrying out attacks. Additional car-ramming attacks, some of them lethal, were carried out by Palestinians in Jerusalem and the West Bank in late 2014.

 

http://www.timesofis...-lethal-weapon/

 

It must be terrifying to be standing at a bus stop and there suddenly be a car bearing down on you with someone of murderous intent behind the wheel. Lee Rigby was driven over before his murder as well, so this isn't an entirely new phenomenon. Inciters of terror encourage the use of vehicles as easy-access weapons.


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#52

Posted 15 July 2016 - 10:31 AM

What the f*ck. This is devastating. 


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#53

Posted 15 July 2016 - 10:33 AM

What the f*ck is wrong with these people?

Most likely the prioritizing of religious identity over that of the country they currently live in. That's where all this stems from, you know. At the end of the day, foreign religions with foreign Gods, foreign sites of pilgrimage, will always breed instability.

Why should a French citizen, as I believe the news is saying this killer was, feel any loyalty to France when everything in their spiritual life revolves around the Middle East? Christianity, before the Protestant reformation, solved this very issue with patron saints, the equivalent of localised demigods with relics and shrines, a native link to a Christian God founded in a far off land.

Islam has nothing of the sort, but they should try to. Were Islam to nationalise itself, as Henry VIII did to the English Church, I would wager most of these problems would go away in time.

 

Essentially, the nation must supplant God. Everything must work towards the nation, nothing should be outside the nation.


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#54

Posted 15 July 2016 - 12:22 PM Edited by HeavyDuke, 15 July 2016 - 12:25 PM.

not sure if this video will work for everyone or not, but it's SFW.

the very beginning of the attack.

 

 

death toll is currently 80.

The truck already looks beat up right there.

 

 


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#55

Posted 15 July 2016 - 12:35 PM

Essentially, the nation must supplant God. Everything must work towards the nation, nothing should be outside the nation.

 

Exactly, but the problem is you cannot force people to identify and think that way. You can encourage it to varying degrees however, but most Western countries barely even do this any more, if at all. They allow and sometimes even encourage the opposite, for foreigners to keep their old identities. You see the same attitudes so often "What even is French/British/German/X culture? You can't rigidly define it, therefore everything and anything is X culture." Everyone must be thought of and treated equally, so a person who's ancestors come from another part of the world, who largely identifies with the culture of his ancestors, and who surrounds himself with people who's ancestors also come from the same part of the world as his ancestors, is just as much a French/British/German/X as someone who's ancestry and culture is deeply rooted in the nation they actually live in.

 

That sort of attitude, spread by our own governments, parroted by the media and with very little public opposition, just weakens the national identity and strengthens the people who want to import foreign cultures and identities, and creates a divided society. Which is an issue regardless of the foreign culture and society you're importing and allowing to flourish, but it's especially an issue when it's an Islamic identity and society because Islam is so at odds with our own cultures and societies. 


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#56

Posted 15 July 2016 - 12:42 PM Edited by Caysle, 15 July 2016 - 12:42 PM.

RIP to all victims...


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#57

Posted 15 July 2016 - 01:20 PM

And it happened right before our emergency state was about to end.


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#58

Posted 15 July 2016 - 03:35 PM Edited by Black_MiD, 15 July 2016 - 05:36 PM.

Essentially, the nation must supplant God. Everything must work towards the nation, nothing should be outside the nation.

 

Sorry to piss on your cult, but "nations" don't exist. They're a vapid piece of ideology that tries to camouflage the conditions of specific groups inside society and discourage those groups from pursuing their struggles because, somehow, "we're all in this together". That's a major principle of class collaboration… you know the rest, don't you? The reason people don't feel any "loyalty" to France is that France is a hunk of land, not a sentient being. The 'nation' only exists in your mind because you're not part of any struggling group and make no effort to understand their plight. Maybe it woud help if you tried to confront the real world by developing a less childish outlook on it and by showing some actual internationalism and solidarity, both with the victims of this disgusting attack and with Muslim communities in the rest of the world who are just as disgusted with it as anyone else and, because of this attitude will now face reinforced bigotry. 

 

 

Essentially, the nation must supplant God. Everything must work towards the nation, nothing should be outside the nation.

 

Exactly, but the problem is you cannot force people to identify and think that way. You can encourage it to varying degrees however, but most Western countries barely even do this any more, if at all. They allow and sometimes even encourage the opposite, for foreigners to keep their old identities.

Lol, congrats on fully agreeing with a paraphrased Mussolini quote. It's very telling that your first impulse is to make the deaths of dozens of people a soapbox for (literally) fascist talking points.

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#59

Posted 15 July 2016 - 03:45 PM Edited by Eutyphro, 15 July 2016 - 03:49 PM.

Which is an issue regardless of the foreign culture and society you're importing and allowing to flourish, but it's especially an issue when it's an Islamic identity and society because Islam is so at odds with our own cultures and societies. 

 

 

On the suspect:

 


"His wife’s cousin Walid Hamou told MailOnline: “Bouhlel was not religious. He did not go to the mosque, he did not pray, he did not observe Ramadan. He drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs. This is all forbidden under Islam. ‘He was not a Muslim, he was a sh*t. He beat his wife, my cousin, he was a nasty piece of work

He was reported to be a “loner” who became depressed after his wife left him."

 

 

 

So maybe a bit quick for you Stu, others in this topic, and the media, to call him a terrorist because he was brown? I bet if he was white he would've just been a mentally ill mass murderer.

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#60

Posted 15 July 2016 - 04:35 PM

We call this scumbag a terrorist not because of his skin color or even religion. He's a terrorist becouse he is terrorizing people. The sooner people recognize this in ideological terms the better.

Adding my RIP and prayers as well.
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