Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

From console to PC - Frame-rates rant

108 replies to this topic
R.F.
  • R.F.

    I <3 R*

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Apr 2006

#1

Posted 19 August 2014 - 07:07 PM

I got GTAV day one for my ps3. I bought the console a month before GTAV just so I can play it when it came out. In the meantime I finished RDR and I've got to say...

I'm a pc gamer with a powerful system, my standard till I got the console was 60 fps LOCKED in 1080p. When I first started to play RDR I genuinely thought my console was broken,

no way the game run in such horrible fps. I google'd the issue and found out that high end ps3 games run in about 24 fps maybe sometimes 30, or heck, sometimes below 20 (I got this a lot in The Last Of Us).

When I got GTAV I was extremely disappointed with the frame rate performance. If you take a look at this video

you can see the ps3 version barely gets 26 fps.

My point is I literally cannot wait to play the game as it should be played at 60 fps in 1080p. I find it unacceptable in 2013 to get the biggest game ever made with such a major flaw. And the reviews for the 

console versions are 9.5-10. How can you rate a game that runs in 20 fps with a 10 score?

I haven't played GTAV in over a month, and the online mode for about 3 months, it just hurts my brain thinking of driving a car downtown, daylight in 18 fps.

Is it just me or this frame rate issue is a huge turn-off?

  • .Michael De Santa., arrout, Chuck Finley and 2 others like this

r34ld34l
  • r34ld34l

    PC Gamer

  • Members
  • Joined: 08 Apr 2012
  • Slovenia

#2

Posted 19 August 2014 - 07:27 PM Edited by r34ld34l, 19 August 2014 - 07:28 PM.

Well hardware is 8 years old or is it even 9?

  • Choteron likes this

Nick930930
  • Nick930930

    the Godfather

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 Jul 2014
  • United-States

#3

Posted 19 August 2014 - 07:31 PM

 

My point is I literally cannot wait to play the game as it should be played at 60 fps in 1080p. I find it unacceptable in 2013 to get the biggest game ever made with such a major flaw. And the reviews for the 

console versions are 9.5-10. How can you rate a game that runs in 20 fps with a 10 score?

I haven't played GTAV in over a month, and the online mode for about 3 months, it just hurts my brain thinking of driving a car downtown, daylight in 18 fps.

Is it just me or this frame rate issue is a huge turn-off?

 

Most people in the world don't get butt hurt over framerates and graphics. Most people just get over it and enjoy the game anyway. I'm playing it currently on PS3 and am still having a blast. 

 

I play PC games with 60fps and 1080p too and of course it's better. 

 

But game's are still playable at 30fps. Even BF3 on the PS3 was playable and I did really well. 

  • PreciousWall likes this

CitySlikah
  • CitySlikah

    Rat

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Aug 2013

#4

Posted 19 August 2014 - 07:54 PM

I got GTAV day one for my ps3. I bought the console a month before GTAV just so I can play it when it came out. In the meantime I finished RDR and I've got to say...

I'm a pc gamer with a powerful system, my standard till I got the console was 60 fps LOCKED in 1080p. When I first started to play RDR I genuinely thought my console was broken,

no way the game run in such horrible fps. I google'd the issue and found out that high end ps3 games run in about 24 fps maybe sometimes 30, or heck, sometimes below 20 (I got this a lot in The Last Of Us).

When I got GTAV I was extremely disappointed with the frame rate performance. If you take a look at this video

you can see the ps3 version barely gets 26 fps.

My point is I literally cannot wait to play the game as it should be played at 60 fps in 1080p. I find it unacceptable in 2013 to get the biggest game ever made with such a major flaw. And the reviews for the 

console versions are 9.5-10. How can you rate a game that runs in 20 fps with a 10 score?

I haven't played GTAV in over a month, and the online mode for about 3 months, it just hurts my brain thinking of driving a car downtown, daylight in 18 fps.

Is it just me or this frame rate issue is a huge turn-off?

I cant notice. Only because I never play anything at 60fps lol

 

Its just cause your used to it. I have a really sh*tty old TV and I couldnt even read the text on GTAV. and I went to my bros house and played GTAV on his 120hz 1080p HDTV, and I thought it looked amazing


oCrapaCreeper
  • oCrapaCreeper

    Thug

  • Members
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2013

#5

Posted 19 August 2014 - 08:08 PM Edited by oCrapaCreeper, 19 August 2014 - 08:15 PM.

Pretty much anyone who's played a lot of gta games are used to playing it at 30 FPS and below. 3D era games were capped at 30, and on PC most players in the 3D era still had the frame limiter on because the games became batsh*t buggy when you turned it off as certain things were only programmed to accommodate 30 fps, like physics. So most fans are used to it by now. I'm used to 120 FPS but I can stand 30, though I clearly notice the difference. The game is still playable.

 

On 9 year old hardware it was without a doubt impossible for Rockstar to deliver what they did at release running at 60 FPS. V was pretty much designed to be a next-gen game downgraded to run on older hardware.

  • B Dawg and Choteron like this

PinheiroHazard
  • PinheiroHazard

    u wot m8?

  • Members
  • Joined: 31 Jan 2014
  • Brazil

#6

Posted 19 August 2014 - 08:54 PM Edited by PinheiroHazard, 19 August 2014 - 08:55 PM.

I got GTAV day one for my ps3. I bought the console a month before GTAV just so I can play it when it came out. In the meantime I finished RDR and I've got to say...

I'm a pc gamer with a powerful system, my standard till I got the console was 60 fps LOCKED in 1080p. When I first started to play RDR I genuinely thought my console was broken,

no way the game run in such horrible fps. I google'd the issue and found out that high end ps3 games run in about 24 fps maybe sometimes 30, or heck, sometimes below 20 (I got this a lot in The Last Of Us).

When I got GTAV I was extremely disappointed with the frame rate performance. If you take a look at this video

you can see the ps3 version barely gets 26 fps.

My point is I literally cannot wait to play the game as it should be played at 60 fps in 1080p. I find it unacceptable in 2013 to get the biggest game ever made with such a major flaw. And the reviews for the 

console versions are 9.5-10. How can you rate a game that runs in 20 fps with a 10 score?

I haven't played GTAV in over a month, and the online mode for about 3 months, it just hurts my brain thinking of driving a car downtown, daylight in 18 fps.

Is it just me or this frame rate issue is a huge turn-off?

I played GTA 5 on PS3, some three months before selling my console, and I was really annoyed when, simply blow up a car, the FPS dropped to 20 in most cases. And it just made ​​me think: "That game was not meant to be here", what I mean by that is, a game of beauty and magnitude of GTA 5, did not deserve to be stuck in a generation of 8 years ago, and he deserved to go to the PC and Next-Gen (and the release of GTA 5 and next-gen had been so close, so why not?). And it happened!

 

The proof of what I said, is the video you showed and the GTA 5 Trailer for Next-gen. When I look at the falls of frames that the game suffered in last-gen, and then I look at the trailer next-gen, I said: "Now the game is where he deserves".

I want to clarify one thing, I'm not saying that the game is not deserved on the PS3 and Xbox 360, I'm saying he did not deserve to stay in them only. And also everyone has to admit, is that Rockstar did a miracle taking GTA5 the way it is, and playable for the last gen consoles.

  • sharpie_eastern, arrout, Mega and 2 others like this

Murray Bunyan
  • Murray Bunyan

    Trick

  • Members
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2013

#7

Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:00 PM

Anything below than 30FPS makes the controls less responsive for me as a result of increased input latency. On top of that, anything less than 30FPS looks choppy. Obviously a single frame drop won't affect your experience, but say, two frames, that's where you start to see it judder.

 

Having said that, I think it's impressive how these consoles are able to play the game at all, how they managed to hold pretty decent frame-rates. Rockstar are wizards!

  • Choteron likes this

..GhosT
  • ..GhosT

    GTAForums Veteran

  • Members
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2009
  • None

#8

Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:03 PM

Ive noticed that they are running on low FPS, but that low?

Wow.

 

Ive never really played V, i know how it works how it plays etc but i never kinda explored it, since the horrible performance just ruined the whole thing for me.

Cant wait for the PC version... :D


utack
  • utack

    Trick

  • Members
  • Joined: 15 Jun 2014
  • None

#9

Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:03 PM


I haven't played GTAV in over a month, and the online mode for about 3 months, it just hurts my brain thinking of driving a car downtown, daylight in 18 fps.

Is it just me or this frame rate issue is a huge turn-off?

I have my neighbours PS3 sitting on my desk for a good three weeks now and never managed to play for more than about 15min. Maybe 2h total. So yes, it is unplayable for me.

  • Choteron likes this

Phorkz
  • Phorkz

    Punk-ass Bitch

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Jun 2014
  • Australia

#10

Posted 19 August 2014 - 10:28 PM Edited by Phorkz, 19 August 2014 - 10:29 PM.

1080p is old school as sh*t, its funny reading that you guys praise it haha


Ash_735
  • Ash_735

    1 627 826 3789

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 15 Nov 2005
  • None
  • Most Knowledgeable [GTA] 2013
    Best Map 2013 "ViceCityStories PC Edition"

#11

Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:16 PM

Another PC jerk off thread with no real reason than to bash consoles, yep, PC Gaming thread all right. You poor souls, I guess you'll never play older games that run at even lower framerates then, jeez, you guys must have died during the N65/PS1 days when 15fps was considered good.
  • PreciousWall, lol232, ClaudeSpeed1911 and 3 others like this

Njale
  • Njale

    Thug

  • Members
  • Joined: 29 Oct 2011

#12

Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:22 PM

Another PC jerk off thread with no real reason than to bash consoles, yep, PC Gaming thread all right. You poor souls, I guess you'll never play older games that run at even lower framerates then, jeez, you guys must have died during the N65/PS1 days when 15fps was considered good.

 

Ash my friend you need a car from 1930's that does 40km/h max. you seem to enjoy old underdeveloped things. 

  • DaRkL3AD3R likes this

Iash91
  • Iash91

    Square Civilian

  • Members
  • Joined: 18 Aug 2014
  • Australia

#13

Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:23 PM

I've only ever PC gamed. The only time I played consoles was for beyond two souls, heavy rain, red dead redemption and GTA V. I started playing it about a week ago, and my biggest obstacle was the graphics and resolution! Stupidly enough, I kept crashing into everything because when driving a fast race, I couldn't notice signs or slim things till they were right in my face.

 

I never thought this would be an issue. But I've never had a problem with consoles FPS', purely because it works. I didn't even realise the game got that low of FPS, so kudos for making it playable and unnoticeable.

 

I also have a hard time playing with a controller lol. Shooting is just so heinous. I'm a pro at max payne 3 online (on pc), but when I tried it on a ps3 at my friends house, I was so horrible.


Xerukal
  • Xerukal

    Kind ol' Trev

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Sep 2013
  • None

#14

Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:25 PM Edited by Xerukal, 19 August 2014 - 11:26 PM.

I'm actually someone who's used to playing games at insanely uneven framerates (PC only gamer, using my 360 on very rare occasions). Usually spiking from 29-45 in modern games, depending on the optimization. I gotta say though, GTA V on 360 runs like absolute sh*t. 

 

I too had thought something was wrong with my console. RDR's FPS was fine, at least seemingly so. It kept 30 quite frequently. But I swear GTA V runs at a constant of like 23. I only hit 30 when I'm indoors, and even then it's mostly 25. 

 

It was really painful, and the input lag that came with the whole thing did not help things at all. 

 

Also.


Another PC jerk off thread with no real reason than to bash consoles, yep, PC Gaming thread all right. You poor souls, I guess you'll never play older games that run at even lower framerates then, jeez, you guys must have died during the N65/PS1 days when 15fps was considered good.

We aren't in the N65/PS1 days. 

  • .Michael De Santa., arrout, DaRkL3AD3R and 6 others like this

utack
  • utack

    Trick

  • Members
  • Joined: 15 Jun 2014
  • None

#15

Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:43 PM

Another PC jerk off thread with no real reason than to bash consoles, yep, PC Gaming thread all right. You poor souls, I guess you'll never play older games that run at even lower framerates then, jeez, you guys must have died during the N65/PS1 days when 15fps was considered good.

the original Gameboy ran all games on 60 frames per second :lol:

  • Choteron likes this

Nick930930
  • Nick930930

    the Godfather

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 Jul 2014
  • United-States

#16

Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:50 PM

Ive noticed that they are running on low FPS, but that low?

Wow.

 

Ive never really played V, i know how it works how it plays etc but i never kinda explored it, since the horrible performance just ruined the whole thing for me.

Cant wait for the PC version... :D

 

 

 

Ugh.. most 3rd person games run at low framerates. It's not nearly as noticable as it would be in a 1st person shooter game. It doesn't affect input nearly as much, especially with auto-lock mechanics built into most 3rd person games. 

  • Kampret likes this

Ash_735
  • Ash_735

    1 627 826 3789

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 15 Nov 2005
  • None
  • Most Knowledgeable [GTA] 2013
    Best Map 2013 "ViceCityStories PC Edition"

#17

Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:57 PM

Ash my friend you need a car from 1930's that does 40km/h max. you seem to enjoy old underdeveloped things.


If I drove a car from 1930, I'd appreciate that's what cars could do in 1930. Where as if a PC Gamer drove a car from 1930, they'd bitch about how it lacks all modern things, where's the suspension, OMG, this design is sooo old, OMG I CAN'T DRIVE THIS, Too outdated, I think I'm going blind by how horrible this is.

I'm a gamer, end of, I played games through the 90s, through the PAL Slowdown era (25fps) and through to modern times on both PC and consoles, I can appreciate a game running on the tech it's designed for without feeling the need to bitch about it not being 60fps or else /wrists like a lot of PC only gamers seem to shout.
  • _Douglas_ and whats_a_username? like this

R.F.
  • R.F.

    I <3 R*

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Apr 2006

#18

Posted 20 August 2014 - 12:24 AM

 

Ash my friend you need a car from 1930's that does 40km/h max. you seem to enjoy old underdeveloped things.


If I drove a car from 1930, I'd appreciate that's what cars could do in 1930. Where as if a PC Gamer drove a car from 1930, they'd bitch about how it lacks all modern things, where's the suspension, OMG, this design is sooo old, OMG I CAN'T DRIVE THIS, Too outdated, I think I'm going blind by how horrible this is.

I'm a gamer, end of, I played games through the 90s, through the PAL Slowdown era (25fps) and through to modern times on both PC and consoles, I can appreciate a game running on the tech it's designed for without feeling the need to bitch about it not being 60fps or else /wrists like a lot of PC only gamers seem to shout.

 

What's with the attitude man? It's just my point of view (literally). I'm not bitching about anything, It really hurts my brain when I play games running at 20 fps after playing 2 hours straight of BF4 in 60 fps.

I find it sad how people eat this s*it up with a spoon and go out of their way to defend a broken game. Let's just admit the facts. I get that you played games in lower fps back then, me too I played games all my life but times have changed.


Xerukal
  • Xerukal

    Kind ol' Trev

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Sep 2013
  • None

#19

Posted 20 August 2014 - 12:27 AM Edited by Xerukal, 20 August 2014 - 12:51 AM.

 

Ash my friend you need a car from 1930's that does 40km/h max. you seem to enjoy old underdeveloped things.


If I drove a car from 1930, I'd appreciate that's what cars could do in 1930. Where as if a PC Gamer drove a car from 1930, they'd bitch about how it lacks all modern things, where's the suspension, OMG, this design is sooo old, OMG I CAN'T DRIVE THIS, Too outdated, I think I'm going blind by how horrible this is.

A spoiled PC gamer, maybe.

 

If a PC gamer (a "normal" one with reasonable expectations), specifically myself, drove a car from 1930, I'd say that it is an admirable piece of work for its time, and that it should be treasured and respected for its accomplishments, given the time period it was invented in. However, it cannot substitute a decent, modern car with more capabilities and advancements.

 

It's a good car for its time, but "its time" is over with. We have moved on. That doesn't mean we can't enjoy it, we most certainly can. But comparing it to modern day cars and going "BACK IN MY DAY, WE WERE ALL THANKFUL FOR THIS BABY RIGHT HERE, NOW LOOK AT YOU WHIPPERSNAPPERS WITH YER MODERN MACHINES" is just laughable. 

 

can handle low FPS and I can handle sh*tty graphics when there's a sensible reason for it. Like playing a retro/classic game. GTA V is not that type of game. It is a huge, ambitious production that CHOSE to limit itself to the last generation of systems for one reason only; to reach more people and make more money.

 

And that's fine, because it's coming out on PC & NG anyway, so its true potential will be unleashed regardless. Everyone is happy. Let us move on.

  • Choteron likes this

S1LV3R_W0LF
  • S1LV3R_W0LF

    PC Gamer at heart

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2004
  • Portugal

#20

Posted 20 August 2014 - 12:58 AM

Well I'm used to low/ mid/ high framerates ... it all depends on my hardware and if it was bought recently or it's old by comparison. When i buy new things and are according to the era, the games run smooth and fast, the older the hardware gets the lower they are. Currently I'm in the phase of med/ low frames, I can run games around 45fps with decent settings in 1080p (2x AA or FXAA or whatever filter, the same for the rest of things, textures, shaders in medium/ high) but they can go to 25fps easily in case of games like WD, which I had to discard.

The experience isn't enjoyable at a certain point and the higher the fps's the better the experience, although it's not completely unplayable and sometimes I play with worst fp's because I want to keep the game pretty enough, but that is my choice. So without making an upgrade I'm like the LG consoles (well not exactly but it's similar) the hardware is getting outdated and needs to be replaced, but since consoles can't replace their current hardware, games need to adapt to that hardware, so if they want to keep the visuals pretty they have to sacrifice the performance.

 

But unless the game actually freezes for a second (NFS Rivals shty port that even froze in High End machines), the games are playable.

  • Choteron likes this

mahanddeem
  • mahanddeem

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Aug 2005

#21

Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:49 AM Edited by mahanddeem, 20 August 2014 - 06:50 AM.

3 days after release I purchased a ps3 bundled with gta5. The day after that my order was on its way back to amazon
A pc gamer can't bear a 23fps sh*t.
Plus I didn't want to spoil the game as I had had the feeling it would come to pc and next gen
Too bad I did around 30 story line missions. Did I play much that day?

Carbodyte
  • Carbodyte

    Rat

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 19 Aug 2014
  • England

#22

Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:55 AM Edited by Carbodyte, 20 August 2014 - 06:55 AM.

Why do you think most of us waited for gta v pc?

Most pcgamers spend tons of money on new hardware, do you think we wouldn't afford 100$ on a second hand console? No, we just knew the disadvantages, mostly your fault, considering it's being talked over and over again about the weakened hardware of a pc console compared to a pc.

There are going to be games locked to 30 fps even on the new generation of consoles, most console users can't spot the difference between 30 vs 60 fps, remember, ignorance is bliss ;)

  • MKIIIX and utack like this

Performer
  • Performer

    I'M RICH, BIATCH!

  • Members
  • Joined: 15 May 2010
  • Germany

#23

Posted 20 August 2014 - 09:51 AM Edited by Performer, 20 August 2014 - 09:52 AM.

This console vs. PC stuff sucks.

 

f*ck YOU ALL who think one system is superior. It's your OWN choice. I like modding and mouse/keyboard instead of a controller. That's why I am a PC gamer. 

If you like siting in the living room, is satisfied with 720p, play on your couch and don't wanna think of hardware.: Go for the console. To be more specific: Look for the one console that fits your needs.
If you like graphics to the max, modding and 60 FPS: Go for the PC.

 

If you expect 9 year old consoles to run GTA V at 1080p and 60 FPS you are really stupid and get yourself sterilized. Rockstar made a miracle by making the game look that good, have that draw distance max and still archieving 25 FPS or higher by this really really outdated hardware.

 

It's all prefence. Stop bitching each other for this nonsense. XBOX and PS have almost the same hardware and both are equally good. There are infact so equal that most people just looking for the better exclusive titles.

  • ClaudeSpeed1911 and Kaito Katsumi like this

Murray Bunyan
  • Murray Bunyan

    Trick

  • Members
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2013

#24

Posted 20 August 2014 - 10:25 AM

Another PC jerk off thread with no real reason than to bash consoles, yep, PC Gaming thread all right. You poor souls, I guess you'll never play older games that run at even lower framerates then, jeez, you guys must have died during the N65/PS1 days when 15fps was considered good.

I don't remember a single 5th gen game running at 15FPS. The game with the lowest frame-rate was probably Ocarina of time which ran at 20FPS (the GC port ran at 30FPS).
Actually, there are more 60FPS PS1 games (even excluding those with an unlocked frame-rate) than all of the games of this generation combined from all consoles.

RyanBurnsRed
  • RyanBurnsRed

    Since 1776

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2010
  • United-States

#25

Posted 20 August 2014 - 10:43 AM

To be honest I think RDR is quite smooth on the PS3. I don't know what the average FPS is, but I think it's smooth and it looks fairly well.

In comparison, GTA V is filled with horribly low anisotropic filtering, no AA, and textures so low res they border that of a high end PS2 game. The framerate drops when going too fast in either a car or jet, when there's a lot of explosions and other things. A few times in Online the textures completely disappeared! 

 

Anyway I'm not exactly sure what the point of this thread is. But answering your question, "Is it just me or this frame rate issue is a huge turn-off?" I'd say yeah it is. Any game below 30-25 fps will give me a headache.


Lightning109853
  • Lightning109853

    Air Thrusting Master

  • New Members
  • Joined: 20 Aug 2014
  • United-States

#26

Posted 20 August 2014 - 01:09 PM

Hmmm.... Did you get the case and INSTALL the game instead of using the disc? Let it install on Disc 1: Install, when thats done, put in Disc 2: Play. It usually runs slower if it is reading data off of the disc. Install the game so the files are right there so they load very quickly. Trust me, I had the same issue and this worked for me.


WalterS_LV
  • WalterS_LV

    One ticket to LS please

  • Members
  • Joined: 12 May 2013
  • Latvia

#27

Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:53 PM

Yeah I hate it too, but that`s all we got for now. I can`t wait for the day they put pre-orders on Steam. Day 1 Digital Deluxe pre-order for me. 60FPS 1080p is 100% better than 25 FPS 720p. Anyone who says otherwise needs to get their eyes checked. Though the only problem with PC would be that Online will be FULL and I mean overcrowded with modders and cheaters. 


The Algerian
  • The Algerian

    Prankster

  • Members
  • Joined: 18 Dec 2012

#28

Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:03 PM

Red dead Redemption runs pretty fine on my PS3, most of the time. Though it requently drops when too much activity in towns.

 

GTA V on the other hand, man that framerate drop gets very noticeable everytime you're driving a bit fast.


Aleph-Zero
  • Aleph-Zero

    ...

  • Members
  • Joined: 11 Jan 2014
  • None

#29

Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:25 PM Edited by Aleph-Zero, 20 August 2014 - 07:26 PM.

Another PC jerk off thread with no real reason than to bash consoles, yep, PC Gaming thread all right. You poor souls, I guess you'll never play older games that run at even lower framerates then, jeez, you guys must have died during the N65/PS1 days when 15fps was considered good.

 

You mean Nintendo 64 or Nokia 65? If you mean nintendo 64 then you should know that potato could run a very good range of its library at 60fps a standard that have seem to be dropped these days in favor of eye candy because you can't market FPS to a bunch of kids.

 

As soon as i started playing GTA V on PS3 i realized that couldn't be the definitive game. The state in which the game ran was a complete joke and clearly they had to release a definitive version.

  • Xerukal likes this

DaRkL3AD3R
  • DaRkL3AD3R

    Ghetto Star

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 May 2013

#30

Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:33 PM

Heh. I'm pretty f*cking sure it's 2014. Let me check my calendar. Yep it's 2014. 60 fps isn't even premium today, 144hz is. 60 fps should be bare minimum for gaming today. Funny how we went backwards in this regard over time.

  • agent17, Bodge, MKIIIX and 1 other like this




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users