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Middle Eastern Conflict [General]

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SouthLand
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#31

Posted 13 June 2014 - 07:40 AM

At least there's one benefit coming from the instability in Northern Iraq- the strengthening and expanding of Iraqi Kurdistan. It's already probably the only bit of Iraq that could be categorised as functioning.

 

Like the Break Away state of Somaliland in Somalia.


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#32

Posted 13 June 2014 - 04:07 PM

 

At least there's one benefit coming from the instability in Northern Iraq- the strengthening and expanding of Iraqi Kurdistan. It's already probably the only bit of Iraq that could be categorised as functioning.

 

Like the Break Away state of Somaliland in Somalia.

 

Except the Kurds are actively against ISIS, while Somaliland is kind of like "f*ck you guys, we're doing our own thing"


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#33

Posted 13 June 2014 - 05:14 PM

 

 

At least there's one benefit coming from the instability in Northern Iraq- the strengthening and expanding of Iraqi Kurdistan. It's already probably the only bit of Iraq that could be categorised as functioning.

 

Like the Break Away state of Somaliland in Somalia.

 

Except the Kurds are actively against ISIS, while Somaliland is kind of like "f*ck you guys, we're doing our own thing"

 

 

Indeed. The Kurds also have the Peshmerga, an organized, well-armed and motivated armed forces loyal to their government meanwhile having a clear identifiable political purpose. 


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#34

Posted 13 June 2014 - 06:44 PM Edited by D- Ice, 14 June 2014 - 12:28 AM.

As I predicted earlier, ISIS are making a push to the Sunni-dominated Diyala province after Salahuddine province.

There is news that Iran are sending in their elite Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), from areas where they are highly experienced in counter-insurgency operations against Iran's persecuted ethnic minorities. The IRGC are being deployed in Diyala, which borders Iran, Baghdad and Shia holy sites.

Iraq's state-controlled Al-Iraqiya TV (regime propaganda channel IMO) is claiming Tikrit has been recaptured by the IRGC and Iraqi Security Forces (ISF; officially police officers, but under control of Interior Ministry, and trained and armed like soldiers). However, I can't find verifications of these claims elsewhere, as is often the case with Al-Iraqiya TV claims.

This is bound to cause wide-spread anger amongst Sunnis, Tribes, Ba'athists, and perhaps even the Nationalists and Sunni Islamists in Iraq, as well as various other factions in the wider region. However, what significant effect this will have on the trouble, if any, remains to be seen.

 

^ Believe Adriaan was being ironic.

 

Thank you for that rich and detailed post D-Ice, all I can do is sigh and shake my head.

 

One has to question why, all of a sudden, this group is using standard military tactics. Did they all of a sudden get an infusion of cash? They're just brazen about it? Or just want to win quick?

No problem mate, I'm very glad you like my posts and that they're helpful. Sorry if they've been too wordy, I'll try to keep them shorter next time.

 

As for ISIS' more direct, regular tactics, you summed up the reasons exactly. It has also to do with the strength of opposition.

I'm no expert in military tactics, but I think it is more of a sliding scale with completely regular symmetrical warfare on one end, and completely irregular asymmetrical warfare on the other. For example, even within guerilla warfare, they'll use different levels of "directness" - using ambushes with guns and other weapons if the opposing force is only marginally better, like the rebels in Syria, or IEDs if the opposing force will overpower them even in an ambush, like insurgents against US troops in Iraq.

I think in this case, ISIS sensed the weakness of the ISF, and decided to attack directly.

 

Not sure if you've heard of this already, but they've interestingly apparantly loot $429 million from Mosul's central bank.

 

I'm sure that won't create any problems with Turkey.

I would've thought the exact same, until I recently visited some distant relatives in Erbil. Unexpectedly, it seems now that the city's economy is dominated by, and intertwined with Turkey. Most new development in the city are from Turkish firms, from supermarkets and food products, to clothing, to complete massive urban developments of luxury appartments, homes and villas at the edges of the town.

I think it is a very smart move by Turkey after the cessaton of hostilities with the PKK. It allows them to profiteer from Erbil's (and perhaps wider Kurdistan's) development, and prevent further trouble by having a dependant economy in Kurdistan, as well as the likely political influence that'll come with it.

As strange as it sounds in light of recent history, I actually expect Turkey and Kurdistan's interests to be aligned.

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acmilano
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#35

Posted 13 June 2014 - 06:50 PM Edited by acmilano, 13 June 2014 - 06:51 PM.

These guys are ambitious:

 

isid-in-hedefinde-turkiye-de-mi-var--446

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sivispacem
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#36

Posted 13 June 2014 - 07:10 PM

Pretty sure that's just a picture of the 9th/10th century caliphates. Hence all of Iberia and chunks of Greece being part of it.

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#37

Posted 13 June 2014 - 07:19 PM

These guys are ambitious:

 

isid-in-hedefinde-turkiye-de-mi-var--446

 

Ambitious they may be, but their planned border reforms are all over the place. Some of them have no connections and are just scribbles for Christ's sake


acmilano
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#38

Posted 13 June 2014 - 07:28 PM

Pretty sure that's just a picture of the 9th/10th century caliphates. Hence all of Iberia and chunks of Greece being part of it.

Nope,Balkan and Anadolia were newer part of Arab Caliphates,only Ottoman Empiremuch later in 15th/16th century:

 

http://en.wikipedia....Abbasids850.png

 

And Austria was never under control of any Islamic state.


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#39

Posted 13 June 2014 - 07:59 PM

Okay, so it's composed of chunks of historic caliphates. No idea why Austria is part of it, presumably someone slipped with the fill tool in Photoshop.
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The Yokel
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#40

Posted 13 June 2014 - 08:08 PM

These guys are ambitious:

 

isid-in-hedefinde-turkiye-de-mi-var--446

They'll get droned pretty fast.

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#41

Posted 13 June 2014 - 08:16 PM Edited by Vlynor, 13 June 2014 - 08:16 PM.

Okay, so it's composed of chunks of historic caliphates. No idea why Austria is part of it, presumably someone slipped with the fill tool in Photoshop.

 

Something to do with this, possibly? Seems fairly similar. Might just be a map of where Islam has spread to.

 

map_11_Spread_of_islam.gif

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Moth
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#42

Posted 13 June 2014 - 11:23 PM

 

Iraq's state-controlled Al-Iraqiya TV (regime propaganda channel IMO) is claiming Tikrit has been recaptured by the IRGC and Iraqi Security Forces (ISF; officially police officers, but under controlof Interior Ministry, and trained and armed like soldiers). However, I can't find verifications of these claims elsewhere, as is often the case with Al-Iraqiya TV claims.

 

So the Iraqis are back to their old tricks?

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#43

Posted 13 June 2014 - 11:27 PM

Interesting thread.

Just watched their video of them killing indiscriminately. Couldn't even finish as it was making me sick. These people are barbaric it's frightening.

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#44

Posted 13 June 2014 - 11:48 PM Edited by Spaghetti Cat, 13 June 2014 - 11:49 PM.

@Yokel: Easy on old McCain, he's eating his meals through a straw these days.  Not sure if he's all there tbh.  

 

If I learned anything from our recent past, the only way to confront radical islamists is with a hashtag campaign.  

 

Here's a few of mine, feel free to use:

 

#BringBackOurBaghdad 

 

#DudeWheresMyHead

 

#AreYouShiiteingMe 

 

#IranSoFarAway

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#45

Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:07 AM Edited by D- Ice, 14 June 2014 - 12:56 PM.

These guys are ambitious:

 

isid-in-hedefinde-turkiye-de-mi-var--446

No doubt they are an expansionist ideology, with long-term pipe-dreams of spreading throughout the world. This is very similar to many other political or religious ideologies which envision spreading all over the world - like Communism's aim of spreading Socialism, or NeoCons stating they want to spread Western values globally.

ISIS, are far less expansionist than Al-Qaeda. So far, as their name implies, their efforts have been forcussed on Iraq and Syria, despite their fighters originating from as far afield as Chechnya and the Central Asia. They'd have to undergo a whole bunch of name changes for each new area they want to spread to, so I doubt even they take this global domination pipe-dream with any seriousness.

 

Okay, so it's composed of chunks of historic caliphates. No idea why Austria is part of it, presumably someone slipped with the fill tool in Photoshop.

 

 

Okay, so it's composed of chunks of historic caliphates. No idea why Austria is part of it, presumably someone slipped with the fill tool in Photoshop.

 

Something to do with this, possibly? Seems fairly similar. Might just be a map of where Islam has spread to.

 

map_11_Spread_of_islam.gif

 

 

You're both spot-on. They use 7th Century Arabian names for the various areas mentioned during the initial spread of Islam, but not necessarily conquered.

The part where there's the Horn of Africa is labelled "Habasha", in reference to the Aksumite Kingdom (not conquered). Greece and the Iberian Peninsula are labelled as "Europe" (not conquered), and the large swathes of central Asia "Khorasan" (conquered).

These guys like to draw parallels between their situation and the initial Islamic conquests of the Rashidun and Umayyad Empires. The inclusion of areas not conquered then is either due to ignorance, or them thinking they can do a better job.

 

There are also some glaring historical inaccuracies though. The middle portions or Arabia are labelled "Hijaz" in reference to the West Arabian nation where Mecca and Medina are, now absorbed by the modern Saudi state. The central parts of Arabia were mostly part of the nation of "Kindah". Iraq as a name didn't exist until recently (Iraqi nationalist historical revisionism notwithstanding), and was known as "Souad" in the 7th century and much later. Turkey is called "Anatolia", despite being part of the Byzantine Empire in the 7th century, and was called "Rum", in reference to Rome, when first conquered by the Muslim Turks in the 15th century.

 

I'm really curious why there's a red dot where Tayma is. Is that their envsioned capital? What significance does it hold? Or is someone too stupid to label Umayyad capital Damascus on the map?

 

EDIT: I think the red dot is actually part of the red line drawn on the East of the map, likely a slip while using MS Paint. :blush:


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#46

Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:24 AM

I seem to remember people saying this was eventually going to happen again. I really wish the people of Iraq could find peace.

Another US invasion won't help anyone. Hopefully it doesn't come to that. We don't need to be Team America: World Police.
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Palikari
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#47

Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:34 AM

Another US invasion won't help anyone.

Do you suggest it's better to let those terrorists take over the country?

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#48

Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:36 AM

 

 

Iraq's state-controlled Al-Iraqiya TV (regime propaganda channel IMO) is claiming Tikrit has been recaptured by the IRGC and Iraqi Security Forces (ISF; officially police officers, but under controlof Interior Ministry, and trained and armed like soldiers). However, I can't find verifications of these claims elsewhere, as is often the case with Al-Iraqiya TV claims.

 

So the Iraqis are back to their old tricks?

 

Haha, same sh*t, different date. Maliki claimed he will take back Mosul and expel or kill all ISIS in less than 24 hours. It is 3 days later now, and ISIS are still making gains.

Also, the Iraqi soldiers in Mosul used the exact same retreat tactic as the Iraqi soldiers during the US invasion of 2003. Stripping off their uniforms, leaving all their weapons and equipment behind, and deserting en mass.

In 2003, my grandfather (RIP) said the Iraqi soldiers under the Ottoman Empire did the exact same thing when his tribe attacked Mosul and Baghdad over 200 years ago too.

Some things never change, it seems.

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#49

Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:38 AM

http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz34YihX3yJ

 

American contractors leaving bases in Iraq. USA is probably just leave all the factions to sort it out among themselves,and then deal with the winner.


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#50

Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:58 PM Edited by Chris Fromage, 14 June 2014 - 12:59 PM.

Since all this started, I hoped that the powerful nations in the Middle-East (Iran, Turkey & Saudi Arabia) would take some steps. 

 

http://www.theguardi...ts-nouri-maliki

 

Iran sends troops into Iraq to aid fight against Isis militants
 
Tehran and Washington form fragile alliance to aid Nouri al-Maliki as jihadist group threatens to take Baghdad

 

Iran has sent 2,000 advance troops to Iraq in the past 48 hours to help tackle a jihadist insurgency, a senior Iraqi official has told the Guardian.

The confirmation comes as the Iranian president, Hassan Rouhani, said Iran was ready to support Iraq from the mortal threat fast spreading through the country, while the prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, called on ordinary Iraqis to take up arms in their country's defence.

Addressing the nation on Saturday, Maliki said rebels from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) have given "an incentive to the army and to Iraqis to act bravely". His call to arms came after reports surfaced that hundreds of young men were flocking to volunteer centres across Baghdad to join the fight against Isis.

 

Seems like Iran has taken the first step.

 

It's also good to see that civilians are ready to fight for their country, against those terrorists. 

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#51

Posted 14 June 2014 - 01:31 PM

Only reason Iran is supporting Iraq is because the current Iraqi government is pretty much an Iranian puppet state. 

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#52

Posted 14 June 2014 - 04:34 PM

Even though there's an influx of new recruits for the Iraqi army, you have to remember that these people didn't volunteer when there was no need for them. Only when they were given a life or death option did they sign up. If the professional Iraqi army ran away from ISIS, what will these civilians playing soldier do?

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#53

Posted 14 June 2014 - 04:36 PM

I hope that we don't get involved.

I mean another war will ruin us.


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#54

Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:43 PM Edited by Chris Fromage, 14 June 2014 - 07:44 PM.

Giving an update:
 

Iraq's military claims victories; U.S. sends aircraft carrier to Gulf
 
Irbil, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraq's military claimed Saturday that it had regained key northern territories from extremist Sunni Muslim militants and asserted it remained strong and capable against the radicals who have suddenly destabilized the country, a military spokesman said.
 
Most of Salaheddin province has beenreturned to the control of Iraqi military, and security forces also took back territory on the edges of Nineveh province, Maj. Gen. Qassim Atta said.
 
But his account conflicted with security officials in Baghdad and Samarra who told CNN that 60% to 70% of Salaheddin province remains in control of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or 
ISIS, the extreme Sunni group. It also controls an oil refinery in Baiji, officials said.
 
Meanwhile, U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has ordered the aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush into the Persian Gulf from the North Arabian Sea.

 
http://edition.cnn.c.../iraq-violence/
 


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#55

Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:09 PM

Current situation in Iraq,with main factions:

 

http://en.wikipedia....ar_detailed_map


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#56

Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:43 PM

It is about time. Go Iraqis! Don't take that sh*t lying down!


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#57

Posted 15 June 2014 - 06:29 PM Edited by D- Ice, 15 June 2014 - 06:46 PM.

Just a bit of an update; a purported ISIS video shows the mass execution of hundreds of captured ISF commanders and allied militia-men. They supposedly allowed regular ISF conscripts go free.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-27858692

 

This is very much in line with ISIS' brand of ultra-violence. IMO, for them, this will have the negative effect of forcing fighters engaging them to fight to thedeath rather that surrender, knowing that so much of those surrenedering will be executed. However, it might also lead to the mass desertions we saw a few days ago - staying to fight ISIS means victory or death.

Of course, this will only increase the great opposition, anger and fear from local residents of areas they take over, as well as local insurgent/resistance groups. In the BBC article, you can see the dislike of a (I'm guessing JRTN) fighter/commander to ISIS.

Oddly enough, these tactics have never affected ISIS'size or recruitment. That is because unlike other insurgent groups, including al-Qaeda, they do not rely on local recruitment alone. They recruit hardline Jihadists who already agree with their methods from across the globe, brining them together into the warzones where they are fighting. Thus international, and even local, approval is largely unimportant to them. However, they often fight alongside local rebels and insurgents, so losing local approval will carry similar results to the Rebel-ISIS conflict in Syria. However there, ISIS surprisingly managed to hold off pretty well.

 

Still very contradictory and unverified reports comiing from Mosul under insurgent control. Some claim ISIS is dominant, imposing their version of Sharia law, banning other rebel groups from hanging pictures of Saddam (in ISIS' version of Islam,merely hanging pictures of people is breaking the First Commandment), and even killing JRTN leader Izzat al-Douri's son and 50 other JRTN members or Ba'athists. This case suggests that ISIS very much holds sway in the areas under insurgent control, with Mosul likely run like Raqqah in Syria - ISIS' biggest stronghold and capital city. Other reports say that Saddam-era officers are running Mosul, while someone with family ties to the old Hashemite Monarchy in Iraq has been put in charge of Tikrit. In this second case, there's the likelihood that secularist moderates with Arab or Iraqi Nationalist beliefs have the most influence.

 

EDIT: A interesting article that tries to explain the rise of ISIS.

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#58

Posted 15 June 2014 - 08:08 PM Edited by El_Diablo, 15 June 2014 - 08:09 PM.

reports, allegations, video clips, still photographs.

we're not going to figure this out on GTAForums. none of us are experts on any of this and it's about as ancient and complex as historical conflicts get.

 

the history lesson here is clear: stay the f*ck out of the Middle East. you cannot effect change there. it has to happen from within or it won't happen. the people who live in that part of the world have to figure their sh*t out or exterminate each other trying. Western involvement is - and has always been - a useless quagmire that only ensures the generation of future Western-hating extremists. leave it alone. we don't have to play Cops n Robbers every time we find something bad happening in the world. sometimes you gotta' let history work itself out.

 

if Iraq is a failed state then so be it.

it's not our job to make it otherwise. "terrorists" don't need a country to operate from. they'll be alive and hate us from wherever they want.

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#59

Posted 16 June 2014 - 02:05 AM

reports, allegations, video clips, still photographs.

we're not going to figure this out on GTAForums. none of us are experts on any of this and it's about as ancient and complex as historical conflicts get.

 

the history lesson here is clear: stay the f*ck out of the Middle East. you cannot effect change there. it has to happen from within or it won't happen. the people who live in that part of the world have to figure their sh*t out or exterminate each other trying. Western involvement is - and has always been - a useless quagmire that only ensures the generation of future Western-hating extremists. leave it alone. we don't have to play Cops n Robbers every time we find something bad happening in the world. sometimes you gotta' let history work itself out.

 

if Iraq is a failed state then so be it.

it's not our job to make it otherwise. "terrorists" don't need a country to operate from. they'll be alive and hate us from wherever they want.

 

No way that place changes for the better, but if there was ever a chance, it will take at least two generations....

 

what a mess...


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#60

Posted 16 June 2014 - 02:15 AM

So I watched that ISIS 60-min murder mixtape and I can't believe I actually watched the whole thing (I'm not gonna post the link because it's NSFW as f*ck, do your own searching.) These guys arent your average cave dwelling terrorists recording sh*t from a Motorola Razr from 2007, these guys are using f*cking GoPros with Adobe Aftereffects editing with slo mo.
They got their hands on military weaponry and night optics and gear and are using outrageously powerful IEDs that literally ripped apart up-armored humvees and M113 APCs and sent them flying 30ft in the f*cking air. They murdered everyone and anyone affiliated with the military, government or just don't follow their religion, going door to door and executed officers in their own homes. These guys are not the ones to f*ck with.

This is beyond psychotic, these guys are not even human just plain evil...
Peace talks and negotiations are not on the f*cking menu. There's a serious glitch in these guys heads and they cannot be fixed. They need to be vaporized off this f*cking planet. Who wakes up one day and goes out do this sh*t and sleeps peacefully???

You know your a f*cked up organization when Al Qaeda says that "you niggas are f*cked up! We don't got sh*t to do with you!"




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