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Trevor & Johnny Discussion

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ChiroVette
  • ChiroVette

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#121

Posted 27 August 2017 - 11:48 PM

MuralDeciphered, I didn't quot your post, but everything you said was 100% spot on. That mission was a pivotal plot point in the story of V for all the reasons you delineated.

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Galehaut
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#122

Posted 28 August 2017 - 03:00 AM Edited by MuralDeciphered, 28 August 2017 - 03:10 AM.

More info about The Lost , from the best show in Los Santos :

 

The Lost - 3:55

 

 

If we believe the host Mr. Steve Haines himself , the Lost are heavy meth users. They also apparently introduced toilet cleaner ( bath salts ) in that region.

 

If their members also use that stuff themselves , i can see how their crew dwindled rapidly to nothing. Maybe Johnny wasn't only a meth user but also a toilet cleaner user ?

 

Ashley dies in an heroin OD not long after that after all , showing that she was addicted to several hard drugs for a long time already

 

'' Ashley's appearance changes significantly between games. During The Lost and Damned, her hair is black and her skin is noticeably more pale. Her eyes are also brown. In GTA V, her hair is red, and she looks much older, possibly due to her meth use. Her eyes have changed to be blue. She appears to have a tattoo reading "TLAD" near her left breast. ''

 

http://gta.wikia.com...i/Ashley_Butler

 

'' Sometime in 2013, Johnny confronted Trevor again for having sex with Ashley. Trevor, who has just found out about Michael De Santa's survival, finally snapped after Johnny's smack talking, and retaliated by beating him to death. Ashley, along with Ron Jakowski and Wade Hebert, watched in horror as Trevor repeatedly stomped the glass pieces on Johnny's head. He then left with Ron and Wade, leaving Ashley to mourn over Johnny's body. The rest of the Lost MC, including Terry Thorpe and Clay Simons, would soon be wiped out by Trevor as well.

 

 Should the player decide it, Ashley can be killed as well and dialogue between Trevor and Wade will acknowledge this during the ride over to the Lost compound. However, regardless of the player's decision, a Weazel News report and an internet news article will later reveal that Ashley died after participating in a heroin orgy in a Paleto Bay condo, along with four local males in their 50s and 80s. ''


CGFforLife
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#123

Posted 28 August 2017 - 12:24 PM Edited by CGFforLife, 17 September 2017 - 03:54 AM.

Removed for being sh*t

CGFforLife
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#124

Posted 17 September 2017 - 04:00 AM Edited by CGFforLife, 17 September 2017 - 02:26 PM.

Jeeesh... It's been nearly 4 years already and people still whine about Johnny's death? Get a move on

Here's something that might enlighten your day ;)
1w0njf.jpg
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D9fred95
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#125

Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:26 AM

Jeeesh... It's been nearly 4 years already and people still whine about Johnny's death? Get a move on
Here's something that might enlighten your day ;)1w0njf.jpg

I dunno if you're making a general statement about the Johnny situation or what, but the last post in the thread was by you from two weeks ago part of a convo pro-dead!Johnny, so you're not replying to anyone if that was what you were going for.

I mean Johnny was the favorite for some people or at least liked, of course they'd still be annoyed. I'm still annoyed it was Vic who died in VC since I liked him a lot in VCS but that's just how things are.
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CGFforLife
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#126

Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:35 AM

Spoiler

If I really want to be honest, is that my last post was actually stolen from some youtube comment somewhere lol. Tbh, I don't give any flying f*ck about Johnny's death

simonp92
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#127

Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:27 AM Edited by simonp92, 18 September 2017 - 11:38 AM.

Maybe this has already been mentioned but I've heard that the Housers never liked the idea of a Biker focused GTA and executive meddling is the only reason we got TLAD. I'm sort of inclined to believe that because you could see the retconning between GTA IV's story and TLAD's; in GTA IV, it's implied that The Lost are racists like the AOD and all of the members you see appear to be exclusively white. In TLAD some of the member's are vocally anti-racist and appear to be ethnically diverse, Jim Fitzgerald even magically changes from being a big, fat, bald, white dude to a mixed race individual, and it's constantly brought up that Johnny is in fact Jewish. To me it seems like the Lost were never intended to be protagonists but somewhere in development that changed and the retcons you see were done to make them more relate-able. I guess once GTA IV and it's episodes came and went and the Housers fulfilled their obligations, they wrote Johnny's brutal death as a "f*ck you" to whoever it was that made them make a biker GTA.

 

GTA IV and the expansions were planned as one story from the start though. There's mutiple hints towards The lost and gay tony in the news reports and police database in GTA IV. Furthermore the only implication that the Lost are racists, comes only from Playboy X, hardly a reputable source if you ask me. It is very possible he mixed up the lost and the AoD. Billy and Brian was extremely racist against the asian characters though. 

That being said there definitely was some retconning. I feel they wanted Johnny to be more likeable, and thus had to change a bunch of things around, they even changed his look, making his neck tatoo and bikermoustache less obvious. The same amount of retconning happend with TBOGT though, Luis looks very differently for one, so it's possible the story they wanted to tell simply had changed when they started development of the DLCs. 


gunziness
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#128

Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:04 PM Edited by gunziness, 18 September 2017 - 12:05 PM.

Memes aside, I think Trevor and Johnny could have had a decent friendship if it wasnt for everything in between. I mean they kind of shared the same moral code and a more than a few personality traits in some ways.

Shame really, they could have made a based duo in blaine county (even though I still think The Lost shouldnt have had any kind of business in SA).
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Edward Nashton
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#129

Posted 18 September 2017 - 01:50 PM Edited by Edward Nashton, 18 September 2017 - 02:50 PM.

GTA IV and the expansions were planned as one story from the start though. There's mutiple hints towards The lost and gay tony in the news reports and police database in GTA IV. Furthermore the only implication that the Lost are racists, comes only from Playboy X, hardly a reputable source if you ask me. It is very possible he mixed up the lost and the AoD. Billy and Brian was extremely racist against the asian characters though. 
That being said there definitely was some retconning. I feel they wanted Johnny to be more likeable, and thus had to change a bunch of things around, they even changed his look, making his neck tatoo and bikermoustache less obvious. The same amount of retconning happend with TBOGT though, Luis looks very differently for one, so it's possible the story they wanted to tell simply had changed when they started development of the DLCs.

I'm aware that the DLC's were planned in advance, if you're referring to rumors about one of the Housers not liking the Lost, that dispute supposedly happened during the conceptual phase of the episodes, it's mostly hearsay but Leslie made a vague reference to it in an interview - he also mentions work being done on the DLC after GTA IV was released, the retcons might have happened then, I posted a link to it on the previous page in response to someone else's post. I'd normally take a rumor like that with a grain of salt, but the glaring retcons done on the Lost make me wonder. The reason for the changes could have been some kind of compromise between disagreeing parties as well.

Spoiler

True, they did change Luis' look in TBOGT, but the reason for that was to make him appear more like the voice actor portraying him. The changes done on the Lost were way more dramatic and definitely had a clear purpose. Aside from the writers having creative differences, maybe R* just wanted to be edgy and have the player be a member of racist biker gang, but then chickened out at the last minute and made them PC friendly. Billy and Brian are hypocritical villains, making it ironic that they're racist like the A.O.D, so that's a given. That line Playboy X says about the Lost being racist was written by someone at R* - so it's in there for a reason. I mean, c'mon, the McReary men are all racist to varying degrees and they're portrayed as sympathetic characters, except Francis, it added to the realism but wasn't too gratuitous  - It's not really a stretch imagining R* portraying the Lost in a similar fashion.


gunziness
  • gunziness

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#130

Posted 18 September 2017 - 03:12 PM Edited by gunziness, 18 September 2017 - 03:12 PM.

^ Interesting read, I might quote this:

 

IGN: Can you give us a rough idea of the size of The Lost and Damned?
 
The Benz: There are roughly one-third the number of missions as there are in GTA IV, not including activities like races, side missions, multiplayer and the other surprises that you would expect from a Grand Theft Auto game. Although as a general rule, we try not to reduce our games to a list of weapons, missions or vehicles, simply because GTA is not just about the missions, but about the experience players have of their own free will within the world itself.

 

Not intentions of being too pessimistic, but times sure have changed isnt it? :(

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JOSEPH X
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#131

Posted 19 September 2017 - 02:50 AM

GTA IV and the expansions were planned as one story from the start though. There's mutiple hints towards The lost and gay tony in the news reports and police database in GTA IV. Furthermore the only implication that the Lost are racists, comes only from Playboy X, hardly a reputable source if you ask me. It is very possible he mixed up the lost and the AoD. Billy and Brian was extremely racist against the asian characters though. 
That being said there definitely was some retconning. I feel they wanted Johnny to be more likeable, and thus had to change a bunch of things around, they even changed his look, making his neck tatoo and bikermoustache less obvious. The same amount of retconning happend with TBOGT though, Luis looks very differently for one, so it's possible the story they wanted to tell simply had changed when they started development of the DLCs.

I'm aware that the DLC's were planned in advance, if you're referring to rumors about one of the Housers not liking the Lost, that dispute supposedly happened during the conceptual phase of the episodes, it's mostly hearsay but Leslie made a vague reference to it in an interview - he also mentions work being done on the DLC after GTA IV was released, the retcons might have happened then, I posted a link to it on the previous page in response to someone else's post. I'd normally take a rumor like that with a grain of salt, but the glaring retcons done on the Lost make me wonder. The reason for the changes could have been some kind of compromise between disagreeing parties as well.
Spoiler

True, they did change Luis' look in TBOGT, but the reason for that was to make him appear more like the voice actor portraying him. The changes done on the Lost were way more dramatic and definitely had a clear purpose. Aside from the writers having creative differences, maybe R* just wanted to be edgy and have the player be a member of racist biker gang, but then chickened out at the last minute and made them PC friendly. Billy and Brian are hypocritical villains, making it ironic that they're racist like the A.O.D, so that's a given. That line Playboy X says about the Lost being racist was written by someone at R* - so it's in there for a reason. I mean, c'mon, the McReary men are all racist to varying degrees and they're portrayed as sympathetic characters, except Francis, it added to the realism but wasn't too gratuitous  - It's not really a stretch imagining R* portraying the Lost in a similar fashion.

There is a unifying theme in the stories of the three protagonists in GTA IV that could be drawn from real life events and incorporated into the game at the conceptual phase. I'd love to put it all down in a post, but I don't want to risk getting banned and/or that post getting deleted. I also need to learn more - it's a loose theory.

Where that relates to Trevor and Johnny, I'll just say that Trevor being Canadian is a factor in TLAD themes during the making of GTA IV, and could be a clue left in by the Housers to their feelings towards the themes the execs (though I think it could have been more powerful people than the execs) wanted them to put in the game
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razorgames
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#132

Posted 19 September 2017 - 05:35 PM

i cant hate trevor or johnny, i do find myself laughing a lot at some of trevs lines in the game, but when my tbogt disk worked, i was thinking johnny was the 2nd funniest (brucie from gta 4 won first))


junkpile
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#133

Posted 23 September 2017 - 05:59 PM

Trevor gets no hate from me. Johnny's char got messed up imo.
He appeared to be somewhat badass in GTA IV but quite the opposite in TLAD.
Guess Rockstar realised it themselves and cut that loose end for good.
Terry and Clay were overkill though.
Trevor himself, despite killing the Lost, gets no hate...for what?

CGFforLife
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#134

Posted 26 September 2017 - 10:28 AM Edited by CGFforLife, 4 weeks ago.

Removed

CGFforLife
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#135

Posted 4 weeks ago Edited by CGFforLife, 4 weeks ago.

I don't see anything wrong about Johnny's death, he deserve it. Trevor introduction is probably the most greatest introduction ever. With it's full violence he can bring is probably the most mind blowing, the most memorable moment of any GTA game

But still, some hater who keep whining that "blah blah Johnny didn't deserve it, inconsistent writing blah blah". Just like highspeed stated in other thread: give credit where it due, Trevor is the epitome of GTA game!

Also, you know that Trevor is baddass when the whole Lost MC including Johnny turned pussy when confronting Trevor

And Johnny give us a moral: Don't f*ck with Trevor, or your head will be stomped, your brain will pop out, and your friends and club will be killed in no time

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#136

Posted 4 weeks ago

I notice you keep deleting your older posts just so you can bump this thread CGFforLife. Is there a reason you feel the need to keep doing this? It comes across quite odd.
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TheOneLibertonian
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#137

Posted 4 weeks ago Edited by TheOneLibertonian, 4 weeks ago.

I don't see anything wrong about Johnny's death, he deserve it. Trevor introduction is probably the most greatest introduction ever. With it's full violence he can bring is probably the most mind blowing, the most memorable moment of any GTA game

But still, some hater who keep whining that "blah blah Johnny didn't deserve it, inconsistent writing blah blah". Just like highspeed stated in other thread: give credit where it due, Trevor is the epitome of GTA game!

Also, you know that Trevor is baddass when the whole Lost MC including Johnny turned pussy when confronting Trevor

And Johnny give us a moral: Don't f*ck with Trevor, or your head will be stomped, your brain will pop out, and your friends and club will be killed in no time

I do not hate Trevor, I do dislike him and I think that he is wasted potential for a character. My feelings aside, I am fine with Johnny dying, but the way he was characterized and the way he died was treated with disrespect from the source material. In TLAD, Johnny was tough as nails and he wouldn't let anyone's sh*t get ahead of him. This is a guy that broke into a maximum security prison with a couple of his friends!

 

I just feel that you are just seeking attention by bringing pointless points and excessive fanboyism to elevate the discussion. 

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CGFforLife
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#138

Posted 4 weeks ago

I notice you keep deleting your older posts just so you can bump this thread CGFforLife. Is there a reason you feel the need to keep doing this? It comes across quite odd.

I know it's irrelevant but I really like calling Johnny death (kind of like ChiroVette lol)

 

 

I just feel that you are just seeking attention by bringing pointless points and excessive fanboyism to elevate the discussion.

sorry lol, but some IV fanboys has similar behaviour (not you), they keep bashing V, they whined the same thing. So I don't think I should be the spot on here


Algonquin Assassin
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#139

Posted 4 weeks ago

I dont see why this was brought up after its been dead for a few weeks. Unless we really want to sit through another pointless bickering fest.

Its time to die just like Trevor roasted oh so crispy.
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