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Trevor & Johnny Discussion

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Uncle Vlad
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#1

Posted 15 April 2016 - 08:56 AM Edited by Uncle Vlad, 15 April 2016 - 08:58 AM.

Don´t worry, although I´m a TLaD fan, this isn´t just another whining topic. Trevor gets so much hate, I´m just wondering if this would be less extreme if he didn´t kill Johnny Klebitz.

 

I mean, Trevor isn´t my all time favourite character, but I have to admit I had some fun playing as him. Not by going on endless rampages, but by doing things I couldn´t imagine doing as Michael or Franklin. Like driving like an asshole with a Liberator through Blaine County with Rebel Radio turned all the way up. Getting into drunken fist fights at Yellow Jack Inn. Doing random events throughout Blaine County. Flying planes. Driving around in my Duke O'Death, free-roaming and exploring the countryside (this can be really fun with him, it´s up to the player if he acts like a lunatic or fairly normal). And of course doing his missions. His mission strand before going to LS and his missions while being banned from the city were some of the best in the entire game. Gems like "Nervous Ron" or "Minor Turbulence" are no comparison to all this government crap later in the storyline.

 

In my opinion Trevor isn´t to blame for all the things that went wrong with V. So I´m wondering if so many people would still hate him with passion if he´d kill some random AOD boss and fight their gang instead of Johny and The Lost.

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Michael
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#2

Posted 15 April 2016 - 09:23 AM

If Trevor didn’t kill Johnny Klebitz, then Johnny would have put himself in an position that he would get himself killed. To be honest, after his appearance Johnny looked like an emotional trainwreck. His girlfriend was having sex with the creapest freak of all Sandy Shores and he didn’t look that healthy after moving out to Blaine County.

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#3

Posted 15 April 2016 - 09:53 AM

Then the Story would be much improved.

 

Simple.

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DCX
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#4

Posted 15 April 2016 - 01:02 PM

Johnny is my favorite character of the whole GTA series and I personally loved his death. He was skinny and weak and a shell of his former self. It was the perfect way to replace one badass character with another.

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CarlitoDorito
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#5

Posted 15 April 2016 - 01:05 PM

There's the wearing dresses, eating people, including dead bodies in the morgue!!! Killing his own brother, never washing, ever. His bullying of weak people, his rudeness to everyone in the street, his 'only hard life destroying drugs improve your life' way of thinking. Hypocrite. Loves murder. Meth dealer. All of that would be fine if Johnny was alive.
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THE DRAGOON
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#6

Posted 15 April 2016 - 01:55 PM

I haven't met a person who didn't like him.
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SmokesWithCigs
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#7

Posted 15 April 2016 - 02:27 PM

Kjohnny isn't dead he's a video game character . he respawned at the nearest hospital. This sthread needs to locked .I'm sure there are hundreds of thread like this that have already been made.
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shadowoperative
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#8

Posted 15 April 2016 - 05:06 PM

I don't get the hate. I am glad Trevor killed that loser.
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TheTechPoTaToCHIP
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#9

Posted 15 April 2016 - 05:08 PM

After seeing Steven Ogg on the Walking Dead, I kinda got a flashback to this scene. Due to spoilers, I won't talk about the show too much but one of the great things about this show is that any character can die anytime, even major ones. And the reason I got a flashback to Johnny K is because, he was a protagonist, we routed for him for 25+ missions. After all he's been through, we thought he was invincible. But Trevor killing him in a random fit of rage established something in GTA V that I've never felt in any other GTA before. Tension, not only for Trevor's unpredictable rage but the fact that if someone as big as Johnny could die so easily, plus the fact that we have 3 leads this time made me think that no one from the trio was safe. For the first time, it felt like there was an actual chance one of them might die. Instead of me just assuming the protagonist lives till the very end like in other GTA's. Even if the ways Michael or Trevor could die might be disappointing or not make sense for some people, it payed that initial tension off. If they just did the A and B endings a bit better, I would actually love Johnny's death more.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Johnny, I love him. Which made his death all the more shocking. But I'm not one of those fanboys who just dismisses Johnny's death and ignorantly proclaim it as sh*t because I like his character. No, I actually look beyond the event and look at the reasoning and what I found made me appreciate this part of the story even more. 

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Mr_Goldcard
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#10

Posted 16 April 2016 - 06:18 PM

I hope Trevor gets killed by the next GTA VI character just to show people he is an even bigger, meth addict, saltbath-eatin', off-road drivin, murdering maniac than Trevor ever was and then give a big f*ck you to all the Trevor fans
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Niobium
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#11

Posted 19 April 2016 - 03:40 AM Edited by Niobium, 19 April 2016 - 04:01 AM.

the story would be improved (assuming he didn't kill terry and clay either), but then you would still be forced to play as an annoying asshole who eats and rapes people while running around in his underwear and bullies people weaker than him while claiming that he's honest, and won't stop saying it's michael's fault.
 
trevor is the most overrated GTA protagonist ever. the only place where he gets the hate he deserves is here, on this forum.
 

Johnny is my favorite character of the whole GTA series and I personally loved his death. He was skinny and weak and a shell of his former self. It was the perfect way to replace one badass character with another.

 
Spoiler
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Crystal3lf
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#12

Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:07 AM Edited by Crystal3lf, 19 April 2016 - 07:07 AM.

Johnny's death is just Rockstar's way of saying "oops we made a sh*t protagonist, we'll make sure you never see him in another GTA again". If Trevor didn't kill him we wouldn't have seen him again anyway.

Bring the hate. TBoGT was 100x better.
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O.Z
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#13

Posted 19 April 2016 - 11:39 AM

I don't get the hate. I am glad Trevor killed that loser.


This.

End thread
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Dx2words
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#14

Posted 19 April 2016 - 05:29 PM

exactly, why the f*ck Rockstar wanted to make The LOST MC the bad biker club from GTAV why not the Angels of death?

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#15

Posted 19 April 2016 - 06:00 PM

exactly, why the f*ck Rockstar wanted to make The LOST MC the bad biker club from GTAV why not the Angels of death?

Because they were the protags enemies in every other HD era game as well.
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Pink Pineapple
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#16

Posted 19 April 2016 - 06:03 PM

Johnny's death is just Rockstar's way of saying "oops we made a sh*t protagonist, we'll make sure you never see him in another GTA again".

 

That doesn't make any sense. If they thought he was a "sh*t protagonist", they wouldn't have brought so much attention to him and had people talking about him for years.

 

They would have done what they did with Luis - nothing and let people forget he existed.

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Gunnalingus
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#17

Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:38 PM

I don't get the meaning of this post. Where does AOD come in? Angels of Death are the coolest GTA gang ever, period. 

 

I like Johnny though. He is the only IV protagonist with a  heart (contrary to what you'd expect from an outlaw biker) But I like Billy Grey more (a true outlaw) So what happened to Johnny in V was karma I guess, and strange was that Rockstar chose a year 2013 for his demise, 13 which symbolises motorcycles and marijuana for bikers. 

 

But f*ck it, I wish there was a way Billy and Johnny hadn't died, and Trevor was just a jackass, not a psycho just a dumbass.

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Tumppi90
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#18

Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:50 PM

Johnny would have killed Trevor.

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#19

Posted 19 April 2016 - 09:17 PM

Maybe, just maybe, Johnny would have been a good antagonist to Trevor's character.  Not only is Trevor stealing his business, he's porking his old lady.  Which would provide good incentive for Trevor to skip out and go to Los Santos, instead of Wade miraculously finding Michael through a phonebook(!).  Dealing with an angry biker gang, one you know what they are capable of from the previous game, instead of the forking Chinese.  Because that literally made no sense to me and just seems to be shoehorned in there at the last minute.  

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gunziness
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#20

Posted 19 April 2016 - 09:52 PM

Storywise wouldnt have changed much. Even if the Lost was replaced by the AOD (which would have made more sense).

 

I think it if the Lost trio appeared briefly in a cutscene as nothing but an easter egg it would have been cooler. For example getting on their bikes after stopping by the bar in the intro cutscene of  'crystal maze' or something along the lines..
 

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ChiroVette
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#21

Posted 20 April 2016 - 03:15 PM

Then the Story would be much improved.

 

Simple.

 

Just the opposite. The story would have suffered gravely from the lack-of-Johnny-head-squishing. Not only was that iconic scene one of the best moments in GTA V, it was one of the greatest moments in GTA history.

 

Brings a tear to my eye just thinking about it.

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DimitriFaustin
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#22

Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:16 PM

Johnny's death would have occurred later in the game, Rockstar chose instead to expedite it by including it in Trevor's re-introduction.

Rockstar can do whatever they want with their characters. I'd hate to be the person who comes across as a d**k, but one simple statement:

ROCKSTAR'S GAME - ROCKSTAR'S RULES.

Johnny's game was called "The Lost and D*mned", not "The Lost and Magic Unicorns and Rainbows." Rockstar killed off Johnny to show that there are no happy endings in GTA, just like how Vic Vance died.

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#23

Posted 22 April 2016 - 05:41 AM

Johnny's death is just Rockstar's way of saying "oops we're bad at writing".

 

Fixed that for you.

 

Seriously though, Johnny being in San Andreas, hooked on meth, and back with Ashley makes absolutely no sense. Anyone who has played through TLaD knows that.

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#24

Posted 22 April 2016 - 06:12 AM

They probably added him in to make a pretty small but at the same time huge connection back to GTA IV and its players. Nobody expected it and it caused an uproar, most likely what Rockstar wanted to achieve with that scene. People have to realize that times and people change, he just wasn't the tough guy he was in GTA IV anymore. There's people that are more psychotic and stronger than GTA's previous main protagonists. Trevor was one of them. We might see these types of characters again.

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thafablifee46
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#25

Posted 22 April 2016 - 08:04 AM

Johnny in gta v makes litte sense. Those of us who played tlad knows how his story was supposed to end. He finally grows a pair and leaves ashley and the meth alone. It makes as much sense as niko in san andreas looking for/hunting down another person from his old life.
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#26

Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:06 AM Edited by Mokrie Dela, 22 April 2016 - 10:07 AM.

Talking as a writer, I didn't feel that scene was necessary at all. It was an easy way of telling the player that Trevor's 'tough' or 'crazy'
The whole game your literally told he's crazy, by Michael, Dave etc

But you're never really shown why or really how. It's a cheap shock tactic, and had little narrative merit. The same affect could be achieved by creating a character and building them both up, over several missions, then culminating in a stand off where the player themselves kills a tough enemy. That'd be stronger character development

Johnny and the lost in general have little reason to be in the game in my eyes
The AOD should be instead.

Is much rather a well thought out story involving Trevor working WITH the smaller lost, fighting the aztekas and AOD to get his drug network set up. There could be more entertaining tensions than with Michael (which got old after 2 missions). Trevor could still be portrayed as a crazy tough guy, but without the cop-out 'kill a tough character' shortcut, which combines with his treatment of Ron wade and especially Flloyd and whateverhernamewas, made him entirely unlovable for me, un-relatable. He became a character I tried to avoid instead of the one I wanted (of the tree he excited me as much as Michael in the trailers and I thought he'd be a favourite).

I think it's a problem inherent to the shorter story; rockstar did not leave themselves enough room to manoeuvre so they had to resort to cheap methods to convey a point which would be stronger if they wrote it better

That's my opinion, of course, as a writer.

As a gamer, it pissed me off. Niko and Johnny were my favourite protags, so instantly rockstar out gta v on the wrong foot.

Edit I'm not even going to go into the myriad of character inconsistencies of johns in gta v
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#27

Posted 22 April 2016 - 04:24 PM

I'm the only one who is glad that skinny P*ssy died?

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#28

Posted 22 April 2016 - 04:46 PM

Johnny's death would have occurred later in the game, Rockstar chose instead to expedite it by including it in Trevor's re-introduction.

Rockstar can do whatever they want with their characters. I'd hate to be the person who comes across as a d**k, but one simple statement:

ROCKSTAR'S GAME - ROCKSTAR'S RULES.

Johnny's game was called "The Lost and D*mned", not "The Lost and Magic Unicorns and Rainbows." Rockstar killed off Johnny to show that there are no happy endings in GTA, just like how Vic Vance died.

 

ok first of all they only killed him off because it was the easiest way of making trevor look like a "badass."

 

second of all i don't care why they did it, and i don't care that they can do whatever they want. it doesn't mean anything when the story is still sh*tty.

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#29

Posted 22 April 2016 - 05:32 PM Edited by B Dawg, 22 April 2016 - 06:31 PM.

Johnny's death is just Rockstar's way of saying "oops we made a sh*t protagonist, we'll make sure you never see him in another GTA again". If Trevor didn't kill him we wouldn't have seen him again anyway.

Bring the hate. TBoGT was 100x better.

I've got a message for you from Lemmy and Alice Cooper.
It says: YOU CAN GO TO HELL!
 


 
 

 

exactly, why the f*ck Rockstar wanted to make The LOST MC the bad biker club from GTAV why not the Angels of death?

Because they were the protags enemies in every other HD era game as well.

 

2 missions for Niko and 1 for Luis, only because it interefered with their business and Faustin's/Ray's.
Hardly 'enemies' if you ask me.
Niko's enemies were Russians.
Luis's enemies were Rocco and whatever mob Tony owed sh*t to.

Johnny's game was called "The Lost and D*mned", not "The Lost and Magic Unicorns and Rainbows." Rockstar killed off Johnny to show that there are no happy endings in GTA, just like how Vic Vance died.

Except The Damned part already happened in it's own game, yet Mikey and Trevor get to live on happily ever after with Magic Unicorns and Rainbows.

And Vic Vance didn't die a completely sh*tty, unlikely death.

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#30

Posted 23 April 2016 - 12:14 AM

 

Johnny's death would have occurred later in the game, Rockstar chose instead to expedite it by including it in Trevor's re-introduction.

Rockstar can do whatever they want with their characters. I'd hate to be the person who comes across as a d**k, but one simple statement:

ROCKSTAR'S GAME - ROCKSTAR'S RULES.

Johnny's game was called "The Lost and D*mned", not "The Lost and Magic Unicorns and Rainbows." Rockstar killed off Johnny to show that there are no happy endings in GTA, just like how Vic Vance died.

 

ok first of all they only killed him off because it was the easiest way of making trevor look like a "badass."

 

second of all i don't care why they did it, and i don't care that they can do whatever they want. it doesn't mean anything when the story is still sh*tty.

 

 


 

 

exactly, why the f*ck Rockstar wanted to make The LOST MC the bad biker club from GTAV why not the Angels of death?

Because they were the protags enemies in every other HD era game as well.

 

2 missions for Niko and 1 for Luis, only because it interefered with their business and Faustin's/Ray's.
Hardly 'enemies' if you ask me.
Niko's enemies were Russians.
Luis's enemies were Rocco and whatever mob Tony owed sh*t to.

Johnny's game was called "The Lost and D*mned", not "The Lost and Magic Unicorns and Rainbows." Rockstar killed off Johnny to show that there are no happy endings in GTA, just like how Vic Vance died.

Except The Damned part already happened in it's own game, yet Mikey and Trevor get to live on happily ever after with Magic Unicorns and Rainbows.

And Vic Vance didn't die a completely sh*tty, unlikely death.

 

 

Our thoughts about what constitutes a good story and what does not are probably vastly different. In that case, Niobium and B Dawg, I must respectfully agree to disagree.

However, the first thought that came to my head at how Trevor killed Johnny reminded me of, say, what could happen in a really bad bar fight for example. People tend to do really bats**t crazy stuff when heavily

intoxicated, and Trevor did happen to have a beer bottle in hand which he used as a tool to murder Johnny. Given Trevor's character, he may have been heavily intoxicated at the time, and alcohol combined with an

extremely short temper usually leads to very disastrous results. And no, since the player gets to choose what Franklin does with Michael and Trevor, there is nothing confirmed about what will happen to Michael and Trevor

after the events of GTA V. And come on, GTA V is not that unrealistic.

I think that people who expect happy storybook endings in Grand Theft Auto are honestly looking at the wrong realm of fiction. People get murdered, robbed and betrayed in these games, and there is absolutely nothing happy

about that. 

But again, I will agree to disagree with your opinions. If my first post in this topic caused offense or outrage with you, my apologies.

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