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R* punishes tactics and strategy with new payouts

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Gay Tony
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#481

Posted 29 August 2014 - 01:05 AM Edited by mr toasterbutt, 29 August 2014 - 01:15 AM.

If there is one thing R* has been battling since day one with this game, it's players not playing the game "as intended".  Whether it's abusing exploits, glitching, or even being anti-social grinders, apparently.  R* wants the game to be played a certain way and complaining about how "fair" it is might fall on deaf ears.  R* decided that they wanted to slow players down a bit and encourage group play.  Maybe this is tied up with the upcoming heists, where players will be expected to work together and wait for eachother at certain points, taking your time and being methodical.  Who knows. 

 

Can't disagree with R* wanting this to be played a certain way, but all the reasons you listed imo come down to shark cards.

 

There's no way any company would introduce shark cards without giving incentives to buy them. It's why heists won't pay well, or if they do they'll be beyond the average players ability.

 

Why is this business model frowned upon?

 

Simple. Shark cards simply give back the ability everyone used to have when Online first started, and everyone knows this. 

 

Whether or not you're the cash card conspiracist like I am,  or you think "R* wants to improve longevity". (which I think is absurd, *fun* gameplay improves longevity, not money). Doesn't matter if R* changed its mind from before and tries to fix their mistake. It's too late. Cats out of the box.

 

It's kind of like being the parent of a spoiled 8 year old and taking away her laptop then replacing it with a cardboard box.

 

Our ability to make money is being capped with each passing update. No if, ands, or buts about it. This isn't up for debate.

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#482

Posted 29 August 2014 - 01:17 AM

Sure, that's a possibility.  Of course, there are quite a few players claiming to be making more money now than before, and I still maintain it's those more casual players that buy cash cards to begin with, not tactical genius grinders.

 

As far as heists paying well or not, I still think a good system would be for heists to have a cool down.  You'd operate through Lester and after a successful heist he'll inform you that he'll be "laying low until the heat blows over" and suggests you do the same.  In that time you'll be unable to access or join a heist group.  Since 1 day in the game is 48 minutes, iirc, than that means a month in the game is exactly 24 hours.  So they could force you to "lay low" for a month (1 day) for lower end targets and as much as 6 months (6 days) for high profile hits.  Then they could up the payouts, but simply make it impossible to grind.


Gay Tony
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#483

Posted 29 August 2014 - 01:29 AM Edited by mr toasterbutt, 29 August 2014 - 01:32 AM.

Sure, that's a possibility.  Of course, there are quite a few players claiming to be making more money now than before, and I still maintain it's those more casual players that buy cash cards to begin with, not tactical genius grinders.

 

As far as heists paying well or not, I still think a good system would be for heists to have a cool down.  You'd operate through Lester and after a successful heist he'll inform you that he'll be "laying low until the heat blows over" and suggests you do the same.  In that time you'll be unable to access or join a heist group.  Since 1 day in the game is 48 minutes, iirc, than that means a month in the game is exactly 24 hours.  So they could force you to "lay low" for a month (1 day) for lower end targets and as much as 6 months (6 days) for high profile hits.  Then they could up the payouts, but simply make it impossible to grind.

 

Anyone claiming to make more money than before, *is* making more money than before.

 

R* is throwing hardcore gamers under the bus because that's not who they're making money from.

 

Playing casually, with friends, and buying shark cards is the ideal situation for them.

 

In my opinion heists won't be worth it to most players for the time and/or effort involved. The way it's headed I bet most people will try it once and won't try it again.

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V HoneyBadger V
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#484

Posted 29 August 2014 - 09:51 AM Edited by V HoneyBadger V, 29 August 2014 - 11:31 AM.

Here is my opinion on how things should be.

Heists should be really hard to do, so only the upper band of the community could complete. These players are the hardcore players that have been playing since Day 1, didn't do dirty rank and money glitches, and are around the 200-300 level mark.

Shark Cards are blatantly there for casual gamers who don't have the ability or commitment to make money fast. They just play the game to drive around a bit.
This is what has pissed me off. Any low level can buy anything, with the right amount of money. Super cars are not locked to high levels, good guns are available early and for some reason, low levels are allowed to play high level missions without having them unlocked.
Just look at the contact missions released in DLC. Not one of them was made for somebody level 200.
I'm level 292 and the only thing that stands out in a lobby is my rank and Gamertag.
Any low level can buy the best car in a racing class, and I cannot see why. If it was my way, they'd be buying things off San Andreas Super Autos (excluding bikes) and having to level up to level 150 before they can buy any high end vehicle.

I believe that Heists should be locked for levels 200+ and made so hard to do that the casuals are not allowed to play. The casual players may be the one fuelling the money flames, but the hardcore players are the people who made Rockstar a big name by playing their games for hours on end.
If Heists are easy then I will be disappointed. Hacking the laptops in missions for example is far too easy. The only defining thing I can show is that HackConnect.exe can be done by me in a few seconds. Who cares though? Most people can hack the laptop.

Casuals and low levels are able to have things like the Adder and Zentorno. Why? I'm level 292, why isn't that exclusive to people who have worked hard?
People who have been here since day 1 like myself have experienced the hardships that Rockstar inflicted with every single patch. We felt the game almost crumble to pieces in December/January when hacked billions came in. We have watched the community slowly destroy itself with mods, hacks and kids ruining public lobbies.
The casual players and low levels have been through none of that, yet Rockstar still give them things to buy and do.

The hardcore players are the ones that have kept the game alive and have been playing religiously while completely disregarding every other game release since last September. Because we saw this as one of the best games of our generation, and Rockstar pushed boundaries. That magic will die unless they do something for the real fans and true players.

Here's more.
Take a look at the high end missions. They got nerfed.
Then look at the low level missions. They got buffed hard. That is Rockstar making it easier for newbies, casuals and low levels to progress.
I didn't get that treatment in October, neither did thousands of others.
The low levels will take a long time to complete missions, whereas high levels will be much quicker and could probably do many missions in less that 5 minutes.
The fact remains that the original post is correct. Rockstar do not reward and instead punish tactics and strategy thanks to 1.16. If this wasn't true, then Solo players would get paid more than a team. This isn't even debatable. Skilled players should not have to wait in missions to increase payout.

I am getting GTA V on Xbox One for Christmas and I hope that Rockstar will have Heists ready. But if noobs can do it, I will be very disappointed. They have had enough VIP treatment. This patch is testament to this.

One thing I will say is that Flight School Gold seems to be exclusive to those with some degree of skill. No matter how many Cash Cards you have bought, it will not help you land a chopper on a truck or fly through skyscrapers collecting flags. Maybe that is a sign of things to come.

Rockstar have been unfair to their true fan base and this needs to stop.
This is why I have full respect for 343i and Bungie. They know how to treat their own. Destiny and The Master Chief Collection will blow me away, I am sure of it.

But yeah, OP is right, no exceptions.
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ten-a-penny
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#485

Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:28 AM

^ Somebody who actually have a f*cking brain.

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#486

Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:48 PM

I guess R* doesn't think alienating the majority to pander to the minority is an intelligent business model.  It really doesn't matter how many hours you play the game, the real support R* needs is financial.  Whether you buy the game and play all day everyday, or just on weekends, you're still supporting the company just about equally.  A lot of gaming companies go under, because the game only appeals to small handful of players and no one else.  Life is all about compromise and it's rarely fair.  Those that adapt survive, those that don't...

 

But maybe with heists there might be a way for solo players to make more money than groups.  In SP you go for a score and afterwards it gets split.  So unless R* puts heists in the game with no predetermined dollar amounts set to steal, you could run the heists with smaller groups or even solo, so the cuts are much bigger.  That might result in the heist taking longer and being more difficult, but if you have "tactics and skill" you could make a lot more money than other players.  Especially if heists were to have a cool down. 


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#487

Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:28 PM

R* Cash Card department: Mothra

R* devs: Godzilla


Kampret
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#488

Posted 29 August 2014 - 03:39 PM

If Rockstar made it so if you finish the mission as fast  as possible you get more money, it would ENCOURAGE grinding.

 

 

Get that through your f*cking head guys.

 

And that's better than having to watch another player going AFC simply to stall the timer (especially if you died and/or spectating).


@V Honeybadger V

 

So, you're saying that day-1 players or over-200 levels = hardcore players? No mate, rank/total time played doesn't determine skills. What determine skills are how you perform in free-roam/deathmatch/missions and how you do heists in SP.

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#489

Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:39 PM Edited by V HoneyBadger V, 29 August 2014 - 10:40 PM.

If Rockstar made it so if you finish the mission as fast  as possible you get more money, it would ENCOURAGE grinding.
 
 
Get that through your f*cking head guys.

 
And that's better than having to watch another player going AFC simply to stall the timer (especially if you died and/or spectating).@V Honeybadger V
 
So, you're saying that day-1 players or over-200 levels = hardcore players? No mate, rank/total time played doesn't determine skills. What determine skills are how you perform in free-roam/deathmatch/missions and how you do heists in SP.
Firstly, I'm not your mate.
If it wasn't clearly obvious from anything I said, higher levels have more experience and knowledge. They have had more time to hone their skills than lower levels. Unless somebody is retarded or has some kind of natural skill cap, they will perform better over time. So it is a fair assumption that rank and time determine skills. Rank and time go hand in hand.
Time spent in a game does determine skill, because skill can only increase with time and experience.
Musicians don't pick up and instrument and instantly know how to play it. Unless somebody has a valid medical condition or simply lacks basic intelligence, it is impossible for someone to not get better at something after doing it multiple times.
Day 1 player is not the same as level 200+. I am both, but not everybody else is.
I don't need to consider my own skills, because I know that I am very good. That isn't me being headstrong. I know from lots of experience that I can handle any situation I am put into. Dealing with other players and hostile NPCs is now second nature.

Free roam is hardly any real skill show. Any fa**ot with half a brain can reverse in a supercar and throw a sticky bomb. Auto aim lobbies are invalid examples. The person with better ping and a stronger weapon will kill first, unless the defendant can quickly score a headshot.
Free roam does show initiative and ideas. That is a proper skill, using your brain and thinking.
Nobody expects me to jump into the subway while on a bike during a chase, resulting them in crashing their badly customized car. No one thinks I will hide in a shop while off the radar or drive past them while hidden.

Deathmatches are broken and so easy to exploit. Anyone can camp round a corner and kill somebody while their back is turned. I gave up on deathmatches because they are boring and they are just as broken and awkward to play as Gears of War matchmaking. Death matches are almost always unbalanced.

Missions show your capability to handle multiple enemies. But thanks to Rockstar and their stupid decision (hence this thread) the skill of completing a mission as fast as possible is a dead concept. People who slack and do nothing for 10 minutes get paid more.

Finally, LOL. Single Player heists hold your hand and are not hard to complete in the slightest. Any person can complete can do SP Heists.
The heists, like pretty much every other mission, ask you to complete an objective which must be completed else you fail and must restart from the last checkpoint. Plus you can spam the special abilities all day, which completely ruined it for me.
Single player activities are irrelevant because this is Online. None of that counts for anything here,

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#490

Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:55 PM

u sound BH


Kampret
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#491

Posted 29 August 2014 - 11:42 PM

 

 

If Rockstar made it so if you finish the mission as fast  as possible you get more money, it would ENCOURAGE grinding.
 
 
Get that through your f*cking head guys.

 
And that's better than having to watch another player going AFC simply to stall the timer (especially if you died and/or spectating).@V Honeybadger V
 
So, you're saying that day-1 players or over-200 levels = hardcore players? No mate, rank/total time played doesn't determine skills. What determine skills are how you perform in free-roam/deathmatch/missions and how you do heists in SP.
Firstly, I'm not your mate.
If it wasn't clearly obvious from anything I said, higher levels have more experience and knowledge. They have had more time to hone their skills than lower levels. Unless somebody is retarded or has some kind of natural skill cap, they will perform better over time. So it is a fair assumption that rank and time determine skills. Rank and time go hand in hand.
Time spent in a game does determine skill, because skill can only increase with time and experience.
Musicians don't pick up and instrument and instantly know how to play it. Unless somebody has a valid medical condition or simply lacks basic intelligence, it is impossible for someone to not get better at something after doing it multiple times.
Day 1 player is not the same as level 200+. I am both, but not everybody else is.
I don't need to consider my own skills, because I know that I am very good. That isn't me being headstrong. I know from lots of experience that I can handle any situation I am put into. Dealing with other players and hostile NPCs is now second nature.

Free roam is hardly any real skill show. Any fa**ot with half a brain can reverse in a supercar and throw a sticky bomb. Auto aim lobbies are invalid examples. The person with better ping and a stronger weapon will kill first, unless the defendant can quickly score a headshot.
Free roam does show initiative and ideas. That is a proper skill, using your brain and thinking.
Nobody expects me to jump into the subway while on a bike during a chase, resulting them in crashing their badly customized car. No one thinks I will hide in a shop while off the radar or drive past them while hidden.

Deathmatches are broken and so easy to exploit. Anyone can camp round a corner and kill somebody while their back is turned. I gave up on deathmatches because they are boring and they are just as broken and awkward to play as Gears of War matchmaking. Death matches are almost always unbalanced.

Missions show your capability to handle multiple enemies. But thanks to Rockstar and their stupid decision (hence this thread) the skill of completing a mission as fast as possible is a dead concept. People who slack and do nothing for 10 minutes get paid more.

Finally, LOL. Single Player heists hold your hand and are not hard to complete in the slightest. Any person can complete can do SP Heists.
The heists, like pretty much every other mission, ask you to complete an objective which must be completed else you fail and must restart from the last checkpoint. Plus you can spam the special abilities all day, which completely ruined it for me.
Single player activities are irrelevant because this is Online. None of that counts for anything here,

 

 

So much for generalizing, not everyone from day-1 is a skilled player. It's like saying everyone who doesn't start from day-1 means they're skill-less.

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#492

Posted 29 August 2014 - 11:56 PM

So much for generalizing, not everyone from day-1 is a skilled player. It's like saying everyone who doesn't start from day-1 means they're skill-less.

:^:   Day 1 master race.  Noobs, bow down to us.  :p    /sarcasm

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#493

Posted 29 August 2014 - 11:58 PM Edited by V HoneyBadger V, 29 August 2014 - 11:59 PM.

If Rockstar made it so if you finish the mission as fast  as possible you get more money, it would ENCOURAGE grinding.
 
 
Get that through your f*cking head guys.

 
And that's better than having to watch another player going AFC simply to stall the timer (especially if you died and/or spectating).@V Honeybadger V
 
So, you're saying that day-1 players or over-200 levels = hardcore players? No mate, rank/total time played doesn't determine skills. What determine skills are how you perform in free-roam/deathmatch/missions and how you do heists in SP.
Firstly, I'm not your mate.
If it wasn't clearly obvious from anything I said, higher levels have more experience and knowledge. They have had more time to hone their skills than lower levels. Unless somebody is retarded or has some kind of natural skill cap, they will perform better over time. So it is a fair assumption that rank and time determine skills. Rank and time go hand in hand.
Time spent in a game does determine skill, because skill can only increase with time and experience.
Musicians don't pick up and instrument and instantly know how to play it. Unless somebody has a valid medical condition or simply lacks basic intelligence, it is impossible for someone to not get better at something after doing it multiple times.
Day 1 player is not the same as level 200+. I am both, but not everybody else is.
I don't need to consider my own skills, because I know that I am very good. That isn't me being headstrong. I know from lots of experience that I can handle any situation I am put into. Dealing with other players and hostile NPCs is now second nature.
Free roam is hardly any real skill show. Any fa**ot with half a brain can reverse in a supercar and throw a sticky bomb. Auto aim lobbies are invalid examples. The person with better ping and a stronger weapon will kill first, unless the defendant can quickly score a headshot.
Free roam does show initiative and ideas. That is a proper skill, using your brain and thinking.
Nobody expects me to jump into the subway while on a bike during a chase, resulting them in crashing their badly customized car. No one thinks I will hide in a shop while off the radar or drive past them while hidden.
Deathmatches are broken and so easy to exploit. Anyone can camp round a corner and kill somebody while their back is turned. I gave up on deathmatches because they are boring and they are just as broken and awkward to play as Gears of War matchmaking. Death matches are almost always unbalanced.
Missions show your capability to handle multiple enemies. But thanks to Rockstar and their stupid decision (hence this thread) the skill of completing a mission as fast as possible is a dead concept. People who slack and do nothing for 10 minutes get paid more.
Finally, LOL. Single Player heists hold your hand and are not hard to complete in the slightest. Any person can complete can do SP Heists.
The heists, like pretty much every other mission, ask you to complete an objective which must be completed else you fail and must restart from the last checkpoint. Plus you can spam the special abilities all day, which completely ruined it for me.
Single player activities are irrelevant because this is Online. None of that counts for anything here,
 
So much for generalizing, not everyone from day-1 is a skilled player. It's like saying everyone who doesn't start from day-1 means they're skill-less.
Ok, fair enough, you have a point. I generalised because it makes sense, but there are obviously exceptions to that.
I'm not going to rewrite what I have already said.
I don't know what you think a hardcore player, but they are the ones screwed by this update. Regular players who play to win. Not necessarily hardcore, but more than the average joe.

Anyway...

Shorter time should equal more pay, but it does not. That's the only way a time variable makes sense, else the payouts should be fixed.
I agree with what you (Kampret) said about grinding being better than waiting around. I don't play missions to waste time. I want money and I want it now, not in 15 minutes after being so bored I'm about to slip into a coma. I spent way too long today waiting for idiots who decide to AFC by the yellow circle for no reason. And I can't see that stopping any time soon.
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#494

Posted 30 August 2014 - 07:13 AM

If Rockstar made it so if you finish the mission as fast  as possible you get more money, it would ENCOURAGE grinding.
 
 
Get that through your f*cking head guys.

 
And that's better than having to watch another player going AFC simply to stall the timer (especially if you died and/or spectating).@V Honeybadger V
 
So, you're saying that day-1 players or over-200 levels = hardcore players? No mate, rank/total time played doesn't determine skills. What determine skills are how you perform in free-roam/deathmatch/missions and how you do heists in SP.
Firstly, I'm not your mate.
If it wasn't clearly obvious from anything I said, higher levels have more experience and knowledge. They have had more time to hone their skills than lower levels. Unless somebody is retarded or has some kind of natural skill cap, they will perform better over time. So it is a fair assumption that rank and time determine skills. Rank and time go hand in hand.
Time spent in a game does determine skill, because skill can only increase with time and experience.
Musicians don't pick up and instrument and instantly know how to play it. Unless somebody has a valid medical condition or simply lacks basic intelligence, it is impossible for someone to not get better at something after doing it multiple times.
Day 1 player is not the same as level 200+. I am both, but not everybody else is.
I don't need to consider my own skills, because I know that I am very good. That isn't me being headstrong. I know from lots of experience that I can handle any situation I am put into. Dealing with other players and hostile NPCs is now second nature.
Free roam is hardly any real skill show. Any fa**ot with half a brain can reverse in a supercar and throw a sticky bomb. Auto aim lobbies are invalid examples. The person with better ping and a stronger weapon will kill first, unless the defendant can quickly score a headshot.
Free roam does show initiative and ideas. That is a proper skill, using your brain and thinking.
Nobody expects me to jump into the subway while on a bike during a chase, resulting them in crashing their badly customized car. No one thinks I will hide in a shop while off the radar or drive past them while hidden.
Deathmatches are broken and so easy to exploit. Anyone can camp round a corner and kill somebody while their back is turned. I gave up on deathmatches because they are boring and they are just as broken and awkward to play as Gears of War matchmaking. Death matches are almost always unbalanced.
Missions show your capability to handle multiple enemies. But thanks to Rockstar and their stupid decision (hence this thread) the skill of completing a mission as fast as possible is a dead concept. People who slack and do nothing for 10 minutes get paid more.
Finally, LOL. Single Player heists hold your hand and are not hard to complete in the slightest. Any person can complete can do SP Heists.
The heists, like pretty much every other mission, ask you to complete an objective which must be completed else you fail and must restart from the last checkpoint. Plus you can spam the special abilities all day, which completely ruined it for me.
Single player activities are irrelevant because this is Online. None of that counts for anything here,
 
So much for generalizing, not everyone from day-1 is a skilled player. It's like saying everyone who doesn't start from day-1 means they're skill-less.
Ok, fair enough, you have a point. I generalised because it makes sense, but there are obviously exceptions to that.
I'm not going to rewrite what I have already said.
I don't know what you think a hardcore player, but they are the ones screwed by this update. Regular players who play to win. Not necessarily hardcore, but more than the average joe.

Anyway...

Shorter time should equal more pay, but it does not. That's the only way a time variable makes sense, else the payouts should be fixed.
I agree with what you (Kampret) said about grinding being better than waiting around. I don't play missions to waste time. I want money and I want it now, not in 15 minutes after being so bored I'm about to slip into a coma. I spent way too long today waiting for idiots who decide to AFC by the yellow circle for no reason. And I can't see that stopping any time soon.

I dont understand why people are arguing with Honeybadger. Don't people realize that Honeybadger don't give a s*** geez.

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#495

Posted 30 August 2014 - 07:25 AM

I just want to know what happened to the RP. Has anyone figured that out yet?

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#496

Posted 30 August 2014 - 07:52 AM

Anyone can figure out how to make playing missions better except for Rockstar.  Here are some things I thought of just now:

 

Higher level missions should pay more because they're harder to unlock.  That's pretty self explanatory.

 

Missions that take longer to complete should pay more.  Instead of the current system (missions paying the max amount after 15 minutes, I think) each mission should have a sort of 'time limit'.  Lets use Rooftop Rumble as an example.  If you finish it under 5 minutes you get a money boost of 20%.  Under 4 minutes and you get 30%, etc.  Any time over 5 minutes and you get the base payout.  That would encourage players to work together efficiently instead of goofing off for 10 minutes.

 

As you rank up the lower rank missions should pay more.  Instead of it being like the pre-1.16 days where everyone played Rooftop Rumble almost exclusively, players would play the missions they enjoy more because they pay more.  Think about it like getting a raise.  The lower rank missions would still pay less than the higher rank missions, but they wouldn't be dead content.  Lets use these numbers as an example.  The rank 5 mission pays $2000 when you unlock it.  Its not too bad for a low rank.  You get to rank 80 and the new mission you have unlocked pays $20,000.  However, you don't like that mission and would rather play the mission unlocked at rank 5, which now pays $15,000.  Its a noticeable about less than the rank 80 mission, but its what the player wants to play.

 

There, that took me 15 minutes to think of and I already think it dominates the crap Rockstar has implemented.  Would anyone here pay someone extra to goof around for twice as long as they work?  I sure wouldn't.

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#497

Posted 30 August 2014 - 08:55 AM

Level 120+ missions. Period! The game is out 1 year, unlocks end at 120 and the highest mission at 81. How in the hell does that make any sense.

 

To the "skilled" higher level players, there should be exclusive missions and content. Also took me 30 seconds to think of this. #logic/

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