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Was Ryder originally going to become a traitor?

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Raz3r95
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#1

Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:53 PM

The whole game , Sweet and Ryder claims that CJ is a buster, CJ is weak, CJ can't do nothing right and they don't really need him...

AND they say, especially ryder, that they are the real deal.

 

But during the missions:

 

Sweet : 

-Can't handle a bunch of seville boulevard families who are only heated with 9mm and CALLS YOU FOR HELP

-Can't survive gang wars all alone if you don't protect him (beat down at b-dub, grove 4 life)

-While you killed 1000 people, messed with the FBI, Army, robbed a mafia casino, learned to fly a apache, stole a military Jet etc... Sweet was in Jail and didn't do sh*t

 

Ryder:

-Can't beat up the ballas all alone without getting his ass kicked( mission cleaning the hood) if you don't help.

-Can't kill the vagos and ballas all alone without getting killed ( mission catalyst) if you don't help.

-Can't handle the soldiers all alone and dies if you don't get out of the forklifter constantly to help him ( funny how he said : ,,just weekend soldiers, no deal for real ogs'' before...)

-Gets killed by CJ without even trying to fight.

 

Thats why i hate them, they keep telling us that we suck, but are losers themselves  :D

 

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Jioyt 123
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#2

Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:59 PM

Never thought of it like that, but it does make sense. Although the main reason will probably be because the game wants you to actually do stuff and no rely on Ai. Or the Ai is just bad overall, but still, they do suck(especially Ryder,since he didnt put up a fight [but hes my fave character so...])
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BasicallyDrunK
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#3

Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:46 PM

I agree with Ryder, everytime i heard him saying "busta" i wanted to kill him.But i disagree with Sweet. He is just pissed off because CJ was late at their mom's funeral, just like at their little brother Brian's funeral.

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vicboh0413
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#4

Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:03 PM

I have expected that the characters are bad but they are programmed and are not smart! so you gotta understand that they cant do anything


B Dawg
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#5

Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:06 AM

He can handle the weekend soldiers, and the Ballas in Cleaning The Hood.

You don't need to leave your damn forklift you buster, you should just work the boxes faster! :p

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KBG
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#6

Posted 30 July 2014 - 02:34 PM

Sweet didn't actually say Busta to Carl everytime unlike Ryder the midget.

B Dawg
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#7

Posted 31 July 2014 - 09:29 AM

But Ryder isn't a midget :p He is actually taller than CJ.


lil weasel
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#8

Posted 31 July 2014 - 09:45 AM

Arguments on the "Midget" Ryder belong in:

http://gtaforums.com...idget/?hl=+midg


roadrage19
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#9

Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:42 PM

In retrospect, something just seemed off about Ryder's character after his betrayal. When Cesar shows CJ Big Smoke and Ryder's betrayal. Cj's all upset about Big Smoke and completely ignores Ryder as if he wasn't there. Then when he tells Sweet, he only tells him about Big Smoke betraying the GSF and doesn't even mention Ryder. Later, in the mission Pier 69, CJ takes one look at Ryder and just kills him right away. No cutscene, no conversation, no dramatic scene, nothing. Just Ryder getting killed and mission passed. CJ even did it without emotion. Also, when Sweet gets out of jail, he doesn't even ask about Ryder or where he's at as if there was never a person named Ryder with him to begin with. All that and he's CJ's childhood friend. His friend from childhood. I'm beginning to think that R* just improvised Ryder's betrayal and didn't actually plan on having him as a traitor. What about you guys?

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GTA19somethin
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#10

Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:54 PM

Agreed. There were absolutely no clues to Ryder's betrayal. For Big Smoke, there were so many clues that you just knew he was up to something. It's obvious that Ryder's betrayal was an afterthought.

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GTA_Sharpshooter
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#11

Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:11 PM

Yes.No.Maybe.

As you can see in Green Sabre CJ only is impressed with Smoke,Tempenny and The Ballas.He don't feel remorse when he kills him,only during Ya-ka,Boom Boom (We're Ces' tells him that Ryder tried something with Kendl).I Think CJ knew Ryder would betray him or that he wouldn't be antogonist (Or even important to the story).Im Both fats,R.I.P. Lance "Ryder" Wilson.A good,a bad a pothead character


lil weasel
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#12

Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:33 PM

Ryder is a nobody, although he and Big Smoke are the last of the Grove Street Gang. The had no respect for Sweet since he alone let the gang die off through lack of positive leadership (which CJ brought back to the community).
Big Smoke has his side business in Yay.
Ryder supplied weapons to the gang.
Ryder was a gnat, and CJ swatted him with just that amount of concern.
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SLUMPUSSY
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#13

Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:51 PM

"Childhood friend" does not equate to friend - for all we know Ryder could have bullied CJ in their childhood and carried on with that behavior when he returns, which is why he felt no remorse or sympathy when killing him whereas it seems like Smoke was always alot more fair with CJ and they had a much better relationship than him and Ryder.

 

It's highly likely it was just a last minute decision though.

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GTA_Sharpshooter
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#14

Posted 30 September 2014 - 12:01 AM

"Childhood friend" does not equate to friend - for all we know Ryder could have bullied CJ in their childhood and carried on with that behavior when he returns, which is why he felt no remorse or sympathy when killing him whereas it seems like Smoke was always alot more fair with CJ and they had a much better relationship than him and Ryder.

 

It's highly likely it was just a last minute decision though.

I don't think Ryder bullied CJ.They laugh when they remember,example:Robbing Uncle Sam:

"Hey CJ tell me why did get out of school"

*laughs*"Because you deal drugs since you're 14 (Or Something like it"

*laughs*"No it wasn't for that"

"Oh it was because you beat that teacher that dreased with Ballas color*laughs*"

I Still think with was beacuse he saw it coming or Rockstar script wasn't like that

After all those sh*ts Ryder and CJ been through (Army robbery,Colonel robbery,Train Robbery,Pizza Robbery) they still friends.


Nights744
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#15

Posted 30 September 2014 - 12:05 AM

I actually wish Ryder was the final boss. He's always saying things like "you are embarrassing us" and so on. Big Smoke never tells you anything like that. Also in the San Andreas Beta screenshots he looks like a good friend in his white outfit. Like a "Big Friend":

BigSmoke-GTASA2.jpg

But they probably thought that Ryder would make a bad final boss because of his looks and his talk. He was more of a side kick, more of a "Waluigi". So they went for a bigger boss and got Ryder to be his assistant. A pathetic one, I might add. So they changed it I think. That was the intention of the story writers! A person who seems harmless and shows his real character in the end, that makes a good final boss. When you look at this statue you know who's your enemy in the game:

11-gtasa11.jpg

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watersgta3
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#16

Posted 30 September 2014 - 12:43 AM

R* most likely improvised Ryder's betrayal. The introduction shows that Smoke was the one who talked Ryder into betraying the GSF, and based on the latter's behavior throughout the game, there's no way he would betray GSF on his own. If he was going to betray the gang, he had to have someone on his side.

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GTA19somethin
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#17

Posted 30 September 2014 - 04:12 AM

"Childhood friend" does not equate to friend - for all we know Ryder could have bullied CJ in their childhood and carried on with that behavior when he returns, which is why he felt no remorse or sympathy when killing him whereas it seems like Smoke was always alot more fair with CJ and they had a much better relationship than him and Ryder.

 

It's highly likely it was just a last minute decision though.

Cutscene of mission Ya-kay-Boom-boom: "f*cking Ryder man. That was my homie - and I killed him!"

 

Yeah, I don't know how you conceive it, but I don't think CJ would call someone who bullied him his "homie."


roadrage19
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#18

Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:33 PM

The

 

I actually wish Ryder was the final boss. He's always saying things like "you are embarrassing us" and so on. Big Smoke never tells you anything like that. Also in the San Andreas Beta screenshots he looks like a good friend in his white outfit. Like a "Big Friend":

BigSmoke-GTASA2.jpg

But they probably thought that Ryder would make a bad final boss because of his looks and his talk. He was more of a side kick, more of a "Waluigi". So they went for a bigger boss and got Ryder to be his assistant. A pathetic one, I might add. So they changed it I think. That was the intention of the story writers! A person who seems harmless and shows his real character in the end, that makes a good final boss. When you look at this statue you know who's your enemy in the game:

11-gtasa11.jpg

Another reason why Smoke should've been the only traitor. Ryder should've stayed on the Grove side and he could tag along with CJ in the Badlands and the two could work with Cesar in San Fierro. How cool would that have been?

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lil weasel
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#19

Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:29 PM

Not cool at all. Have you forgotten how Ryder is a User. Carl is out to end the drug traffic. And Ryder is the prime user in the group. His only value was the ability to acquire weapons.
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Paul723
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#20

Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:57 PM

Not cool at all. Have you forgotten how Ryder is a User. Carl is out to end the drug traffic. And Ryder is the prime user in the group. His only value was the ability to acquire weapons.

He was a user because he was a traitor. What that other guy is saying is that it would've been better if Ryder had stayed with the Grove and Smoke was the only one who betrayed the gang, thus Ryder would work along with CJ while Sweet is in jail.


Revolver1
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#21

Posted 02 October 2014 - 06:51 AM Edited by Revolver1, 02 October 2014 - 06:53 AM.

Not cool at all. Have you forgotten how Ryder is a User. Carl is out to end the drug traffic. And Ryder is the prime user in the group. His only value was the ability to acquire weapons.

Well, maybe when they reach SF, CJ relizes that Ryder has some issues with drugs, so he sent him to rehab. And when CJ is ready to go to LV, Ryder is out of rehab and back in action with CJ. I think that'd be pretty awesome. I kinda liked Ryder, with his sense of humour and sh*t like that. Yea he insulted CJ from time to time but at least he wasn't being so harsh on CJ, unlike Sweet.

Plus, I remember in a mission Sweet said Ryder was a good gunner (Drive-by maybe, not sure) so his only value was definetely not the ability to acquire weapons.

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roadrage19
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#22

Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:08 AM

 

Not cool at all. Have you forgotten how Ryder is a User. Carl is out to end the drug traffic. And Ryder is the prime user in the group. His only value was the ability to acquire weapons.

Well, maybe when they reach SF, CJ relizes that Ryder has some issues with drugs, so he sent him to rehab. And when CJ is ready to go to LV, Ryder is out of rehab and back in action with CJ. I think that'd be pretty awesome. I kinda liked Ryder, with his sense of humour and sh*t like that. Yea he insulted CJ from time to time but at least he wasn't being so harsh on CJ, unlike Sweet.

Plus, I remember in a mission Sweet said Ryder was a good gunner (Drive-by maybe, not sure) so his only value was definetely not the ability to acquire weapons.

 

Yeah. I mean so what if Ryder insulted CJ at times? He's really not any worse than Pulaski or Catalina.


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#23

Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:58 PM

I feel that those who dislike Ryder just exaggerate his personality. I mean I respect their opinions, but they make him turn out worse than he really is, talking about how he calls CJ a buster every second when he only called CJ a buster six times throughout the whole story. Plus, Ryder wasn't even that harsh towards CJ. All he did was insult him at times. He was just trying to poke some fun at CJ. The two were still friends despite that (before Ryder's betrayal that is). If you're really upset over someone insulting you, you're a sensitive baby, especially since the insults are coming from the mouth of a video game character who's not even real. It's not even that big of a deal. Catalina is way worse than Ryder, and Pulaski is an even bigger asshole (which doesn't really bother me since he's suppose to be the antagonist).

 

Anyway, back on topic. I'm guessing that R* just didn't know what to do with Ryder. So they decided to just make him a traitor like Smoke without thinking it through.


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#24

Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:19 PM

For me the same warning signals that gave Smoke away, gave Ryder away.  Cops dropping by his house to give him missions, missions that didn't make sense to CJ, the appearances of personnel and vehicles that suggested a well organised structure that was not in keeping with the then state of the GSF, his antagonistic comments to CJ, many of which seemed to come across as jealousy, Smoke having to tell him to be careful about what he was saying a couple of times.  The mission with his death was poorly executed by the writer/director, whoever but was warranted.  But I can understand why so many like him - that type of sambo character has always been popular.


Paul723
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#25

Posted 04 October 2014 - 02:15 AM

I feel that those who dislike Ryder just exaggerate his personality. I mean I respect their opinions, but they make him turn out worse than he really is, talking about how he calls CJ a buster every second when he only called CJ a buster six times throughout the whole story. Plus, Ryder wasn't even that harsh towards CJ. All he did was insult him at times. He was just trying to poke some fun at CJ. The two were still friends despite that (before Ryder's betrayal that is). If you're really upset over someone insulting you, you're a sensitive baby, especially since the insults are coming from the mouth of a video game character who's not even real. It's not even that big of a deal. Catalina is way worse than Ryder, and Pulaski is an even bigger asshole (which doesn't really bother me since he's suppose to be the antagonist).

 

Anyway, back on topic. I'm guessing that R* just didn't know what to do with Ryder. So they decided to just make him a traitor like Smoke without thinking it through.

Same here. I mean I respect the opinions of those who don't like him, but they make him worse than he really is, especially when we compare him to Catalina. I mean people need to just grow up and stop whining and getting all pissed off over a video game character.


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#26

Posted 04 October 2014 - 02:58 AM

I actually liked Ryder at first (probably because he looks like Eazy-E) so I wasn't expecting him to be a traitor tbh. Well I do understand why people don't like him because he's a dick but he had some funny moments and said some funny sh*t.


watersgta3
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#27

Posted 05 October 2014 - 05:56 PM Edited by watersgta3, 05 October 2014 - 05:59 PM.

I actually liked Ryder at first (probably because he looks like Eazy-E) so I wasn't expecting him to be a traitor tbh. Well I do understand why people don't like him because he's a dick but he had some funny moments and said some funny sh*t.

Of course he's a dick. He's a gangster. That's how gangsters are: mean, brusque, rude, a very mean streak. That's what made him an awesome character. He had the personality that was cohesive to the early 90s. Ryder would be a boring character if he wasn't an "asshole" character.


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#28

Posted 05 October 2014 - 06:33 PM

 

I actually liked Ryder at first (probably because he looks like Eazy-E) so I wasn't expecting him to be a traitor tbh. Well I do understand why people don't like him because he's a dick but he had some funny moments and said some funny sh*t.

Of course he's a dick. He's a gangster. That's how gangsters are: mean, brusque, rude, a very mean streak. That's what made him an awesome character. He had the personality that was cohesive to the early 90s. Ryder would be a boring character if he wasn't an "asshole" character.

 

By "dick" I meant annoying as f*ck, I didn't mind him being an asshole because it made him a better character.


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#29

Posted 07 October 2014 - 11:30 PM


We all wished Ryder died he is a dumb loser he calls CJ a buster and he never helped CJ with the Uncle Sam mission. Now you may be thinking that Ryder was holding them off he sucked at that he dies like in about 1 minute he is just a poor loser with no life also he deals drugs and I think that is wrong in GTA six I hope he suicides! :sui: :panic:


Scareycreator
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#30

Posted 07 October 2014 - 11:47 PM

Hey carl why did I quit school? Because you been dealing drugs since the age of TEN! No that wasn't it. OH BECAUSE YOU BEAT UP A TEACHER BECAUSE IT WAS WEARING BALLAS COLORS!? :sui: :lol:


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