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Racist Protagonist?

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Official General
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#31

Posted 19 April 2016 - 12:08 PM Edited by Official General, 19 April 2016 - 12:09 PM.

I can't imagine how a racist protagonist would be beneficial in any way.

This.

I'm of the same view here. I just don't see really the point in it, it would be of no benefit to the gameplay in any way. A protagonist does not need to be racist to make its character more interesting, advanced etc. All its gonna do is lead to a huge amount of public outrage, criticism and backlash, and addition to that it would potentially alienate huge amount of the fanbase - Rockstar could risk ruining their great reputation permanently, and even prosecution.

At the end of the day, we're all just trying to have fun and play video games in an adult manner, not to get caught up controversy or political correctness buffoonery, just because it sounds or looks interesting a video game. It's easy for some people to forget that simple objective for gamers.
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#32

Posted 19 April 2016 - 12:11 PM

But GTA is built on a foundation of controversy. While I agree that it's not in anyway useful for gamers to be party to this, the game got where it is today by offending and outraging. 


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#33

Posted 19 April 2016 - 12:19 PM Edited by RedDagger, 19 April 2016 - 12:46 PM. merged

A depiction of racism is not necessarily "offensive." If it's a character study of discussion of racism in university, does that make it offensive? It's all about context. 
 
As mentioned above, if it's pertinent to the character and story isn't it relevant, instead of burying your head in the sand?
 
Doesn't it all depend on the context? Of course it's how a racist can be portrayed in the media. Why isn't it? If he's racist against my race do you think I should be automatically offended? This art and fiction. What if it's an intriguing story and I get see some real insight in to the human condition, where I can understand the racism?

I don't disagree with your opinion here, because technically and logically it makes generally makes sense. But in all honesty GTA shouldn't really have to include something like racism in a protagonist's character because the aim of the protagonist has always been about committing crimes or carrying out illegal activity for financial or material gain. GTA has never been about some extremist or militant fighting for some kind of political, ideological, or social cause - if it GTA was about that or somehow changed into such a thing then fine, you have a valid point. But we know that GTA is not about that, and probably will never be, it's always been about committing crime for money, maybe a personal revenge motive here and here, and nothing else - therefore it's pointless to even consider or entertain the idea of making the protagonist racist. There is no benefit, it's hardly relevant, and it serves no constructive purpose for a GTA game.
 
If you said this as an idea for a brand new, different game, then to me, yeah that would be fine, it would make sense. But in GTA's case ? No, it just does not make any sense.
 

But GTA is built on a foundation of controversy. While I agree that it's not in anyway useful for gamers to be party to this, the game got where it is today by offending and outraging.

I agree Fuzz, but with the kind of game GTA is, it's got it's thematic limits and boundaries. The protagonist is mostly driven by the business of crime for money, not controversial, heated stuff like racism. I like the fact that racism is expressed in NPCs because it makes things more realistic and interesting, but in the protagonist it's not necessary to outrage and offend to create more buzz around the game with a potential heavy price to pay too.
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#34

Posted 19 April 2016 - 12:33 PM Edited by Midnight Hitman, 19 April 2016 - 12:34 PM.

...Open your minds a bit. 

You gotta be kidding, someone drops the idea of a gay or female protag and you are either disgusted or against it, but in this topic you reply with these exact same words.


f*cking amazing...
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#35

Posted 19 April 2016 - 12:36 PM Edited by Fuzzknuckles, 19 April 2016 - 12:37 PM.

 

But GTA is built on a foundation of controversy. While I agree that it's not in anyway useful for gamers to be party to this, the game got where it is today by offending and outraging.

I agree Fuzz, but with the kind of game GTA is, it's got it's thematic limits and boundaries. The protagonist is mostly driven by the business of crime for money, not controversial, heated stuff like racism. I like the fact that racism is expressed in NPCs because it makes things more realistic and interesting, but in the protagonist it's not necessary to outrage and offend to create more buzz around the game with a potential heavy price to pay too.

 

I was quite surprised that Trevor wasn't a redneck racist idiot to be honest. I kind of thought that sort of negative aspect would have played quite squarely down the middle of his abortion of a characterisation. 

 

It's strange to think that a game like this would really shy away from racism, which it has kind of danced around in the past and had little elements of here and there, when it's quite happy to be so openly mysogynistic, homophobic, transphobic and generally unpleasant about the majority of non-racial minorities. In away, it almost seems like they're either really holding back on going full-balls-out racist, or saving it for the right time. A game that spends so much time poking fun at everything other than race... racism is almost conspicuous by its absence. Not that I want to play a game with a racist overtone or explicit message. It's just a real surprise that they haven't gone there yet. 

 

Ultimately, GTA's got a rich history of parodying American society, and all of those negative portrayals of women, transgender people and so on are bang on the money. Considering the very foundation the US is built on is one of racism and xenophobia (despite being a nation borne of immigrants themselves) it really does seem odd that there's not more heavy-handed social commentary on the disgusting racism perpetrated in the US on a daily basis. 

 

A protagonist might be going too far, if such a thing is possible in GTA, but I expect we'll see some sort of abhorrent, racist, sexist, homophobic turd of a politician in the next installment, especially if America is thick enough to actually elect Trump. 


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#36

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:06 PM

@ Fuzz

Racism in GTA has been touched on quite a lot actually. In VC there was deep ethnic rivalry between the Hatian and Cuban gangs, a lot of dialogue in this part of the story was borderline racism. In VC stories, the Trailer Park Mafia gang were a racist redneck crime group. In SA, there was a little racial tension between Blacks and Mexicans regarding Sweet's disapproval of Cesar and Kendl's relationship. In IV, there was the Outlaw MCs who were labelled as racist, the Mafia guys always made ethnic slurs to Niko, the head McCreary brother said "n*ggers" and he referred to the Mafia guys as wops and dagos. In TBOGT, the Mafia guys hurled racial slurs at Luis.
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#37

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:08 PM

Indeed, that's what I meant when I said they'd danced around the subject and had elements here and there. But there's never been a really big, explicit, in your face racist character or group that have really pushed the issue. 

 

Like the presence of children in the living breathing worlds of Rockstar, it may just be a step they're really not ready to make for so many reasons. 


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#38

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:14 PM

 

...Open your minds a bit. 

You gotta be kidding, someone drops the idea of a gay or female protag and you are either disgusted or against it, but in this topic you reply with these exact same words.


f*cking amazing...

 

It's logic pal. Compare the number of female and gay criminals with that of racist criminals...not even close. 

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#39

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:19 PM

It's logic pal. Compare the number of female and gay criminals with that of racist criminals...not even close. 

 

 

I don't see any numbers here to compare so I assume they're numbers you've pulled out of your arse for dramatic effect. 

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#40

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:23 PM

 

It's logic pal. Compare the number of female and gay criminals with that of racist criminals...not even close. 

 

 

I don't see any numbers here to compare so I assume they're numbers you've pulled out of your arse for dramatic effect. 

 

All you have to do is a little research....or did you want me to present the facts to you on a golden plate. This should be obvious people. 

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#41

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:26 PM Edited by Fuzzknuckles, 19 April 2016 - 01:28 PM.

 

 

It's logic pal. Compare the number of female and gay criminals with that of racist criminals...not even close. 

 

 

I don't see any numbers here to compare so I assume they're numbers you've pulled out of your arse for dramatic effect. 

 

All you have to do is a little research....or did you want me to present the facts to you on a golden plate. This should be obvious people. 

 

If you're going to quote this "research" you've done for our benefit, the least you could do is provide the numbers, rather than asking us to search for numbers which could, obviously, come from different sources to your own. 

 

I suppose your research findings also account for criminals that are gay but live a straight life, or purportedly straight criminals that take dick in prison but claim to not be gay? What's the margin of error for that sort of statistic? Do your sources include direct testimony from both straight and gay criminals?

 

Or are you just reaching at straws to push some pathetic rhetoric here? As you're someone that openly supports both Ted Cruz and Donald Drumpf, I'm going to assume you're just making sh*t up to sound INTERNETAWESOME™, like Trump does.

 

EDIT: Actually, yes, I want those "facts" on a golden platter. Put up or... shut up. 

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#42

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:31 PM Edited by Midnight Hitman, 19 April 2016 - 01:31 PM.

@ American Viking:That doesn't mean it would make an enjoyable or likeable character, why don't we have a stupid, brash and violent character too?
Seeing is such a common trait in criminals.

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#43

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:36 PM

 why don't we have a stupid, brash and violent character too?

 

Was Trevor not enough? Or Johnny K?


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#44

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:41 PM

 

 

 

It's logic pal. Compare the number of female and gay criminals with that of racist criminals...not even close. 

 

 

I don't see any numbers here to compare so I assume they're numbers you've pulled out of your arse for dramatic effect. 

 

All you have to do is a little research....or did you want me to present the facts to you on a golden plate. This should be obvious people. 

 

If you're going to quote this "research" you've done for our benefit, the least you could do is provide the numbers, rather than asking us to search for numbers which could, obviously, come from different sources to your own. 

 

I suppose your research findings also account for criminals that are gay but live a straight life, or purportedly straight criminals that take dick in prison but claim to not be gay? What's the margin of error for that sort of statistic? Do your sources include direct testimony from both straight and gay criminals?

 

Or are you just reaching at straws to push some pathetic rhetoric here? As you're someone that openly supports both Ted Cruz and Donald Drumpf, I'm going to assume you're just making sh*t up to sound INTERNETAWESOME™, like Trump does.

 

EDIT: Actually, yes, I want those "facts" on a golden platter. Put up or... shut up. 

 

Ah, I see what this is. I insulted your misplaced Liberal ideology with my opinion and now you are butthurt... and reaching at straws says the guy who brings Trump and Cruz into the discussion despite the fact they have no relation to the topic at hand. Even a pretentious user like you should know that being gay or female in a world of crime won't get you far. 


@ American Viking:That doesn't mean it would make an enjoyable or likeable character, why don't we have a stupid, brash and violent character too?
Seeing is such a common trait in criminals.

Dude, ALL of them are brash and violent...and you could make the argument that they're stupid too for choosing a life of crime. 

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#45

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:45 PM

@ American Viking:That doesn't mean it would make an enjoyable or likeable character, why don't we have a stupid, brash and violent character too?
Seeing is such a common trait in criminals.

Dude, ALL of them are brash and violent...and you could make the argument that they're stupid too for choosing a life of crime. 
I'd rather not play as someone stupid enough to be racist, no character in gta was this dumb.
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#46

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:52 PM Edited by Fuzzknuckles, 19 April 2016 - 01:54 PM.

 

 

Or are you just reaching at straws to push some pathetic rhetoric here? As you're someone that openly supports both Ted Cruz and Donald Drumpf, I'm going to assume you're just making sh*t up to sound INTERNETAWESOME™, like Trump does.

 

EDIT: Actually, yes, I want those "facts" on a golden platter. Put up or... shut up. 

 

Ah, I see what this is. I insulted your misplaced Liberal ideology with my opinion and now you are butthurt... and reaching at straws says the guy who brings Trump and Cruz into the discussion despite the fact they have no relation to the topic at hand. Even a pretentious user like you should know that being gay or female in a world of crime won't get you far. 

Actually I think they're entirely relevant here, as you appear to be pushing for a racist character in the game, which looking at your list of rather pathetic interests in your profile, seems like something that would appeal to you. 

 

So, first off, if we're looking at Serial Killers, many of the most "successful" have been gay, such as Dahmer, Manson, and many many more. Their "success" is a loosely used word here, but still, notorious criminals and killers that identified as either bisexual or gay. 

 

As far as gay "gangsters" goes, have a watch of the film Homeboys, a documentary on gay Latino gangmembers,  if that's not too objectionable to you on the basis of being white, right wing and "Christian" - I won't go too far into this, but anyone that supports racism and homophobia has no right to call themselves Christian. Even a confirmed Atheist such as myself knows that you're twisting the values of the Christ. 

 

Notorious London gangsters, the Kray twins, who ruled over all of London's East End were known for homosexual activities. But I'm sure such a learned master of research such as yourself already knew that. Right? Or does the ruling of a major world capital for over a decade not count as successful to you?

 

I'm guessing that female gang bosses such as Queenie St Clair, Rosetta Cutulo, Griselda Blanco and Gertrude Lythgoe also mean nothing to you? Because they're women, right? Despite the weight their names carried, the fear they inspired and the immense wealth they gained from crime - much like Trump, you probably assumed that, due to not having a penis, their "success" is meaningless. 

 

I mean, seriously, man. All you need to do is a little bit of research and you'll find that, just like everything else in the world, crime isn't something exclusive to the white men of the world, as much as people like you might want it to be. 

 

Has anyone seen my microphone? I appear to have dropped it. 

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#47

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:56 PM

Whatever next? A f*cking Neo-Nazi protag? A mission where you join the f*cking KKK?

These threads are going over the f*cking top now. f*cking hell. f*ck.
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#48

Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:59 PM

Why am I not at all surprised to see people whom vehemently argued against a female and/or gay protagonist, now pretty much salivate at the thought of a racist protagonist.

 

OT: In a more era-appropriate game like Red Dead I could see a degree of racist sentiment fit the story, like for example is displayed in The Hateful Eight. In a modern GTA set in a modern metropolitan area in the US however, I don't see how having an overtly racist protagonist be in any way shape or form conducive to a modern crime story, so no.

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#49

Posted 19 April 2016 - 03:07 PM

About the American History X example... No doubt a great movie, but I did not at all feel sympathetic to the protagonist in that movie, and I was happy when his piece of sh*t brother died.

That's not how I want to feel about a GTA protag.
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#50

Posted 19 April 2016 - 03:50 PM

 

 why don't we have a stupid, brash and violent character too?

 

Was Trevor not enough? Or Johnny K?

 

 

trevor yes, JOHNNY KLEBITZ NO.


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#51

Posted 19 April 2016 - 04:00 PM

Johnny was hardly a great intellect of our times. But that's besides the point. 


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#52

Posted 19 April 2016 - 04:07 PM

I wonder if the next thing someone on this forum suggests will be a pedophile protagonist.


I would also mention that this protagonist is a rapist, but R* has already done that.

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#53

Posted 19 April 2016 - 04:55 PM Edited by Majestic81, 19 April 2016 - 04:58 PM.

Racism is a bad quality. You never meet a smart racist. Because its pretty dumb. Its not really appealing anyway. Just because there are real criminals who are racist doesnt mean there should be one in GTA..

 

GTA protagonists usually have good traits deep down, and some measure of empathy. Even Trevor. Thats how you write a decent character/ story. The fans need to relate to it on some level or another.

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#54

Posted 19 April 2016 - 05:01 PM

Come on guys, open your minds to racism, a right-wing Christian is telling us to open our minds, we should definitely listen to someone who supports the narrow minded thoughts that spill like technicoloured vomit from a man that hates immigrants but is the son of an immigrant!

We should open our minds, guys, and be racist, because that's a really open-minded way to be!

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#55

Posted 19 April 2016 - 06:17 PM Edited by Tonguegirl, 19 April 2016 - 06:20 PM.

Would anyone mind the next protagonist being a racist? Just curious.

 

Morbid curiosity has gotten the better of me, plus my last post got deleted lol.

 

Would OP object to a Black Power gangster picking on white folks?


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#56

Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:02 PM

 

Would anyone mind the next protagonist being a racist? Just curious.

 

Morbid curiosity has gotten the better of me, plus my last post got deleted lol.

 

Would OP object to a Black Power gangster picking on white folks?

 

That rarely happens though and you know it.


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#57

Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:42 PM

Tony Soprano is pretty racist and The Sopranos is one of the most critically acclaimed and popular shows of all time. It can work if it's done right. Characters have flaws, it makes them appealing and interesting. Obviously it wouldn't work if he had a seething overt hatred and was dropping slurs every 5 seconds. But it could absolutely work if it was done in the right way. I'd rather have a character that was mildly racist than one that was a feminist who marches in gay pride parades and checks their white privilege. Because the other stuff wouldn't make for a believable criminal in the slightest. 

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#58

Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:48 PM

 

 

Would anyone mind the next protagonist being a racist? Just curious.

 

Morbid curiosity has gotten the better of me, plus my last post got deleted lol.

 

Would OP object to a Black Power gangster picking on white folks?

 

That rarely happens though and you know it.

 

 

So you're saying you would object to a Black protagonist who abused 'white' people? I think that's very telling. You seem to think that racism is the preserve of white people. It's not. Sounds pretty hypocritical; you're original post automatically assumes that the racist protagonist would be white, but I switch it on you and apparently racism rarely exists in the black community.

 

So you want a racist protagonist, as long as he's white?


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#59

Posted 19 April 2016 - 08:37 PM

I'm surprised considering most a lot of the characters were racist in this series that people would react this way.


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#60

Posted 19 April 2016 - 09:12 PM Edited by Gtaman_92, 19 April 2016 - 09:13 PM.

 

 

 

Would anyone mind the next protagonist being a racist? Just curious.

 

Morbid curiosity has gotten the better of me, plus my last post got deleted lol.

 

Would OP object to a Black Power gangster picking on white folks?

 

That rarely happens though and you know it.

 

 

So you're saying you would object to a Black protagonist who abused 'white' people? I think that's very telling. You seem to think that racism is the preserve of white people. It's not. Sounds pretty hypocritical; you're original post automatically assumes that the racist protagonist would be white, but I switch it on you and apparently racism rarely exists in the black community.

 

So you want a racist protagonist, as long as he's white?

 

Racism is wrong no matter who is doing it but we all know white people are known for that sh*t. I have never met a black person that was racist. I ONLY met whites that were.  

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