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Cops kill another black teenager

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tokyocean
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#691

Posted 21 August 2014 - 07:51 AM

I have a problem with the title of this thread. Why "Cops kill another black teenager" and not "Cop kills another black teenager"? Let's not lump all cops into a category. This is a problem that one police department and one cop have to deal with. To act as though all cops had something to do with it is unfair. In the scenario in which one black person kills a white person, I certainly don't think it's fair to say, "Black people kill another white person."

 

Anyway, to put myself more at ease, I'm going to say that I hope the truth comes out. If it doesn't come out, I'd still be at peace. I'd rather never know the truth than to believe in a speculation or a lie. I'd rather never know if Beyonce and Jay Z's marriage is crumbling down than to assume what may be a false speculation.

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gtamann123
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#692

Posted 21 August 2014 - 08:45 AM

LMFAO

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#693

Posted 21 August 2014 - 12:10 PM

Although I agree with the comment that no one should die that way, Brown had it coming. I mean, he was a criminal, there are proofs, why do people keep saying that the officer killed him because he was black?
C'mon, people like Brown tend to die young, not really a surprise to me.
Btw, anyone in this forum lives in Ferguson?


When i was broke and new to the city, i moved to north city in st.louis 2 years ago off kingshighway and maffit in the heart of the ghetto. Once i got my job promotion, i hauled ass out that dump and moved to west county in the Richmond Heights and Brentwood area. I still work my Supervisor / Manager position in North City, which happens to be a stone's throw from the powell shooting and about a 5-10 mile straight shot to ferg.

Honestly, if you don't watch the news, you couldn't tell it was going on. I didn't find out everything until last monday when i was in a dealership office doing paperwork and the t.v was showing footage of the riots.

RoadRunner71
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#694

Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:20 PM

They've captured the killing of another guy by St. Louis cops the other day. I am not too sure about background of this, apparently the store owner called cops as he suspected that this man had stolen some drinks. The guy approaches cops and they simply mow him down.

 


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#695

Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:22 PM

I support Darren Wilson, what about you?

 

 

I even donated

 

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#696

Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:48 PM

So does the KKK.


Melchior
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#697

Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:55 PM Edited by Melchior, 21 August 2014 - 02:55 PM.

 

but that doesn't take away from the fact that the American police is very aggressive compared to other Western nations. This is an incident and the discussion should focus more on the general trend, IMO.

 

American society in general seems way more violent/aggressive than other western countries. I don't think it's just the police that act that way. I think that's probably part of the reason cops are seemingly so aggressive and hostile over there, and take non-compliance or dissent way more seriously and react so aggressively to it. Because they're far more likely to be killed or shot than police in other western nations. Large proportions of the population are gun owners, and crime, especially violent crime is more prevalent. So if some guy is refusing to fully comply when you pull him over or approach him, then you're much more likely going to be expecting the worst case scenario.

 

The police are in much more danger in the US and their jobs are way harder, and so the officers are naturally going to be more cautious and alert, and take potential threats way more seriously. They have to excercise their authority more and be stricter and firmer, because it insures their safety. The police were looking like soldiers walking the streets of Baghdad during these protests. They wouldn't be doing that in any other western country, but no other western country's police force would have to face the threats, perceived or real, that those officers were/are facing during the protests.

 

So it's the community that needs to get their act together, not the police? Police brutality is just a natural consequence of an unruly populace, and not a reflection on police culture at all? 

 

Honestly how many headlines to the tune of "Cop punches pregnant woman in the face, on paid leave" do you have to see before you admit there's a problem and stop going out of your way to defend what are essentially legal gangs.

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#698

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:38 PM

So it's the community that needs to get their act together, not the police? Police brutality is just a natural consequence of an unruly populace, and not a reflection on police culture at all? 

 

Way to completely misrepresent my argument. 

 

All I said was that police in America face unique circumstances and challenges, and so it's not fair to compare them to other Western countries like for like with regard to their "attitude" or how much (legal) force they use. Basically all I said was US society is generally more violent so it should naturally follow that their police are also more aggressive. Aggressive meaning firmer and using more authoritative policing techniques, and being less accepting of dissent.  


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#699

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:44 PM Edited by ShootPeopleNotDope, 21 August 2014 - 03:45 PM.

 

So it's the community that needs to get their act together, not the police? Police brutality is just a natural consequence of an unruly populace, and not a reflection on police culture at all? 

 

Way to completely misrepresent my argument. 

 

All I said was that police in America face unique circumstances and challenges, and so it's not fair to compare them to other Western countries like for like with regard to their "attitude" or how much (legal) force they use. Basically all I said was US society is generally more violent so it should naturally follow that their police are also more aggressive. Aggressive meaning firmer and using more authoritative policing techniques, and being less accepting of dissent.  

 

 

"Defenders of the warrior cop in situations like the one in Ferguson, Missouri argue that all of these trappings of military occupation are necessary because of the oh-so-dangerous environment the police supposedly face.

Policing is not the country’s safest job, to be sure. But as the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries shows, it’s far from the most dangerous.

The 2012 data reports that for “police and sheriff’s patrol officers,” the Fatal Injury Rate — that is, the “number of fatal occupational injuries per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers” — was 15.0.

That includes all causes of death — of the 105 dead officers recorded in the 2012 data, only 51 died due to “violence and other injuries by persons or animals.” Nearly as many, 48, died in “transportation incidents,” i.e., crashing their cars.

Here are some occupations with higher fatality rates than being a cop:

  • Logging workers: 129.9
  • Fishers and related fishing workers: 120.8
  • Aircraft pilots and flight engineers: 54.3
  • Roofers: 42.2
  • Structural iron and steel workers: 37.0
  • Refuse and recyclable material collectors: 32.3
  • Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers: 24.3
  • Electrical power-line installers and repairers: 23.9
  • Farmers, ranchers and other agricultural managers: 22.8
  • Construction laborers: 17.8
  • Taxi drivers and chauffeurs: 16.2
  • Maintenance and repairs workers, general: 15.7

And for good measure, some more that approach the allegedly terrifying risks of being a police officer:

  • First-line supervisors of landscaping, lawn service, and groundskeeping workers: 14.7
  • Grounds maintenance workers: 14.2
  • Athletes, coaches, umpires, and related workers: 13.0

While being a cop might not be all that dangerous, being in the presence of law enforcement certainly is. In 2012, there were a minimum of 410 people killed by police, and that includes only those voluntarily reported to the FBI under the creepy category of “justifiable homicide.” Nobody keeps full and accurate statistics, and the real number is probably closer to 1000.

To put this level of violence in perspective, the total number of murders committed in 2012 by anyone in Canada — a country of 35 million people, with a murder rate that isn’t even particularly low by rich country standards — was 543.

The United States is a dangerous place, and the workplace in particular is far too dangerous for far too many. But if you want to thank someone for bravely facing down danger in order to make your way of life possible, thank your garbage collector or your taxi driver. When it comes to the cops, they’re mostly a danger to others.

Instead of issuing them heavier armor than the occupiers of Iraq and Afghanistan, we should be talking about disarming them in the name of public safety."

https://www.jacobinm...ill-they-shoot/

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Melchior
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#700

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:48 PM

 

 

I don't get why youre so upset over that Powell video. I could have swore I heard the officer tell him multiple times to show his hands and to surrender peacefully and gave him opportunity to avoid defensive action. It isn't like he just drove past and shot him through his car window.

I'm now 100% certain this was suicide by cop. I didn't notice the "shoot me now" the first time I watched the video.

 
Cops show up, and within 20 seconds, a kid that obviously just needs psychological help, is f*cking dead. How do you not get why that's upsetting? It's unsurprising, but still very much upsetting.
As far as the cop knows he could have been a schyzophrenic or could have some other violent tendancies (walking at a cop saying "shoot me now" certainly doesn't sounds very sane). He was holding a weapon as well indicating an intent to do harm. He obviously spoke English so he understood what the cop was saying. The officer was ordering him to and giving him an opportunity to surrender peacefully. Which he didnt.

I'm fairly neutral on this case and don't really give a sh*t I'm just merely stating the facts.

 

If you can't f*cking reason with someone you shouldn't be walking around with a gun and a badge. 

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esmittystud101
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#701

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:49 PM Edited by esmittystud101, 21 August 2014 - 03:53 PM.

First off, this thread is one big mess. Your always going to have people that defend criminals and the other thats for our American rights.

 

If you commit a crime in this country, expect that the worse could happen to you. Don't steal, and then make cops think your gonna do something stupid. Same if someone breaks in my house.

 

Don't bother commenting on my post. You will be ignored. I'm tired of people defending criminals.

 

 

thingtwice-500x386_1.jpg

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BurgerKingpeaceRingpie
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#702

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:50 PM

ya bro extrajudicial killings make my dick rock solid

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Kampioen
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#703

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:51 PM

First off, this thread is one big mess. Your always going to have people that defend criminals and the other thats for our American rights.

 

If you commit a crime in this country, expect that the worse could happen to you. Don't steal, and then make cops think your gonna do something stupid. Same if someone breaks in my house.

 

thingtwice-500x386_1.jpg

 

Ever heard of Sharia law? Could be just the thing for you!


Melchior
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#704

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:53 PM

First off, this thread is one big mess. Your always going to have people that defend criminals and the other thats for our American rights.

 

If you commit a crime in this country, expect that the worse could happen to you. Don't steal, and then make cops think your gonna do something stupid. Same if someone breaks in my house.

 

thingtwice-500x386_1.jpg

Now let's hear from someone who doesn't fantasise about shooting criminals. 

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Kampioen
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#705

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:53 PM Edited by CenMan, 21 August 2014 - 03:54 PM.

 

So it's the community that needs to get their act together, not the police? Police brutality is just a natural consequence of an unruly populace, and not a reflection on police culture at all? 

 

Way to completely misrepresent my argument. 

 

All I said was that police in America face unique circumstances and challenges, and so it's not fair to compare them to other Western countries like for like with regard to their "attitude" or how much (legal) force they use. Basically all I said was US society is generally more violent so it should naturally follow that their police are also more aggressive. Aggressive meaning firmer and using more authoritative policing techniques, and being less accepting of dissent.  

 

 

He didn't misrepresent your argument at all if that's what you meant. You say "US society is generally more violent so it should naturally follow that their police are also more aggressive." That pretty much boils down to exactly what he said.

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esmittystud101
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#706

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:55 PM

Don't commit a crime and you will not be shot


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#707

Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:56 PM

Except that's not backed up by stats there, stu. Violent crime is something like double in the UK than it is in the US - and although this is difficult to truly quantify due to many reasons, least of which the difference in classifications between the US and UK in terms of what they refer to as "violent crime", this ballpark figure adjusts for that.

 

The problem is more that American culture is horny for gunplay. Bigger, faster, deadlier guns, because all the 'bad guys' have 'em too, and overweight asshole cops can parade around pointing assault weapons at civilians without reprimand (seriously, even when it happened to our resident scumbag Demarest, it wasn't cool. A little funny, maybe, but not cool.)

 

Ever since the outset of the 'war on drugs' it seems America's been plagued by bogeymen. American cops don't have the toughest job in the world; they just like to believe they do.

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Melchior
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#708

Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:05 PM

When you compare the violent crime between the US and the UK neither is significantly more violent than the other, although you're 2-3x more likely to die from being assaulted in the US (because of the guns). America isn't the wild west and there's no need to shoot first and ask questions later; there's definitely no need to point assault rifles and automatic shotguns at random people and no need to communicate with the public entirely through screaming. 


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#709

Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:09 PM

C'mon now Melchoir, that's unfair. Cops in Ferguson are just demonstrating gun safety by providing examples of things you shouldn't do with a firearm.


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#710

Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:17 PM

Let's also not forget that violent hotspots in the US - Detroit, for example - extremely skew the figures to create these entirely perceived threats. IE Oliver's reference to a small town claiming they needed an APC to protect their local pumpkin festival from terrorism. It's fantasy.


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#711

Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:41 PM

Except that's not backed up by stats there, stu. Violent crime is something like double in the UK than it is in the US - and although this is difficult to truly quantify due to many reasons, least of which the difference in classifications between the US and UK in terms of what they refer to as "violent crime", this ballpark figure adjusts for that.

 

Wait, what. What ballpark figure? I'm a little confused here, first you claim violent crime is double in the UK than what it is in the US, then you quite rightly point out the figures aren't relevant since the classifications are completely different, then I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're saying that actually it is still relevant and that the UK does have more violent crime? 

 

Anyways my overall point that the US is more violent than other western countries still stands. It's hard to contrast violent crime because of the different classifications, but intentional homicide is a relatively easy thing to compare, and the U.S. rate is 5 times higher than the UK, Italy, Netherlands, Germany, New Zealand, Australia. And it's higher than countries like Egypt and Liberia. Half the population have guns, there's more poverty. It's way more violent than other Western countries.

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#712

Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:51 PM

 

Except that's not backed up by stats there, stu. Violent crime is something like double in the UK than it is in the US - and although this is difficult to truly quantify due to many reasons, least of which the difference in classifications between the US and UK in terms of what they refer to as "violent crime", this ballpark figure adjusts for that.

 

Wait, what. What ballpark figure? I'm a little confused here, first you claim violent crime is double in the UK than what it is in the US, then you quite rightly point out the figures aren't relevant since the classifications are completely different, then I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're saying that actually it is still relevant and that the UK does have more violent crime? 

 

Anyways my overall point that the US is more violent than other western countries still stands. It's hard to contrast violent crime because of the different classifications, but intentional homicide is a relatively easy thing to compare, and the U.S. rate is 5 times higher than the UK, Italy, Netherlands, Germany, New Zealand, Australia. And it's higher than countries like Egypt and Liberia. Half the population have guns, there's more poverty. It's way more violent than other Western countries.

 

 

That's not really comparable, because in the US gun crime is more prevelant, and so you end up with more attempted murders rather than murders in places where less dangerous weapons are commonly used.


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#713

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:04 PM

The US has more successful homicides, because of guns. Most homicides, however, aren't random people being shot on the streets- in most cases of homicide it is over personal issues between people with a prior relationship. To reiterate, America is not the wild west. It does have more poverty (whether you're statistically less safe, I'm unsure) but to such an extent that it justifies the police pointing automatic shotguns at random protesters screaming "I'll f*cking kill you"? Doubtful.  


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#714

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:04 PM

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough for you stu - the "ballpark figure" was that violent crime rates (including rapes, assaults, robberies) is "something like double" in the UK. This accounts for both classification differences and the absurdly high murder-by-gun rate in the USA. I wasn't saying that the numbers weren't relevant; I was saying that they are hard to ascertain.
 
And again, you have to account for cesspools like Detroit that severely throw the numbers off kilter. Cops aren't fighting against waves of violent psychopaths in the USA.
 
So I think you need to qualify what you mean by "violent" before we'll get anywhere. This notion that somehow cops have to be tougher in the US is absolute bullsh*t and it's been used to justify everything from horrible SWAT raids that burn babies in their cribs to unleashing hails of rubber bullets on protestors to the goddamned Patriot Act. Why are police wearing military issue CAMO in urban areas? Does a SWAT team in a town of 8000 people need a tank? No, of course they don't.
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#715

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:13 PM

Armed demonstrators march through South Dallas to protest police shootings.

 

I wonder if conservatives will be calling for tighter gun restrictions like they did when the Black Panthers armed themselves.


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#716

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:18 PM

Armed protestors never lead to anything good. :(

 

 

As a side note, researching contentious issues on the internet sure is fun.

5RL8rYR.png


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#717

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:55 PM

Armed protestors never lead to anything good. :(

 

 

As a side note, researching contentious issues on the internet sure is fun.

5RL8rYR.png

 

lol, they're only a day apart


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#718

Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:55 PM

They've captured the killing of another guy by St. Louis cops the other day. I am not too sure about background of this, apparently the store owner called cops as he suspected that this man had stolen some drinks. The guy approaches cops and they simply mow him down.

 

 

 

What the hell is this?? Are cops just shooting whoever they feel like now? What's the context to this?


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#719

Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:58 PM

The answer is that it fell, and that the Telegraph massaged the figures by selectively excluding certain things from their definition of "violent crimes" that are categorised as violent in the actual report, to pander to their centre-right, strong-on-law-and-order authorship.
The answer is that it fell, and that the Telegraph massaged the figures by selectively excluding certain things from their definition of "violent crimes" that are categorised as violent in the actual report, to pander to their centre-right, strong-on-law-and-order authorship.

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#720

Posted 21 August 2014 - 07:01 PM

 

They've captured the killing of another guy by St. Louis cops the other day. I am not too sure about background of this, apparently the store owner called cops as he suspected that this man had stolen some drinks. The guy approaches cops and they simply mow him down.

 

 

 

What the hell is this?? Are cops just shooting whoever they feel like now? What's the context to this?

 

 

Apperantly the guy had a knife, you can see at a certain point he's too close for comfort for the cops, and they gun him down. Completely excessive if you ask me, but apperantly that's the way it goes in America from what I read from some of the posts here. Two cops with guns drawn are terrified of one guy with a knife so they keep shooting until he is severely dead.

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