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Am I the only one… [Big Smoke]? <Spoiler>

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90sGTA
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#31

Posted 10 February 2015 - 06:32 PM

First time I played the game I can't say I was expecting it but it wasn't a shock either when it happened as I had picked up on some of the clues that others have mentioned but hadn't worked out their relevance. Once the reveal took place in TGS I instantly thought of things such as the house in Idlewood, the cosiness he seemed to have with Tenpenny and Pulaski and had an "Ah, of course!" moment.

A lot of people were just hypnotized of his good personality. To me, however, I didn't buy his "good" personality a single tenth of a second. In fact, that just made me suspect him even more; the way he was being overly nice to CJ is enough evidence for his betrayal. For Ryder, there were no prominent clues to his betrayal. The only clue I could think of is in the mission Reuniting the Families when he and Big Smoke rode away, leaving CJ to search into the hotel for Sweet.


Eleed
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#32

Posted 24 February 2015 - 04:23 AM

Someone might of already said this but in the beginning Smoke throws the bat on Beverly's (CJ's mom) photo which is kind of foreshadowing. 

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PhillBellic
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#33

Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:10 AM

Someone might of already said this but in the beginning Smoke throws the bat on Beverly's (CJ's mom) photo which is kind of foreshadowing. 

Now that you mention it, it is one of the earliest scenes of foreshadowing, if you discount 'The Introduction' short movie.


Coleman627
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#34

Posted 07 July 2015 - 07:52 AM

Smoke was my favorite character. But I always knew he would turn on me the second I learned that his house was in Idlewood. Ryder's betrayal on the other hand still makes no sense.

Henry Hernandez
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#35

Posted 04 May 2016 - 10:56 PM Edited by Henry Hernandez, 04 May 2016 - 10:57 PM.

To be honest, Ryder's betrayal was far more surprising to me than Smoke's betrayal. While Ryder was a jerk, he actually had more passion to the GSF and seemed so obsessed with the gang that he seemed like a guy who wouldn't turn on his gang for any reason (which is why it would make more sense that someone would talk him into doing so in the introduction), and based on his personality, there's no way he would turn his back on the Grove unless there was someone else talking him into it. Smoke's betrayal on the other hand was too obvious from the beginning. In Drive Thru, he kept trying to get CJ and Sweet to stop talking about their mother's death like he was hiding something. Then he tries to eat up everyone's food as an excuse not to shoot at the Ballas. That's how you know he was trying to hide something. Let's not forget the fact that he wasn't at CJ's mom's funeral and even lives in Idlewood. How were those not hints to everyone who played the game? Hell even Lance's betrayal in Vice City was far more surprising than Smoke's betrayal. I never saw any hints to Ryder's betrayal and believe that R* just improvised his betrayal as an excuse to write him off of the storyline because they had no idea what to do with his character.


toomuchinvigilation
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#36

Posted 05 May 2016 - 12:16 AM

And what about Big Smoke's driving in "Reuniting of Families"? It makes no sense. Why did he drive into the alleyway with a chopper? Why did he decide to go through? Why was he accelerating after getting past the chopper?  The brakes didn't work after being fine just few moments before that? Yeah, right...


lil weasel
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#37

Posted 05 May 2016 - 12:41 AM

And what about Big Smoke's driving in "Reuniting of Families"? It makes no sense. Why did he drive into the alleyway with a chopper? Why did he decide to go through? Why was he accelerating after getting past the chopper?  The brakes didn't work after being fine just few moments before that? Yeah, right...

It happens, about a month ago I was pulling into a parking space. Just fine. But, when I came out of the store a half-hour later the pedal went to the floor as I was shifting to back out.


Osho
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#38

Posted 05 May 2016 - 05:12 AM

I feel like OP is lying.
Personally, I didn't find Smoke suspicious nor the impression that there was a betrayal angle to the story. I'd be lying to myself if I said I knew Big Smoke was gonna betray.
Ryder definitely appeared suspicious as the story progressed giving me an impression that there's something wrong about his character, and I wasn't really surprised to see Ryder in the mission 'The Green Sabre', turning out to be a f*cking asshole.

What really shocked me, and upsetting to find out was Big Smoke turning out to be a traitor, as well ???

It was only on repeat playthroughs of the story that I started to see the hidden clues regarding Big Smoke that does show hints about his involvement with Tenpenny and signs for his betrayal, but otherwise I'd so much focused on his funny personality that I don't think its so easy to predict about his other side. Big Smoke was a lot more caring towards CJ during the early events in the story and as such I find it hard to believe any one claiming that they already figured it out that he would betray CJ, unless they have seen the Introduction video which anyways gives major spoilers to the story.
I don't remember even the early previews to the game gave much details about Big Smoke or Ryder's character that would give any hints about betrayal when playing for the first time on release day.

Journey_95
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#39

Posted 05 May 2016 - 03:10 PM Edited by Journey_95, 05 May 2016 - 03:11 PM.

He definitely fooled me, f*cking Smoke! Great character though,one of the best of the series.

 

I totally saw Ryder's betrayal coming and was actually disappointed because that was predictable, they wasted his character. Especially since CJ doesn't care about him, its always BIG SMOKE. His death was lame too.


Paul723
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#40

Posted 05 May 2016 - 05:40 PM

He definitely fooled me, f*cking Smoke! Great character though,one of the best of the series.
 
I totally saw Ryder's betrayal coming and was actually disappointed because that was predictable, they wasted his character. Especially since CJ doesn't care about him, its always BIG SMOKE. His death was lame too.

Yeah. It just seemed that R* just had no idea what to do with him after you leave LS and made him a traitor randomly. Then after his death, nobody ever mentions him, and Sweet doesn't even ask about him when CJ breaks him out of jail. It was as if nobody ever knew a person named Ryder.
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lil weasel
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#41

Posted 05 May 2016 - 07:22 PM

IT may take 2 to five years to develop a game.

The Story is written first and laid out Prior to the Codes and Artists starting work.

They do not "wing" it as they go along.  Rockstar knew exactly what they wanted all through the story.

They might have deleted some "chrome" and maybe unanswerable problem before the deadline, but they did know what was going on.

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Keano
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#42

Posted 05 May 2016 - 07:24 PM

Back in 2004, I didn't see it but playing it now there was plenty of hints such as the Tenpenny and Pulaski visiting his house and how he was very sharp with CJ's questions following "Wrong Side of The Tracks"

 

Ryder shocked me though. Him and CJ didn't see eye to eye but I felt when it mattered, Ryder would've had CJ and Sweet's back. 


Henry Hernandez
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#43

Posted 06 May 2016 - 02:17 AM Edited by Henry Hernandez, 06 May 2016 - 02:17 AM.

Back in 2004, I didn't see it but playing it now there was plenty of hints such as the Tenpenny and Pulaski visiting his house and how he was very sharp with CJ's questions following "Wrong Side of The Tracks"
 
Ryder shocked me though. Him and CJ didn't see eye to eye but I felt when it mattered, Ryder would've had CJ and Sweet's back. 

CJ and Ryder were, as TV Tropes would put it, Vitriolic Best Buds. Even though they insulted each other, they still had occasional laughs Everest now and then. I always saw CJ and Ryder's relationship similar to Sonic and Knuckles in the Sonic games/TV shows. I really didn't see any hints to Ryder's betrayal, unlike Smoke. The only hint regarding Ryder's betrayal I can think of is the mission where he and Smoke drove away when CJ went inside the hotel for his brother.

toomuchinvigilation
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#44

Posted 06 May 2016 - 06:47 AM

Yeah. It just seemed that R* just had no idea what to do with him after you leave LS and made him a traitor randomly. Then after his death, nobody ever mentions him, and Sweet doesn't even ask about him when CJ breaks him out of jail. It was as if nobody ever knew a person named Ryder.

CJ actually talks about him with Cesar in the cutscene before "Yay Ka-Boom-Boom", but I agree, Ryder is almost completely ignored for no reason.





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