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AlienTwo
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#211

Posted 4 weeks ago Edited by AlienTwo, 4 weeks ago.

f873563a71a85c0a775e6f3175ac6e0c--star-t

 

"Whose spaceship is this?"
"It's a Bird of Prey, baby."
"Whose Bird of Prey is this?"
"It's Kruge's."
"Who's Kruge?"
"Kruge's dead, baby! Kruge's dead."

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AlienTwo
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#212

Posted A week ago

7a03280f-4654-4abe-a0ba-83849e9d728d_zps

 

 

It's BAAAACK!  And my god, it is excellent.  Pretty rough stuff included, but really good.

 

Additionally, now you can get Discovery on Amazon, so this helps widen the audience.  It's only the $9.99 commercial free version, and I don't think you can link your old account, you need to quit and re-subscribe.  

http://variety.com/2...nel-1202654346/

 

 

Spoiler episode discussion, including pics from "Coming up On Discovery:"

 

Spoiler
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Commander S
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#213

Posted A week ago

Immediate frustrating thought about...

 

Spoiler

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AlienTwo
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#214

Posted A week ago

Yeah, I've had this explanation given to me, but for my own personal and selfish reasons, seeing this new design really helps me relax a touch with all the minor differences(if I think of it as a visual reboot)... not that they were killing me, but it's just easier to roll with the changes this way.

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Commander S
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#215

Posted A week ago

Yeah, I've had this explanation given to me, but for my own personal and selfish reasons, seeing this new design really helps me relax a touch with all the minor differences(if I think of it as a visual reboot)... not that they were killing me, but it's just easier to roll with the changes this way.


I did the same thing with the 2009 movie - if you treat the 'Kelvin timeline', plus 'Old Spock' as ...not being anything to do with the original show, TNG, etc., it all becomes a lot more visually consistent. Doesn't salvage the fact that Orci and Kurtzman can't plot a movie to save their lives, but...

 

(timely reminded that they're the folks wot wrote the first two Transformers movies, with many of the same problems being present in those, too)

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Commander S
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#216

Posted A week ago Edited by Commander S, A week ago.

...right - vague, no-plot-details-revealed thoughts:
 

- the Knights of the Old Republic bit is a better way of handling that particular plot thread than what I thought they'd do - and there's a specific bit that's even shot like the same kind of moment in KotOR.

 

- the direction in general is some of the best I've seen so far - so no surprise that it's 'Two Takes' in the chair for this one. ;) Although I could do without the 'camera circles round everyone while they do the exposition dump' moments - shouldn't really be getting motion sickness from a 'talking heads' scene... :barf:

 

- they did that old Trek saw of 'make a sci-fi version of a colloquialism by adding/swapping a word, but keeping everything else the same' - I was thinking about how much that bugs me the other day, and this sure didn't disappoint! :p But again, Trek has always been terrible for that, so at least it's consistent...

 

- the first bit with Culber and Lorca at the beginning just wound me up - once again, I wish someone would remember things like 'filing an official complaint' or similar log entries. That's actually a big complaint I have about Lorca, come to think of it - he's not so much militaristic as a gun-happy loose cannon. If anything someone who was more of an out-and-out soldier might be more 'by the book' about certain things, not less. But in general, I still find the lack of naval (or just professional!) discipline really jarring with this show...

 

- the plotting and pacing is still iffy, IMO - I'll pause the episode after 10 minutes, and ...oh, wait, I'm half-way through. Compare that to The Orville, which (aside from anything other points of comparison) tends to stick to the 5-part structure of the average older Trek episode - I'll think the episode's almost done, look at the time left, and ...huh, another 15 minutes? Guess there's an extended coda - or a plot twist! - coming up. As it is, Discovery flits between scenes relating to each of the many dangling threads, and so on a per-episode basis, it all ends up feeling a bit insubstantial.

- ...okay, so the 'Han Solo manoeuvre' was genuinely funny - in a 'Trials and Tribble-ations' kind of way, even. ;)

 

- I have a horrible feeling there's another 'everything you know about _____ is wrong' thing coming up - although it would explain one thing, I guess...


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#217

Posted A week ago

p much:




If they did do the reveal like Mike talked about that would be cool.

Though I think this show is in a weird place with whatever QT is doing and the likelihood that the Abrams universe has pretty much ended. And when you guys talk about not connecting visually with any of the previous shows/movies...im not sure where this particular show will go in the future. Kinda like a red-headed stepchild this show is. So unless they have some crazy reveal planned that undercuts everything before it's best to not even think of this as a traditional Star Trek show. At least that's my opinion, feel free to disagree.

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#218

Posted A week ago

I guess in one sense the "traditional Trek show" was one of the 90's ones, "Classic" being the 60's, this this new "post-modern" or whatever would fit the bill.  

 

From what I hear, the QT film would be in the Kelvin-verse, although possibly a different incarnation of it...


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#219

Posted A week ago

I still reckon there's been a massive missed opportunity for a kind of 'Next Next Generation', where it's the more textbook Trek show - episodic, conceptual framing for each episode, but with a fresh coat of paint.

 

That, and I reckon there's a lot of stuff that even the Abrams movies assumed people either know or care about when it comes to Trek, and ...I think we need the 'my first Star Trek' show, aimed at people like my kid relatives, who've never seen an episode in their lives, and don't automatically know "beam me up", "warp drive", etc. Not a 'children's show', mind - just a Star Trek that isn't a massive reinvention, deconstruction, 'fresh new take' or anything, and that functions as an entirely stand-alone show, rather than the latest installment in half a century of film and television.

 

(come to think of it, the only show aside from the original that fits that description is TNG - largely because Gene treated TNG like a do-over as much as a successor show...)


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#220

Posted A week ago Edited by Spaghetti Cat, A week ago.

Again I don't mind Trek heading in a dark or even a serialized version. I think the RLV video makes some great points about Orville and how much of that is cut-and-paste storytelling. Not everything has to be PG rated and fit in the box just so. What I'd argue is that is has to be good and make sense. I have only watched the non-Pilot Pilot on CBS, thats my only vantage point, but what I saw made no sense at all for a Trek show.


Imagine, if you will, something like the look of a Mad Mad as your reference point for a new Trek. Keep all of that 60's look with the costumes, dials, and gauges, etc. but update it with better CGI and more modern storytelling. Keep half of the fanbase happy with the look being 10 years before ToS, but have a Game of Thrones/Breaking Bad type storytelling for the new comers.

This show however is trying to do too many things at once and not succeeding very well. For a Trek show named Discovery it should be about...i don't know...Discovery! New worlds, new civilizations, and all that jazz. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is more about the Klingon war. There were some good ToS episodes with the Klingons, but the best ones were about the wonder of space. THAT'S what Trek needs to get back to.

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#221

Posted A week ago

 I have only watched the non-Pilot Pilot on CBS, thats my only vantage point, but what I saw made no sense at all for a Trek show.

You watched less than 5% of the episodes that have been aired so far, I'd highly suggest trying the remainder. Just at least so you know for sure... hell, wait until the last episode (4 weeks from Sunday) and do the 1 week free trial so you can watch it for free.


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#222

Posted A week ago Edited by Spaghetti Cat, A week ago.

I don't disagree with what your saying A2, it would be like basing an opinion of TNG solely based on Encounter at Farpoint. Heck TNG didn't really get going till the second season.


I'm just saying, based on that one episode, that CBS really screwed the pooch right out the gate. They put launching a streaming service and assumed Trek fans would just show up to make it a success put before making a good Trek series. Now I don't have a problem with making a TV series work based on the economics at play (I was sorely dismayed at the lack of product placement in the 23rd/24th Century). But this was putting the cart before the horse with the streaming service. Why, for example, not put this on CBS or even Showtime? If CBS still wanted to sell a streaming service have the show air a couple days earlier than when it would come on regular TV, if the true fans wanted their Trek before the regular Joe...boom there you go.

I just don't see the need for a CBS streaming service right now. Besides Discovery, is there any other shows you watch on there?
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#223

Posted A week ago

Nothing.  I will NEVER say I agree with the streaming platform, which is sub par.

 

Buuuuuuuut, there's good news, Amazon now has CBS All Access.  So you can watch it through there, same fee (additional to Prime) but it's better than the CBS app.

 

I'd even be willing to help a trekkie out in terms of watching the show.

 

PM me for information.


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#224

Posted A week ago Edited by Commander S, A week ago.

Stupid Discovery thought, but you can blame this partly on me reminiscing about original BSG and Quantum Leap lately:

...what if there's a last effort to use the spore drive and get home (using a mix of the spore drive and data from the Defiant), but like with the jump that got them into the Mirror Universe in the first place, it doesn't quite go as planned - ?

 

Cue another 'this is both where we're supposed to be, and yet ...not, somehow' moment, and an incoming ship. It's apparently a Federation ship, but the ID doesn't match - nothing about this universe does, in fact. Once again, Discovery has jumped into another parallel reality, instead of back home - but where are they this time?
 

Spoiler

 

:pp
 

(yeah, no - that's almost definitely not happening, and like with things like These Are The Voyages, sacrificing the final moments of one series in order to indulge in fan-w*** for another series that many viewers won't have watched is Bad Screenwriting 101, right there...)

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#225

Posted A week ago

I dunno man, I've been thinking this might become a "Starship: Sliders" type show and I'm ok with it. Honestly.

Commander... what is the "fan-w***"? I can't for the life of me figure it out. For the record, I thought These Are The Voyages is a salvageable episode if they take out Trip's death (13 year old spoiler warning) and the whole Riker/Troi parts.

But as/is that episode is too painful on too many levels.

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#226

Posted A week ago

In a way, TATV is worse than fan-w***: it's two out-of-touch showrunners' idea of what they think is 'good fanservice' - literally described as a "valentine to Star Trek fans". :dontgetit:

 

That's a bad idea to begin with (like every attempt at trying to recreate TWoK, because 'it's a fan-favourite'), but then B&B ended up taking the characters and more-or-less reverting their personalities almost back to Season 1 levels, because most of the growth over later seasons had been handled by other people.

 

But yeah, beyond all that, beyond the whole episode being rendered pointless by it being a holodeck simulation (making it barely more true to the real NX-01 crew than L.A. Noire is as a slice of actual history...), the most damning part, and probably the final word on why the B&B era was doomed to fizzle out like it did, was the decision to round out the entire show (and most likely that entire 18-year production run, starting with TNG) with ...a framing device that only worked if you were familiar with the events of The Pegasus.

 

:bored:

...and the problem with that is less the fundamental flaw of 'is the average Enterprise viewer really going to know/care about some arbitrary TNG episode from 11 years ago?', and more the implicit assumption from B&B that the ENT audience really was made up of folks who'd been watching since TNG, picked up with Voyager as soon as one show ended and the other began, and then the same again with Enterprise. It's boneheaded from either angle - because if you're assuming that your audience is the same one from two shows and over ten years ago, then you're also dismissing the idea that maybe some of ENT's viewers were folks who started watching Trek with Enterprise. Nope - and that's why 'one of the most important milestones for the main characters of the show' is treated as less important than 'that guy from another show comes in to learn an valuable lesson about stuff'.


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#227

Posted A week ago

But you never define Fan-w***.
I don't know what this is. Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope.

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#228

Posted A week ago

But you never define Fan-w***.
I don't know what this is. Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope.


Oh, right - thought you meant 'what specific example of fan-w***ery are you getting at with TATV?', not 'what is fan-w*** when it's at home?'. :pp

 

See, I like to keep my forum posts tidy, even if GTAForums auto-correct doesn't deem those words sufficiently crude to warrant kicking in - 'w***' in this instance rhymes with 'Rhino tank'. ;)

 

And going back to the 'Discovery ends by them jumping into a parallel universe, except ...it's the original Trek universe - see, no continuity errors, they were in a different timeline to begin with!' idea, that's 'fan-w***', because it's basically like fan-fiction, but in a ...self-gratifying way. Nods and winks are perfectly fine, skilfully playing with the entire canon is great - but just swapping 'good plotting' with 'That Thing You Recognise From The Other Thing™', either so that the writers can give themselves a high-five for their superior geek cred, or because they think that name-checking fan-favourite stuff is all you need to do to win the approval of said fans? Haha - sorry, but no dice...

 

(ultimate example I can think of, that's both for the gratification of the writer, and to mine Nerd Culture Respect Points from readers: Ready Player One... :sui:)

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#229

Posted 6 days ago

I love you, man,but it's even more simplistic than that. I don't know what letters you're blocking out, at think point I fully understand the concept, just not the word. ;-)
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#230

Posted 6 days ago Edited by Commander S, 6 days ago.

...wait, really? W***, rhymes with 'Sherman tank', adj., slang (mainly from the UK) for jacking off - never come across that:blink:

 

Clearly haven't spent much time winding up random British NPCs in GTA V, then... ;)

 

 

Back on-topic, and tangentially related to griping about B&B's handling of Enterprise, I've only just found out about longtime Trek author Diane Carey, and her taking out her frustrations with the show in the novelisations:

DTe0H-GWkAAqCDl.jpg

 

 

:lol:

 

(...I really need to get myself a copy of that book...)

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#231

Posted 6 days ago

Ha. Thank you, that is obviously the first time I've ever heard that phrase.




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