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Anarchy, Socialism, Communism, and community gardens

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make total destroy
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#571

Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:45 PM

You can have solidarity with trans women but not with random men who claim to be women? He is not a trans woman, he is an ordinary, gender conforming man. If you say this obvious dude is a woman then you are somewhat legitimising him. 

You're framing the entire incident as 'women vs. men in drag', though. You talked about 'deadnaming' the person responsible. You implied it was a trans* woman that was responsible for this, so I'm just going off what you've said about the incident. I only briefly skimmed the article, but what I gathered from it is that misguided activists--activism is generally misguided anyway, and largely a waste of time--trashed a women's space. That's a sh*tty, f*cked up thing to do, but it's representative only of those that participated, and no one else. There is no need to draw a line in the sand, there is no need to prop up these 'either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists'-esque dichotomies. It's all nonsense.

 

Can we talk about something else? Anything else?

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El Diablo
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#572

Posted 19 February 2017 - 09:20 PM Edited by El Diablo, 19 February 2017 - 10:17 PM.

Can we talk about something else? Anything else?

well, I tried to shift the conversation towards the issue of vacant housing and rampant homelessness.

which easily applies to both the UK and the US in terms of private property exploitation.

 

 

there's also these hardcore rebels who gave themselves AIDS in order to receive better welfare from the state than they were otherwise entitled to as "just" homeless people...

 

 

so that's pretty fascinating.

if you guys want to keep on this TERF/Feminism/Transgender argument so be it but it's going off topic at this point.

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Triple Vacuum Seal
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#573

Posted 20 February 2017 - 12:24 AM Edited by Triple Vacuum Seal, 20 February 2017 - 12:24 AM.

there's also these hardcore rebels who gave themselves AIDS

 

God I hope not. HIV is bad enough. :monocle:

 

 

But on the topic of homelessness, it's partly a visibility issue.  The panhandling stereotype minimizes the perceived scope of the problem.  Just because relatively few folks are begging on the streets (but tons in my city), the problem is seen as not affecting very many.  In reality, there are many families just one paycheck or accident away from being in a shelter.  Even at that point, their homelessness wouldn't be visible.  Imprisonment hides the problem too.


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#574

Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:28 AM Edited by Mister Pink, 05 April 2017 - 12:28 AM.

Ah, Los Frikis. 

 

There's a good Radiolab episode about those. You should give it a listen. 

 

http://www.radiolab....ory/los-frikis/


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#575

Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:11 AM

Homelessness is not a visibility problem. In London in the west end, one of the main theatres (don't know the one I am an uncultured oaf) is playing Harry Potter and the Cash Cow, a few months ago I walked past it in the morning and there were hundreds of tourists taking pictures of the wonderfully expensive sign hanging from the theatre and underneath was a homeless guy sleeping on the stairs with a mattress and blanket. I can guarantee that guy was cropped out of most of the tourist pictures. Camden is filled with the homeless after they were all shunted out of Euston and King's Cross a few years ago. People want it to be an invisible problem.

 

There are more abandoned buildings in London alone than there are homeless people in England. sh*t, ten of the luxurious empty buildings dotted around central London could house them all comfortably. I know that for people on the streets the issue is more than just finding somewhere safe to sleep, but it's a f*cking start. 

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#576

Posted 06 April 2017 - 05:45 PM Edited by Mister Pink, 06 April 2017 - 05:57 PM.

I know that seems like the logical thing to do, empty spaces, fill them. There's just so many other things to consider and hurdles to jump in order for such a thing to happen. It's not so black and white as people like to believe. 

 

Those abandoned buildings, do they pass fire-safety regulations? Are they insured if someone has an accident in them? If they're government-seized buildings and they're waiting to be demolished or re-sold, is the state going to get sued if someone has an accident on that property. How do we keep the places drugs and alcohol free? Is their ample separate toilet facilities and plumbing required for males and females? Is there a curfew in place? Is there 24hr security and staff to maintain that the premises is not being misused for drinking, drugs or prostitution? Who is footing the bill for all this? 

 

Also, It's not like all the abandoned buildings are owned by one person or organization. It's many different people and organizations with many different priorities with many other of their own issues, legal battles, disputes, business, family matters etc. It's just a lot more complex that it just being an empty space and offering it up. And it's more complex because we made it like that to protect the majority of us, such as having to have a premises insured in case someone has an accident on the property.

 

This isn't an argument against offering up available spaces for homeless. It frustrates me to see wasted space and people in need. I've spent a few nights sleeping rough on the streets myself and I've worked with homeless people. I understand how hard it is, albeit for only for a few nights but I understand the loneliness, feelings of despair, hunger, not knowing where the next meal is coming from, drug abuse etc. I just wanted to offer some food for thought on the other side of the coin. 

 

And I'm not going to be popular saying this but not all homeless are innocent victims either. Anecdotal, but a huge percentage of homeless people I met were criminals, in and out the prison system for drug offences, violence towards their partners, burglary and so forth. There are some that wont help themselves. Not to say they shouldn't be helped to try rehabilitate but it adds to concerns about some homeless. Some people end up homeless and fall through the cracks in our society and it's unfortunate, others make repeated bad choices in their lives over and over.

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#577

Posted 07 April 2017 - 01:15 AM

Well, when you are a homeless person with no-one and nothing left, you don't have any chance to help yourself though. It's like "they should just get a job", right, but who will offer a job to someone who hasn't got a haircut, hasn't shaved, hasn't bathed, hasn't dressed in decent clothes in days/weeks/months/years? It's not as simply as "they won't help themselves". 

sh*t, imagine they have to send a resume. How will they write one? What if it has to be online? How will they get access to it? It's easy for us to solve those issues because we have the interwebs and all, and we can easily find the solutions we need. Plus we also smell and dress reasonably well.

 

Your concerns about the buildings and living conditions are fair. But as an emergency measure, they can work even without those regulations. When there are disasters, regulations go out the window to help the families affected. I'm sure the local auditorium wasn't made with the intention of having hundreds of people living there for an indeterminate amount of time. But they do. Similar with abandoned buildings, find out the minimum requirements for living (which probably aren't that big), and create the standards. Get volunteers to help out ensure everything is ok and presto. Isn't that how soup kitchens and shelters work? 

 

As for who foots the bill; society does. Take a portion of tax money out of the military, and apply it to managing these things, actually giving these people a second chance. The benefits will eventually outweigh the costs as some of those homeless become active and productive members of society™ and start paying taxes from their living. 


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#578

Posted 07 April 2017 - 08:19 PM

I think it's just a sad fact of life that homelessness will always exist. I don't think the issue is just a lack of available homes, it's that not everyone can function within society. My mum has had severe mental health issues her whole life and without her family supporting her she would undoubtedly have been homeless. We forced her to attend appointments, managed her affairs, helped her with her finances, gave her emotional and spiritual support etc. Not everyone has that support structure, and without it, you can fall outside of the system. With some people society can step in, like people who have clear developmental disabilities like Down's Syndrome, you can easily prove they're not fit to support themselves and even if they have no friends or family the state will care for them and be their legal guardians and custodians. That keeps them in the system and ensures they're looked after.

 

But you can't do the same for people without such obvious legally defined vulnerabilities. Unless someone is a threat to other people or themselves, in which case they get institutionalised in a mental health facility or even a prison, society can't just take over their lives and force them to look after themselves and get their sh*t in order. You can't forcefully make someone a functioning member of society. Some people have issues or make bad choices, sometimes through their own fault and sometimes not, which means they end up in sh*tty situations and/or can't function as a normal member of society and they end up on the streets.

 

It's inevitable that some people will fail and never recover, no matter how much support they may get. It's sad and sometimes tragic, but unfortunately I think it's unavoidable.


Darth Absentis
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#579

Posted 08 April 2017 - 01:39 AM

Oh yeah because it's so taxing to sit in the air conditioned cab of plant machinery and push levers all day. Come on, you really think modern construction actually required any kind of physical exertion? This isn't the 1930's. That's why builders are always f*cking fat. I probably exert more energy sat at my desk.

 

Really, i generally do not go into this kind of threads because of my ignorance on such subjects, and i neither like to go off topic much, but wow, to consider being a builder an easy job that does not require a really healthy physique ever is quite ignorant.

 

Sure size of constructions does not say a lot about how much energy from the workers it costed to build said construction, but i sure can say that building crap for people can be exhausting as f*ck.

 

Worst are medium to heavy renovations at hard to reach areas, but just breaking off your standard brick wall with a concrete breaker for a whole day even at the most ideal of conditions is gonna put physical pressure on a person.

Same for bringing in 25 kg bags of concrete, carrying ruble out of houses, any work that revolves around going up and down stairs a lot, ect...

 

If you see a builder being really overweight, it is either because that kind of builder is specializing into something like being a plummer, controlling cranes, flushing walls, and other things like that.

 

Or...and this is also pretty common, they are the kind of idiot that is first gonna nearly starve themselves to death during the day, delaying the moment to take in a proper meal, or just skipping a proper meal entirely, or/and then is stuffing themselves full at the end of the day with anything they can eat.

Last thing is very common among the ones that lead the teams and such so far i have seen.

 

Also none of that hard work is gonna do what some kind of workout is gonna do, except for giving you more muscular arms, giving you more stamina and making you tired at the end when all is done for the day.

But yea, any limbs, the back, hand and feet are at risk of being forced by to much strain being put on them.

 

And again, this all depends on the work given.

Not gonna lie, in the 3 years i worked at such a place i also got plenty of days were all i was doing was filling up holes with concrete, flushing small gaps and just cleaning tiles...but yea, do even that kind of sh*t for a few days and even with some soft protection under your knees you will be feeling what you have done, even though there will no evidence of it except for a few stains on your trousers.

 

Really, i got no sources on those things except my own experience, you got to trust me on this one :p


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#580

Posted 08 April 2017 - 06:56 AM

I don't for a minute want to suggest that every part of construction is free from all manual toil, but a great many aspects of it are. Bricklaying and similar types of activity are obviously going to be very physical, but they're starting to become the exception rather than the norm, especially in civil construction where most buildings are made up of precast or prebuilt elements. And insinuating that women are too physically feeble to do them is, to be frank, f*cking stupid.
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ArmyRaidFail404
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#581

Posted 14 April 2017 - 10:34 AM

Is this thread open for Trotskyists such as myself or is it purely Anarchism? Asking just so I don't get into trouble and make a gulag or ice pick or comment that no one likes.

make total destroy
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#582

Posted 14 April 2017 - 03:16 PM Edited by make total destroy, 14 April 2017 - 03:18 PM.

Sure. I mean, no one likes Trots--not even Trots like Trots--but you can post in here. There was an ML posting here a while back before he got banned.

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sivispacem
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#583

Posted 14 April 2017 - 07:24 PM

Fwiw, he didn't get banned just for being a tankie. We're not THAT harsh.

Switch
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#584

Posted 3 weeks ago Edited by Switch, 3 weeks ago.

You can be whatever you want, it's probably just pure ideology anyways :)

 

http://imgur.com/a/p7qv2

 

This the best thing i've seen in a while haha.

 

My favorite one: 

 

nfzAZC1.jpg

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