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Shooting At Orlando Nightclub

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make total destroy
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#31

Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:35 PM Edited by make total destroy, 12 June 2016 - 03:36 PM.

Again, a U.S. citizen radicalized here in the U.S. Not an immigrant, not a refugee, a naturalized U.S. citizen.

 

If people could not use this tragedy to push their garbo political agendas and not turn this into a discussion about immigrants and refugees, that would be great.

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#32

Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:36 PM Edited by Failure, 12 June 2016 - 03:52 PM.

@MTD: As horrid as this attack was, it's part of the wider trend of "homegrown" extremists, usually second or third generation Muslim immigrants or native converts who go on to be radicalised (almost always the former case). We saw this during the 7/7 attacks. I doubt you'd get this from a "fresh off the boat" refugee from Syria (indeed, many are Sunnis fleeing Assad, and if they wanted to be jihadists they could just walk to ISIS territory and be done with it), but you could well get it from their children or grandchildren. 

 

In the UK many Sunni Muslim immigrants from South Asia came to the UK after India's independence and worked hard to integrate and establish themselves here. Sadly there's an alarming radical trend amongst their children and grandchildren. This is sort of what we're seeing here as the parents of the shooter are horrified and surprised by his actions:

 

 

 

We are saying we are apologizing for the whole incident. We weren’t aware of any action he is taking. We are in shock like the whole country,” NBC news said, reading out his statement.

 

http://www.timesofis...ng-rises-to-50/

 

 

 

Refugees tend to be appreciative towards the country giving them sanctuary and work hard to establish themselves. This has been the case in the UK for Muslim immigrants from Pakistan and other Islamic countries, but there seem to be real issues with subsequent generations born here, a minority of which seem to identify neither with the UK, nor with their ancestral home, and find meaning in radical Sunni ideology. There's also a worrying trend of Islamic faith schools and madrasas pushing Wahhabism due to Saudi influence going back to the 1950s. 

 

 

In summation, the shooter's background is pertinent here, just as it was for the perpetrators of the Boston bombings. If the shooter had been a member of the Westboro Baptist church with an abusive father, that too would've been very pertinent and would certainly be mentioned--he wouldn't just be considered a "US citizen" by the media.

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#33

Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:36 PM Edited by Uncle Vlad, 12 June 2016 - 03:37 PM.

The news in Germany said a few minutes ago that it was a U.S. citizen of Afghan descent. But I don´t know how well they´re informed. In the end it doesn´t matter where he came from or which religion he believed in, he was a inhuman and hateful person. At least he won´t be able to hurt more people from now on.

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#34

Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:45 PM

He was born in the US, according to a CNN article and the Israeli one linked above.

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#35

Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:45 PM

@MTD: As horrid as this attack was, it's part of the wider trend of "homegrown" extremists, usually second or third generation Muslim immigrants or native converts who go on to be radicalised (almost always the former case).

 

 

Right, and that's why the Trumpettes in this thread should just shut the f*ck up about immigration for once.

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#36

Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:51 PM

The f*ck is wrong with people man? Such a waste of human life, orchestrated by human garbage. Absolutely tragic. 

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#37

Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:53 PM

 

The U.S. needs to increase it's tolerance and increase it's immigration from Islamic countries. Only that will stop more of this. 

The shooter was a U.S. citizen.

 

Which is precisely my point...


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#38

Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:55 PM

The U.S. needs to increase it's tolerance and increase it's immigration from Islamic countries. Only that will stop more of this. 

I hope that's sarcasm!

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#39

Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:55 PM Edited by make total destroy, 12 June 2016 - 03:57 PM.


Which is precisely my point...

 

 

 

 

 

No, you don't have a point. You don't even care about the people that died, it's just another opportunity for you to harp on about immigration. Just take a deep breath and shut the f*ck up.

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#40

Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:59 PM Edited by Failure, 12 June 2016 - 04:01 PM.

Again, a U.S. citizen radicalized here in the U.S. Not an immigrant, not a refugee, a naturalized U.S. citizen.

 

 

 

Whose parents came from Afghanistan. It's perfectly natural to look at his background just as we all looked at Dylan Roof's background after his shooting spree.

 

His parents are doubtlessly people who just wanted to make a better lives for themselves in the US, and are no doubt horrified at their son's actions, but that doesn't mean that his faith wasn't a factor here. It's much easier to sell Salafism to someone who is already a Sunni Muslim. 


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#41

Posted 12 June 2016 - 04:03 PM

Maybe we should be examining the root causes of radicalization instead of just whining about immigrants?

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#42

Posted 12 June 2016 - 04:05 PM

Again, a U.S. citizen radicalized here in the U.S.


Kind of jumping to a conclusion there. Radicalized? You certain of that?
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#43

Posted 12 June 2016 - 04:06 PM Edited by Failure, 12 June 2016 - 04:40 PM.

Maybe we should be examining the root causes of radicalization instead of just whining about immigrants?

 
 
 
That's sort of what I was alluding to. My issue is that many on the left take issue with citing the strong correlation that Islam has with this, why people may be wary of Islam as a consequence and how to increase dialogue between Muslims and non-Muslims.



In the end, this was a horrendous, senseless loss of life.

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#44

Posted 12 June 2016 - 04:07 PM

People are already arguing. Just stop. People have died, and yes people die all the time but damn, show some respect. Stop f*cking fighting over supposed 'facts'.

You're all bitching at eachother for no damn reason. Beliefs or not, innocent people are dead. I don't understand why some of you use this to start bashing eachother. Give it a rest.

 

This thread will be locked by the end of the day, I guarantee it. Can no-one start a thread sending out thoughts to victims of a crime without people moaning about their own beliefs?

Jesus bloody Christ.

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#45

Posted 12 June 2016 - 04:07 PM Edited by The Yokel, 12 June 2016 - 04:13 PM.

Maybe we should be examining the root causes of radicalization instead of just whining about immigrants?

Or a root cause of mass shootings. This is just another mass shooting after all. Motives behind it don't really change that.

 

Some reports seem to suggest that the guy got angry after seeing two men kiss each other in front of his son. This could be motivated by homophobia. Wouldn't change a thing. "Sane" bigots don't do this. This was an act of a mentally disturb person.

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#46

Posted 12 June 2016 - 04:14 PM

Everybody desperately wants to be right about this...subject, if you can call it that. If you think it's an Islam problem, or a gun problem, stop arguing. Both sides of the argument are too far gone anyway.

RIP to the victims and I hope the wounded pull through.
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#47

Posted 12 June 2016 - 04:39 PM Edited by Crossed, 12 June 2016 - 04:41 PM.

He was a closet homosexual in denial. Just like all them anti gay ministers an dis guy:

 

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#48

Posted 12 June 2016 - 04:54 PM

It's a guy with a gun killing people. It's not some smoking gun you can use to paint billions of Muslims as evil, nor decry the existence of religion itself.

It's a mundane, boring, pedestrian crime which, in a few weeks, will be forgotten along with all the other nuts who decide to go and murder a few people.

 

Don't believe me? Well, tell me then, who was Colin Ireland? Do any of you remember him? Or maybe David Copeland?

Hardly anyone really does, and for good reason, because little men going on senseless killing sprees do not matter.

It's just a fool with a gun, as common a sight as woodlice under a rock.

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#49

Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:06 PM

that sucks how terrible. at least the people who died are in a much better place than we are. not that what happened was right at all. did they catch him? i wonder how long its gonna take before they start blaming video games.also i feel bad for any youtuber that posted a rampage in the nightclubs of gta 4. they are gonna get roasted forever. any way rip victims.


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#50

Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:14 PM Edited by SuzukiBlaze, 12 June 2016 - 05:16 PM.

Actually, if this thread is anything to go by, people are desperately hoping the attack was perpetrated by a Christian, no matter how unlikely this would be. Horrific attack regardless.

 
Going to have to disagree with you on both fronts there. If you read the various comment sections back to when the story first broke, people immediately jumped to muslim extremism when there really was nothing to go on, some other nut would've been just as likely, seeing the rate and complete randomness of mass shootings in the US. Regardless of motive, this is again absolutely tragic and sadly marks a new low.
This also Shows just how little of a s*it the government gives about mental health services and education, wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was someone with an mental health Issue(s) who as been left unchecked or could not stay medicated because of the eye watering costs of medications who did this, hell most of non ISIS related shootings (sandy hook and many others) were due to not just poor gun safety (I.E leaving guns in open easy to access places) but due to mental disorders and lack of medication and monitoring, and most school shootings can be tied to bullying. This however if it's not ISIS related can't really be explained well at the Moment, cause if it's not some mental disorder has to be at play, And surely there was clear warning signs this was going to happen, so that's another strike for the government for failing to act to prevent the attack from ever happening in the first place, again......
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#51

Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:45 PM Edited by 860, 12 June 2016 - 06:05 PM.

Gays Must Die Says Speaker At Orlando Mosque

 

htttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ

 

6 days ago. Not yet confirmed to be his mosque, but the timing and location can't be a coincidence.

 

Actually I read the video date wrong. 2 months ago. Could just as well be a coincidence. Orlando is a big place.


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#52

Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:49 PM

The Christian Right has introduced 200 anti-LGBT bills in the past 6 months and people are blaming Islam. 

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#53

Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:59 PM Edited by Failure, 12 June 2016 - 06:00 PM.

The Christian Right has introduced 200 anti-LGBT bills in the past 6 months 

 

What does this have to do with the mass shooting that took place?

 

 

The shooter himself should be blamed, as should the Salafi-Jihadi ideology he was inspired by. Nobody's blaming Islam wholesale. 


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#54

Posted 12 June 2016 - 06:03 PM

f*ck this world. f*ck it.

 

Don't make a tragedy into an excuse to push your poltical views don't people's throats.

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#55

Posted 12 June 2016 - 06:07 PM

 

The Christian Right has introduced 200 anti-LGBT bills in the past 6 months 

 

What does this have to do with the mass shooting that took place?

 

 

 

Given that the shooter targeted a gay bar, quite a lot. Right wing Christians have created an atmosphere of fear and hatred of everyone who is queer in this country. 


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#56

Posted 12 June 2016 - 06:08 PM

 

 

The Christian Right has introduced 200 anti-LGBT bills in the past 6 months 

 

What does this have to do with the mass shooting that took place?

 

 

 

Given that the shooter targeted a gay bar, quite a lot. Right wing Christians have created an atmosphere of fear and hatred of everyone who is queer in this country. 

 

I am a right wing Christian, and so are many of my friends. A majority of us don't have a problem with the gay community.

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#57

Posted 12 June 2016 - 06:13 PM

The Christian Right has introduced 200 anti-LGBT bills in the past 6 months and people are blaming Islam. 

Blaming religion of any kind is to entirely miss the point.

You should defend Christianity as much as Islam. But then, you are an Anarchist, are you not? I don't suppose Christians are appropriately oppressed for you to care about.

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#58

Posted 12 June 2016 - 06:22 PM Edited by ceszayers, 12 June 2016 - 06:24 PM.

Some of you are showing intense levels of hypocrisy. Just as Typhus has just pointed out, if you won't defend/support everyone equally then shut the f*ck up. No-one gives a f*ck about your issues with certain groups of people.

OP made this thread to express support for the victims and their families and you're all playing the blame game.

 

Half of it is - it's the muslims, those crazy bastards and the other half is - no it's them nutty right wing christians, it's their fault.

It's the fault of the c*nt who pulled the trigger.

 

I don't even like religion of any kind, I don't believe in it nor do I want to, but I don't intend to use loss of life to whine about how all religion should be banned. Why? Because that's f*cking selfish and ignorant.

 

Give it a f*cking rest. I can't even help myself from reading this because it's so shocking how selfish some of you are.

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#59

Posted 12 June 2016 - 06:23 PM

As a resident of Orlando myself, I can safely say I am OK. No idea on some friends, though, as they go to nightclubs and raves pretty much on a daily basis.

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#60

Posted 12 June 2016 - 06:24 PM Edited by Failure, 12 June 2016 - 06:43 PM.

Eris, but they generally don't call for people to actually kill gays in sermons. Even the most virulent such group (the Westboro Baptist Churh) doesn't go so far to commit acts of violence. I hate the group as, in addition to their homophobia, they are massively antisemitic and harass the families of fallen soldiers.

However, what you're doing is going out of your way to blame the Christian right for the actions of an Islamic extremist. I've defended moderate Muslims before, but you have to see an issue with the preacher in 860's video, who actually called for gays to be killed from a Shia mosque in Orlando.


I'm not calling for Islam to be demonised wholesale, I just want radical extremism to be recognised when it appears.

 

 

 

 

I actually think it's hypocritical for groups like National Action to condemn radical Islam with one hand and attack gays and minorities and support Nazi ideas with the other, but that doesn't mean radical Islam gets a pass. No extremist ideology should.

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